Biden Selects NP for Acting Surgeon General...

[bedrock]

Sounds like we had pretty similar upbringings and backgrounds, but you came out of it a bitter crybaby.

I highly doubt your upbringing was the same as mine, but thank you for proving my entire point about liberals with the last part of your sentence.

I just destroyed your entire argument about white male pseudo-oppression, and because you can't refute my premise intellectually, you resort to name calling, which is only one half-step above trying to cancel it.

Which is the reason I originally posted in this thread-

Cancel culture exists because when contemporary liberals can't demonstrate the intellectual superiority of their positions, they then resort to emotional/social/physical threats and name calling to protect themselves socially and emotionally by labeling everyone else a "deplorable".

---

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[Baron Samedi]

Your intellectual argument was an anecdotal sob story about how you had it so tough and you think those darn minorities had it so much easier than you (why you even went on that rant about affirmative action or whatever is beyond me -- I wasn't aware that's what the discussion was even about).

 

[bedrock]

Your intellectual argument was an anecdotal sob story about how you had it so tough and you think those darn minorities had it so much easier than you (why you even went on that rant about affirmative action or whatever is beyond me -- I wasn't aware that's what the discussion was even about).

My reply was to your post about pseduo-oppression. If you can't even remember about what you posted, that is on you.

My story was a concrete example of oppression towards non minority, non females in the modern US. And you termed it a sob story, yet if the individual in my story was a woman or a minority, liberals would call it a noble tale of struggle against adversity.
Again you resort to name calling, because that is what is done by liberals who can't debate intellectually.

Feel free to show us more than an ancedote but a real scientific study that demonstrates concrete and systemic examples of advantages given to white males who grew up in poverty in this current century in the US. Good luck----- 🧑‍🎤

 

[Baron Samedi]

The fact that you think your own experience of having a lot of minorities in your medical school class is a legitimate example of oppression of white males just goes to show how far apart we are on this and that nothing I could possibly say would have any impact, whatsoever.

 

[bedrock]

The fact that you think your own experience of having a lot of minorities in your medical school class is a legitimate example of oppression of white males just goes to show how far apart we are on this and that nothing I could possibly say would have any impact, whatsoever.

Because you have absolutely no intellectual argument to stand on, only the brainwashing you received from your liberal university/associates and you don't know how to actually think for yourself, but you can only repeat the party line that is chanted like a mantra on CNN/NYT.

I just destroyed your argument and then I asked you for evidence to refute my argument and you have none. You then stated that "nothing you would say would have anything of impact"...........because you have no reasonable evidence to present!

Just admit it, or better yet take some time for a hard look into why you believe what you believe and try to think outside the box into which the liberal media/university has brainwashed you.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Went to a rural state university and don't have cable or read NYT, but ok. Its not my job to try and convince you to change your deep-seated beliefs.

 

[bedrock]

Went to a rural state university and don't have cable or read NYT, but ok. Its not my job to try and convince you to change your deep-seeded beliefs.

Then maybe you shouldn’t enter into political discussions, and stick with the medical ones.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Then maybe you shouldn’t enter into political discussions....

Please quote one political point I've made in this thread.

 

[deleted314957]

Elections have consequences...

Biden administration to tap Susan Orsega as acting surgeon general: WaPo

The administration of Joe Biden has selected Susan Orsega, a nurse, to serve as the nation's acting surgeon general, the Washington Post reported on Monday, citing two people with knowledge of her selection.

www.reuters.com

So? That is an administrative position. I trained thru/with the military and decades ago they were promoting nurse corps officers and medical service corps officers to command positions at medical facilities, though not as commonly as medical corps officers. Frankly, most military docs i worked with would not make the military a 20+ yr career ( one of several reasons) because you very often would get promoted to such an administrative position and dreaded the prospect.

 

[Mad Jack]

Your first sentence is self-contradictory. Free speech is allowed......"as long as you believe the exact same as me"
That is exactly what democrats are doing in the news, print/electronic media, and on college campuses, etc.

