*** 2021-2022 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

[Peritus_Medicus]

Quick question: Just heard back from a program (post-interview) that I am currently in a "high hold" status. Does anyone know what this means?

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[mdphd63627]

Most likely top of the waitlist imo

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Alright, hyper weird question:

I now find myself in a position to where I can grow long hair and a beard for the first time in many years and intend to do so prior to my next interview in a little over a month. If I am going to look substantially different than the headshot I uploaded and I cannot change the image in the portal, should I email admissions with a new headshot?

 

[Peritus_Medicus]

I now find myself in a position to where I can grow long hair and a beard for the first time in many years and intend to do so prior to my next interview in a little over a month. If I am going to look substantially different than the headshot I uploaded and I cannot change the image in the portal, should I email admissions with a new headshot?

I am not an expert on this. However, a fellow research tech was in this situation a few years back. While applying MD/PhD, he grew a beard/long hair. He didn't update his pic, and did very well during interviews (multiple T20 A's). Maybe the new look surprised the interviewers in a good way?

 

[deleted1092328]

I am not an expert on this. However, a fellow research tech was in this situation a few years back. While applying MD/PhD, he grew a beard/long hair. He didn't update his pic, and did very well during interviews (multiple T20 A's). Maybe the new look surprised the interviewers in a good way?

most likely new look had no affect and the applicant would have gotten the A's regardless

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Looks like we had some rejections early in the week and not much other reported activity here on SDN. As the holidays approach, I anticipate we will hear a little bit of news for January/February interviews, a substantial number of rejections as schools start to round out the end of their interview season, and - based on Fencer's data he has previously shared - we should see a LOT of acceptances, particularly "first" acceptances, over the next two weeks as schools that interviewed October/November put together their tentative cohort!

Good luck, happy holidays, and keep notifications turned on just a couple more weeks!

 

[mudfud26]

Do MD-PhD programs consider the Casper much? I have some interviews coming up that have my Casper score, so I wanted to be prepared if it comes up. My Casper score is trash despite being an empathetic person.

 

[Neuro.Doc]

Do MD-PhD programs consider the Casper much? I have some interviews coming up that have my Casper score, so I wanted to be prepared if it comes up. My Casper score is trash despite being an empathetic person.

The Casper test has been around since 2005, the first school to use Casper was in 2010. As of 2018, only 11 schools were using this test. Currently, about 40+ MD schools (in the US) use this test.

Since it is relatively new, I believe most schools are still trying to figure out how to utilize the test as part of the admissions process. It will probably take a few years to compare Casper results upon entry into med school vs. quality of med student / doctor - this will probably be done internally at each school to see if it is a metric they want to continue using.

As a personal opinion, most MD-PhD programs put less weight into many of the soft skills (such as Casper) in the admissions process. Research is king, with pubs as the main currency.

 

[Fencer]

As of today, we have 1762 MD/PhD applicants and 201 of them have at least one MD/PhD acceptance. Most MD/PhD application deadlines have already passed. There are a few interview slots still available. Hopefully, accepted applicants begin to make decisions based upon their ACs by withdrawing for further consideration (opening interview or AC slots).

CASPer is used in many medical schools (collected in >80%), mostly as an observational measure. However, some SOMs (for example UTMB-Galveston) have taken the stand already of incorporating it into their admission calculation. I personally think that is is very imprecise particularly for those who did not grew up in the US. Having said that, I have been very impressed by individuals with top 10% scores. In addition, it does not measure relevant competencies for scientific thinking and thus, MD/PhD programs do not use it other than as part of the SOM review.

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

@Fencer I know I have seen information before on distribution of number of acceptances, but would you happen to have or know the distribution on number of interviews for MD/PhD?

 

[deleted787473]

If a mdphd school only has a mdphd interview, and states that applicants are not forwarded to the MD committee for consideration, meaning all processing is done by the mdphd committee

Does that mean that if accepted, you cannot enroll as an md only student? You either accept mdphd or dont go there?

