Career paths. Bounce off some ideas.

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bigpharmD said:
Hey arent you married too...screw the mba or further school...im gonna be a stay at home dad
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Yeah...but she likes it when I bring home a girlfriend...
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StaviZFingerZ said:
No no..that's what Mountain calls OldFart.. :smuggrin:

You packed and ready to roll??
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Dude, look under Mtn's avatar. Says "Debbie Downer," or at least, it did if it's not there now. Here, have an Aricept. :smuggrin:

Naw, still gotta go through the office and sort stuff out. I'm having a yard sale this Saturday. Hopefully that'll go well.

Back to the OP: as someone mentioned before, you'll probably end up changing your mind 10 more times before you graduate, and if not, at least tweaking your original plan somewhat. You seem apt enough to make an informed decision, though. Good luck. :)
 
Glycerin said:
Dude, look under Mtn's avatar. Says "Debbie Downer," or at least, it did if it's not there now. Here, have an Aricept. :smuggrin:

Naw, still gotta go through the office and sort stuff out. I'm having a yard sale this Saturday. Hopefully that'll go well.

Back to the OP: as someone mentioned before, you'll probably end up changing your mind 10 more times before you graduate, and if not, at least tweaking your original plan somewhat. You seem apt enough to make an informed decision, though. Good luck. :)
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Well, you missed the little head buttin between oldfart and mountain man..and in honor of oldfart, MM decided to put that debbie downer avatar...

Yardsale? anything interesting? you got any ole photography equipment or anything worthwhile that I can buy for a nickel?
 
Glycerin said:
Dude, look under Mtn's avatar. Says "Debbie Downer," or at least, it did if it's not there now. Here, have an Aricept. :smuggrin:

Naw, still gotta go through the office and sort stuff out. I'm having a yard sale this Saturday. Hopefully that'll go well.

Back to the OP: as someone mentioned before, you'll probably end up changing your mind 10 more times before you graduate, and if not, at least tweaking your original plan somewhat. You seem apt enough to make an informed decision, though. Good luck. :)
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are you going to have a long distance relationship...i bet pharmdSTUDENT could give you some advice....
 
Glycerin said:
Yard Man with self-propel.
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That's the official mower of NASCAR!! It would match my John Deere...
Darn it..but I don't need it..but I want one because my old Sears Craftsman Pushmower exploded. Can you drop it off at my house on your way ?
 
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StaviZFingerZ said:
That's part of the job.. yes. :smuggrin:

But dude...I earned that... by beating countless golf balls on the range.
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And this is the negative part of a job in management...I would potentially have to go golfing for the sake of business...good gawd. Why the hell can't business types like 3-on-3 basketball? That'd be the ****.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
And this is the negative part of a job in management...I would potentially have to go golfing for the sake of business...good gawd. Why the hell can't business types like 3-on-3 basketball? That'd be the ****.
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Oh..we've done that too...
 
...........
 
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WVUPharm2007 said:
And this is the negative part of a job in management...I would potentially have to go golfing for the sake of business...good gawd. Why the hell can't business types like 3-on-3 basketball? That'd be the ****.
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BAM will change that. :cool:
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
No, I'm gonna get a shoe contract and have my names attached to the best athletic shoe ever made...patent leathery goodness...
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reebok-pump-omni-hextride-allen-iverson-shoe.jpg

resize


Bleh.
 
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WVUPharm2007 said:
Nah....the answer 1. I had those back in junior high. Still my favorite shoe design ever.
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So you watch the NBA? What team are you going for, cause I don't think WV has a team:confused:
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
From everyone I've talked to - nobody will care where your MBA comes from in pharmacy. quote]

What accreditation bodies are important for an MBA?
Is an MBA from a Council of Higher Education / Middle States Association accredited university acceptable? Or does the actual MBA program need to be AACSB or ACBSP accredited as well?