But I wasn't speaking solely about this forum as much as I was America today, where people particularly males, or whites, especially if both, are scared to actually express their opinions because they are no longer allowed this freedom in America.
I did not vote for Trump in 2016, but part of the reason he won that year, and why the democrats won far fewer seats in Congress than polling suggested both in 2016 and in 2020, is because free speech is no longer part of America and a huge part of America doesn't feel safe expressing their feelings in public just like the friends I made in Moscow in the early 90s, didn't feel comfortable expressing their feelings under Communism,

It is annoying to see that come to a DISCUSSION forum, where Doctodd felt he needed to remove his meme, likely because he worried it could get him banned by the PC police.

Freedom of speech means you have the right to say things, not that those things don't have social consequences. People can say antisemitic, racist, transphobic, or homophobic things all they like, but they will be cast out of certain areas of society

 

[Mad Jack]

So? That is an administrative position. I trained thru/with the military and decades ago they were promoting nurse corps officers and medical service corps officers to command positions at medical facilities, though not as commonly as medical corps officers. Frankly, most military docs i worked with would not make the military a 20+ yr career ( one of several reasons) because you very often would get promoted to such an administrative position and dreaded the prospect.

Anything past O-7 is basically an administrative role. It's like OP being upset at a nurse becoming a hospital CEO when admin work isn't necessarily something you need a MD for

 

[drusso]

Anything past O-7 is basically an administrative role. It's like OP being upset at a nurse becoming a hospital CEO when admin work isn't necessarily something you need a MD for

I think that an MD/DO degree should be REQUIRED to be a hospital CEO.

 

[Mad Jack]

I think that an MD/DO degree should be REQUIRED to be a hospital CEO.

Eh, being a physician in no way qualifies someone to be a manager. Best hospital CEO I ever worked under had a MPH and nothing else

 

[deleted131481]

OMG. I'm not trying to insult you with my next sentence......., but if you truly have to ask that question, you are either clearly not a white male, have been living under a rock for the past 20 years, or have just taken the blue pill and have never lived outside of a deep blue city or had a real friendship/relationship with someone who didn't have your cultural/political upbringing.

I previously referenced both white and male, as white women also have reverse discrimination/cancel culture directed to them, though to a lesser degree.

I'm going out for a hike so I don't have time for a comprehensive list of examples though there are thousands of them, but here are just a few examples of how white people are no longer allowed free speech in the western world. (BTW, if you don't believe the liberal media is deliberating maninpulating you into not believing that anti white and anti male bias exists, take a look at this final example. I did a web search on google which is know for being run by extreme left wing liberals and found nothing on the first two pages, I then repeated the search with duckduckgo and found all of these in the first 5 responses)

The Year in Cancel Culture

2019 is canceled, and so were these people.

reason.com

Opinion | 10 Theses About Cancel Culture (Published 2020)

What we talk about when we talk about “cancellation.”

www.nytimes.com

Yes, cancel culture is real — and it’s dangerous - Washington Examiner

“Cancel culture” doesn't exist, leftists say out of one side of their mouths. At the same time, out of the other side of their mouths, they are cheering on the online mobs that seek to shame and even ruin the lives of those deemed to have committed thought crimes. This is gaslighting, and it is

www.washingtonexaminer.com

I can't read the NYT article because it's behind a paywall, but the others discuss 'cancel culture.' Seems to be online mobs/trolls attacking people for their political/social/racial beliefs, sometimes from years ago.

I fail to see how this is a uniquely white or male problem. How about Parler, Qanon, etc? Lots of deep-seated resentment and sympathy regarding anti-white bias. Also a cesspool of false information, hate, and conspiracy theories

I am a white male myself living in a conservative area. I can't recall sexist or racist comments made toward me. Can't say the reverse is true for female and non-white colleagues over the years through school/training/work.

Your story and mine, and the ones in the articles above - all anecdotes. Anecdotes don't prove a political point.

And your last point - Google brings up plenty of hits on cancel culture. Not sure what you're talking about?

 

[deleted314957]

Anything past O-7 is basically an administrative role. It's like OP being upset at a nurse becoming a hospital CEO when admin work isn't necessarily something you need a MD for

And O-6 unless you are at one of the few remaining big teaching hospitals. Otherwise, the C.O. is an O-6 (or O-5 small places). lots of docs don’t want to be dept head at big hospital with residency or CO/XO at other smaller facilities.

 

[hyperalgesia]

Non-physician healthcare people are great at being bureaucrats. Pharmacists, nurses, MBAs, MPHs can run organized meetings and design policy around metrics, which are provided to them. They can apply carrots and sticks and dispense bonuses designed to move everyone toward a goal, which is provided to them.

