Australian Medical Schools offering Graduate Entry

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Hey Traveler,
Thanks for the thoughts. I have talked with quite a few people over the last few weeks, and the more I hear, the more I am excited about heading down under. I know that Australians acutally do get competitive positions here in the states, but I fear that there will be a stigma attached to the American who was trained in OZ as opposed to stateside.
But in spite of that, I am still going to Australia because I don't want to live the next 4 years of my life just trying to make it through. I want to enjoy the process, and I think that being in Australia will facilitate that.

By the way, congrats on getting in to Sydney. I'm sure that you will love it if you don't decide on other schools.

=Da Monkey

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Hello. I'm an international student who is currently studying at Usyd in Bachelor of Science (Advanced). I'm going to apply for medical schools in Australia as well as some med schools overseas.

I accidently found this website and I've obtained lots of valuable information. I found that this website is quite helpful. So I want to share a bit of recent information that I've heard of.

I've heard that from 2003, ANU (Australian National University) offers 4 year graduate med program. Therefore in next year, there will be 5 med schools in Aust. which offer graduate medical program (Usyd, Melb, Univ. of Queensland, Flinders and ANU).

Also, I've heard that from 2003, the Univ. of Sydney allows international students to apply 'directly', using its own application form rather than ACER (I checked the website). Also, I observed that Flinders med. school has its own application form as well. So I'm assuming that if this is the case, there might be a possibility that a single international student can get up to 3 interviews (Usyd., Flinders, and one of 2 nominated med. schools in the ACER application form). Can anyone tell me whether I'm correct or not?

Currently, the only med. schools in Aust. which offer scholarship are Usyd. and Flinders. (8 (20% out of 40 people) in Usyd and 5 in Flinders). No other med. schools seem to offer scholarship (Currently, it seems that Univ. of Queensland doesn't offer scholarship).


Ok, this is my question. Does anyone have any idea about the ranking of each med. school in Aust. (or at least Usyd GMP), compared with that of med. schools in the US and other countries? I know this might be a vague question but I just want to know international reputation of Aust. med schools (and I know that this is not important either).
 
hi,

ranking and reputation are vague. there is no USNews report-like publications for aussie med schools.

reputation in general usyd and umelb are well known in most circles. some specific areas are more repsected eg. umelb's neurosurgery prof kayeand usyd's vasuclar surgery team and public health simon chapman(superstars or strong departments with research output). sometimes doctors in other countries know specific hospitals eg RMH or RPAH.
 
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hi guys

i'm new to this site, but i don't think i could have found it at a better time. i'm in a bit of a dilemma myself (like everyone else on SDN)...see, i'm an aussie citizen, so i have the option of applying to grad med schools here like USyd (i'm a sydney-sider). doing that will allow me to benefit from the subsidized tuition in australia (tuition will be like $6k aussie dollars a year).

but at the same time, i've been living overseas most of my life, and i did my undergrad in the US at Northwestern. i'm sitting on an acceptance right now from Columbia P&S, which for me is like a dream school! i mean, i won't know unless i actually go there, but i think i would really like being a P&S student...i've heard it's a great school both in terms of reputation and teaching quality, i love NYC, i've always wanted to go to a med school with inner city teaching hospitals, the school has awesome programs for 4th year clerkships in developing countries, etc etc etc... the downside, of course, is the cost. i'll probably have to take out USD$200k in loans, maybe more =(

i mean, money's not that important for me, so long as have enough to live and have some fun every now and then. i just don't want to dig myself into a hole that i can't get out of, i don't want to take on more pressure than i can handle.

so there you have it. advice anyone? go to the hometown med school for 1/10th the price, or go to the reputed american school and be up to my ears in debt?
 
My two cents: I know it sounds kinda like a cliche, but don't let money get in the way of your goals. Okay, yeah so 200 bucks bites the big one, but sure...other people have done it and it just means you'll spend a longer time paying it off. But it might be worth it.

However, if you're planning on practicing in Australia, you should get your degree and residency done there. If you think you might like practicing in the US for awhile, stay here. And Congrats on Columbia ;)
 
I just got my assignment letter for the clinical school.

I'm going to be at 'Central Clinical School Concord'. Can anyone tell me anything about this place?

I also got the 'Feet First' guide. It looks good, and is a little more relaxed in nature than I anticipated. (Which is refreshing.)
 