 

[applicant20212022]

@turn up raaaah4 : Based on my understanding I think that's the case

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

If a mdphd school only has a mdphd interview, and states that applicants are not forwarded to the MD committee for consideration, meaning all processing is done by the mdphd committee

Does that mean that if accepted, you cannot enroll as an md only student? You either accept mdphd or dont go there?

This is the case in all instances, correct? If you are accepted MD/PhD but turn it down prior to matriculation, I don’t believe you retain the MD only acceptance? Maybe on a case-by-case? Hypothetically you can drop the PhD post-matriculation anywhere….but really yuh shouldn’t

 

[Fencer]

I have no data available regarding MD/PhD interviews. There is no requirement for reporting to AMCAS despite that the coding to do so exists. Acceptances to MD/PhD programs (and MD) are required to be reported into the system.

 

[deleted787473]

@Fencer do you have any insight to my above post? Can a student drop mdphd prior to matriculation and retain md only status?

Ik it probably varies by program but I’m wondering how programs with only the mdphd committe making decisions responds to this

 

[RunningMSN]

@Fencer do you have any insight to my above post? Can a student drop mdphd prior to matriculation and retain md only status?

Ik it probably varies by program but I’m wondering how programs with only the mdphd committe making decisions responds to this

These posts from earlier in the thread may help:

This is quite rare, but it has happened twice in my program; in both cases, the students enrolled in medical school without prejudice. The MD-PhD program is not of itself a degree granting entity, it is a pathway (albeit with many enhancements) that connects two degree granting entities, the medical school and the graduate school. MD-PhD students are admitted to the medical school and the graduate school, and have all the rights of MD and PhD students. When a student decides to withdraw from one of the schools (usually the graduate school) they do not forfeit their rights to continue to attend the other school. I would think other schools would have the same take on this.

If they drop to SOM only between AC and matriculation, they do not count against the MD/PhD program or the applicant. If they drop after matriculation, then, it could be noted in their MSPE (Dean's letter) and it counts against the MD/PhD program as attrition. Therefore, have a very sincere discussion with the PD before matriculation, preferably prior to April 30 to allow them add another applicant into your slot. This is not an exact science but open communication between trusted parties leads to better outcomes for all involved in the process...

 

[applesauce14]

Are January interview invites a thing? At this point, if I have not heard back from a school, is it safe to assume an impending rejection? Or is there any hope??

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Are January interview invites a thing? At this point, if I have not heard back from a school, is it safe to assume an impending rejection? Or is there any hope??

If a school has February, March, or late January interview dates, it is absolutely possible to still get interview invites, particularly at lower ranked schools or non-MSTPs. As people get their Acceptances at the Vandys and Mayos of the world, they might drop their later interview dates.

The number of interview invites will be low, and many will be dependent on those individuals with multiple acceptances to drop later interview dates. However, January invites can and will still happen. With that said, if you are not looking too hot right now, there is no better time to prepare a reapplication/seek feedback than now.

Now to address those with Acceptances: If you have an acceptance currently, please take a critical look at how this school/these schools stand for you. Do some research on the schools where you may have January and February interviews at. After that evaluation, conduct an honest self assessment and - while you are absolutely entitled to any interviews you receive, you earned them - if applicable, withdraw from the later interviews before the new year. If you have attended 5+ interviews and have acceptances, you know what you like and dislike in a program. There is no valid reason for us to attend interviews at schools because we are ‘just curious to see’ or ‘don’t want to close any doors too early.’ Be honest with yourself and what is available at these school, and potentially let someone else have chance.

 

[applesauce14]

Thanks @2021-2022-NonTrad , couldn't have said it better. Weak applicants like me greatly appreciate your withdrawals! Congrats to everyone with acceptances so far!

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Thanks @2021-2022-NonTrad , couldn't have said it better. Weak applicants like me greatly appreciate your withdrawals! Congrats to everyone with acceptances so far!

