California Northstate University College of Medicine(CNUCOM): Avoid this school at all costs!

[Med Ed]

In recent memory no medical school has ever loss accreditation, I doubt this school will either.They will just be on probation forever

Failure to progress to full accreditation will ultimately result withdrawal of current accreditation. So no, this won't go on forever.

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[Isoval]

In recent memory no medical school has ever loss accreditation, I doubt this school will either.They will just be on probation forever

In recent memory, no school has been questionably meeting the minimum requirements to even qualify as a medical school.

These guys are a sinking ship.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

In recent memory, no school has been questionably meeting the minimum requirements to even qualify as a medical school.

These guys are a sinking ship.

I wonder what will happen to the current students, if the medical school loses accreditation!

 

[eatfresh]

CNCUOM recently announced a new dean on May 1, 2023: Dr. Richard Isaacs, one of the CEOs of Kaiser Permanente! Do you guys think this a promising step for the future?

 

[NSdoc]

CNCUOM recently announced a new dean on May 1, 2023: Dr. Richard Isaacs, one of the CEOs of Kaiser Permanente! Do you guys think this a promising step for the future?

It has taken nearly a year to find someone to fill the vacancy created by the sudden departure of a dean who had been appointed just a few months earlier.

Probably because no person with an academic background wishes to end their career by boarding a sinking ship or entering a house on fire.

 

[Goro]

It has taken nearly a year to find someone to fill the vacancy created by the sudden departure of a dean who had been appointed just a few months earlier.

Probably because no person with an academic background wishes to end their career by boarding a sinking ship or entering a house on fire.

Truer words are rarely been spoken on SDN!

Get out the popcorn!

 

[Sunshine2024]

I wonder what will happen to the current students, if the medical school loses accreditation!

Attached is CNU's Teachout Policy should they lose accreditation. They are committed to teaching out and following through with its educational commitments to its students.

 

[Sunshine2024]

CNCUOM recently announced a new dean on May 1, 2023: Dr. Richard Isaacs, one of the CEOs of Kaiser Permanente! Do you guys think this a promising step for the future?

Yes, I do. See link for the announcement. He has significant achievements as a regional leader and educator and is dedicated to building the medical program. Richard S. Isaacs, MD, FACS Joins California Northstate University as the Dean of the College of Medicine

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Dr. Richard Isaacs has a great reputation so hopefully he can fix the issues but I would recommend taking DO over CNU MD. Few NorCal applicants I know didn’t bother to apply.

 

[chilly_md]

Attached is CNU's Teachout Policy should they lose accreditation. They are committed to teaching out and following through with its educational commitments to its students.

That would be of little use come match time for the MS4’s that year.

 

[NSdoc]

Yes, I do. See link for the announcement. He has significant achievements as a regional leader and educator and is dedicated to building the medical program. Richard S. Isaacs, MD, FACS Joins California Northstate University as the Dean of the College of Medicine

"Significant achievements as an educator"???
Achievements in a leadership role at a HMO do not necessarily translate into academic ability.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

"Significant achievements as an educator"???
Achievements in a leadership role at a HMO do not necessarily translate into academic ability.

May be he can convince accreditation committee?

 

[NSdoc]

May be he can convince accreditation committee?

That might be the administration's game plan. Having a PhD as the Dean of a medical school would not help to convince LCME that the institution is attempting to address its deficiencies. Remains to be seen if the smoke & mirrors strategy will work.

 

[Sunshine2024]

"Significant achievements as an educator"???
Achievements in a leadership role at a HMO do not necessarily translate into academic ability.

He has served as a clinical professor of otolaryngology at UC Davis School of Medicine, Drexel University College of Medicine, and California Northstate University College of Medicine.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

It is an interesting choice for a dean. There's definitely insight into the realities of healthcare systems and business. The gravitas to help secure clinical rotations and placements is very helpful. Provided everything checks out on the preclinical side.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

I sure hope that these people turn the ship around. Or if it sinks, that the affected students can transfer to other medical schools. It would be terrible for your own school to close down and have to reapply through no fault of your own.

 

[NSdoc]

He has served as a clinical professor of otolaryngology at UC Davis School of Medicine, Drexel University College of Medicine, and California Northstate University College of Medicine.

