Best vibes in Chicago and NYC

[m3unsure]

Hey everyone,

Which progs in Chicago and NYC gave you the best vibes and which ones didn't? I have only gone to Columbia so far, but that place feels pretty weird. I think they get beaten pretty bad, meaning 80hrs/wk. There seems to be no love. Anyone agree?

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[bullard]

If you gotta be in NYC --> Columbia.

If you gotta be in Chicago --> Northwestern.

In all honesty, the top programs are pretty similar and will get you where you want to be whether it's academics or private practice, so pick your city first.

 

[cchoukal]

There are great programs everywhere, and every great program is going to expose you to pathology, multiple approaches to patient care, and opportunity for jobs and fellowships. My opinion is that, within that group of programs, you just have to sort of feel around for what fits. If Columbia feels weird, there're a dozen other programs out there that are just as "good" but might be a better fit for you personally.

As an aside, if you gotta be in chicago --> U of C.

 

[cytanaka]

If you gotta be in NYC --> Columbia.

If you gotta be in Chicago --> Northwestern.

In all honesty, the top programs are pretty similar and will get you where you want to be whether it's academics or private practice, so pick your city first.

Hey Bullard. I'd like to hear a litle more on your opinion on this; I tend to agree with the Columbia/NW personally, but just from personal choice.

I've done Columbia as well, and I was actually suprised there; being Columbia, I was prepared for the worst, but I thought the residents were pretty happy and friendly.

I'd like to hear other people's opinion on this one though. Anyone got opinions on Cornell vs Columbia? (aside from the housing thing)

 

[chips]

i actually liked cornell better than columbia; a lot of it is just the 'vibe' that i got. both are obviously great academic programs, but of the little things - i liked the residents at cornell better, the beautiful ORs with the sunlight streaming in from the east, the categorical nature of the program (with specially designed internship year including 3 months of anesthesia), and then last but not least the housing.

 

[bullard]

Biases: I'm a PGY-1 at Northwestern.

NWU vs UChicago:

Call schedule: UChicago wins, for the moment. On the other hand, we are expanding our classes at NWU from 18 to 21. There was some unhappiness with the call schedule a few years ago because one class had dropped from 18 to 14 b/c people left for reasons unrelated to the program (mostly family stuff). The classes that are full seem happy with the schedule.

Caseload: NWU wins. 35 ORs downtown, another 16 or so at Children's Memorial, and a bunch more at Evanston. Tons of regional, tons of sick OB, 4 months of dedicated peds months, tons of cardiac (one of our cardiac surgeons did leave recently but 1) he sucked and 2) he will be replaced very soon). Try asking UoC's program director about his caseload. You will not find a more defensive guy on the interview trail.

Patients: I don't know where this "rich healthy patients go to NWU, poor patients who never see a doctor go to uchicago" meme got started, but it is utter bulls h i t. Just came off a month of wards, where everybody was sick as s h i t, and half of my patients were homeless and/or free care. Nobody going to the OR gets away from having an anesthesiology resident on the case (unless it's a chip-shot case, in which case a CRNA might do it). Speaking of which...

Relations with CRNAs: very cordial at U of C, as far as I could tell. At NWU, CRNAs stop work at 3 pm (!) and guess who replaces them...attendings! OK, usually it's residents, but it's not unusual to see a few attendings a day with their own rooms...there's just that much work to go around.

Categorical internship: NWU. NWU's is harder but you're taking care of sicker patients -- U of C's involves a number of relatively cush months at a community hospital. NWU's is also 10 months long -- you start anesthesia in May of your intern year ahead of your counterparts starting in July.

ICU training: I'm calling this a toss-up. U of C anesthesia covers the CVICU and burn ICU. U of C residents were enthused about burn ICU being an easy month more than anything else -- I'm sure CVICU there is tough and a good educational experience. NWU covers the neurosurg ICU and is in the process of taking over the CVICU. Neurosurg ICU is rough. At the moment, PGY1s and PGY4s rotate through the CVICU with an attending but the CT surgeons and their fellows are calling the shots with NPs (!) doing the grunt work -- we're basically there on a consult basis and for lines, tubes, and other associated bitch-work. Next year, we will have more residents there and the PGY4s will start taking overnight call with (or maybe instead of?) the CT surg fellows. Eventually, the CVICU will function just like the NSICU (surgeons admit to the unit, and then we run the show). Growing pains at the moment though.