Here's my two cents. Graduating from Medical School with zero debt could give you a lot of flexibility. You could then do a residency or fellowship in New York if you are still set on that. But if you are trying to emigrate to the U.S. and you really want to settle in New York then go with Columbia.
 
i've heard that australian med schools are just pathetic. i wouldnt advise anyone to become a doc from australia. a med school at caribbean island is a better bet.
 
ummm..ok jambola..just making a post like that is what's pathetic if you have no reason/examples to support why you think that way...
 
So having offended Australian graduates. We are still waiting to be told why they are so bad. Come on a few facts would be nice

BCE
 
Guys...

Why are you offended when some barely literate individual verbally defecates all over a thread? The guy is at very least ignorant; the vast generalizations make that much obvious.

So if he doesn't know what he's talking about, just humour him like the clown he is ;)

Jambola - I was thinking about transferring to a mexican diploma mill med school. Does your girlfriend know much about that? I'm just curious, is your girlfriend human or one of the australian med cadavers? I think that might explain her rather foul view of things down there, what with it being 30 Celsius in the summer. Oh and of course, the penal colonies being without electrical refrigerators and chemicals such as formaldehyde.
 
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Hi,

I'm starting at USYD this February. I've been told that there are a lot of Canadians going down under for medical school. I've also been told that it is next to impossible to get a residency in Canada after going abroad. Where do all these Canadians go after med school then? Do they all go to the United States for residency and how hard is it to do that?

Monice
 
The school wrote back to me, ??for 2004 the faculty will only take students from specified target groups/organisations.??
 
I am an international student studying in the US. I would liek to study in Ireland or Australia. However, I am not sure how I will be able to finance myself. I don't think that there are any loans for international students out there for which you don't need cosigners, are there?
Also if I wanted to return to US for residency, would it no be really hard for me because of my non-US citizen status. Will anyone sponsor me after residency due to immigration problems.
Very very confused. Someone please advise.

-Jo
 
Originally posted by Monice
Hi,

I'm starting at USYD this February. I've been told that there are a lot of Canadians going down under for medical school. I've also been told that it is next to impossible to get a residency in Canada after going abroad. Where do all these Canadians go after med school then? Do they all go to the United States for residency and how hard is it to do that?

Monice

There must be some Canadians in Oz that look at this site. Perhaps you could respond to Monice's questions?
 
Are those the min. marks on each section of the MCAT or the ave. 1/3 of the over all score (ie 24 gives 8/8/8)
 
Also before I get to digging arround---one said on here that he got his things in in Aug.----Are US students allowed to send apps. this late for the incomeing 2003 class?
 
I don't see how you could send in an application this late considering the fact that classes have already started at most schools in Australia. As far as I know, none of the schools have starting classes in September. If I am wrong then let me know!
 
I was very confused by both the last posts, so I am going to add one more this superlong thread.

Australian universities start in autumn every year (just like North American schools), but because they are in the Southern Hemisphere that is about February. You finish the year in November or December.

I go to Flinders and they have two application deadlines, one for early decision (in April, I believe) and the other is much later, August or something. They travel and do interviews all over, sometimes as late as October. You find out pretty quickly if you are in or not since packing up and moving continent isn't easy. Although if you get waitlisted, finding out you're in may be really stressful in December! I interviewed in May and found out on May 31st, class didn't start until late January, so I had a good 7 months to live it up (or kill myself working as the case may be!).

Was that the question, or have I been studying too long?
 
