*** 2019-2020 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

[EvoMed]

I had a question concerning the April 15th traffic rule of having only 3 acceptances by then. I had 5 acceptance offers and withdrew from one school so now I currently have 4. However, many of the revisits are after April 15th but I'd like to attend all 4 revisits. Is this simply not possible/should I be deciding on only 3 schools to go back to revisit? It's a difficult decision to make without even having a chance to go back to the school.

You can still visit a school even if there isn't an official revisit that weekend. Prospective mentors and program admins will usually be happy to meet.

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[Sarasa Zebra]

What are some good questions to ask during revisit weekends? Any not so obvious ones?

 

[babykarat]

I mean honestly the only thing that could possibly be an issue based on what you listed here is GPA, but your MCAT is so high and undergrad institution is probably tough/respected, so you're probably OK. Probably the key thing for you is to have a solid narrative for the evolution of your research interests + how mdphd training will develop them + what you ultimately want to do with your research. Communicating this narrative well in your essays and interviews will seal the deal for you I think. Little doubt you will get interviews if you workshop your essays enough

For your school list 16 places seems like a safe number, but I noticed you left off the UCs- maybe consider adding UC SF/LA/SD?

Hi, Everyone, if possible, could you please help a list of MD/PHD programs for 2020-2021 cycle with the credentials?

1. sGPA 3.71 from a rigorous program in Ivies plus 12
2. MCAT 525
3. A sustained biomedical research record with several poster presentations and one oral presentation in national/international biomedical science/medicine conferences (2016-2020) and a manuscript being written for publication
4. A demonstrated strong leadership
5. Stellar LoRs from research mentors, professors, pre-health advisor and program director
6. A substantial physician shadowing record
7. One summer clinical-oriented research
8. All others e.g. community services are above average...

The list of MD/PhD programs:

1. Perelman
2. HMS
3. JHU
4. Vagelos
5. Weill
6. Stanford
7. Yale
8. NYU
9. WashU
10. Duke
11. Pritzker
12. Pitt
13. ISMMS
14. Einstein
15. Case
16. Tufts

Thanks for your time in advance!!!

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

Hi BabyKarat, thanks for your prompt and constructive comments. sGPA was suffering in the Spring semester of Freshman year and the subsequent Fall semester due to the uncertain of premed in the dual degree program. Science major is a concentration that is arguably the most rigorous one in the college and is also probably the only one offered at the undergraduate level in the nation...will graduate in the coming May with a BA and a BS, apply for MD/PHD only program in the summer, and work in a basic and transnational medical science lab in one medical school listed...Thanks again for your suggestions.

You should make a separate post for your school list suggestions. But my $0.02 coming from someone with a similar profile is that it's too top-heavy. I would say either substitute some T10s for some T20s, or just expand your list. It's good to have many schools to choose from rather than too few.

 

[Fencer]

About 8-10% of applicants w similar MCAT/GPA would go thru the cycle without an MD/PhD acceptance. Their typical common denominator is a similar list plus/minus extremely poor interview skills. Despite your terrific academic benchmarks and experiences, the application process has little tolerance for snobbishness. Out of the top 5 programs, you will be lucky to get 1 invitation, perhaps 2 invitations out of next 5 programs, etc. If an applicant gets 5 or 6 interviews, there is <4% of not getting at least an acceptance. You don't need more than 10 interviews for having at least 2 choices. The more competitive programs have better yields for their acceptances (i.e. less accepted per interview). PM me if you need.

 

[testing121212]

Plea to the MSTP applicants with March interviews at UW: if you have an acceptance you're sure you prefer, please drop the interview so those on hold can have a chance to interview! Lots of love.

 

[JHUBlueJay19]

Need some advice! I'm currently on post-interview hold at my top choice school. I sent them a LOI about 2 weeks ago and got a response that they are in the process of making final admissions decisions and will get back to me in a couple of weeks (so around this time).

I'm currently enrolled in a pre-req class that is not necessary for my top choice school but is required for my other acceptances. The class is taking A LOT of my time and really cutting into my Master's thesis so it would be amazing if I could drop/audit it, but the deadline to do so is this Friday. Additionally, one of my other school's second look day falls on the same day as the second look for my top choice. The other school wants an RSVP by this Friday as well. I'm wondering if it is appropriate to let my top choice know of these deadlines? I don't want to sound pushy, but if they are able to give a decision by Friday it really would help me a lot. Thoughts??

