Conflicting thoughts

Veterinary Science Graduate Certificate from UofI
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Vetaspirant

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Hi friends: I am very excited about the veterinary profession and I really love to be a veterinarian. I like almost all the aspects of the profession. However, occasionally I worry about the aspect of neutering and spaying animals. Although I try to justify by telling myself that these surgeries are necessary to make the animals live a healthier, calmer life and reduce unwanted reproduction, I tend to feel guilty for taking away their sexual pleasure. Sometimes I question myself: aren't there alternative ways to make these animals sterile without removing their pleasure? I would like to overcome these feelings and focus on getting into the vet school. Has anyone of you had such feelings and how did you overcome it?
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Who is this person?????


You sound like the douches I argue with on a weekly basis about their huge dogs that were about to maul the other dog in line, or the big joulie tom cat that tried to maul ME.

it's healthier, it makes them happier pets, it reduces on a LOT of problems (watch my cat From hell, or it's me or the dog). Plus I don't think you can personify animals in this way. They don't DO IT for pleasure. It's the carnal urge to spread their seed. Have fun tryin to become a vet.
 
TigerWillow said:
Who is this person?????


You sound like the douches I argue with on a weekly basis about their huge dogs that were about to maul the other dog in line, or the big joulie tom cat that tried to maul ME.

it's healthier, it makes them happier pets, it reduces on a LOT of problems (watch my cat From hell, or it's me or the dog). Plus I don't think you can personify animals in this way. They don't DO IT for pleasure. It's the carnal urge to spread their seed. Have fun tryin to become a vet.
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TW, :troll: :D
 
This seems like a question for a therapist... not SDN.
 
Sorry if I'm feeding the troll, but haven't there been studies to prove that human and dolphins are the only animals that actually receive pleasure from carnal activities. Frankly if you happen to see dogs or cats in the act neither of the pair seem to be "enjoying" themselves much. Especially when they get stuck. Your personal enjoyment of the activity DOES NOT reflect your pets enjoyment.
 
Fireflysushi said:
Sorry if I'm feeding the troll, but haven't there been studies to prove that human and dolphins are the only animals that actually receive pleasure from carnal activities. Frankly if you happen to see dogs or cats in the act neither of the pair seem to be "enjoying" themselves much. Especially when they get stuck. Your personal enjoyment of the activity DOES NOT reflect your pets enjoyment.
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I'm sure female cats in heat really LOVE going through glass windows to get to their tomcat of their desire ........
 
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to OP.
Think big and broad. You receive a lot of education to deal with pets not only as friends, but also as resources (food, services, science, etc) and as problems. While you might get this sensation here in the US, try to think of 3rd world countries where lack of population control leads to thousands of astray animals...some creating serious problems in the society. There was a recent case in Romania about a proposed bill to shoot over 30k street dogs after a romanian women was mauled by a group of them while taking a walk. There is also the point of lack of the pleasure component in sex in many animals. They reproduce to survive. I think it's great that you are sensitive to animal lives...applying that sensitivity in broader perspectives will surely make you a great vet.
 
Rick Santorum hates sex for pleasure. That is all I need to know.
 
I personally believe that spaying and neutering is of the upmost importance but you should know that there is a spay and neuter vaccine in the works but it only lasts for three years so it's more suitable to ferals. If you are really against fixing animals you might want to consider working with animals in another profession or soley working with wildlife because you usually don't spay/neuter those animals.
 
Wildlife woman said:
I personally believe that spaying and neutering is of the upmost importance but you should know that there is a spay and neuter vaccine in the works but it only lasts for three years so it's more suitable to ferals. If you are really against fixing animals you might want to consider working with animals in another profession or soley working with wildlife because you usually don't spay/neuter those animals.
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Wait, now im curious and confused. How would that be more suitable for ferals? They aren't the most fun to catch and you don't know if it's been vaccinated or how long ago. Wouldn't it be more suitable for owners?

It's still fascinating. Is it like birth control in a vaccine?? Maybe I should get one for myself. Har de Har.
 
Wildlife woman said:
I personally believe that spaying and neutering is of the upmost importance but you should know that there is a spay and neuter vaccine in the works but it only lasts for three years so it's more suitable to ferals. If you are really against fixing animals you might want to consider working with animals in another profession or soley working with wildlife because you usually don't spay/neuter those animals.
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Why would it be more suitable for ferals? What good would it do to spay/neuter them for a few years and after that they can mate again? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of doing it? So they CAN'T have any more offspring?
 
TigerWillow said:
Wait, now im curious and confused. How would that be more suitable for ferals? They aren't the most fun to catch and you don't know if it's been vaccinated or how long ago. Wouldn't it be more suitable for owners?

It's still fascinating. Is it like birth control in a vaccine?? Maybe I should get one for myself. Har de Har.
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I guess we posted at the same time. Implanon works for three years.. ;) It's pretty convenient.
 