Also, just to help you and others, here is every remaining interview:

*** 2021-2022 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

Hi, I have a question about application updates! Would it be appropriate to send application updates to our interviewers in addition to uploading them on the application portal? Especially in the case that one or more of our interviewers were directors of the program? If there is the option to...

forums.studentdoctor.net

And here is a crowdsourced link of schools who accept updates:

 

[DrDriven07]

ik this is bad but i dont know how to deal with schools rejecting me, especially post II

some people get sad, i personally get pissed as hell

Good news from the place you are meant to be at is coming. Keep your head up King or Queen

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Keep your head up King or Queen

Might I suggest “Sovereign”

noun: sovereign; plural noun: sovereigns

1. 1. a supreme ruler, especially a monarch. synonyms:ruler, monarch, supreme ruler, Crown, crowned head, head of state, potentate, suzerain, overlord, dynast, leader; Moreking, queen, emperor, empress, prince, princess, tsar, royal duke, grand duke, elector, crown prince, princeling, prince regent, mogul, baron, liege (lord), lord, emir, sheikh, sultan, maharaja, raja;historicalatheling

 

[257544789853]

withdraw from the later interviews before the new year

How close is too close to cancel an upcoming MD-PhD interview after receiving an acceptance? Asking about early-Jan interviews, especially considering holiday break and if MSTP admin will be out of office.

 

[skeeter11]

How close is too close to cancel an upcoming MD-PhD interview after receiving an acceptance? Asking about early-Jan interviews, especially considering holiday break and if MSTP admin will be out of office.

n=2 but I received an invite 9 days (7 business days) out from an interview. I have a friend who got one the week of last cycle. I think it’s still worth cancelling to try to give someone else the spot

 

[257544789853]

I have a question about withdrawing from programs after interviewing but before receiving a decision.
I already interviewed at program A and program B before receiving any acceptances. I am awaiting a decision for program A, but I recently received an acceptance to program B that I would definitely attend over program A. Can I withdraw my application from program A, or would it be seen as disrespectful post-interview? I dont mind waiting for their decision, but I wouldnt want to waste their time and if I were to be accepted, I would much rather that acceptance go to someone else.

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

or would it be seen as disrespectful post-interview?

I have been told point-blank by a program I am still waiting on post interview “If you are no longer considering us, please let us know.”

It is absolutely not disrespectful to be honest with a school. They know they may not be your best fit, that is why they accept 2-5 applicants per seat. They know people will turn them down.

 

[Fencer]

I have a question about withdrawing from programs after interviewing but before receiving a decision.
I already interviewed at program A and program B before receiving any acceptances. I am awaiting a decision for program A, but I recently received an acceptance to program B that I would definitely attend over program A. Can I withdraw my application from program A, or would it be seen as disrespectful post-interview? I dont mind waiting for their decision, but I wouldnt want to waste their time and if I were to be accepted, I would much rather that acceptance go to someone else.

Congratulations on receiving an MD/PhD acceptance from a program that fits your educational needs! This is a close knit community and directors actually know each other quite well. The community deeply cares about trainees and their futures. We expect to forge your careers as physician-scientists. Many of you will receive multiple acceptances... (just check the acceptances thread). You must behave with a high level of professionalism as your peers might eventually be your R01 or manuscript reviewers. Furthermore, what do you think that we talk about in the watering holes at our professional meetings. Yes, we groan about our Dean's support and other things, but also about stories (good and bad) from applicants and trainees. Truly egregious lack of professionalism will travel... Fortunately, that is quite rare. Most MD/PhD applicants are genuinely terrific people with more accomplishments than we had at their age. We (and others) are happier to adapt "early" to your withdrawals. As I have indicated previously, between December and March, all the MD/PhD programs extend ~75% of MD/PhD acceptances. By withdrawing early, we are able to adapt and open interview slots and/or extend acceptances from our post-interview waitlists. It is very reasonable to keep 3-4 acceptances until mid April, but if you have >4 ACs, start making decisions. Last cycle, I had someone with 11 ACs past the deadline. That only hurts others (i.e.: you) ...