 

[babykarat]

You could submit the rsvp this Friday, and cancel later if need be, right? Sounds like you'll probably get a decision soon. I think if you get good news by friday the 13th and cancel the first rsvp immediately then that would give enough notice. I figure this happens fairly often- can any adcoms weigh in?

Need some advice! I'm currently on post-interview hold at my top choice school. I sent them a LOI about 2 weeks ago and got a response that they are in the process of making final admissions decisions and will get back to me in a couple of weeks (so around this time).

I'm currently enrolled in a pre-req class that is not necessary for my top choice school but is required for my other acceptances. The class is taking A LOT of my time and really cutting into my Master's thesis so it would be amazing if I could drop/audit it, but the deadline to do so is this Friday. Additionally, one of my other school's second look day falls on the same day as the second look for my top choice. The other school wants an RSVP by this Friday as well. I'm wondering if it is appropriate to let my top choice know of these deadlines? I don't want to sound pushy, but if they are able to give a decision by Friday it really would help me a lot. Thoughts??

 

[JHUBlueJay19]

You could submit the rsvp this Friday, and cancel later if need be, right? Sounds like you'll probably get a decision soon. I think if you get good news by friday the 13th and cancel the first rsvp immediately then that would give enough notice. I figure this happens fairly often- can any adcoms weigh in?

Thanks! Even though I would feel incredibly bad cancelling the RSVP after the program has booked travel and accommodation arrangements for me, I understand that this does happen fairly often in the process, and there is not much that can be done.

I am actually more worried about the course drop deadline. If I am accepted to my top choice after this Friday, I will still be locked into taking the course for a grade. Since I am considering also applying to competitive scholarships (Rhodes, Marshall), I would have to do fairly well in the class without withdrawing. The amount of time this course has been taking, along with all the travelling this semester, has really hindered my research progress thus far. Continuing this course will almost certainly push back my Master's graduation date, leaving me almost no time between ending the Master's and starting the MD/PhD - a situation I am really trying to avoid. Just wondering if this is an appropriate deadline to convey to my top choice, and if so, how should I do it without sounding like I am being pushy or impatient for a decision?

 

[babykarat]

Thanks! Even though I would feel incredibly bad cancelling the RSVP after the program has booked travel and accommodation arrangements for me, I understand that this does happen fairly often in the process, and there is not much that can be done.

I am actually more worried about the course drop deadline. If I am accepted to my top choice after this Friday, I will still be locked into taking the course for a grade. Since I am considering also applying to competitive scholarships (Rhodes, Marshall), I would have to do fairly well in the class without withdrawing. The amount of time this course has been taking, along with all the travelling this semester, has really hindered my research progress thus far. Continuing this course will almost certainly push back my Master's graduation date, leaving me almost no time between ending the Master's and starting the MD/PhD - a situation I am really trying to avoid. Just wondering if this is an appropriate deadline to convey to my top choice, and if so, how should I do it without sounding like I am being pushy or impatient for a decision?

Ach I feel for you, that sounds like a sticky situation. I think if I were you I would draft the email to get it off my mind, and wait to send it until Wednesday night. If you don't get a reply Thursday, I'd call Friday morning.

You could also communicate with the course instructor and ask for an extension of the drop deadline maybe? They might be more sympathetic than admissions committees. I really hate to say it, but my honest feeling is that adcoms will not care whether you get a month off before starting their program. We applicants are a dime a dozen :/

 

[Fencer]

Update on 2020 Cycle - as of 03/01/2020 (overnight sync to 3/2)

This is the BEST MD/PhD result for each individual applicant (WA or AC is better than Active/Looking, which is better than Rejected - PW, PR, RJ).

	March 2, 2020
Total Applicants	1794 (-3) ???
Withdrawn Before Acceptance (WB)	12 (-6)
Rejected (Prelim Rj, Passive Withdrawal, RJ)	1040 (-36, helpful!)
Active in the cycle (not rejected)	742 (+39, really helpful!!!)
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance (AC, DF, WA)	616 (+88)
Defer to a later application cycle (DF)	0
Withdrawal After Acceptance (WA)	6 (-1)
Currently Accepted for MD/PhD (AC)	610 (+89)
Seeking a position (NA, HO, RS, AL, IN)	126 (-49)

For the 2019 matriculation cycle, we ended up with 803 applicants receiving at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance, and 708 first-year MD/PhD matriculants. Our 2020 admission process is moving forward... about 3/4 of the eventual applicants who will be given at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance have already received it - which means that ~23% of eventually MD/PhD accepted applicants in 2020 are still waiting for their first MD/PhD acceptance. Furthermore, while a total of 742 active participants is BELOW our need of ~800 accepted MD/PhD applicants, this number is better by ~40 applicants as compared to my last post. Programs might be correcting their outcomes from their interviewed rosters... we hope. Historically, another batch of acceptances in the most competitive programs is released within 10 days, with the corresponding domino effect opening slots in outstanding but lesser competitive programs.