PetPony said:
Why would it be more suitable for ferals? What good would it do to spay/neuter them for a few years and after that they can mate again? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of doing it? So they CAN'T have any more offspring?
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Good. Glad I wasn't the only one confused.

But my magic fingers still beat you PP!!
 
OOOO that implanon looks scary. Plus I only use bc for like, skin and regulation.

Now this has become tmi. So continue on with those horny ferals
 
TigerWillow said:
OOOO that implanon looks scary. Plus I only use bc for like, skin and regulation.

Now this has become tmi. So continue on with those horny ferals
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lol That's why I got it when I was 14. People were so shocked and thought I was a *****. lol

Yes, back to horny ferals. hahaha
 
I actually spoke to vets about the vaccine in one of my interviews. Auburn is actually working on creating the vaccine and I had the same questions as you guys. Ferals life spans are significantly reduced compared to your pets. It's more cost effective because people that are less experienced than us can just get them in a trap, prick them with a vaccine and then release. There is no need for experts or anestisea. I also wondered about the whole 3 year thing and how they would track them but they are still working on everything. They also said that it's the best way to deal with the wild pig populations too. When I asked about the application towards pets they said that it would depend on that specific pet but I brought up the point that most clients are not good about bringing their animals in for boosters so there would be a lot of false trust that their pets can't get pregnant and then tada puppies/kittens. Sorry for the long explanation lol. I have thought a lot about it and read a few articles. You might want to do a little research as well because there are more reasons why it might be useful with ferals.
 
Could you direct us to a few articles you've read? I'd love to talk to the vets I'm shadowing about that to see what they think and stuff. :)
 
Yeah thanks for the info!!! I'm glad this thread has went somewhere educational.

Maybe they'll microchip everything? Who would administer the vaccine? Oh god, hopefully not me lol.

I totally agree on the whole non compliance thing. Everyone just comes in (I work at a vaccine clinic) and say I'm here for his vaccines! No, I don't know what he's gotten, can't you figure that out? Well, I guess his annuals, but I'm not sure how long it's been. Could be 2, could be 5 years.


:smuggrin: I am not clairvoyant!!!
 
TigerWillow said:
Yeah thanks for the info!!! I'm glad this thread has went somewhere educational.

Maybe they'll microchip everything? Who would administer the vaccine? Oh god, hopefully not me lol.

I totally agree on the whole non compliance thing. Everyone just comes in (I work at a vaccine clinic) and say I'm here for his vaccines! No, I don't know what he's gotten, can't you figure that out? Well, I guess his annuals, but I'm not sure how long it's been. Could be 2, could be 5 years.


:smuggrin: I am not clairvoyant!!!
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But if they microchip, then it probably won't be much cheaper than surgery? I don't know though. I don't know how much everything would cost..
 
PetPony said:
But if they microchip, then it probably won't be much cheaper than surgery? I don't know though. I don't know how much everything would cost..
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I know that the microchip we sell is 45 dollars. That's a top of the line chip though. However, we don't make much off of chips. Don't know how much it costs whole sale.

The cheaper chips you have to pay annual dues on or what not. Im not quite sure.
 
OK. I get the idea of an implanon or depo shot type thing for ferals and or humans, but WHY are we calling it a vaccine? Pregnancy is not a disease state.

Am I wrong? To me a "vaccine" prevents infection by creating an immune response. I don't think it is the proper descriptor for Depo provera or other birth control shots.
 
TigerWillow said:
I know that the microchip we sell is 45 dollars. That's a top of the line chip though. However, we don't make much off of chips. Don't know how much it costs whole sale.

The cheaper chips you have to pay annual dues on or what not. Im not quite sure.
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I always thought chips would be more expensive.. hmm. I wonder if ours have them. Gotta ask my mom. Because I'd totally chip my dogs then.
 
fromthebox said:
OK. I get the idea of an implanon or depo shot type thing for ferals and or humans, but WHY are we calling it a vaccine? Pregnancy is not a disease state.

Am I wrong? To me a "vaccine" prevents infection by creating an immune response. I don't think it is the proper descriptor for Depo provera or other birth control shots.
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I didn't mean to say that implanon is a vaccine. Just wanted to tell TW it would work for 3 years, if that's what she wanted.
 
PetPony said:
I didn't mean to say that implanon is a vaccine. Just wanted to tell TW it would work for 3 years, if that's what she wanted.
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Oh no, not calling anyone out here specifically, just generally confused - is vaccine an appropriate term? Is it the one Wildlife Woman's interviewers used? My first response would be "but you can't vaccinate for pregnancy... you can take BC or get an implant or shot but it isn't a vaccine" and I'm wondering if I'm wrong.
 
PetPony said:
I didn't mean to say that implanon is a vaccine. Just wanted to tell TW it would work for 3 years, if that's what she wanted.
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Haha I knew there wasn't a vaccine. Still a scary thought to have something in you!! Can you take it out???