Here is an example for a nice/professional withdrawal email

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Dear PD,
Thank you for interviewing me (or offering me an opportunity to interview) at your MD/PhD program. I recently received an acceptance from another program that is more closely aligned with my educational needs. I appreciate the work of your team arranging for my interview and describing the opportunities at your institution, however, I would like to withdraw from further consideration at this point.
Sincerely,
Applicant
AAMC ID: 000000

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

This is a close knit community and directors actually know each other quite well. The community deeply cares about trainees and their futures. We expect to forge your careers as physician-scientists. Many of you will receive multiple acceptances... (just check the acceptances thread).

but also about stories (good and bad) from applicants and trainees. Truly egregious lack of professionalism will travel... Fortunately, that is quite rare.

Is this to say that Program Directors are speaking of particular applicants/future trainees during ongoing application cycles? Beyond instances of particularly egregious behavior, as you have mentioned, can this not influence decisions unfairly (either positively or negatively) for applicants?

 

[Fencer]

No... we don't talk about Charlie Brown, or any other specific applicant during the cycle. We are bound by confines of FERPA and other professionalism guidelines. However, post-hoc, we talk stories... (the fish also keeps getting bigger over the years).

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

No... we don't talk about Charlie Brown, or any other specific applicant during the cycle. We are bound by confines of FERPA and other professionalism guidelines. However, post-hoc, we talk stories... (the fish also keeps getting bigger over the years).

This certainly makes sense and matches my preconceptions. I appreciate the clarification of your statements!

 

[mudfud26]

So I got my first A! BUT they said I need to accept or decline within x business days. I know I won’t receive a decision on a prior interview until January. 2 questions.

1. Can they require a x business day response when they know I am waiting on another school?
2. Is this decision binding?

 

[larynxlady]

So I got my first A! BUT they said I need to accept or decline within x business days. I know I won’t receive a decision on a prior interview until January. 2 questions.

1. Can they require a x business day response when they know I am waiting on another school?
2. Is this decision binding?

Congratulations!

From what I understand this is not binding. You can accept and hold multiple acceptances right now. Nothing is binding until you input it on AMCAS on April 30.

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

So I got my first A! BUT they said I need to accept or decline within 5 business days. I know I won’t receive a decision on a prior interview until January. 2 questions.

1. Can they require a 5 business day response when they know I am waiting on another school?
2. Is this decision binding?

You can accept the acceptance without making any commitments. You are basically just confirming “yes, I have received this and am still excited by your school/wish to remain in one of the seats for your class.”

 

[Fencer]

AMCAS rules allows you to collect acceptances until April 15, at which point, you must reduce to only 3 acceptances (all programs). This means a clear email withdrawing from a program. The program will then withdraw you within the system, and the acceptance offer should disappear from your CYMS portal. Sometimes this process takes a week, despite the request by AMCAS to do this promptly (within days). Bottom line, clear communications with programs is essential. No program (except early matric) is able to request that you "commit to enroll" until 21 days prior to MD/PhD orientation OR ~ May 15 (this is under discussion and programs can require a different date). Prior to those dates AND prior to May 1 (i.e.: April 30), all commitments are non-binding from the standpoint of the student, but are legal contracts from the standpoint of schools.

Replying to an email offering you an MD/PhD acceptance is required. We want to know that you are still interested in our programs, but you are NOT committing. If you have multiple offers, please withdraw only from those programs that are no longer in your real list (which should be less than 4-5 programs). We are hoping that people can do in-person (or at least virtual) visits to make decisions.

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

We are hoping that people can do in-person (or at least virtual) visits to make decisions.

Given the recent emergence and profile of Omicron, is there any word on whether second looks (particularly those in February) are looking to still be in person? On the surface, I have been told “we still plan on in person” but is there any other word behind the scenes?

 

[Fencer]

It is too early to tell... I suspect that the Omicron spread will peak by mid-January, and we will be back by mid-March to safer levels for safer travel.

Get your boosters once eligible. Here are some additional thoughts:

About two weeks ago, I attended a large conference (~4500). All people were vaccinated (CLEAR app QR codes) and our badges showed one of 3 stickers (green, yellow, red) to show others how close we were willing to greet. More recently, this weekend a different conference used rapid testing antigen to enter. I suspect that 2nd visits of small groups will be allowed with distancing, masking and other measures. No communal food until positivity rate in the communities are back to normal.