For people with multiple MD/PhD interviews and no acceptances, there is a lot of hope. Hang in there.... For people with no MD/PhD interviews, it is time to reflect critically on how to improve your application. PM me if needed.

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

Update on 2020 Cycle - as of 03/01/2020 (overnight sync to 3/2)

This is the BEST MD/PhD result for each individual applicant (WA or AC is better than Active/Looking, which is better than Rejected - PW, PR, RJ).

	March 2, 2020
Total Applicants	1794 (-3) ???
Withdrawn Before Acceptance (WB)	12 (-6)
Rejected (Prelim Rj, Passive Withdrawal, RJ)	1040 (-36, helpful!)
Active in the cycle (not rejected)	742 (+39, really helpful!!!)
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance (AC, DF, WA)	616 (+88)
Defer to a later application cycle (DF)	0
Withdrawal After Acceptance (WA)	6 (-1)
Currently Accepted for MD/PhD (AC)	610 (+89)
Seeking a position (NA, HO, RS, AL, IN)	126 (-49)

For the 2019 matriculation cycle, we ended up with 803 applicants receiving at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance, and 708 first-year MD/PhD matriculants. Our 2020 admission process is moving forward... about 3/4 of the eventual applicants who will be given at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance have already received it - which means that ~23% of eventually MD/PhD accepted applicants in 2020 are still waiting for their first MD/PhD acceptance. Furthermore, while a total of 742 active participants is BELOW our need of ~800 accepted MD/PhD applicants, this number is better by ~40 applicants as compared to my last post. Programs might be correcting their outcomes from their interviewed rosters... we hope. Historically, another batch of acceptances in the most competitive programs is released within 10 days, with the corresponding domino effect opening slots in outstanding but lesser competitive programs.

For people with multiple MD/PhD interviews and no acceptances, there is a lot of hope. Hang in there.... For people with no MD/PhD interviews, it is time to reflect critically on how to improve your application. PM me if needed.

Just curious, but if I hold acceptances and cannot see the CYMS tool on AMCAS currently, does that mean I am technically not in the system yet and not counted as part of the "At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance" pool?

 

[Fencer]

That is correct... Your MD/PhD program might not control the AMCAS reporting tool, likely controlled by their SOM Admissions. Not to worry from your side, you hold a "real" acceptance that has not been reported. Contact them and tell them that you do not see their offer of acceptance into the CYMS tool. They should know what to do (I hope).

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

That is correct... Your MD/PhD program might not control the AMCAS reporting tool, likely controlled by their SOM Admissions. Not to worry from your side, you hold a "real" acceptance that has not been reported. Contact them and tell them that you do not see their offer of acceptance into the CYMS tool. They should know what to do (I hope).

Speak of the devil, I can see CYMS now after I received an official notification today (previously I was notified by phone call).

 

[totalpanda472]

Would appreciate any input here!

I'm currently holding a handful of MSTP offers and I'd like to start turning a few down so wait-listed applicants who are more likely to go to the school can be offered a position earlier on. Does anyone have an example email they've sent to MD PhD directors when turning down offers? I feel like it cant be a generic/short email because as MD PhD applicants we are hand selected by directors so a more personalized email giving reasons is better.

 

[booksinlibraries]

Would appreciate any input here!

I'm currently holding a handful of MSTP offers and I'd like to start turning a few down so wait-listed applicants who are more likely to go to the school can be offered a position earlier on. Does anyone have an example email they've sent to MD PhD directors when turning down offers? I feel like it cant be a generic/short email because as MD PhD applicants we are hand selected by directors so a more personalized email giving reasons is better.

I have been giving short and to-the-point emails. I briefly compliment the school and program and then say that I have decided to matriculate to another program and I add a phrase alluding to why (nothing in depth). A lot of schools reply with a survey so they can find out why you withdrew, so you don't have to do that on the front end unless you want to. Fencer earlier in this thread gave this example:

Dear Dr. X,
I truly appreciate the offer for acceptance to the MD/PhD program at "Univ. of the South Pole". However, I have also been accepted to another program that aligns better with my research interests [in sun-tanning]. Please withdraw my application after acceptance to your program.
Thanks,
Future MDPhD

 

[Fencer]

On Monday, call the program coordinator and ask if your update was received. Right now, we all are trying to figure out how to do virtual 2nd visits.