I hope I can help a little to all of the recent posts to the best of my knowledge.
I've been told that there are a lot of Canadians going down under for medical school. I've also been told that it is next to impossible to get a residency in Canada after going abroad. Where do all these Canadians go after med school then? Do they all go to the United States for residency and how hard is it to do that?
I am an American at USYD but have many Canadian friends here and have learned quite a bit about their troubles getting back in. Yes, Canadians have quite a problem getting back in because they have to match into a residency after all of the Canadian med school students have match (ie you get what is left). This is a serious consideration that you should think about before you come here. Many of my friends are planning on taking the USMLE because they may have a better shot at getting into the US for a residency and then maybe moving back to Canada. It does not look very good for a direct return to Canada but nothing is impossible. Also, some of my Canadian friends have been talking about it getting easier within the upcoming years for Canadian citizens to return for residencies because they may start allowing citizens to enter the first round of the match. Maybe just a rumor but worth checking it out. But I have to say, there are 24 or so canadians in my year so their are a lot of our friends from up north coming out here.
Are those the min. marks on each section of the MCAT or the ave. 1/3 of the over all score (ie 24 gives 8/8/8)
Those are the minimum in each section. This does not mean you will get in with a 8/8/8. It just means you will get considered.
I just got my assignment letter for the clinical school.
I am also at Concord. What I don't like about it is that it is a 20 minute train ride from the main campus. The good things about it are that you can do what ever the hell you want on your clinical days. Just to clarify, one a week during the first two years of school you are at the hospital all day learning to take patient histories and perform various examinations (cardiovascular, neuro exams, etc.). As a med student at Concord, you can go anywhere in the hospital and ask anyone to teach you to do anything to patients that you feel like learning about. It is pretty cool. I was disappointed about not getting Royal Prince Alfred Hospital at first (b/c it is at the main campus) but I am actually happy about the allocation.
I know this might be a vague question but I just want to know international reputation of Aust. med schools (and I know that this is not important either).
This is a good question and I wanted to know the answer myself before I came here. A good friend mine is a residency program director at a top notch med school in the US. I asked him and a few other attendings at the hospital (friends) about their opinion of this. They said USyd was top notch and well known. They also said that I would get a comparable education there. However, I don't know about the other med schools in Australia and how they compare.
.
I know that Australians acutally do get competitive positions here in the states, but I fear that there will be a stigma attached to the American who was trained in OZ as opposed to stateside.
Anytime you leave the US to go to medical school, you will have a harder time getting residencies because it is thought that you couldn't go to school at a US school (which is often true). However, for what it is worth, there is much less stigma (from my understanding) towards grads of well-known places like AUST and UK. This is no way is meant to put down schools in other places like the carib and europe, just my opinion for what it is worth. If you have the chance to go to a US school though, I would have to say that you should stay there. I say this because you will not have to deal with the hardships of getting a residency. You can always travel later (fellowships, etc).
If you want to know more about Concord, check this out:
I am Concord and I didn't even know about that site. Pretty funny.
i've heard that australian med schools are just pathetic. i wouldnt advise anyone to become a doc from australia. a med school at caribbean island is a better bet.
And finally, I would like to respond to this. I know some medical residents from the carribean. They are great docs and I am sure they know their ****. BUT... I would love to know a single reason why the carib would be a better choice than Australia. USYD students have consistently scored higher on the USMLE than US grads (avg scores yearly). We get clinical experience starting the first week (!!!). Furthermore, how would you even know if a Aussie school were pathetic? I don't really know what your story is but I checked out some of your posts and you seem to just be some random guy who trys to push some USMLE study product. And you claim to be surgical resident or something like that, so it seems irrelevent that you are even on this thread. That's cool. You can pimp your product all you want but you should make your posts more believable. Good luck on you sales.

I hope this helped answer some questions. For those of you coming to AUST, you'll have a blast and become a great doc in the meantime.
 
Hello trkd.

I'm a student who is going to apply to USYD this year. I would like to know what sort of MCAT score I have to get to be eligible for the scholarship (I know 8 out of 40 international students get the scholarship in USYD). If you know anyone who got the scholarship (or may be yourself), would it be ok to tell me his/her MCAT score so that I can get the general idea whether I have to take MCAT twice or only once in this year?

Thank you.

-J. S.
 
crackerj:
I know someone who got the scholarship and he had a 32. I don't know what the breakdown was though. This is a small sample size so I don't know if this is low or high for the scholarship people. The thing is, these people just found out that they got the scholarships this past week. So don't bet on knowing until after you are into about the 5th week. Good luck.
 
Hi Everyone!

I've just found this forum, and I'm glad there are other AUS meds students out there! I have a few questions for USYD students... I was accepted to USYD last year and deferred my acceptance to finish my degree and will be starting in 2004.

My interview experience was stellar; I travelled to NY in Sept 2002, met with 2 very friendly interviewers and was told unofficially after my interview that I would be accepted for 2003. :D Can't wait to go down under; I'm a CDN with the travel bug.

Just a few questions regarding the program:

1. Is there a website or info regarding specialty training in AUS after graduation?
2. Is the internship year part of residency?
3. Do most graduates do their training abroad?
4. Any graduates successfully do their residencies in Canada?
5. Do most international students live on campus 1st year? Any feedback on the new sydney university village?

