August 2020 - CBSE

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Dani27 said:
So do you guys think its enough time for dedicated study to study from now until sept 14th - test date.
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If you are applying this year and you have no choice, then yes it’s enough time. It’s not ideal, and I did poorly with only 3 months. But I’ve seen people do well in that time.

If you are going to be a D3 then I wouldn’t sweat whether or not it’s enough time. I’d just say to give topics the appropriate time. Don’t do a cursory glance at every topic just to get through it in time. You’ll just end up with a poor grasp of everything and be nearly starting from scratch when you go to take it again in February.I would definitely work hard, lots of hours per day, and try to get through everything. But if I found out I needed more time then I’d slow down and do what it takes, regardless if it puts me in a good place for September. You’ll be in such a better position for February if you are coming off 3 months of quality study, then 3 months of frantic shallow study.
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Ragnarock said:
Thanks for the response. So I don't usually use flash cards to study, but I was wondering what your thoughts were on me starting flash cards with my current time frame (exam is on september 12th).

Also, our last exam & final are in two weeks all while running 8am-5pm make-up labs everyday. How should I be feeling about putting off studying for the CBSE until I at least finish my dental exams? Even after a full day of lab + a few hours of didactic studying, i still feel a bit disappointed in myself for not investing time into the CBSE.
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They might be worth it, but my opinion would be you don't have time to go through lots of different decks. For example, you may run out of time to do a sketchy pharm, micro, and pathoma deck. That might be pushing it.

Maybe give anki a try for a week or so and see what you think. I think a great place to start would be the Pepper deck for sketchy micro. Its only around 1000 cards, and Sketchy micro is only 14 hours. Do 2 hours a day, cards included, and you are done with it in a week. This stuff is super high yield, so you won't be wasting your time experimenting on a study technique. After a week, reevaluate if you like them and consider add 1 more deck - I'd suggest the first 3 chapters of pathoma with the Zanki deck. Get through it in 2-3 days - I'm guessing here but I think it was like 400 ish cards but they are extremely well made and go by really quick. At that point, if you are in the flow of flash cards and liking them you maybe, maybe, could add sketchy pharm.

The hard part isn't the number of new cards you do per day, its the number of reviews that pile up. So cramming LOTS of cards in a short amount of time can get overwhelming. But doing the sketchy micro deck should be a safe place to start.

**This is all my opinion, don't do it if you have other things that work for you. One of the things I dislike about the impersonal nature of student doctor/reddit/etc. is its easy to assume people are experts when they may actually know nothing. So take it with a grain of salt and stay true to how you know you learn best. That said, I think everyone should at least try sketchy + anki. Its been magic for me and many others.
 
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desertrat12 said:
If you are applying this year and you have no choice, then yes it’s enough time. It’s not ideal, and I did poorly with only 3 months. But I’ve seen people do well in that time.

If you are going to be a D3 then I wouldn’t sweat whether or not it’s enough time. I’d just say to give topics the appropriate time. Don’t do a cursory glance at every topic just to get through it in time. You’ll just end up with a poor grasp of everything and be nearly starting from scratch when you go to take it again in February.I would definitely work hard, lots of hours per day, and try to get through everything. But if I found out I needed more time then I’d slow down and do what it takes, regardless if it puts me in a good place for September. You’ll be in such a better position for February if you are coming off 3 months of quality study, then 3 months of frantic shallow study.
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Thank you, yeah Im applying this year and pretty much have no choice.
 
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Takin a nbme right now to gauge where everyone is at wouldn’t be a bad idea right now.
 