They are the bureaucratic foot soldiers that separate doctors from patients and provide no added value to health care.

Doctors should be DRAFTED to fill leadership positions that only they are capable of doing- providing CRITICAL THINKING to systems to orient them around what is best for patients, in the context of financial limitations.

 

[bedrock]

Please quote one political point I've made in this thread.

🤦‍♂️

 

[bedrock]

Freedom of speech means you have the right to say things, not that those things don't have social consequences. People can say antisemitic, racist, transphobic, or homophobic things all they like, but they will be cast out of certain areas of society

My point is that liberals have a difficult time having a discussion with anyone who doesn't agree with their entire agenda, they just stick on the labels you listed and call them a deplorable. They don't allow conservative speakers on campuses. If contemporary liberals are truly confident in the intellectual and moral superiority of their position then why not encourage discussion and debate as is protected by the Constitution?
Ben Shapiro can only speak at major universities if he is surrounded by literally 20-30 security guards. He is a Harvard trained lawyer, father of two, likely weighs 140 lbs, has never physically threatened anyone, but he requires an army to protect him on most major university campuses........because all these brainwashed liberal kids do not actually support free speech. And those brainwashed kids then go out into world and continue suppress free speech. That is what upsets me and that is why I posted so much on this thread today. I believe in free speech and I am upset when it is suppressed in the first modern democracy of the world.

Case in point----https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-watch-when-joe-rogan-gave-honest-opinion-transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-s-emergence

Joe Rogan is a self declared democrat, votes for democrats, but he isn't a brainwashed liberal robot clone which is one of the reasons why he has the most popular podcast in the world.
He took a great deal of flack for expressing his free opinion that he believes it is not fair for someone who was born with XY chromosome and thus has the skeletal structure of a man, to compete against XX women in MMA.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Okay but none of what you wrote has anything to do at all with anything that was being discussed in this thread. Doctodd posted a hateful meme disparaging a minority group and was called out for it and for some reason you are using this as your soapbox for the "liberals"(as if everybody who feels differently than you can be lumped into one giant homogenous group). Nobody threatened him, nobody "suppressed his free speech". You're just ranting.

You want us to have a meaningful intellectual discussion with Doctodd about his repeated bigoted comments against minority groups? Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[Mad Jack]

My point is that liberals have a difficult time having a discussion with anyone who doesn't agree with their entire agenda, they just stick on the labels you listed and call them a deplorable. They don't allow conservative speakers on campuses. If contemporary liberals are truly confident in the intellectual and moral superiority of their position then why not encourage discussion and debate as is protected by the Constitution?
Ben Shapiro can only speak at major universities if he is surrounded by literally 20-30 security guards. He is a Harvard trained lawyer, father of two, likely weighs 140 lbs, has never physically threatened anyone, but he requires an army to protect him on most major university campuses........because all these brainwashed liberal kids do not actually support free speech. And those brainwashed kids then go out into world and continue suppress free speech. That is what upsets me and that is why I posted so much on this thread today. I believe in free speech and I am upset when it is suppressed in the first modern democracy of the world.

Case in point----https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-watch-when-joe-rogan-gave-honest-opinion-transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-s-emergence

Joe Rogan is a self declared democrat, votes for democrats, but he isn't a brainwashed liberal robot clone which is one of the reasons why he has the most popular podcast in the world.
He took a great deal of flack for expressing his free opinion that he believes it is not fair for someone who was born with XY chromosome and thus has the skeletal structure of a man, to compete against XX women in MMA.

There's some legitimate points there. Like, Joe and I agree on a lot. Transgender women have larger bones, higher bone density early in transition, and larger inserion points that allow for more leverage, so there's a scientific argument to be made there.

Ben Shapiro is a propagandist though, a dishonest pseudointellectual that pains his worldview as fact. He is generally terrible, and not the kind of guy that deserves a platform more on the principle that he's a laughable clown and offering him a platform legitimizes his buffoonery in a way it doesn't deserve. Most legitimate conservatives deserve to debate freely, but Shapiro is an entertainer and a grifter, be doesn't deserve to speak on a campus for the same reason I wouldn't want Dr. Oz speaking on one. Campuses are for legitimate ideas, not BS crafted to look legitimate

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

There's some legitimate points there. Like, Joe and I agree on a lot. Transgender women have larger bones, higher bone density early in transition, and larger inserion points that allow for more leverage, so there's a scientific argument to be made there.