Professor is an academic rank earned after years of scholarly & clinical effort, while Clinical Professor is a title conferred upon community clinicians who participate in the teaching of medical students or residents during their away rotations.
As for the association between Kaiser & Drexel, it was a brief one that ended several years ago.

 

[alexjonclement]

I sure hope that these people turn the ship around. Or if it sinks, that the affected students can transfer to other medical schools. It would be terrible for your own school to close down and have to reapply through no fault of your own.

Hi, as a current student in the middle of preclinicals I can offer some insight there: in the worst case, the school is committed to teaching out. There will be no transfers to other schools or re-application. Every current class is accredited to receive an MD through the authority of the WASC. Every student here will get an MD from CNU, and that's that. The single biggest hurdle for accreditation for the LCME is the student survey, and I get good vibes from the M1 and M2 classes.

 

[eatfresh]

I'm an incoming M1 this year. Is it true that if the school loses accreditation in March 2024, I will not be eligible for the residency match after I graduate?

 

[Med Ed]

I'm an incoming M1 this year. Is it true that if the school loses accreditation in March 2024, I will not be eligible for the residency match after I graduate?

For allopathic schools in the US, LCME accreditation is necessary for students to be eligible for the USMLE exams.. It is also a requirement of medical licensure in many states.

As @alexjonclement helpfully noted above, if CNU loses accreditation you may be able to stay and get "taught out" until you earn the MD title. Unfortunately, without the ability to take the USMLE exams, the degree you obtain would be both really expensive and utterly worthless.

 

[eatfresh]

For allopathic schools in the US, LCME accreditation is necessary for students to be eligible for the USMLE exams.. It is also a requirement of medical licensure in many states.

As @alexjonclement helpfully noted above, if CNU loses accreditation you may be able to stay and get "taught out" until you earn the MD title. Unfortunately, without the ability to take the USMLE exams, the degree you obtain would be both really expensive and utterly worthless.

Ok thanks for letting me know! Luckily, I just received an acceptance to a master's early assurance program at another school so I will be committing there instead. Good luck to the students at CNU though, I hope everything works out for them.

 

[NSdoc]

Ok thanks for letting me know! Luckily, I just received an acceptance to a master's early assurance program at another school so I will be committing there instead. Good luck to the students at CNU though, I hope everything works out for them.

Congratulations, both on your acceptance to a Master's program and on making a decision that you will not regret.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

For allopathic schools in the US, LCME accreditation is necessary for students to be eligible for the USMLE exams.. It is also a requirement of medical licensure in many states.

As @alexjonclement helpfully noted above, if CNU loses accreditation you may be able to stay and get "taught out" until you earn the MD title. Unfortunately, without the ability to take the USMLE exams, the degree you obtain would be both really expensive and utterly worthless.

That is just...a massive problem for CNU students. They can't take Step exams and are essentially up the proverbial creek with no paddle and a sinking boat. Perhaps they could transfer to other schools; it would absolutely suck to be a third-year at CNU, have it lose accreditation, and then need to find a way to take Step exams.

EDITED:

You will have applied to what you thought was a reputable medical school, only to have it lose accreditation. I wonder what would happen to these students...would other medical schools accept them as transfer students? Would they have to reapply, and if they did, what would their chances be like?

 

[NSdoc]

That is just...a massive problem for CNU students. They can't take Step exams and are essentially up the proverbial creek with no paddle and a sinking boat. Perhaps they could transfer to other schools; it would absolutely suck to be a third-year at CNU, have it lose accreditation, and then need to find a way to take Step exams.

EDITED:

You will have applied to what you thought was a reputable medical school, only to have it lose accreditation. I wonder what would happen to these students...would other medical schools accept them as transfer students? Would they have to reapply, and if they did, what would their chances be like?

"Reputable medical school"? The only difference between CNU & the Caribbean doctor mills is that the former is not physically out at sea!
The primary goal of both is making $$$.

 

[Penguin535]

For allopathic schools in the US, LCME accreditation is necessary for students to be eligible for the USMLE exams.. It is also a requirement of medical licensure in many states.