 

[BananaNE]

Does anyone know how big the average MSTP waitlists are?

Currently waitlisted at a program that I really liked.
It seems that most programs interview ~60-70 applicants. If they have N spots for the program, then does that mean WL consists about 2N (or how does it work)?

 

[MSTPadvocate]

Does anyone know how big the average MSTP waitlists are?

Currently waitlisted at a program that I really liked.
It seems that most programs interview ~60-70 applicants. If they have N spots for the program, then does that mean WL consists about 2N (or how does it work)?

We keep about 1.5N on the wait list and don't rank order. All are qualified but the pool is so small that we have to think about demographics (gender, field of interest) and whether we think they would accept our offer.

 

[BananaNE]

We keep about 1.5N on the wait list and don't rank order. All are qualified but the pool is so small that we have to think about demographics (gender, field of interest) and whether we think they would accept our offer.

Thank you so much for the insight. That makes sense.

Does that also mean the programs initially accept as many students? Or is it normally, accept N and keep 1.5N on WL?

 

[jpeg_2019]

We keep about 1.5N on the wait list and don't rank order. All are qualified but the pool is so small that we have to think about demographics (gender, field of interest) and whether we think they would accept our offer.

Yeah just to be clear, if your program accepts 10 people then there would be 15 on the wait list, or do you mean there would be 5?

 

[MSTPadvocate]

Yeah just to be clear, if your program accepts 10 people then there would be 15 on the wait list, or do you mean there would be 5?

15 - we need demographic diversity, but we don't rank order per se.

 

[mtoboggan]

I'm also curious what the general consensus is regarding initial acceptances.

Is it typical for the number of initial offers given equal to the number of spots a program has capacity for? Or does it follow a trend similar to many med schools where they may accept twice as many applicants than they have spots for with the expectation that many of those offers will be declined?

 

[MSTPadvocate]

I'm also curious what the general consensus is regarding initial acceptances.

Is it typical for the number of initial offers given equal to the number of spots a program has capacity for? Or does it follow a trend similar to many med schools where they may accept twice as many applicants than they have spots for with the expectation that many of those offers will be declined?

depends. we admit more than we have slots for, but we've been doing it so long that we know how many to take. The bad thing is that there are 40 I couldn't interview that are just as qualified as those admitted and the wait list people are qualified too. This is why like it when people give us answers quickly. If your down to 2 places, it doesn't make sense to hold an additional 3.

 

[Fencer]

I'm also curious what the general consensus is regarding initial acceptances.

Is it typical for the number of initial offers given equal to the number of spots a program has capacity for? Or does it follow a trend similar to many med schools where they may accept twice as many applicants than they have spots for with the expectation that many of those offers will be declined?

It depends.... In some state schools, we have rules that do not allow us to over-enroll. I use two waitlists, a Waitlist-HIGH, which a group of applicants where I historically got to their spot. I am conservative in the size and composition of this group. While I over-accept, I have to be very conservative due to my institution's rules. I know that some schools in California have to do the same.

 

[ryanairtotherescue]

@Fencer I am a little confused by the traffic rules. I thought schools were supposed to notify all applicants by March 15th if they are accepted, rejected or waitlisted. Is this not true? If not, then what date are they supposed to send out decisions by? I know by April 30th students must only hold one acceptance, and can remain on as many waitlists as possible. At this point I assumed is when most schools start moving through their waitlists to send offers. Is there a certain date that you must "commit to enroll" to a school? Since some school I am waitlisted at stated that if I "commit to enroll" at another school, I am required to immediately relinquish my position on their waitlist and withdraw my application.

 

[deleted998376]

MSTP Directors: should we expect future admissions decisions (especially waitlist movement) to be delayed due to COVID-19 cancellations of adcom meetings and second visits?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fencer]

Update on 2020 Cycle - as of 03/16/2020 (overnight sync to 3/17)

This is the BEST MD/PhD result for each individual applicant (WA or AC is better than Active/Looking, which is better than Rejected - PW, PR, RJ).