Ben Shapiro is a propagandist though, a dishonest pseudointellectual that pains his worldview as fact. He is generally terrible, and not the kind of guy that deserves a platform more on the principle that he's a laughable clown and offering him a platform legitimizes his buffoonery in a way it doesn't deserve. Most legitimate conservatives deserve to debate freely, but Shapiro is an entertainer and a grifter, be doesn't deserve to speak on a campus for the same reason I wouldn't want Dr. Oz speaking on one. Campuses are for legitimate ideas, not BS crafted to look legitimate

And people wonder why so many think that conservative thought is under attack.

You think the Shapiro's ideas are valueless and so you think he should not be allowed to speak on college campuses.

 

[clubdeac]

Madjack, your name should be highjack. Wow, you've got some strong and apparently superior political views. Assuming you're not an MD based on the true lack of respect of your title. It would not seem unreasonable that those with the highest level of education in medicine should be in the highest levels of position. This theory of course has been turned upside down as has a whole host of other "backwards conservative" views. Thank you for your enlightening perspectives

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Madjack, your name should be highjack. Wow, you've got some strong and apparently superior political views. Assuming you're not an MD based on the true lack of respect of your title. It would not seem unreasonable that those with the highest level of education in medicine should be in the highest levels of position. This theory of course has been turned upside down as has a whole host of other "backwards conservative" views. Thank you for your enlightening perspectives

That seems unnecessarily harsh

 

[Mad Jack]

And people wonder why so many think that conservative thought is under attack.

You think the Shapiro's ideas are valueless and so you think he should not be allowed to speak on college campuses.

Shapiro isn't a conservative, he is a clown. I'm fine with conservatives speaking on campus, Shapiro is a marketer and a hack. I'll just start compiling a list of his greatest hits:

The video below, in which Shapiro shows his ignorance of the British journalistic interviewing style, (in which extreme views are countered by the host presenting an equally extreme counterpoint while not holding that view themselves, basically playing devil's advocate) will remain forever priceless. It demonstrates Shapiro for what he is, a person who attempts to undermine debate rather than actually engage in it:

I would continue but I've got work to do. What it boils down to is that Shapiro is aself-aggrandizing opinion peddler that tries to hide under a guise of facts and logic while not actually exemplifying either of these things. He fails to engage in honest debate, using false premises and a great deal of ad hominem, and isn't the person I'd be asking my campus to be providing a platform.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Shapiro isn't a conservative, he is a clown. I'm fine with conservatives speaking on campus, Shapiro is a marketer and a hack. I'll just start compiling a list of his greatest hits:

The video below, in which Shapiro shows his ignorance of the British journalistic interviewing style, (in which extreme views are countered by the host presenting an equally extreme counterpoint while not holding that view themselves, basically playing devil's advocate) will remain forever priceless. It demonstrates Shapiro for what he is, a person who attempts to undermine debate rather than actually engage in it:

I would continue but I've got work to do. What it boils down to is that Shapiro is aself-aggrandizing opinion peddler that tries to hide under a guise of facts and logic while not actually exemplifying either of these things. He fails to engage in honest debate, using false premises and a great deal of ad hominem, and isn't the person I'd be asking my campus to be providing a platform.View attachment 328853View attachment 328854View attachment 328856View attachment 328857

Saying stupid things doesn't mean you can't be conservative/liberal/whatever.

 

[Mad Jack]

Saying stupid things doesn't mean you can't be conservative/liberal/whatever.

Oh he's a conservative, he just doesn't deserve to be on a debate stage any more than the homeless guy ranting about reptiles at your local gas station. If we're going to have debates on campus, they should be with people whose views are worth sharing

 

[Agast]

Saying stupid things doesn't mean you can't be conservative/liberal/whatever.

Describing those words as stupid is an insult to stupid people.

I'm not even Arabic and it sent a chill down my spine.

 

[clubdeac]

Oh he's a conservative, he just doesn't deserve to be on a debate stage any more than the homeless guy ranting about reptiles at your local gas station. If we're going to have debates on campus, they should be with people whose views are worth sharing

I’d pay to see you get destroyed by him on the debate stage. Now that would be entertaining

 

[clubdeac]

Describing those words as stupid is an insult to stupid people.