As @alexjonclement helpfully noted above, if CNU loses accreditation you may be able to stay and get "taught out" until you earn the MD title. Unfortunately, without the ability to take the USMLE exams, the degree you obtain would be both really expensive and utterly worthless.

I'm an incoming M1 this year. Is it true that if the school loses accreditation in March 2024, I will not be eligible for the residency match after I graduate?

I contacted the LCME directly about this exact question and this was their response so I'm not sure where this notion of CNU students not being eligible to take STEP exams and participate in the Match is coming from. Hope this helps alleviate questions/concerns prospective or even current students have about eligibility for STEP exams and being able to participate in the Match:

 

[Med Ed]

I contacted the LCME directly about this exact question and this was their response so I'm not sure where this notion of CNU students not being eligible to take STEP exams and participate in the Match is coming from.

It came from the USMLE Bulletin I linked above. Per your additional legwork on the matter, it looks like things aren't so grim for enrolled students.

If anyone can find the specific LCME provisions for teach out I would be interested to see them.

 

[Sunshine2024]

Attached is the Teach Out Policy that is available on the CNUCOM website and has been shared with the LCME. I would also like to refer everyone on this forum to the main 2022-2023 California Northstate Forum. The rising MD candidates on the main forum have done their due diligence and posted their findings.

 

[Penguin535]

It came from the USMLE Bulletin I linked above. Per your additional legwork on the matter, it looks like things aren't so grim for enrolled students.

If anyone can find the specific LCME provisions for teach out I would be interested to see them.

I could be wrong but I think each school has their own teach out provisions that they must get approved by the LCME. @Panda1 posted CNU’s teach out provisions above. The teach out provisions along with what the LCME has said about students being able to finish out while still being eligible for STEP exams and the match (in the event CNU loses accreditation) serve to ensure that current students at CNU will be able to become physicians.

 

[Med Ed]

I could be wrong but I think each school has their own teach out provisions that they must get approved by the LCME.

I don't believe this is correct. I've had plenty of interactions with the LCME over the years from the standpoint of institutional accreditation, and this is the first time I have encountered a teach out policy. I just searched the latest DCI for full accreditation visits and came up with no hits for the phrase "teach out." This may reflect the fact that no school has ever lost LCME accreditation.

It may be that the LCME required CNU to write such a policy as part of its ongoing accreditation saga, but it's not a common thing to have in place.

 

[gyngyn]

I could be wrong but I think each school has their own teach out provisions that they must get approved by the LCME. @Panda1 posted CNU’s teach out provisions above.

I can assure you that we do not have a "teach-put plan" or policy.

 

[Goro]

I can assure you that we do not have a "teach-put plan" or policy.

Nor my school.

Think about this: a current MD school in the US has to have an "abandon ship" plan. This isn't due to poor economics, but gross incompetence at running a medical school. That says something.

CNU students are victims in this situation.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. (Mike Tyson)

 

[Sunshine2024]

I don't believe this is correct. I've had plenty of interactions with the LCME over the years from the standpoint of institutional accreditation, and this is the first time I have encountered a teach out policy. I just searched the latest DCI for full accreditation visits and came up with no hits for the phrase "teach out." This may reflect the fact that no school has ever lost LCME accreditation.

It may be that the LCME required CNU to write such a policy as part of its ongoing accreditation saga, but it's not a common thing to have in place.

Hi Everyone,
Thank you for your continued dialogue on this topic. I appreciate the differing viewpoints and the civil discourse. Thank you @49erEMT for the reminder to listen to all viewpoints. You and @NSdoc comments are passionate and well-intended. You want to make sure prospective CNUCOM students keep their eyes wide open and fully understand the unique situation of the school.

Judging by the date on the Teachout Policy, it does appear that the policy was written in response to CNU's probationary status to safeguard enrolled students.

Thanks again to all of the advisors on this forum. I have learned so much about navigating the med school application process through reading many of your posts. I am greatly appreciative of the countless hours of advice and expertise you selflessly offer to the applicants throughout this overwhelming journey.

 

[urbandid]

Has there been any update on this school?

 

[NSdoc]

Has there been any update on this school?

The rot continues ......