 

[mdandaphd]

Hi - I've been fortunate to have attended several MD/PhD interviews so far this cycle. My current PI (also one of my LoR writers) reached out today asking if I would like them to call any programs and advocate for me.

Does this kind of call to a program have any impact? Would it make a difference if they had a connection to the specific institution? (i.e did residency there). I wasn't sure if this was a typical thing that programs receive, and my PI already wrote me an excellent LoR so I don't want them to waste their time, or potentially irk program directors by adding to the volume of communications they receive.

Thanks in advance!

 

[bigfanofscience]

Hi - I've been fortunate to have attended several MD/PhD interviews so far this cycle. My current PI (also one of my LoR writers) reached out today asking if I would like them to call any programs and advocate for me.

Does this kind of call to a program have any impact? Would it make a difference if they had a connection to the specific institution? (i.e did residency there). I wasn't sure if this was a typical thing that programs receive, and my PI already wrote me an excellent LoR so I don't want them to waste their time, or potentially irk program directors by adding to the volume of communications they receive.

Thanks in advance!

I'm really curious to hear from others. Is that a normal thing to do? It strikes me as inappropriate. Your PI already wrote you a letter, so I don't see what additional correspondence would do besides annoy programs, but I'm also wondering if I am naïve and this is normal.

 

[deleted787473]

Hi - I've been fortunate to have attended several MD/PhD interviews so far this cycle. My current PI (also one of my LoR writers) reached out today asking if I would like them to call any programs and advocate for me.

Does this kind of call to a program have any impact? Would it make a difference if they had a connection to the specific institution? (i.e did residency there). I wasn't sure if this was a typical thing that programs receive, and my PI already wrote me an excellent LoR so I don't want them to waste their time, or potentially irk program directors by adding to the volume of communications they receive.

Thanks in advance!

My gut is telling me please don’t, it’s all in the LOR

 

[ricepudding16]

Random question: If I am listed as a second author on a publication, and the first three authors are all listed as *contributed equally to this work, does this make me a first author technically? What do I consider myself in terms of authorship?

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Random question: If I am listed as a second author on a publication, and the first three authors are all listed as *contributed equally to this work, does this make me a first author technically? What do I consider myself in terms of authorship?

Would this be a case of co-first author given it is specified?

 

[Fencer]

No phone calls, but we are welcome to receive an updated LOR prior to committee meeting.

You are a technically a co-first co-author (or just co-first author as everybody on the list is a co-author)

 

[Fencer]

Happy Holidays to the entire PS community... As an update, as of last night sync, we have 1765 applicants (about same as in 2018-2020, but -14% less than 2021), and we have extended at least one MD/PhD acceptance to 329 applicants for the 2022 enrollment. A single applicant has withdrawn after MD-PhD AC to MD-only. I project that there will be over 500 additional applicants who will receive a MD/PhD acceptance in the next 5-6 months. It is a very long journey, as we are celebrating the journey of one of our colleagues @Neuronix to R01. The journey as he has chronicled in this media has as many UPs and DOWNs just as an amusement park ride. Nevertheless, people keep riding them because of the adrenaline and, in our case, PURPOSE improving the lives of people with illnesses.
🎅

 

[MomofHopefulPremed]

My daughter has now had five MD/PhD interviews, yay! She is honestly thrilled to be considered and feels she would love to attend any of them. During some interviews, faculty asked her to write to them if their school is the #1 school she is considering, straight out saying this would improve her chance of earning an acceptance. (She does not have any acceptances.)
She has not told a school they're her favorite, as she would be honestly delighted to attend any of them. I feel she might be missing a chance to improve her odds somewhere, so she should pick one and tell them.
Is this trivial? Does the interviewer already know their school isn't #1, because she didn't immediately respond with "Absolutely, it's you! I love your school best!"
Thank you!

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

My daughter has now had five MD/PhD interviews, yay! She is honestly thrilled to be considered and feels she would love to attend any of them. During some interviews, faculty asked her to write to them if their school is the #1 school she is considering, straight out saying this would improve her chance of earning an acceptance. (She does not have any acceptances.)
She has not told a school they're her favorite, as she would be honestly delighted to attend any of them. I feel she might be missing a chance to improve her odds somewhere, so she should pick one and tell them.
Is this trivial? Does the interviewer already know their school isn't #1, because she didn't immediately respond with "Absolutely, it's you! I love your school best!"
Thank you!