	March 17, 2020
Total Applicants	1794 (no change)
Withdrawn Before Acceptance (WB)	7 (-5)
Rejected (Prelim Rj, Passive Withdrawal, RJ)	1031 (-9)
Active in the cycle (not rejected)	756 (+14)
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance (AC, DF, WA)	672 (+56)
Defer to a later application cycle (DF)	0
Withdrawal After Acceptance (WA)	13 (+7)
Currently Accepted for MD/PhD (AC)	659 (+49)
Seeking a position (NA, HO, RS, AL, IN)	84 (-42)

For the 2019 matriculation cycle, we ended up with 803 applicants receiving at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance, and 708 first-year MD/PhD matriculants. Our 2020 admission process is moving forward and likely will end with a smaller class despite a slightly larger number of applicants. As the deadline for putting out at least as many acceptances as expected first-year matriculants has just passed, another large number of acceptances have been issued. Now, it is for applicants to make decisions using VIRTUAL 2nd Visits. Every single of my accepted applicants has multiple acceptances. I know that I will get into my waitlists in order to fill my class...

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

Has anyone attended a virtual second look yet? Any advice on how to maximize the experience? I hope to get off the waitlist at a few programs that have invited me to the virtual second look (seems promising if they invited me to attend?). If the time comes when I need to make a decision on short notice, I would like to be as informed as possible.

 

[ryanairtotherescue]

Curious if people think applicants will choose their school to commit to enroll earlier now with all second visits being virtual? I am currently on the waitlist at a school, so just interested to see other people's opinions if they think the move to the waitlist will occur earlier. From my perspective the in-person second visits provide opportunity to learn more about the location, meet other accepted students, and get a better feel if that's where you want to be for 8 years especially if choosing between several places, whereas now the virtual second looks don't necessarily provide too much new information from what they may have from interviewing already besides possibly interacting with new faculty members. Thus, I feel like whatever feelings/inclinations about schools people already have won't change much and people will be able to make a decision earlier

 

[Fencer]

In the recent past (since daily acceptance lists are no longer available), I have used an applicant 1st MD/PhD acceptance (provided in aggregate in national admission action report) as a surrogate marker of movement in the waitlist. I also have another surrogate which is specific to me, giving me an indication of the number of people we interviewed who have not gotten a MD/PhD acceptance. Both surrogates are relatively very still ... not moving much. Every person in my accepted list has multiple acceptances. None of my accepted applicants has more than 4 currently accepted programs... I will give an update on the numbers on Monday.

 

[Seihai]

Curious if people think applicants will choose their school to commit to enroll earlier now with all second visits being virtual? I am currently on the waitlist at a school, so just interested to see other people's opinions if they think the move to the waitlist will occur earlier. From my perspective the in-person second visits provide opportunity to learn more about the location, meet other accepted students, and get a better feel if that's where you want to be for 8 years especially if choosing between several places, whereas now the virtual second looks don't necessarily provide too much new information from what they may have from interviewing already besides possibly interacting with new faculty members. Thus, I feel like whatever feelings/inclinations about schools people already have won't change much and people will be able to make a decision earlier

I plan to commit earlier simply because the virtual second looks are unlikely to change my mind. I've already withdrawn from four of my acceptances and will likely be withdrawing from all but one well in advance of the deadline, though I am still planning to attend 2-3 more second looks beyond my current first choice as a way to reevaluate.

 

[SevenofSonless]

In a letter of intent, should we mention other programs that we have been accepted/waitlisted at? I feel that the general consensus is that we should (on MD-specific forums at least), but it honestly seems a bit tacky and unnecessary to me. Still, I would definitely appreciate more expert opinion. @Fencer ?

 

[Fencer]

You don't need to do that, but if you do, then say something thoughtful like ...

While I have been accepted to other MSTPs (UT North Pole, Ivy League Univ), I am plan to attend your institution because it is a better research fit for my needs. I intend to do laboratory rotations with Drs. X, Y and Z.

Now, if you really do intend to do this, you should be withdrawing from the other institutions, allowing for movement in the waitlist.

 

[SevenofSonless]

You don't need to do that, but if you do, then say something thoughtful like ...

While I have been accepted to other MSTPs (UT North Pole, Ivy League Univ), I am plan to attend your institution because it is a better research fit for my needs. I intend to do laboratory rotations with Drs. X, Y and Z.

Now, if you really do intend to do this, you should be withdrawing from the other institutions, allowing for movement in the waitlist.

Thanks a bunch for the feedback @Fencer

 

[EvoMed]

You don't need to do that, but if you do, then say something thoughtful like ...

While I have been accepted to other MSTPs (UT North Pole, Ivy League Univ), I am plan to attend your institution because it is a better research fit for my needs. I intend to do laboratory rotations with Drs. X, Y and Z.