Specifically I'm wondering what you think of the relatively new MBA (diploma mill?) from The Mayes College of Healthcare Business and Policy under the well established University of Sciences in Philadelphia. :confused:

I'll ask a few DOPs, try to contact one of their recent grads, and post their responces, but until I hear back from them I'd love to hear any one elses' thoughts on the matter.
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Had more than an hour of pow-wow with my 2 supervisors last Wednesday. While they both agree that the new hires is moving towards residency and experience (even just coming in as staff pharmacist), they disagreed on quite a few things. The one with the MBA obviously pushed for MBA route, the other with admin MS residency is biased towards that.

Like some mentioned, I might change my mind a dozen times before the end. I don't think I can go wrong with any. Mean while, I'll continue to get my name out there and gather more info. Having all the options open is never a bad thing. :p Thank you goes out to all those who has contributed.
 
xiphoid2010 said:
Had more than an hour of pow-wow with my 2 supervisors last Wednesday. While they both agree that the new hires is moving towards residency and experience (even just coming in as staff pharmacist), they disagreed on quite a few things. The one with the MBA obviously pushed for MBA route, the other with admin MS residency is biased towards that.

Like some mentioned, I might change my mind a dozen times before the end. I don't think I can go wrong with any. Mean while, I'll continue to get my name out there and gather more info. Having all the options open is never a bad thing. :p Thank you goes out to all those who has contributed.
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So you know that people are biased in terms of pharmacy careers and how to get there... that's the best news that I've heard all day! :D

Now... if you can't go wrong with whatever you chose, then you get to pick whatever you want! :)
 
PharmDstudent said:
So you know that people are biased in terms of pharmacy careers and how to get there... that's the best news that I've heard all day! :D

Now... if you can't go wrong with whatever you chose, then you get to pick whatever you want! :)
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LOL, can't go wrong doesn't equal to finding the optimum route, with the highest probability, greatest flexibility, lowest cost... Yeah, I'm kind of selfish that way, ahahaha. There is still much to figure out, young grasshopper. :D
 
xiphoid2010 said:
LOL, can't go wrong doesn't equal to finding the optimum route, with the highest probability, greatest flexibility, lowest cost... Yeah, I'm kind of selfish that way, ahahaha. There is still much to figure out, young grasshopper. :D
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Blah, blah, blah. ;)


Oh, and you had better not be calling me a "young grasshopper"... I don't take kindly to them kinds of words. :p (I don't start these kinds of threads, you see.) "Spring chicken" is ok. ;)
 
PharmDstudent said:
Blah, blah, blah. ;)


Oh, and you had better not be calling me a "young grasshopper"... I don't take kindly to them kinds of words. :p (I don't start these kinds of threads, you see.) "Spring chicken" is ok. ;)
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What?! You don't like KungFu: The movie?! :eek: <shaking my head>
 
xiphoid2010 said:
What?! You don't like KungFu: The movie?! :eek: <shaking my head>
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I've never seen it :p nor do I have plans to any time soon.

I know what that means, though, and I don't like being called a "young grasshopper" at this stage in the game. ;)

I've already looked into admin residencies (as a P1!), advanced degrees (as a P2!), going back to medical school (as a P2!), etc. So... I know where I stand.
 
PharmDstudent said:
I've never seen it :p nor do I have plans to any time soon.

I know what that means, though, and I don't like being called a "young grasshopper" at this stage in the game. ;)

I've already looked into admin residencies (as a P1!), advanced degrees (as a P2!), going back to medical school (as a P2!), etc. So... I know where I stand.
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Relative to some of the geriatric members we have here, I think it's safe to say that any student or younger practitioner is barely at the "young grass hopper" stage - we may as well be hatching larva. Gross. :smuggrin:
 
nikkai said:
Relative to some of the geriatric members we have here, I think it's safe to say that any student or younger practitioner is barely at the "young grass hopper" stage - we may as well be hatching larva. Gross. :smuggrin:
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Nope! :smuggrin: That was P1 and P2 year...

I have my OWN opinions now. ;)
 
RxRunner said:
If friends and family bring you happiness I would take the career path that allows you the most time with them.
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That reasoning is flawed...

Al bundy enjoyed "big uns" and sitting on the couch with his hand in his pants. Following the above reasoning - he should do whatever career allows him to maximize reading said magazine and sitting on couch / hand in pants. Such a pursuit is not likely to bring him wealth or true happiness...