I'm not even Arabic and it sent a chill down my spine.

Then I’m sure madjacks insults of homeless people with mental health issues did as well

“Oh he's a conservative, he just doesn't deserve to be on a debate stage any more than the homeless guy ranting about reptiles at your local gas station. If we're going to have debates on campus, they should be with people whose views are worth sharing”

 

[Baron Samedi]

I’d pay to see you get destroyed by him on the debate stage. Now that would be entertaining

That's like saying you'd pay to watch Ben Shapiro perform a stim implant. Its totally irrelevant.

 

[Agast]

Then I’m sure madjacks insults of homeless people with mental health issues did as well

“Oh he's a conservative, he just doesn't deserve to be on a debate stage any more than the homeless guy ranting about reptiles at your local gas station. If we're going to have debates on campus, they should be with people whose views are worth sharing”

It's not insulting to say that a homeless person with mental health problems should not be on a debate stage. It's the truth.

I hope you don't think it's true that "Arabs like to bomb crap and live in open sewage"

 

[Mad Jack]

I’d pay to see you get destroyed by him on the debate stage. Now that would be entertaining

I also don't deserve to be on a debate stage, for the record

 

[Mad Jack]

Then I’m sure madjacks insults of homeless people with mental health issues did as well

“Oh he's a conservative, he just doesn't deserve to be on a debate stage any more than the homeless guy ranting about reptiles at your local gas station. If we're going to have debates on campus, they should be with people whose views are worth sharing”

The point was more that such an individual was equally as worthy of being on a debate stage as Ben Shapiro and was not meant to be insulting. I, too, should not be up there. That is to say that neither of them should be there, because college debates are for important thought leaders to engage in front of an audience. Ben Shapiro is unimportant and hardly considered to be an intellectual by anyone with any sense on the right or left. And who said the homeless guy has mental health issues? He could just be another Qanoner who got fired for storming the capitol that went too far down the conspiracy rabbit hole. The vast majority of believers in a reptilian conspiracies, a flat Earth, Qanon, and the Illuminati are perfectly sane individuals whose imaginations have combined with their politics to form a worldview that consists of nonsense.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Oh he's a conservative, he just doesn't deserve to be on a debate stage any more than the homeless guy ranting about reptiles at your local gas station. If we're going to have debates on campus, they should be with people whose views are worth sharing

Isn't that up to the school and/or the students of that school to decide?

 

[Ducttape]

Your first sentence is self-contradictory. Free speech is allowed......"as long as you believe the exact same as me"
That is exactly what democrats are doing in the news, print/electronic media, and on college campuses, etc.

But I wasn't speaking solely about this forum as much as I was America today, where people particularly males, or whites, especially if both, are scared to actually express their opinions because they are no longer allowed this freedom in America.
I did not vote for Trump in 2016, but part of the reason he won that year, and why the democrats won far fewer seats in Congress than polling suggested both in 2016 and in 2020, is because free speech is no longer part of America and a huge part of America doesn't feel safe expressing their feelings in public just like the friends I made in Moscow in the early 90s, didn't feel comfortable expressing their feelings under Communism,

It is annoying to see that come to a DISCUSSION forum, where Doctodd felt he needed to remove his meme, likely because he worried it could get him banned by the PC police.

this is patently false.

My reply was to your post about pseduo-oppression. If you can't even remember about what you posted, that is on you.

My story was a concrete example of oppression towards non minority, non females in the modern US. And you termed it a sob story, yet if the individual in my story was a woman or a minority, liberals would call it a noble tale of struggle against adversity.
Again you resort to name calling, because that is what is done by liberals who can't debate intellectually.

Feel free to show us more than an ancedote but a real scientific study that demonstrates concrete and systemic examples of advantages given to white males who grew up in poverty in this current century in the US. Good luck----- 🧑‍🎤

White workers are more likely than black or Latino Americans to have a good job — even with the same level of education - MarketWatch

Wages Are Unequal Between White and Black Men Even When Other Factors Are Comparable (shrm.org)



one may argue it is all related to poverty. here is an interesting study - SEC is probably not the sole cause. see last graph.