Thanks!
 
cdn2004:

1. Is there a website or info regarding specialty training in AUS after graduation?

Not that I know of but there very well may be. I assume that CDN in your post means Canadian and I found the following site for Canadian IMGs if you are interested. I don't know if it is any good though. http://www.img.org.uk/

2. Is the internship year part of residency?

No. I will explain this because none of us understood this for a long time. This is how it works in AUS. After graduating med school, you do an internship year. You are pretty much guaranteed a internship spot by your school. After this year, you become a resident. This is not what we in America and Canada call a resident though. The AUS resident does a little bit of every specialty for a couple years until they figure out the specialty they want to go into. They are "residents" for as long as they want to be. When they decide on a specialty, they will apply for that specialty and take an exam specific to that specialty to enter the specialty. Once they enter specialty training, they are called "registrars". This is the equivalent of what we know as residents (those training within a specialty). After a few years of this (depending on the specialty), they will be a specialist (or an "attending physician" as we call them in the US). Also, recently, a law or something was passed giving all the international students at USYD the ability to do an internship year (and maybe 2 years) in AUS. I don't know if this applies to international students at all AUS schools though. Maybe

3. Do most graduates do their training abroad?

I think most or maybe close to all international students go back to their own countries or the US to do residencies. I haven't heard of many staying unless they apply for citizenship here in which case you may be able to stay. Not sure.

4. Any graduates successfully do their residencies in Canada?

Again, not sure. You might want to see what it says on the website I gave out earlier in the post to see if it is on the message boards there. I think it is terribly tough but possible. From what I hear, you may get one in a less than desirable area or program since you get what is left after the match.

5. Do most international students live on campus 1st year? Any feedback on the new sydney university village?

I know a couple people who live there and like it quite a bit. It looks really nice and it is VERY close to where classes are. You can finder cheaper places than that, if that is an issue. However, I pay the same amount as living in the village and I don't find it to be too outrageous of a price. I would definitely set it up ahead of time though. They, and some other popular places, run out of availability. I live at the international house and I think it also ran out of spots for those looking to get a place after arriving hear. However, if you plan on moving here and then finding a place, international house (which is on campus and can be found through the university site) offers temporary housing. So many people live here while looking for a place to live in the beginning of the year. This is something you might do if you want to live off of campus. Newtown is very close and has nice places. Redfern is not that great of a place but cheaper (not the best place in be, I assure you). Glebe is also close but I think it may be more expensive out there. You could also go all out and live at the beach (sometimes for pretty cheap). You would be looking at a 30-45 minute commute by bus (directly from beach to school) from Coogee Beach for example. I hope this helps. Hopefully some other students and Canadian IMGs will answer so you can get a couple of opinions.
 
Thanks trkd!

A few more questions....

1. How long in advance did you set up accomodations?

2. Any opportunities for IMGs to work during the school year? Too hectic to have a job?

3. Living at the beach - SERIOUSLY? :cool: Do many students commute? How much is the cost of living down there and the cost to commute?

4. Better to choose a place closer to the hospitals? Closer to classes in first year?

5. Are you planning to stay in AUS to do your "residency" training? Are the internship years funded? even for IMG students? enough to live on?

Thanks everyone again for your input!
 
cdn2004:

I set up my apartment when i found out that i got in but honestly,i don't remember when it was. probably october or something. I have friends that set up a home-stay (you stay with a family) for a few weeks and found a place on the fly. They were a bit more limited in places they found though. You might end up getting a place that is more expensive or not where you want because many places are filled up. I think in the previous post I mentioned that you can get temporary housing at International House while you are waiting to find a place. You can also do this at Women's College (which I presume applies only to women). Other colleges (student residency areas on campus are called "colleges") may also have this service available. There are also some places to stay such as Wesley College which is directly across from the lecture halls (as is Women's College) and are large faternity house type places (co-ed I think). Definite party spot I hear but people into that scene love it. To get an idea of where most of your classes will be on a school map, Bosch and Blackburn are the two main lecture buildings.

You can work part-time, particulary during your first year. I was quite suprised by this but people do it quite well. I can see how it would not be too difficult, seeing that we have a lot of extra time. I personally choose not to. I don't know of any americans or canadians that are either. Maybe it is our mindset but I don't plan on working at any point during med school but it can be done. There are some visa restrictions but otherwise you can work about 15 hours or so (according to the visa).