Now, if you really do intend to do this, you should be withdrawing from the other institutions, allowing for movement in the waitlist.

classy

 

[Fencer]

Update on 2020 Cycle - as of 03/31/2020 (overnight sync to 4/01)

This is the BEST MD/PhD result for each individual applicant (WA or AC is better than Active/Looking, which is better than Rejected - PW, PR, RJ).

	April 1, 2020
Total Applicants	1792 (-2)
Withdrawn Before Acceptance (WB)	8 (+1)
Rejected (Prelim Rj, Passive Withdrawal, RJ)	1023 (-8)
Active in the cycle (not rejected)	761 (+5)
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance (AC, DF, WA)	691 (+19)
Defer to a later application cycle (DF)	1 (+1)
Withdrawal After Acceptance (WA)	20 (+7)
Currently Accepted for MD/PhD (AC)	670 (+11)
Seeking a position (NA, HO, RS, AL, IN)	70 (-12)

For the 2019 matriculation cycle, we had 803 applicants receiving at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance, and 708 first-year MD/PhD matriculants. Our 2020 admission process is moving forward and likely will end with a smaller class despite a slightly larger number of applicants. This is the lull before the storm when things are a bit quieter just before the musical chairs (domino effect from highly competitive to lesser competitive) are used; when applicants drop from 4+ acceptances to 2 or 3, and finally then settle to 1 program. Applicants will be making decisions using mostly VIRTUAL 2nd Visits. I am expecting that at least 50 applicants in the seeking a position (i.e.: interviewed and have not been rejected) will be landing at least one MD/PhD acceptance. While this is an unusual cycle due to obvious reasons, it is only sharpening when decisions are occurring. That is, decisions are being made closer to deadlines. Every single of my accepted applicants has multiple acceptances. I know that I will get into my waitlists in order to fill my MSTP class...

 

[drdreyman]

Update on 2020 Cycle - as of 03/31/2020 (overnight sync to 4/01)

This is the BEST MD/PhD result for each individual applicant (WA or AC is better than Active/Looking, which is better than Rejected - PW, PR, RJ).

	April 1, 2020
Total Applicants	1792 (-2)
Withdrawn Before Acceptance (WB)	8 (+1)
Rejected (Prelim Rj, Passive Withdrawal, RJ)	1023 (-8)
Active in the cycle (not rejected)	761 (+5)
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance (AC, DF, WA)	691 (+19)
Defer to a later application cycle (DF)	1 (+1)
Withdrawal After Acceptance (WA)	20 (+7)
Currently Accepted for MD/PhD (AC)	670 (+11)
Seeking a position (NA, HO, RS, AL, IN)	70 (-12)

I am expecting that at least 50 applicants in the seeking a position (i.e.: interviewed and have not been rejected) will be landing at least one MD/PhD acceptance.

Am I correct in understanding that there are 70 applicants on waitlists right now? (unsure of what NA, HO, RS, IN mean) and at least 50 of that group + the "active in the cycle" group will receive an acceptance?

 

[Fencer]

These are the internal codes that exist for administrative status for an application.

NA - no action, HO - hold (by any school), RS - request secondary, AL - alternate, IN - interviewed. These codes mean that the applicant has not been rejected by at least one school.

Rejection by a school means that the application has been placed into one of these 3 buckets: Rejection - RJ (973), Preliminary Rejection - PR (34; perhaps, lower benchmarks than acceptable for review), and Passive Withdrawal (PW, 16; i.e.: student was unresponsive to school request and school places them in this preliminary bucket; an example, did not re-schedule an interview).

 

[Fencer]

Update on 2020 Cycle - as of 04/10/2020 (overnight sync to 4/11)

This is the BEST MD/PhD result for each individual applicant (WA or AC is better than Active/Looking, which is better than Rejected - PW, PR, RJ).

	April 11, 2020
Total Applicants	1792 (0)
Withdrawn Before Acceptance (WB)	8 (0)
Rejected (Prelim Rj, Passive Withdrawal, RJ)	1020 (-3)
Active in the cycle (not rejected)	764 (+3)
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance (AC, DF, WA)	700 (+9)
Defer to a later application cycle (DF)	3 (+2)
Withdrawal After Acceptance (WA)	24 (+4)
Currently Accepted for MD/PhD (AC)	673 (+3)
Seeking a position (NA, HO, RS, AL, IN)	64 (-6)

For the 2019 matriculation cycle, we had 803 applicants receiving at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance, and 708 first-year MD/PhD matriculants. Our 2020 admission process is moving forward and likely will end with a smaller class despite a slightly larger number of applicants. This is the lull before the storm when things are a bit quieter just before the musical chairs (domino effect from highly competitive to lesser competitive) are used; when applicants drop from 4+ acceptances to 2 or 3, and finally then settle to 1 program. Waitlist movement will happen the last 2 weeks of April and first one of May.