The Educational Opportunity Monitoring Project: Racial and Ethnic Achievement Gaps (stanford.edu)

inferential data:
There Are Currently Four Black CEOs in the Fortune 500 - The Atlantic
and
• Executives in the U.S.: racial and ethnic diversity of CEOs 2018 | Statista

 

[Mad Jack]

Isn't that up to the school and/or the students of that school to decide?

It is. Hence why schools and students often decide he really shouldn't be there and send him on his way before arrival

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

It is. Hence why schools and students often decide he really shouldn't be there and send him on his way before arrival

Which goes back to my original point:

And people wonder why so many think that conservative thought is under attack.

You think the Shapiro's ideas are valueless and so you think he should not be allowed to speak on college campuses.

Lots of conservatives listen to him and think his ideas have value. You're basically saying "You're wrong because his ideas are bad and because of that he shouldn't have a platform for them."

Once again, can't imagine why conservatives think their ideas are under attack.

 

[Mad Jack]

Which goes back to my original point:


Lots of conservatives listen to him and think his ideas have value. You're basically saying "You're wrong because his ideas are bad and because of that he shouldn't have a platform for them."

Once again, can't imagine why conservatives think their ideas are under attack.

Conservatives are fine. His views, in particular, don't deserve a platform. His views are not emblematic of conservatism at large, and are quite fringe and inflammatory in several areas. It's like if a college stated they wamted a liberal to speak, but didn't want a member of Antifa to be the one to do it. Conflating the distaste for a particular conservative that has said things even many conservatives would find distasteful is not decrying conservatism itself, but rather fringe elements within it. Giving someone a platform grants them legitimacy. America defeated fascism by not giving fascists a place to speak (read up on the history of George Lincoln Rockwell), and proved the very idea that eliminating the spread of fringe ideas via deplatforming is possible. Careful thought should be given to whom is given the endorsement of a college to speak, as people are free to speak wherever they want, but once you invite someone for a debate that person is granted the status of authority in their arena and legitimacy in the eyes of students and the public at large.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Conservatives are fine. His views, in particular, don't deserve a platform. His views are not emblematic of conservatism at large, and are quite fringe and inflammatory in several areas. It's like if a college stated they wamted a liberal to speak, but didn't want a member of Antifa to be the one to do it. Conflating the distaste for a particular conservative that has said things even many conservatives would find distasteful is not decrying conservatism itself, but rather fringe elements within it. Giving someone a platform grants them legitimacy. America defeated fascism by not giving fascists a place to speak (read up on the history of George Lincoln Rockwell), and proved the very idea that eliminating the spread of fringe ideas via deplatforming is possible. Careful thought should be given to whom is given the endorsement of a college to speak, as people are free to speak wherever they want, but once you invite someone for a debate that person is granted the status of authority in their arena and legitimacy in the eyes of students and the public at large.

If said member of Antifa could reasonably discuss their viewpoints, I'd be 100% fine with them being invited to wherever. Shapiro has some more right wing views than is the norm, but much of what he says is quite reasonable and from what I understand reasonably well thought out. Even the stuff I disagree with him on these days I can at least understand his perspective.

 

[Baron Samedi]

If said member of Antifa could reasonably discuss their viewpoints, I'd be 100% fine with them being invited to wherever. Shapiro has some more right wing views than is the norm, but much of what he says is quite reasonable and from what I understand reasonably well thought out. Even the stuff I disagree with him on these days I can at least understand his perspective.

As a thought experiment...would you feel the same way if the speaker was someone like Timothy McVeigh instead of Ben Shapiro?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

As a thought experiment...would you feel the same way if the speaker was someone like Timothy McVeigh instead of Ben Shapiro?

Probably not. I'm sure there's some grey area there I'm overlooking but I'd feel OK putting a blanket ban on convicted mass murderers.

But as a general rule, as long as a speaker doesn't call for/incite violence I've no objection to them speaking.

 

[bedrock]

Probably not. I'm sure there's some grey area there I'm overlooking but I'd feel OK putting a blanket ban on convicted mass murderers.

But as a general rule, as long as a speaker doesn't call for/incite violence I've no objection to them speaking.