I really don't know how many people commute but it is not a rare thing. You just have to be down with the idea of commuting. Some of my friends love living at the beach and don't mind the commute. It can definitely be done but not for me. I am anti-commute. I like walking to class in 8-10 minutes. You just have to be able to handle getting you work done. I have friends who do this by staying on campus and reading in the library until 5 or 6, then going home where they know they won't get as much done. Cost of living isn't quite bad but that is relative to what I am used to which is quite high. You can find places to stay with other people around AU$140 a week. Living by yourself close to school can cost AU$233 (International House and Sydney University Village- both happened to be furnished) to around AU$300 a week for some nicer apartments. Divide these by about 1.6 to get an idea of how many US dollars. All rent here is quoted per week, by the way. Bus and train fare to most places is AU$1.50 to AU$6 (if you live way out there, possibly for the beach commutes) each way. I find food to be pretty similar in price to the US. Nothing about cost of living has suprised me except for phone calls. Calling from home, you have to pay for everything. Calling locally, you have to pay. Calling cell phones, you have to pay a LOT. And EVERYONE here has a cell phone. I am not kidding about this either. This is much worse than the US. EV-ER-Y-ONE has a cell. You will have one too. Promise. It is hell to even find a pay phone here. Mark my words. Ironically, calling the US and Canada is cheaper than making local calls here. You get a phone card and make calls around 2.5-3 US cents per minute to call back home. Go figure.

About living near the hospital thing, many people do this during the 3rd and 4th years. You don't need to worry about that now. That should not be a concern yet because you are only there 1 day per week. At first, it is up to you where you live. Close to school is my choice but many others do otherwise. For example, many people live a short bus ride away. Many people also live in Newtown or Glebe which is walkable depending on what part of each neighborhood you are in. If you are looking to move in with other, random students, you could probably get away with setting up a place to stay for a few weeks and finding somewhere when you get here. If you want to be more choosy like me (I wanted to have my own place and VERY close to campus), I would do it before you get here.

As to residency, I will definitely be coming back to America. That is really the only place I really would want to do it. Maybe because I love America and the hospital system is the way I want to learn for when I am practicing. Also, my friends and family are there. Furthermore, I am not doing an internship here just to have to do another internship year in the US (very likely). Call me crazy but I am anxious to get to residency. PLUS, the US is my home :love: . Having said that, some people may choose to do an internship year here. You do get paid the same as Aussies. One reason to do this is that it is incredible money (so I here). My understanding is that you can make AU$80,000 or so dollars for a 60-80 hr work week because they pay the interns time and a half for overtime here. Some people do this year just to make some quick cash before going back. This is just what I hear though. I would confirm this before you bank on it. As for me, time is more important than money. I figure, I will get out of residency one year earlier and blow that figure out of the water. But if you need quick cash, go for it.
 
Hey CDN'04, if you dont mind me asking, what was your mcat score? GPA? And if competitive, why Australia and not the U.S.?
 
trkd,

thanks for the advice. I too am an anti-commute type of person... I think I'll start looking for on-campus housing or just close by, as I can get a regular workout in when I wake up, roll out of bed and have to sprint to class ;)

Another question - can first year students do electives during their spare time?

Elkewlbeanz,

My MCAT score was 29S, GPA 3.5 ... I didn't apply to the States because as a CDN citizen, it would be quite costly to go to school there (cheaper in AUS). I foud myself drawn to the lifestyle and culture in AUS, plus the education at USYD was appealing; and I've always wanted to study abroad.
 
Hey trkd,

Does USyd have any programs with US Schools for fourth year electives? Will you have to set these up on your own, or is the school helpful in doing so?

Also, how does the February to Nov/Dec schedule affect participation in the match? Do you usually have to wait a year or so after graduating to enter?

Thanks for all your insight!

Funkmasta
 
cdn2004:
The problem with doing electives in your spare time is that electives are generally for people who have finished their core electives (towards the end of 3rd year). I have never heard of a hospital/med program excepting med students for electives prior to this. This really doesn't have much to do with the med program here. You are allowed to do whatever the hell you want during the breaks. By the way, I would like to warn you about the "culture and lifestyle" that you are drawn to in AUS. I was surprised to find that it is really not terribly different. And the people are not a whole lot different. I expected to come out here and the people were the friendliest in the world and everything would be better overall. Well, it's not. It is suprisingly similar. This is not a bad thing. I just thought it would be more of a culture shock than it was.

funkmasta:
I do not know of any established partnerships between here and schools in the US. You set them up on your own. However, this is not very difficult. If you go to a given medical school website in the US, you will find info about how to apply for an elective/externship or whatever they choose to call it. Sometimes this info is found on specific department websites, such as surgery or anesthesiology. You apply to them directly. It is pretty much the same process as if you were in the states I think. As far as the match goes, The schedule doesn't seem to be a problem but here is the thing. You finish a couple months before US schools so you are "sitting out" that period of time but you go into the match on time, even early. So if you started USYD this past February, you would be entering the match with people who are going to start US med schools this upcoming August/September. This is all true if you take Step 1 and 2 in time to be qualified.