Haha maybe this is a better discussion for pm s.
 
I stand corrected - from Wildlife Woman's article:
"The researchers found that a single dose of the immunocontraceptive vaccine GonaCon controls fertility over multiple years in adult female cats."

"The vaccine stimulates the production of antibodies that bind to GnRH, a hormone in an animal’s body that signals the production of sex hormones, such as estrogen, progesterone and testosterone. By binding to GnRH, the antibodies reduce the animal’s ability to stimulate the release of these sex hormones. All sexual activity is inhibited, and the animals remain in a non-reproductive state as long as a sufficient level of antibody activity is present."

DUUDE

EDIT: Dunno, that would freak me out, having antibodies to my sex hormones....
 
Wildlife woman said:
http://www.veterinarypracticenews.c...-could-help-control-feral-cat-population.aspx

http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/home/a...eive-1-million-grant#id5pVcnnKuw-KaJQN2l3dR0A

There are a lot more but I'm in class so I can't really look for them right now lol.

Just type in veterinary news and you will find a lot of sites that have info on this
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Thank you! That will do for now when I'm supposed to be studying for three tests anyways. haha


fromthebox said:
Oh no, not calling anyone out here specifically, just generally confused - is vaccine an appropriate term? Is it the one Wildlife Woman's interviewers used? My first response would be "but you can't vaccinate for pregnancy... you can take BC or get an implant or shot but it isn't a vaccine" and I'm wondering if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Maybe they talked about it like that, because it would be administered like a vaccine?

TigerWillow said:
Haha I knew there wasn't a vaccine. Still a scary thought to have something in you!! Can you take it out???

Haha maybe this is a better discussion for pm s.
Click to expand...

You can pm me, if you're really interested. haha
 
fromthebox said:
Oh no, not calling anyone out here specifically, just generally confused - is vaccine an appropriate term? Is it the one Wildlife Woman's interviewers used? My first response would be "but you can't vaccinate for pregnancy... you can take BC or get an implant or shot but it isn't a vaccine" and I'm wondering if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Hmmm I get where you are coming from. But by that logic, the rattlesnake vaccine isn't a vaccine.

Rattlesnake venom isn't a disease. The vaccine doesn't prevent it-it buys you time to find antivenom. So it prevents.... Death within a certain time frame.
 
fromthebox said:
I stand corrected - from Wildlife Woman's article:
"The researchers found that a single dose of the immunocontraceptive vaccine GonaCon controls fertility over multiple years in adult female cats."

"The vaccine stimulates the production of antibodies that bind to GnRH, a hormone in an animal's body that signals the production of sex hormones, such as estrogen, progesterone and testosterone. By binding to GnRH, the antibodies reduce the animal's ability to stimulate the release of these sex hormones. All sexual activity is inhibited, and the animals remain in a non-reproductive state as long as a sufficient level of antibody activity is present."

DUUDE

EDIT: Dunno, that would freak me out, having antibodies to my sex hormones....
Click to expand...

Well, ignore my previous post then!!

Anyways, to the OP. This is an alternative way, but it still inhibits the pleasure part it seems. Unless you wanna force them to have sex against their will.
 
TigerWillow said:
Hmmm I get where you are coming from. But by that logic, the rattlesnake vaccine isn't a vaccine.

Rattlesnake venom isn't a disease. The vaccine doesn't prevent it-it buys you time to find antivenom. So it prevents.... Death within a certain time frame.
Click to expand...
Ah, no it's more the immune system I was getting at, but I see people call that a vaccine even though it's more like a desensitization/ immunoglobulin generation thing. Vaccine must be the easiest marketable term.
 
fromthebox said:
Ah, no it's more the immune system I was getting at, but I see people call that a vaccine even though it's more like a desensitization/ immunoglobulin generation thing. Vaccine must be the easiest marketable term.
Click to expand...

Idk, I've been yelled at for using "vaccine jargon" by a customer... For saying things like vaccine, series, antibodies, immunosuppressed. My coworker got written up even. Silly people- of course we will know more than you, it's our job!!

End rant. But yes, there are also "injections" but I find that to be more of drugs and antibiotics.
 
TigerWillow said:
Well, ignore my previous post then!!

Anyways, to the OP. This is an alternative way, but it still inhibits the pleasure part it seems. Unless you wanna force them to have sex against their will.
Click to expand...

Vetaspirant clearly stated that he or she was conflicted about reduction of the pleasure they got from watching animals have sex. I think I'm reading this correctly... :nod:
 
For people interested in non-surgical sterilization, Ark Sciences has developed an injectable sterilizing agent for male dogs. They've been doing trials in other countries, recently did one in the US, and are expecting FDA approval later this year.

http://www.arksciences.com/products.html

Does anyone else think we'll reach a point where veterinarians are doing predominantly non-surgical sterilization during our lifetimes?
 
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