Can we not agree that being a shoe salesman is what allowed him to really enjoy his pass times?
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
But what if you get a person (like me) that is like a danged snake oil salesmen in interviews? I can sweet talk...throw in that Appalachian accent...:laugh:
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I was in Charleston last week, and I gotta say, I'm not a fan of the accent :thumbdown:
 
xiphoid2010 said:
Yeah, I do have the background. But I think Ph.D on top of pharm.D offers too little return on an additional 3-4 years of investment, in comparison to a fellowship which takes less time and offer similar opportunities.

The other thing is, my old boss and friends still in that field is telling me that the big pharmas are having a tough time. One of the professor is actually a guy working for Pfizer. We struck it off one day and will be doing a rotation with him. But he warned that his division was 200+ strong, but now only 60 of them left, and there is a hiring freeze.

I know some company like J&J are still doing ok, but I have to wonder about the future of big pharma as a viable model of business. The era of blockbusters is gone. Anybody else here have a different feeling?

As currently, I'm leaning more towards (1) and (2). But is still open to (3) pending more info.
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A fellowship & PhD offer the same level of opportunities? I din't realize that, it's counterintuitive. I would have thought that the PharmD, PhD-Pharm Admin would offer excellent opportunities, at least based on the things I've been hearing. It seems like it fits you. You have industry experience, so just sell your soul and work your way up the corporate ladder.

Is that your dog by the way.....adorable! I know that sounds a little, well, less than masculine, but that is a really cute dog haha.
 
ffpickle said:
A fellowship & PhD offer the same level of opportunities? I din't realize that, it's counterintuitive. I would have thought that the PharmD, PhD-Pharm Admin would offer excellent opportunities, at least based on the things I've been hearing. It seems like it fits you. You have industry experience, so just sell your soul and work your way up the corporate ladder.

Is that your dog by the way.....adorable! I know that sounds a little, well, less than masculine, but that is a really cute dog haha.
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Having gone through a PhD, the PhD opens some doors and closes others, just like a residency.

For comparison, after doing a residency, would you willingly work for Walgreens if clinical was your taste? Hell no.

Likewise for a PhD. The PhD-trained gets to be assigned to more technical management functions (machines and numbers not people) and often not assigned unless he pleads for it to supervisory positions like DoP.

A PharmD/PhD is also salaried and has different employment rights and standards in government service. A PhD in pharmacy and then going into government service opens the Title 42 scientist track for the Bands II, III, and IV track:
http://hr.od.nih.gov/employment/Title42/documents/Title42PayModel.pdf

It is possible to move to the SL/ST track, but it's very rare (most people in my position opt to go for Band IV-Tier IV since it pays better and Title 42 privileges are better). Also, there is relatively limited, or in my case, no competition for promotions and/or advancement up to and at the national level. You don't see many pharmacists (there are effectively 11 in the VA and 9 are at national) who can see to technical but nonclinical concerns.


Most everyone else who trains clinically (VA, IHS civilian, BOP, HHS) goes into the Hybrid Title 38, which pays probably $10K less on average than the Walgreens pharmacist, but the benefits are way better. In this route, you can gun for a DoP, and I'm sure that a lot of people would be glad to give it to you, because being a DoP sucks for most people. If you're really good, they may promote you to regional or national management, but for the organization I work for, there are 20 regional heads and only 7(?) national heads. Making DoP is not hard, making regional or national through the clinical route is hard and very competitive.

------------------------------------------------
As for degrees, I am ambivalent, but unless you have a real reason to get a PhD, don't worry about it. A PharmD with some graduate training is enough unless you want that love-hate relationship with research in your life.

------------------------------------------------
Based on what I read of your personality, let me propose Option #4: All About You (TM PWC Health and Life Sciences):

1. Get your MS in Finance, MBA, or JD
2. Become a pharmacy management consultant at PWC, Deloitte, Accenture, or some like-minded company.
3. Work like hell
a. Compete against your fellow associates
b. Land big clients
c. Make obscene money (my brother post-tax was in the $400s at Accenture)
4. Retire to some easy service like government when you hit 30 having hit your three 6-digit contracts.