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Jk4teeth said:
Curious if anyone has heard anything about programs extended their deadlines as to accommodate the late CBSE score release? Contacted a few programs, and didn't hear back yet.
What do you think will happen? Is there a good chance there will be modifications to the deadlines? I'm imagining since most interviews will be done online anyways, it wouldn't be hard for them to interview at later dates?
Would maybe submitting without the CBSE be okay, then we can provide it once we get it, work?
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I'm not applying this cycle but I was told by an attending at a 6-year that a ton of programs don't know which I know isn't the answer you're looking for but that just kind of seems to be the case. The attending did say that programs that offered interviews on a rolling basis historically will most likely continue to do so as was the case with their program in particular. If you have a score, you could still apply and notify programs that you have a score you expect to be higher coming and hopefully won't get screened out in the first wave. I've been told that an application without a CBSE is considered incomplete from various attendings and won't be considered in those programs with rolling interviews and would effectively do nothing for you. Take what I say with a grain of salt but I hope you find this useful and best of luck.
 
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EatmydustEddie said:
Has anyone heard any updates regarding extending application deadlines?
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I noticed a couple programs on PASS that I am interested in have pushed back their deadlines a little, but not enough to accomodate for an October scores release. Im guessing each program will handle it differently
 
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Does anyone know where we indicate on the PASS app where we tell programs that we are planning on taking the CBSE in august?
 
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Are you guys submitting PASS then sending CBSE scores directly to programs as they are available?
 
Banjogo said:
Are you guys submitting PASS then sending CBSE scores directly to programs as they are available?
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I was thinking of submitting PASS to programs with the earlier deadlines, but waiting until after scores are released to submit to programs that have deadlines after the scores will get released. Idk if this is the best strategy or not.
 
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ThirdMolarz said:
Have you done a practice test yet? I haven't
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I have not. A test will tell me what I don't know and I know what I do and don't know based on my UWorld strengths/weaknesses. Focusing on UWorld & keeping up with my Anki reviews. Carved out 1 day for USAW2 a few days before my test date since it has pretty good predictive value.
 
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CornFedBeef21 said:
I have not. A test will tell me what I don't know and I know what I do and don't know based on my UWorld strengths/weaknesses. Focusing on UWorld & keeping up with my Anki reviews. Carved out 1 day for USAW2 a few days before my test date since it has pretty good predictive value.
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Uworld questions Or their self assessments will not resemble the nbme questions. They test the same topics but the question types are very different. I definitely recommend at least getting familiar with how they ask the questions. Nbme questions are very similar to the cbse.
 
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Likkriue said:
Uworld questions Or their self assessments will not resemble the nbme questions. They test the same topics but the question types are very different. I definitely recommend at least getting familiar with how they ask the questions. Nbme questions are very similar to the cbse.
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Thanks for the heads up. From what I understand - UWorld is filled with little breadcrumbs, but the NBME forces you to look at the answer choices and work your way backwards or just expects you to make the leap in making a connection. Is that a pretty accurate?

What NBMEs would you recommend taking?
 
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CornFedBeef21 said:
Thanks for the heads up. From what I understand - UWorld is filled with little breadcrumbs, but the NBME forces you to look at the answer choices and work your way backwards or just expects you to make the leap in making a connection. Is that a pretty accurate?

What NBMEs would you recommend taking?
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15, 16, 18, 20 have been historically good, 18 people save for their last. Some people that took the February test say that 21-24 more closely resembled the content distribution of the actual test.
 
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CornFedBeef21 said:
Thanks for the heads up. From what I understand - UWorld is filled with little breadcrumbs, but the NBME forces you to look at the answer choices and work your way backwards or just expects you to make the leap in making a connection. Is that a pretty accurate?

What NBMEs would you recommend taking?
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Yes thats pretty accurate, a lot of nbme/cbse questions are you either know it or you don’t. Uworld tends to have a lot of buzzwords that the nbmes do not have.
 
Would it be worth it to read over the NBMEs I've already done sometime before the exam?
 
CBSE has me stressed, but that's nothing new. I feel like as I cram material in one ear, some falls out the other. It doesn't help that we were one of the first schools to reopen, so post-clinic hours studying has been a butt kicker.

As far as PASS goes, I was under the impression that we couldn't submit until scores were in. Am I wrong on that?
 