By the way, someone was asking me about the international student scholarships in an earlier post. I found out that the lowest MCAT (the scholarships are given based on high MCATs) that received a scholarship this year was 32. This was given to 10-12 folks, I think.
 
What possibilities are there to get into a residency program in Australia (surgery)? :rolleyes:
 
asavil:
You can do 2 post-grad years here (internship and 1 residency year) in AUS. I say "resident" year in the way it is used in AUS (refer to earlier post, it is not the same as US residents, it is prior to entering a specialty). I just called the postgraduate medical council to ask them about entering a specialty and becoming a registrar (this is referring the the term "resident" as it is used in the US, after you enter your specialty). They were not sure because they are no longer the ones that handle it but they gave me the impression that it depended on whether a hospital sponsered me. I assume that this would be similar to sponsorship of foreign residents in the US. I guess it depends on the hospital. I don't know how easy it is to get. That's all I could find out thus far. I will post again if I find out more.
 
The answer to asavil's question depends on WHERE he or she TRAINED and WHERE he or she is WILLING TO TRAIN.

For example, in order from most likely to be offered a post-graduate position to least:

Australian citizen, trained in-state for state position (trained in NSW looking for NSW position)

Australian citizen, trained out of state for state position (ie, trained in NSW, looking for SA position - some variability here as some states are less competitive than others)

Non-Aussie citizen, trained in state at Aussie school

Non-Aussie citizen, trained out of state at Aussie school

Non-Aussie citizen, non-Aussie trained medical school grad (ie, graduated from medical school in another country)

The opportunities to obtain post-graduate training will vary from state to state and in generally, do not abound. Most who have tried to emigrate or obtain post-grad training after medical school elsewhere have been disappointed. In general, there are not enough training spots for Aussie citizens, especially in more competitive programs.
 
Originally posted by Kimberli Cox
The answer to asavil's question depends on WHERE he or she TRAINED and WHERE he or she is WILLING TO TRAIN.

For example, in order from most likely to be offered a post-graduate position to least:

Any idea where an NZ citizen trained at an NZ university sits on that scale kimberli? Are we the same as 'australian citizens trained out of state?' *hopes*

Any idea how respected NZ medical schools are in Australia?

;)
 
Purifyer:
Not absolutely sure about the NZ citizen business but I would put money on you being considered the same as Aussie citizen because NZ citizens are not considered "international" students here (at USYD). I think there is some agreement. However, you may be considered "out of state" trained. Just a semi-educated guess. Kimberli may know more.
 
There are many NZ docs in Brisbane. My first couple of clinical coaches all were UofAuckland grads. I'm assuming you go to UofOtago Purifyer? I don't know how hard it was for them to get training positions here, but I could ask. In terms of how they're viewed, exactly the same (the education part that is, the kiwi part's a whole different story ;) )
 
Thanks everybody for the advice so far.

I'm a US citizen, went to a US undergrad and don't have any real connection to Oz other than friends who have lived or attended school there. Would that be a problem in applying to med schools?

Also, I want to make sure I have the timeline correct. If I apply (second time around) to a bunch of US med schools this year for entry in August 2004, can I wait until next May to worry about applying to Australia for entry in January 2005? I'd like to see if I get in here before thinking about Aussie schools.
 
I'm hoping some of the students can answer this.
I'm considering U of Mel, U of Queen and USyd. Since acer allows only 2 schools to be listed, I was thinking of applying to USyd with the direct app and use acer for the 2 that don't have direct applications. Does this work out? Or do the schools or acer discourage this methods of applying.

Secondly,

Pill Counter's first post mentioned the in Usyd, after 2 year theres an exam, if you fail your done. That seems rather odd. Could someone provide me with additional details? For example, do students mostly pass? is there a cut off curve/quota etc.

Thanks
 
If the school offers direct application, use it, if not, use ACER. There is no encouragement or discouragement one way or another.
Regarding USyd's examination process, I'll defer to someone who goes there.
 
wfl4:
I am a USYD student. I will explain this 2nd year exam business the best I can. My understanding is that it is based on the British system for med school exams, seeing that AUS is a British colonized country and all. You have exams at various points throughout the first two years that are "formative" exams(this somehow, apparently means that they don't count but will give you an idea of how you are doing). So you can blow off these formative if you want but most people I know take them seriously because they are the only measure you have. So you take these exams but for some reason you do poorly, you are not held back but you know that your ass need to shape up. Also, I think they will start to help you out at this point so that you can get to where you need to be. At the end of the 2nd year, you have "summative" exams. These DO count and you must pass them to continue to 3rd year. I was just looking through the course website that is specific to us (only we have access) and my understanding is that if you don't pass the summative, then you have to repeat some of the courses. I believe this similar to US schools. So it doesn't seem much different in that sense. But it is a bit strange not to have exams ever few weeks or whatever. The way I see it, there have been docs coming out of the UK and AUS under this system for a LONG time, so I guess I won't be the one who says it won't work. I hope this answers your question.