 

[neuronal123]

How long does it take each school's system to process a withdrawal? I've emailed both MSTP and MD committees at one school about withdrawing my application over the past three weeks, and although I've received responses to the emails, my AMCAS still shows the school as an acceptance. I'm trying to follow traffic rules by narrowing down to three schools before April 15th, but am wondering if I need to call them soon to make the deadline.

 

[Fencer]

From the traffic rules for schools:

#2 Promptly communicate admissions decisions:

1. By October 1, notify Early Decision applicants and the American Medical College Application Service (AMCAS) of Early Decision Program (EDP) admission actions.
2. From October 15 to March 15, notify AMCAS within five business days of all admission actions, either written or verbal, that have been communicated to an applicant.
3. From March 16 to April 30, notify AMCAS within two business days of all admissions acceptance, withdrawal, or deferral actions, either written or verbal, that have been communicated to an applicant. All admission actions are listed and defined on the AAMC website.
4. From May 1 to the first day of class, notify AMCAS of all admissions actions within 24 hours.
5. Notify AMCAS of each student’s matriculation within 24 hours.

Here is the problem.... The MD/PhD office needs to communicate with the SOM Admissions office, who then make the change in AMCAS. In practice, in prior years, I had seen for some cases up to 2-3 weeks delay even after April 15.

As an applicant, do not worry.... it is only after April 30 that we would even know WHO is the applicant(s) keeping multiple acceptances. As long as you can show to that program that you have written an email to withdraw from the other school (print that email into a PDF document) and enclose it indicating your commitment for a given program, you will be just fine....

 

[Fencer]

Update on 2020 Cycle - as of 04/20/2020 (overnight sync to 4/21)

This is the BEST MD/PhD result for each individual applicant (WA or AC is better than Active/Looking, which is better than Rejected - PW, PR, RJ).

	April 21, 2020
Total Applicants	1792 (0)
Withdrawn Before Acceptance (WB)	9 (+1)
Rejected (Prelim Rj, Passive Withdrawal, RJ)	1012 (-8)
Active in the cycle (not rejected)	771 (+7)
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance (AC, DF, WA)	714 (+14)
Defer to a later application cycle (DF)	4 (+1)
Withdrawal After Acceptance (WA)	27 (+3)
Currently Accepted for MD/PhD (AC)	683 (+10)
Seeking a position (NA, HO, RS, AL, IN)	57 (-7)

For the 2019 matriculation cycle, we had 803 applicants receiving at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance, and 708 first-year MD/PhD matriculants. Our 2020 admission process is moving forward and likely will end with a smaller class despite a slightly larger number of applicants. I predict that the class enrolling in 2020 will have around 680 MD/PhD matriculants with 780 applicants receiving at least one MD/PhD acceptance. As in prior years, we will have about 20 DFs and 80 WA (into MD only). Over the next 3-4 weeks, the musical chairs will be moving with a domino effect from highly to lesser competitive programs. Applicants drop from their 3 acceptances to single program. The waitlist movement will happen primarily next week, but it begins this week and will continue until early May. Historically, most positions will be settled down the week of May 11-15. If you interviewed and haven't been officially rejected, there is still HOPE for a MD/PhD Acceptance.

 

[FutureResearcher93]

I had a question about updating programs. My 1st choice in their waitlist decision email said to let them know if I had committed to another school. I've emailed my 1st choice program about a month ago with publication updates and letting them know that they were my top choice due to program opportunities and closeness to family. Since that update, I received an offer from my 2nd choice and in AMCAS committed to enroll at my 2nd choice. Do I need to email my 1st choice and let them know that while I've committed to enroll at another school, they are still my first choice? I'm worried that my 1st choice would see on April 30th, that I've committed to enroll somewhere else and haven't notified them.

 

[Fencer]

In the CYMS webtool, right now, you only have two options: 1) Doing Nothing - i.e.: no decision or 2) Plan to Enroll to a particular school. The schools do not know who is the accepted applicant who made that decision. You are anonymous to them.