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It varies by program I believe. The logic behind it is that once you submit it’s very difficult to change things up. And programs wouldn’t even look your application without a cbse score, so why even bother submitting.
 
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Likkriue said:
It varies by program I believe. The logic behind it is that once you submit it’s very difficult to change things up. And programs wouldn’t even look your application without a cbse score, so why even bother submitting.
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That was my thought process as well. I don't want to risk being thrown in the "incomplete" pile and not dug back out later.
 
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CornFedBeef21 said:
I have not. A test will tell me what I don't know and I know what I do and don't know based on my UWorld strengths/weaknesses. Focusing on UWorld & keeping up with my Anki reviews. Carved out 1 day for USAW2 a few days before my test date since it has pretty good predictive value.
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Both the UWSAs were way easier than the February CBSE, imo
 
CarcinomaInSitu said:
15, 16, 18, 20 have been historically good, 18 people save for their last. Some people that took the February test say that 21-24 more closely resembled the content distribution of the actual test.
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Can't speak to 15 or 16... but I thought 18 was on par with the UWSAs in terms of difficulty (18 and the UWSAs being on the easier side). In my experience, forms 20-24 were much more predictive.
 
caffeine jitters said:
Can't speak to 15 or 16... but I thought 18 was on par with the UWSAs in terms of difficulty (18 and the UWSAs being on the easier side). In my experience, forms 20-24 were much more predictive.
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I will probably do 18 since I read that has good predictive value, and everyone over in r/Step1 seems to think 24 is pretty good too. Can't wait to be done with this. Take the exam on August 21st, and then I start up a 3 week externship. Only thing getting me through these long days.
 
noodles9 said:
CBSE has me stressed, but that's nothing new. I feel like as I cram material in one ear, some falls out the other. It doesn't help that we were one of the first schools to reopen, so post-clinic hours studying has been a butt kicker.

As far as PASS goes, I was under the impression that we couldn't submit until scores were in. Am I wrong on that?
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Is your school still graded, if it was? Some became pass/fail. Which would be nice to relieve some stress
 
ThirdMolarz said:
Is your school still graded, if it was? Some became pass/fail. Which would be nice to relieve some stress
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We did not shift to pass/fail. Our summer break was also cancelled in order to catch up on clinic time - that's ~6 weeks of dedicated study time out the window. Can only roll with the punches at this point!
 
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noodles9 said:
We did not shift to pass/fail. Our summer break was also cancelled in order to catch up on clinic time - that's ~6 weeks of dedicated study time out the window. Can only roll with the punches at this point!
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shoot man, good luck
 
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Then is it a good idea to submit the application with my old (very low) score but let the programs know I will be retaking and send them the new score on OCT 1st??
 
Dani27 said:
Then is it a good idea to submit the application with my old (very low) score but let the programs know I will be retaking and send them the new score on OCT 1st??
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I think for programs that have their deadlines prior to October 1st, you're going to have to submit your application with the low score, since you have no other choice. But for the programs with deadlines after October 1st, I'd probably hold off on submitting until the new scores get released.
 
CubsFan44 said:
I think for programs that have their deadlines prior to October 1st, you're going to have to submit your application with the low score, since you have no other choice. But for the programs with deadlines after October 1st, I'd probably hold off on submitting until the new scores get released.
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Thank you!
I had no idea you could submit to certain programs first and then to others?
I thought when you hit submit app it sends your app to ALL of your chosen programs
 
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Dani27 said:
Thank you!
I had no idea you could submit to certain programs first and then to others?
I thought when you hit submit app it sends your app to your chosen programs
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I'm not 100% positive on this, but since you have to upload your score under each program individually, I'd assume this would be possible. PASS won't allow you to submit to programs that you haven't uploaded your score report to anyway, so I guess just don't upload your information to those programs with later deadlines until after the new scores are released. That's my plan at least.

If anyone else has better ideas, I'd appreciate feedback as well.
 