Exactly. Unless a speaker tries to incite violence, then there is no reasonable grounds under the Constitution to prevent them from speaking. Doing so is simple cowardice and groupthink on the far left

 

[bedrock]

92 posts on this thread, and not a single liberal actually defended the first article of the bill of rights. Which is free speech for all, even those with whom you disagree. Otherwise the phrase, "free speech" means nothing. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

When your children go to school and the constitution comes up in their studies, you should recuse yourself from discussing it with them because apparently none of you actually believe or defend the constitution of this country.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Bedrock, on average, how many times a day do you say or think the word "liberal"?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Bedrock, on average, how many times a day do you say or think the word "liberal"?

Speaking for myself, I lose track around 800 or so

 

[Mad Jack]

92 posts on this thread, and not a single liberal actually defended the first article of the bill of rights. Which is free speech for all, even those with whom you disagree. Otherwise the phrase, "free speech" means nothing. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

When your children go to school and the constitution comes up in their studies, you should recuse yourself from discussing it with them because apparently none of you actually believe or defend the constitution of this country.

The First Amendment states that the government can't restrict free speech. It does not state that you have the right to be published or promoted by private organizations or the government, nor does it state that your speech is without consequence. This is basic civics, my god. Organizations and individuals are free to judge your speech as they see fit and to not allow you to engage in it on their platforms or their private property.

 

[Ducttape]

92 posts on this thread, and not a single liberal actually defended the first article of the bill of rights. Which is free speech for all, even those with whom you disagree. Otherwise the phrase, "free speech" means nothing. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

When your children go to school and the constitution comes up in their studies, you should recuse yourself from discussing it with them because apparently none of you actually believe or defend the constitution of this country.

Exactly. Unless a speaker tries to incite violence, then there is no reasonable grounds under the Constitution to prevent them from speaking. Doing so is simple cowardice and groupthink on the far left

this are restrictions to the First Amendment. there always have been.

in the case of the Capitol, the gathering initially was peaceful. however, the words of the speakers, from guilani to trump jr to trump himself all incited the crowd to violence, and it changed from a peaceful gathering to one that was not.

i know its hard for you to admit, but it was not peaceful when they started marching to the Capitol and then broke in.

First Amendment - Free Speech, Press, Religion

First Amendment - Free Speech, Press, Religion: Despite the broad freedom of expression guaranteed by the First Amendment, there are some historically rooted exceptions. First, the government may generally restrict the time, place, or manner of speech, if the restrictions are unrelated to what...

www.britannica.com

and

First Amendment

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The First Amendment states that the government can't restrict free speech. It does not state that you have the right to be published or promoted by private organizations or the government, nor does it state that your speech is without consequence. This is basic civics, my god. Organizations and individuals are free to judge your speech as they see fit and to not allow you to engage in it on their platforms or their private property.

That's why I like separating First Amendment and Free Speech. One is codified law, the other is a principle.

 

[lobelsteve]

this are restrictions to the First Amendment. there always have been.

in the case of the Capitol, the gathering initially was peaceful. however, the words of the speakers, from guilani to trump jr to trump himself all incited the crowd to violence, and it changed from a peaceful gathering to one that was not.

i know its hard for you to admit, but it was not peaceful when they started marching to the Capitol and then broke in.

First Amendment - Free Speech, Press, Religion

First Amendment - Free Speech, Press, Religion: Despite the broad freedom of expression guaranteed by the First Amendment, there are some historically rooted exceptions. First, the government may generally restrict the time, place, or manner of speech, if the restrictions are unrelated to what...

www.britannica.com

and

First Amendment

www.law.cornell.edu

And Trump himself planted pipe bombs at the Capitol the night before....

 

[Mad Jack]

That's why I like separating First Amendment and Free Speech. One is codified law, the other is a principle.

I agree that people are free to say whatever they want. And it what they say is awful, people are free to not associate with them, either as individuals or organizations. Freedom is not just about being able to do something, it is also about the freedom of others to not engage with beliefs they disagree with. The freedom of association, for instance, prevents the government from interfering in individuals associating with one another, however it also allows people the freedom to not be forced to associate with organizations to which they do not agree.

The freedom to do detestable or stupid things or to associate with detestable or stupid people does not mean freedom from the consequences of your associations or actions. The court of public opinion is the arbiter of the things that the government is not, and that court is free to judge as it pleases by the very Bill of Rights that those falling afoul of opinion cling to.