 

[Goro]

The rot continues ......

Can you elaborate???

 

[NSdoc]

Can you elaborate???

With continuing departures few faculty with academic credentials remain.

 

[sah]

Catherine F. Yang, PhD, MD (h.c.)
Associate Dean of Medical Education
Professor of Molecular Pharmacology and Clinical Biochemistry

I have not seen someone use an honorary degree for an associate dean degree display.

 

[NSdoc]

Catherine F. Yang, PhD, MD (h.c.)
Associate Dean of Medical Education
Professor of Molecular Pharmacology and Clinical Biochemistry

I have not seen someone use an honorary degree for an associate dean degree display.

That "degree" was conferred by the college president to "recognize her service" which included pretending to be an Elk Grove resident supporting construction of a hospital in a residential area.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

From last April 2023

 

[gyngyn]

It is questionable (at best) to confer an MD to a non-MD. At worst, it may a criminal offense to use it on a business card: Cal. Bus. & Professions Code § 2054

 

[Mr.Smile12]

It is questionable (at best) to confer an MD to a non-MD. At worst, it may a criminal offense to use it on a business card: Cal. Bus. & Professions Code § 2054

Who gets charged? The Dean? The university president? The university trustees?

 

[gyngyn]

Who gets charged? The Dean? The university president? The university trustees?

To quote the PBPC, "Any person who uses in any sign, business card, or letterhead, or, in an advertisement, the words “doctor” or “physician,” the letters or prefix “Dr.,” the initials “M.D.,” or any other terms or letters indicating or implying that he or she is a physician and surgeon, physician, surgeon, or practitioner under the terms of this or any other law, or that he or she is entitled to practice hereunder, or who represents or holds himself or herself out as a physician and surgeon, physician, surgeon, or practitioner under the terms of this or any other law, without having at the time of so doing a valid, unrevoked, and unsuspended certificate as a physician and surgeon under this chapter, is guilty of a misdemeanor."

 

[Mr.Smile12]

To quote the PBPC, "Any person who uses in any sign, business card, or letterhead, or, in an advertisement, the words “doctor” or “physician,” the letters or prefix “Dr.,” the initials “M.D.,” or any other terms or letters indicating or implying that he or she is a physician and surgeon, physician, surgeon, or practitioner under the terms of this or any other law, or that he or she is entitled to practice hereunder, or who represents or holds himself or herself out as a physician and surgeon, physician, surgeon, or practitioner under the terms of this or any other law, without having at the time of so doing a valid, unrevoked, and unsuspended certificate as a physician and surgeon under this chapter, is guilty of a misdemeanor."

Thanks. I'm just curious who is going to sue. If I knew I could grovel to a university board to get an honorary MD doctorate, I would have tried harder... I'd also be sure that university covered my lawyer's fees.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm just curious who is going to sue.

A report to the Medical Board should be sufficient to initiate an investigation.

 

[caliapplicant2023/4]

Has there been any update on this school?

I’ve been wondering the same myself! I had a great interview with them and the faculty were all kind, professional, and enthusiastic about the school. Although I’ll likely go somewhere else, I’d love to see this new school take off and bring more primary care physicians into the Sacramento area!

 

[gyngyn]

I’d love to see this new school take off and bring more primary care physicians into the Sacramento area!

UC Merced is more likely to achieve this goal.

 

[caliapplicant2023/4]

UC Merced is more likely to achieve this goal.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

I’ve been wondering the same myself! I had a great interview with them and the faculty were all kind, professional, and enthusiastic about the school. Although I’ll likely go somewhere else, I’d love to see this new school take off and bring more primary care physicians into the Sacramento area!

I'm rooting for these guys to get their stuff together...but they seem to have more red flags than a CCP parade.

Multiple admissions committee members have said that turning down a CNU acceptance to reapply was OK...usually that is the kiss of death for an applicant.

Right now, it's a dumpster fire.

 

[NSdoc]

A report to the Medical Board should be sufficient to initiate an investigation.

In a different thread a student has shared a letter from the college president, a pharmacist. The letter is signed with the title "Dr.". The prefix is also used below the name without any mention that the individual is Pharm.D.