klp14: This would be my recommendation for applying to Aussie and US schools. Apply to Aussie AND US schools whenever they start taking applications (May/June). Since Aussie schools start in February, their process is much faster. You will interview in September or October, if you interview. If you get in, you have a spot to go in February if US is what you want but doesn't work out. So having applied to US school June 1st, you will likely have some idea of how your apps are going hopefully by November. You see if you are getting interviews or rejections. If you application is not going to go far, I assume you will have most rejection letters by February. If this is the case, then you jump on a plane and head down under. If you get interview, having applied June 1st (of course), you will likely have interviews earlier, like November-January. After interviews, if you get the big, fat "NO", then you are still good for the February start date. With this plan, you will be saving a year and still getting your shot at the US schools. But VERY IMPORTANT: if you get into USYD, make sure you pay the deposit of 10% of one semesters tuition to hold your spot until you figure out if you are coming. In other words, you accept the spot and do the minimum things to keep your spot. You don't have to pay tuition until after school starts. But you must pay the 10% and some additional fees. This is a small price to pay to save yourself a year. So there it is, the master plan to med school. :laugh: Good luck to all!
 
Hey trkd,

If the tests don't count for anything, am I correct in assuming that you don't get grades for any of your courses? That's sketchy...but strangely comforting! Do you have any idea what percentage of people don't pass the summative exam? Thanks!
 
Hey funkmasta,
I will try to shed some light on the situation. It is a problem-based learning (PBL) course, so there are not really "courses" to get grades in. Instead, you have small group sessions in which you are presented problems in the form of patients presenting with whatever illness/symptoms. Throughout the week, your lectures are all focused on that problem and the related issues. The problems are all related within a given "block" (respiratory, musculoskeletal, drugs/alcohol, etc.). For example, you are presented with a person 40 year old male presenting with sharp pains in his whereever and has a history of whatever. So you get this story and throughout the week you find out about what tests to order, what the results were, what the treatment is, etc. To figure these things out, you are given these written learning topics from which you base your reading and the lectures of that week focus on the problem. For example, you will have lectures from pharm people on the pharmacological aspects of the prescribed drugs and cardiology professors give lectures on different aspects of the case. Then you will have someone talk about the role of alcohol/smoking in heart disease if that had something to do with it. You will probably also have a pathology session with slides of heart disease and how to look at all that. So, by the end of the week, you finish the case from beginning to end as if this person had come into your office. This is what I mean when I say there is no courses. We have all the courses at once but in an organized fashion and with set "blocks" that cover different body systems or areas of study. This PBL format was adapted about 5 or so years ago from one of the Canadian Universities, McMaster I THINK :confused: . I believe there are a couple US programs that have started this as well. It was different but not hard to adjust to. However, it definitely is based on self-directed learning. You have to take initiative and do what is necessary to learn. It is not a program that you should join if you have a motivation problem. You will spend two years slacking off and not learn a thing if you need someone to hold your hand through med school.

So on to the issue of the summative exams. I went and talked to the woman that knows everything about the program (Jill Gordon). She said that the pass rate is always well over 95%, usually at about 98%. THEN, if you fail, you are given a second chance with another test of similar format but different questions of course, to insure that your failing was not due to events of that particular day. If you fail this one, then you will have to repeat your second year after some serious intervention. So no, you are not just booted out. So now you know, and you know what they say about that.... it's half the battle :D .
 
Hi. I know this is more of a grad med school then an undergrad med school topic but I thought since we are all talking about australia's med school, I might as well post my thread here.

I was wondering if you can tell me more about UWA as in how it's reputation is and how's perth as a place to live in.

Besides that..,is there any tips on how to get pass australia's interview?
 
Hey Windcharm,

Your in luck, because I GO TO UWA!!! Im not a med student there...yet. I am fourth yr Bachelor of Health Science. But I am applying to med at UWA for entry next yr.

The University of Western Australia is a GREAT place to study! I can't say enough good things about it. It is the most prestigious university in Western Australia, and one of the most prestigious in Australia as it is part of 'The Group of Eight'. The Group of Eight is a coalition of Australia's leading universities. They undertake 70% of all research conducted in Australian universities. They also produce between 60% and 80% of internationally recognised Australian research publications in every field of research.