Moonlighting: UChicago. NWU doesn't have moonlighting at all, and has no plans to change this.

Didactics: probably U of C.

Location, facilities, ancillary staff: NWU.

Job and fellowship opportunities after residency: tossup

Sorry for the long post; hope it helps somebody.

 

[cchoukal]

Bias: I'm a CA1 at U of C

I think Bullard gave a nice synopsis, but I'll make a few points:

Caseload: I honestly don't know what kinds of numbers we put up. What I recall from the interview was that we, like pretty much every top program, complete our ABA/ASA number of required cases by the end of 2nd year. I'd guess our CV/CT numbers are lower than for other cases, as they are nationwide. The number of operating rooms is irrelvant outside the context of the ratio of rooms/residents. In any case, in 6 months I've done a grand total of 1 inguinal hernia and 2 lap choles, but 3 kidney transplants and 2 whipples (1 a redo).

Categorical year: we do spend about half our year at an affiliated community hospital. I would say about 2 months of that are cush. Floor months are crappy everywhere, and most of the inpatient population there is either homeless or very elderly, and in either case, quite poor and in poor health. We do 3-4 months of ICU, depending on the schedule, as interns.

Anyway, that's how I see it. And like I said, brand-name programs will give you what you need; the decision will likely come down to the vibe you get on interview day.

 

[VentdependenT]

How is Simon Adanin doing over there?

I freakin love that kid. Did my internship year with him. If you bump into him, okease tell him that his favorite fellow glenviewite anesthesiology resident wishes to goose him.

 

[Mista Suprane]

my opinion, based on my two friends at northwestern (one a CA-3, and one who finished, but is now a pain fellow), and friend who just finished at u of c:

want strong didactics, shorter hours, moonlighting, research, dedication to your education vs. filling the ORs, and probably preparing you for a career in academia? ---> u of c

want to learn mostly on your own, get worked pretty hard, not too much research or academic focus, and feel like you are getting used BUT get trained better clinically than any program in the country, and have private practice groups salivating over you after you are done? northwestern

that being said, i'm probably presenting it as a black and white, whereas the truth is, like most things, gray. you can probably do anything you want after finishing either residency; they just seem to focus on different things.

 

[randomq]

in nyc, best "vibe" seems to be mt sinai hands down, then cornell, then the rest are up for debate

 

[mullerian]

Do you guys in chicago programs have any insight on the other chicago programs as well? Like advocate, cook county, u of I, rush? I'm very interested in going to chicago!

 

[aredoubleyou]

Do you guys in chicago programs have any insight on the other chicago programs as well? Like advocate, cook county, u of I, rush? I'm very interested in going to chicago!

Substitute Rush for Northwestern in the above discussion and Uof I with U of C. Loyola maybe somewhere in between. How much of all of this (including the million or so posts on comparing chicago programs) is oversimplified and overly focused on differences and not similarities?...probably a lot.

 

[DrRobert]

My 2 cents...

NW:
- Top 20 program
- One of the best clinical training programs in the country. period.
- The focus is definitely clinical medicine and not academics, although opportunities exist for research.
- You will get worked here.
- Great location, facilities.
- Relationship between residents and faculty is cold.

U of C:
- Top 20 program
- Adequate clinical training but the focus is more on academics.
- Works hours better than NW.
- Location and facilities not on par with NW, yet.
- Relationship between residents and faculty is warm.


Two very different top 20 programs that will both prepare you for a career in academics or private practice. They just offer different means to an end.

 

[ketafol]

Whats the word on Loyola and UIC? They are not mentioned very often.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

I thought U of C was the cream of the crop. At least it was when Roizen was there. No?

 

[badgas]

I interviewed at both. UIC is very resident friendly. Work hours were described as 55-60. I can't remember if they have a night float system. It was very laid back. U of C was much more academic. Much nicer facilities, awesome moonlighting opportunities and a slightly higher workload. Awesome moonlighting opportunities where you basically get paid for sleeping/tv/reading/etc. Both seem like great, non-malignant programs. The residents from both programs seem well trained and happy, which is the most important thing to me.

 

[Mista Suprane]

I thought U of C was the cream of the crop. At least it was when Roizen was there. No?

I'm pretty sure Roizen was at UIC. Now @ CCF.

 

[ketafol]

I'm pretty sure Roizen was at UIC. Now @ CCF.

Nope, U of C. Albrecht has been at UIC for the last 25 years or so. Retiring this year.