Plan to enroll prior to April 30 means that if the cycle ended today, you would be planning to attend that school. However, you are still able to receive offers of acceptance from your waitlist (i.e.: from your 1st choice). On May 1, you will have 2 different options and they have slightly different meanings. Commit to Enroll means that you are closing your recruitment and have chosen. Yes, you need to notify the schools that waitlisted and those who gave you an acceptance of your decision. At this point, the schools know who is making the decision, it is not anonymous anymore.... Plan to enroll after April 30 means that you are still waiting for your #1 choice. Hopefully this helps you...

 

[Seihai]

In the CYMS webtool, right now, you only have two options: 1) Doing Nothing - i.e.: no decision or 2) Plan to Enroll to a particular school. The schools do not know who is the accepted applicant who made that decision. You are anonymous to them.

Plan to enroll prior to April 30 means that if the cycle ended today, you would be planning to attend that school. However, you are still able to receive offers of acceptance from your waitlist (i.e.: from your 1st choice). On May 1, you will have 2 different options and they have slightly different meanings. Commit to Enroll means that you are closing your recruitment and have chosen. Yes, you need to notify the schools that waitlisted and those who gave you an acceptance of your decision. At this point, the schools know who is making the decision, it is not anonymous anymore.... Plan to enroll after April 30 means that you are still waiting for your #1 choice. Hopefully this helps you...

To add to this, the deadline for when you must commit to enroll (essentially withdraw from every other school) varies from school to school - some have their CTE deadlines as early as May.

 

[Fencer]

The recommendation for "Commit to Enroll"(CTE) from AAMC is that school policies for CTE should not exceed 21 days from the orientation date for the program. Now, COVID-19 circumstances vary greatly across the country. My institution is re-starting medical clerkships at reduced capacity (based upon area of interest) as early as next week. About 70% of our research labs were still functioning with social distancing for the past month. Our medical ICU capacity was >50% available. In a large top 10 metropolitan city, we only have experienced <40 deaths related to COVID-19. What is more important, >75% ventilators are available, and we are getting <5% of tests as positive. Conditions on the ground vary a lot... My institution is planning to have laboratory rotations in June, therefore, we require CTE in May.

FYI to all.... The AAMC MD/PhD section is working hard to get a webinar with PSTP directors particularly for those of you who are anxious MS-3s. The F word is called Flexibility. Intended ERAS deadlines and Dean's letter submissions are likely to stay the same, the letters are going to have Flexibility written all over it.

 

[FutureResearcher93]

In the CYMS webtool, right now, you only have two options: 1) Doing Nothing - i.e.: no decision or 2) Plan to Enroll to a particular school. The schools do not know who is the accepted applicant who made that decision. You are anonymous to them.

Plan to enroll prior to April 30 means that if the cycle ended today, you would be planning to attend that school. However, you are still able to receive offers of acceptance from your waitlist (i.e.: from your 1st choice). On May 1, you will have 2 different options and they have slightly different meanings. Commit to Enroll means that you are closing your recruitment and have chosen. Yes, you need to notify the schools that waitlisted and those who gave you an acceptance of your decision. At this point, the schools know who is making the decision, it is not anonymous anymore.... Plan to enroll after April 30 means that you are still waiting for your #1 choice. Hopefully this helps you...

Thank you! That makes sense. So my 2nd choice has a Commit to Enroll Deadline of April 30th--which is crazy early. Would it be poor taste for me to email my 1st choice and let them know that they are my top choice, but I don't have much time that I am allowed to stay on their waitlist? I've already emailed them with an update on papers submitted and letting them know that they were my number one choice about 2 months ago.

 

[Fencer]

The AMCAS traffic rules indicates 21 days from orientation to require CTE. Email your 1st choice. Regarding your 2nd choice, if the orientation is 21 days from April 30th, then they are within the legal framework of requiring it. However, if their orientation is later than that, then they are not able to legally enforce their requirement of CTE. I know that AAMC will be sending a reminder to programs about these rules within a few days...

 

[FutureResearcher93]

The AMCAS traffic rules indicates 21 days from orientation to require CTE. Email your 1st choice. Regarding your 2nd choice, if the orientation is 21 days from April 30th, then they are within the legal framework of requiring it. However, if their orientation is later than that, then they are not able to legally enforce their requirement of CTE. I know that AAMC will be sending a reminder to programs about these rules within a few days...

Thank you! I'll email my 1st choice. That is helpful to know; I had just gotten off the phone with AMCAS, and they had told me that each school is allowed to set their own guidelines. The orientation date is during the last week of July.