Im sure you've visited the Website www.uwa.edu.au

UWA has 12000 students and 2500 staff. It is complete with cafes, libraries, sporting facilities, an art gallery, museums and a range of shops. UWA is one of the most beautiful campus' in Australia. It is quite traditional in its set up, as it is made up of different faculties, for example Arts, Science, Engineering, Law, Medicine, Economics etc. Many students from other unis in WA, think it is snobby, but it really isn't, it just has that perception because you need quite high marks to get acceptance. Eg lowest overall entry score for UWA was 84 TER I think, where it is usually around 69-72 for the other uni's. UWA is the only uni in WA that has a medical course. However there is talk of two graduate programs starting up within the next two years, one at UWA and the other at Notra Dame (a private uni).

Um what else....there are 5 residential colleges to live at.

The medical school has roughly 99 places for school leavers, 21 places for uni student/mature entry and 10 places for full fee paying international students. It has a new medical library and new ctec building [center for medical and surgical skills] you can find info at http://www.ctec.uwa.edu.au/

Now about Perth. Perth is also a GREAT place to live. It is located on the south-west coast of Australian with the Indian Ocean at its shores. "Situated along the banks of the Swan River and overlooked by Kings Park, a 400-hectare area of virgin bushland, Perth?s picturesque setting makes it an ideal study environment. Australia?s fourth largest city, Perth has succeeded in providing the perfect environment for a relaxed and healthy lifestyle, whilst maintaining its status as a sophisticated and modern city. Perth?s clean and well planned central business district is located only 5km from the UWA campus. " haha thats off UWA website

You can find more at http://www.international.uwa.edu.au/undergraduate/welcome

Ok thats enough :) I hope I helped you out a bit. I wasn't too sure what info you were after, so if you have any other questions feel free to ask.

Jenni
 
All right! Thx for the detailed description..It seems like a wonderful place to study and live in.

But I was still wondering if anyone can help me on the med faculty part..gotta prepare for the interview...hellish
 
Hey,

sorry I forgot about your last question.

No one knows much about the interviews because you have to sign a form stating you won't tell anyone about it after.

But there are some common elements. Most schools have 2-3 interviewers, UWA has 2. One is a faculty member, the other person is usually someone from the community. They don't ask personal questions so much, it is instead questions like what would you do if in this situation blah blah...You should be up to date on health issues concerning the city or country you are in.
For example, in WA it is the shortage of doctors in rural communties, the lack of bulk-billing among doctors, aborginal health etc, you can find these issues on government websites. Try www.health.gov.au At the end of the interview I believe you have a few minutes to talk about anything you think may have been left out, eg some fantastic research you undertook.

I can recommend a great course you may want to purchase.
visit: http://www.medical-entrance.com.au/html/courses.html

You would only need to purchase Interview Master for UMAT at A$85 only if you are apply to undergrad schools, they are the 5/6 year programs. If you are applying to graduate programs (4 years) as well then you would also need to purchase Interview Master for GAMSAT at A$85. The different programs (grad and undergrad) test different things.

Jen
 
Originally posted by Jenni
Hi

The four uni's you listed are the only four graduate med programs in Australia, these are usually 4 yrs long, except Melb that is 4 1/2. There are many more undergrad med programs that have places set aside for international students. These programs are usually 6 years long. Im not sure how you apply for them though, probably through the university directly...or I think ACER has info on undergrad programs too.

For the 6th year programmes, you apply to the universities directly, as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers,
lizz
 
Originally posted by The Pill Counter
I'm a visible minority Canadian at UQ and have had the opportunity to travel through a lot of the country. I can't speak for specific events that may have occurred in Adelaide, but I haven't once encountered any instance of racism or anti-North American bias (nor have the three Americans), from faculty, school admissions, hospital staff or patients.
USMedStudent's comments seem very arrogant and self-important, the Aussies speak with an Aussie accent, how dare they! You should have better researched the school before you chose it. OSCE's from first year are the norm, in fact, I think it has helped us get integrated into the hospital system faster.
Regarding One Nation, come on! Like we don't have stupid fringe groups like that back in North America! I think you're comments are way over the top.

I totally agree with Pill Counter. Perhaps USMEDStudent just had some really bad experiences but I cant say the same for myself. I am an Asian medical student from MAlaysia and I have been enjoying my medical course in Australia.

Cheers,lizz
 
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