Dani27 said:
Then is it a good idea to submit the application with my old (very low) score but let the programs know I will be retaking and send them the new score on OCT 1st??
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Not sure if you signed up for the AAOMS Residency Fair tonight, but these are good questions for those individual programs who did not change their deadline.
 
Big takeaways from tonight's OMFS Speed Dating session after talking to about 20 6-years and some fancy 4-years:

1. For competitive 6 years and 4 years with nice geography (looking at you California), 70+ is where its at. 80+ and you guarantee interviews. 90+ and they start to wonder if you're insanely smart or on the spectrum. A program director at a big name 6-year emphasized that higher CBSE doesn't equal better resident, just that they won't struggle as much in medical school and that most schools look at applications holistically.

2. Most programs have shut down externships till 2021 with some even further out. This is obviously up to change based on COVID19 status and programs.

3. For 6 years, it seems that most medical schools don't have a "hard cutoff" for undergrad GPA. If the CBSE is solid, then that is usually enough to make up for any lackluster undergrad. Maryland has listed a 3.5 requirement however.

4. The programs I spoke to said september CBSEs will be fine to upload though you should obviously check for yourself if you're applying this cycle for specific pre-Oct 1 programs.
 
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CarcinomaInSitu said:
Big takeaways from tonight's OMFS Speed Dating session after talking to about 20 6-years and some fancy 4-years:

1. For competitive 6 years and 4 years with nice geography (looking at you California), 70+ is where its at. 80+ and you guarantee interviews. 90+ and they start to wonder if you're insanely smart or on the spectrum. A program director at a big name 6-year emphasized that higher CBSE doesn't equal better resident, just that they won't struggle as much in medical school and that most schools look at applications holistically.

2. Most programs have shut down externships till 2021 with some even further out. This is obviously up to change based on COVID19 status and programs.

3. For 6 years, it seems that most medical schools don't have a "hard cutoff" for undergrad GPA. If the CBSE is solid, then that is usually enough to make up for any lackluster undergrad. Maryland has listed a 3.5 requirement however.

4. The programs I spoke to said september CBSEs will be fine to upload though you should obviously check for yourself if you're applying this cycle for specific pre-Oct 1 programs.
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What are those 'fancy' 4-year programs?
 
Ivy.ch said:
Is highland a big cancer program?
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From what I understand, Highland is in the process of recruiting 4 fellowship trained, dual degree'd surgeons.
3 out of 4 of them are Head and neck trained.
 
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Sforzando said:
From what I understand, Highland is in the process of recruiting 4 fellowship trained, dual degree'd surgeons.
3 out of 4 of them are Head and neck trained.
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That's awesome. However, if someone is interested in pursuing a H&N Cancer fellowship after all of that great experience, is there any value in going to a 4 year program? Genuine question, not bashing on 4 years. I was just under the (probably wrong) assumption that you really limit your chances at a fellowship with a single degree program.
 
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CornFedBeef21 said:
That's awesome. However, if someone is interested in pursuing a H&N Cancer fellowship after all of that great experience, is there any value in going to a 4 year program? Genuine question, not bashing on 4 years. I was just under the (probably wrong) assumption that you really limit your chances at a fellowship with a single degree program.
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Good question, and I'd love to hear some insight from residents who are at 4 year programs with a heavy cancer focus.
 
CornFedBeef21 said:
That's awesome. However, if someone is interested in pursuing a H&N Cancer fellowship after all of that great experience, is there any value in going to a 4 year program? Genuine question, not bashing on 4 years. I was just under the (probably wrong) assumption that you really limit your chances at a fellowship with a single degree program.
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I heard from several 4-year program directors that if you want to do head and neck cancer, you need to go to a 6-year AND do a fellowship.
 
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Has anyone spoken to programs with listed PASS deadlines of 09/01 to see if they are keeping/changing deadlines? Ex: UMD, UCLA, Case Western, etc.
 
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