Try looking for this at Accenture:
CARS Managed Care Senior Technical Analyst - New York City, NY-00073351

That skillset: CARS, SCP, Oracle and Data Warehousing is a standard skillset that you will need. You need to choose a b-school that can provide that sort of specialist skills in business analysis.
 
lord999 said:
Having gone through a PhD, the PhD opens some doors and closes others, just like a residency.

For comparison, after doing a residency, would you willingly work for Walgreens if clinical was your taste? Hell no.

Likewise for a PhD. The PhD-trained gets to be assigned to more technical management functions (machines and numbers not people) and often not assigned unless he pleads for it to supervisory positions like DoP.

A PharmD/PhD is also salaried and has different employment rights and standards in government service. A PhD in pharmacy and then going into government service opens the Title 42 scientist track for the Bands II, III, and IV track:
http://hr.od.nih.gov/employment/Title42/documents/Title42PayModel.pdf

It is possible to move to the SL/ST track, but it's very rare (most people in my position opt to go for Band IV-Tier IV since it pays better and Title 42 privileges are better). Also, there is relatively limited, or in my case, no competition for promotions and/or advancement up to and at the national level. You don't see many pharmacists (there are effectively 11 in the VA and 9 are at national) who can see to technical but nonclinical concerns.


Most everyone else who trains clinically (VA, IHS civilian, BOP, HHS) goes into the Hybrid Title 38, which pays probably $10K less on average than the Walgreens pharmacist, but the benefits are way better. In this route, you can gun for a DoP, and I'm sure that a lot of people would be glad to give it to you, because being a DoP sucks for most people. If you're really good, they may promote you to regional or national management, but for the organization I work for, there are 20 regional heads and only 7(?) national heads. Making DoP is not hard, making regional or national through the clinical route is hard and very competitive.

------------------------------------------------
As for degrees, I am ambivalent, but unless you have a real reason to get a PhD, don't worry about it. A PharmD with some graduate training is enough unless you want that love-hate relationship with research in your life.

------------------------------------------------
Based on what I read of your personality, let me propose Option #4: All About You (TM PWC Health and Life Sciences):

1. Get your MS in Finance, MBA, or JD
2. Become a pharmacy management consultant at PWC, Deloitte, Accenture, or some like-minded company.
3. Work like hell
a. Compete against your fellow associates
b. Land big clients
c. Make obscene money (my brother post-tax was in the $400s at Accenture)
4. Retire to some easy service like government when you hit 30 having hit your three 6-digit contracts.

Try looking for this at Accenture:
CARS Managed Care Senior Technical Analyst - New York City, NY-00073351

That skillset: CARS, SCP, Oracle and Data Warehousing is a standard skillset that you will need. You need to choose a b-school that can provide that sort of specialist skills in business analysis.
Click to expand...

Wow. Very interesting. Never saw that type of career track. Thanks for sharing!
 
vandytom said:
it is nice to see other people questioning pharmacy career. i am a P1 at a brand new school. could have gone anywhere with my scores but last minute decision landed me in this situation. was almost kicked out because of "professionalism" because i despise retail vehemently. Pissed off a pharmacist because of a few condescending remarks about retail. i have a BS in Economics from a good school. my goal for the pharmd is to end up in management or consulting. i am all about data, stats, cost, benefits, finance, and playing the game. i also took some time off and during school to learn programming skills. i am seriously questioning the pharmd and dropping out to get an MBA to get a consulting job at big firms like Deloitte or Accenture. with my GMAT, i can get in top 25. Someone please justify why i should kiss up and complete the pharmd. in my decision making process, cost/benefit analysis is crucial. return on investment has to be justified. 4 yrs and 100+k in debt is not something anyone should take lightly. i also believe in distinguishing work and play in the right settings.
serious replies are much appreciated. i have a few weeks before repeating the retail pharmacy rotation. blah.
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PharmD or an MBA? Hmmm... that's a no brainer! PharmD hands down.
In this day and age, who doesn't have an MBA???
 
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