If the school directly told your daughter it will help, yes she should tell her number one program it is her favorite. From what I have heard, Letters of intent are not often taken seriously as hypothetically your daughter or anyone could send them to any program they have interviewed at as they are non-biding. But if she has a top pick me has been told it will benefit then she should do it.

 

[applesauce14]

Does anyone have a link to a website where I can find a list of NIH funding to different academic institutions based on research discipline? For example, a list of the most funded institutions for immunology? If anyone knows where to find something like this, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Does anyone have a link to a website where I can find a list of NIH funding to different academic institutions based on research discipline? For example, a list of the most funded institutions for immunology? If anyone knows where to find something like this, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

Blue Ridge Institute for Medical Research

This might be what you are looking for

 

[mudfud26]

My daughter has now had five MD/PhD interviews, yay! She is honestly thrilled to be considered and feels she would love to attend any of them. During some interviews, faculty asked her to write to them if their school is the #1 school she is considering, straight out saying this would improve her chance of earning an acceptance. (She does not have any acceptances.)
She has not told a school they're her favorite, as she would be honestly delighted to attend any of them. I feel she might be missing a chance to improve her odds somewhere, so she should pick one and tell them.
Is this trivial? Does the interviewer already know their school isn't #1, because she didn't immediately respond with "Absolutely, it's you! I love your school best!"
Thank you!

I'm currently interviewing and have 1 A. Personally, I do tell schools that are my top choice with GOOD reasons, both professional (unique curriculum and/or research) and personal (eg proximity to family). I don't pick a school at random to tell them they're my top choice; I ensure that it's a good fit, I can see myself attending the school, and students there are happy.

If she's unsure about schools and hasn't been to a campus, she should get in touch with a current MD-PhD for a Zoom chat (they are usually more than happy to do this) to learn more about student life and answer any questions not covered in the info sessions or interviews (eg resources for tutoring or wellness, safety and fun in the campus's surrounding area, benefits of curriculum or school size). If she has any more interviews, I would definitely recommend she get in touch with a student prior to the interview so she can be more prepared and indicate extra interest to the school beyond them being her 6th or 7th interview. I have done this prior to my interviews and the extra prep work definitely makes an impact on the interviewers.

 

[eagle_123]

I'm currently interviewing and have 1 A. Personally, I do tell schools that are my top choice with GOOD reasons, both professional (unique curriculum and/or research) and personal (eg proximity to family). I don't pick a school at random to tell them they're my top choice; I ensure that it's a good fit, I can see myself attending the school, and students there are happy.

If she's unsure about schools and hasn't been to a campus, she should get in touch with a current MD-PhD for a Zoom chat (they are usually more than happy to do this) to learn more about student life and answer any questions not covered in the info sessions or interviews (eg resources for tutoring or wellness, safety and fun in the campus's surrounding area, benefits of curriculum or school size). If she has any more interviews, I would definitely recommend she get in touch with a student prior to the interview so she can be more prepared and indicate extra interest to the school beyond them being her 6th or 7th interview. I have done this prior to my interviews and the extra prep work definitely makes an impact on the interviewers.

Is it not unethical to tell multiple schools that they are your TOP choice?

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Is it not unethical to tell multiple schools that they are your TOP choice?

I think what they intended to say was “a top choice.” I think unless you have some school which is far and away the best stand out hands-down (how many metaphors can I use in one sentence?) then telling schools they are a top choice is OK. I have used the “a top choice” verbiage in two letters of interest so far. The unethical part would be something like “You are my number one and I will matriculate to you” with multiple schools. The other schools will never know….until you don’t matriculate there. But all of this is to show why letters of intent and interest are kinda useless in most cases..but to reiterate to the OP of the original question, if a school asked for a letter of interest, your daughter can use such language as “a top choice” while still satisfying their pseudo requirements