*** 2019-2020 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

[Fencer]

The CYMS system is as good as the data that is entered by applicants. Planning to Enroll is non-committal. It only means that as of TODAY, this is the place that you would choose to attend if the cycle ended up TODAY. You could be changing that decision on a daily basis until April 30.

I highly encourage all accepted applicants to actively use CYMS webtool.

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[Seihai]

The CYMS system is as good as the data that is entered by applicants. Planning to Enroll is non-committal. It only means that as of TODAY, this is the place that you would choose to attend if the cycle ended up TODAY. You could be changing that decision on a daily basis until April 30.

I highly encourage all accepted applicants to actively use CYMS webtool.

The information is quite limited. Beginning Feb 19 programs will be able to run a report to see the aggregate number of individuals who have selected "Plan to Enroll" for their school and the number who have selected "Plan to Enroll" for other schools. There are no names attached to these numbers; we will only know that, a total of 4 individuals have selected plan to enroll for our school, and 3 have selected plan to enroll for another school. On April 30, we will be able to see names and statuses of all individuals who are holding acceptances at our school.

Prior to the 2019 cycle, we could see all the current acceptances of those individuals holding acceptances at our program beginning in mid-February. This allowed us to make an assessment of the likely yield of those holding acceptances, and perhaps make additional offers before May 1. For instance, if I saw that an applicant was holding an acceptance at a school that might be more desirable to them personally due to location, research fit, prestige, etc., I might decide to pull someone off the waitlist at the beginning of March, rather than wait until I get a decline email on May 1. The waitlist grows stale quickly, and someone who might have been willing dump Fencer's program for mine in February might get tired of waiting and decline our offer after May 1. That happened to us last year (though not with Fencer's program). We had an applicant that I spoke with 2-3 times a week throughout the month of April. He was in another program, but really wanted to come here. We were oversubscribed, but I told him that we almost always took someone off the waitlist. On May 1 I told him that several applicants still had multiple "Plan to Enroll" statuses, and there was a good chance we would be going to the waitlist. However, he decided that he could no longer wait, and committed to the other program on May 2.

It seems that the tool won't be available to applicants until February 19.

I'm curious - can you run the report only for your school or are you able to see reports for other schools?

Can you also see what schools your accepted applicants have planned to enroll at/have acceptances to, or is the data just aggregate data in the form of "13 individuals hold acceptances at other schools; 8 have selected plan to enroll at your school; 3 have selected plan to enroll for other schools; 2 have not selected plan to enroll at any school"?

From an applicant perspective, these questions really won't affect much (except maybe clarifying how waitlists might move in the coming months, if at all), but I am still pretty interested to know.

 

[Seihai]

Thank you for sharing this! Just to clarify here, the 'Active in the cycle' group are those who remain under consideration in at least 1 school, correct? Would this mean that there are 1140 applicants (1796-656) who have been rejected from all MD/PhD programs that they have applied to? I hope I understand this, these really seem to be some shocking numbers here.

Keep in mind this includes people who applied to only one or two MD-PhD programs and perhaps applied to the rest MD. I know some people who tossed a "hail mary" MD-PhD application when they never really considered it as a possibility. I don't know if that makes up such a huge portion of the applicant pool, though, so there may be some other factors at play.

 

[Maebea]

"I'm curious - can you run the report only for your school or are you able to see reports for other schools?"
We can only run the report for our schools.

"Can you also see what schools your accepted applicants have planned to enroll at/have acceptances to, or is the data just aggregate data in the form of "13 individuals hold acceptances at other schools; 8 have selected plan to enroll at your school; 3 have selected plan to enroll for other schools; 2 have not selected plan to enroll at any school"?"
We will not see where the other acceptances are. It will tell us how many applicants are holding 5 acceptances, how many are holding 5, and so on. It also tells us how many have selected Plan to Enroll at our school and how many have selected Plan to Enroll at other schools (not specifying the names of the applicants or the other schools).

And like Fencer, I encourage all y'all to be diligent with using the CYMS tool and winnowing your acceptance list in a timely manner.

 

[catkitten2]

Is there any chance at this point of receiving any more interview invites or should we assume that process is over?

 

[Fencer]

Likely it is done in regards to interview invites, but if you can reach out to those few programs that are still interviewing for possible very late cancellations.... see the national google calendar for MD/PhD programs

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

Is there any chance at this point of receiving any more interview invites or should we assume that process is over?

I received one this week after reaching out to a program and it wasn't a cancellation. But that's because I knew their last interview date was coming up and I've been in contact with them for a while. The latest school that interviews is University of Washington (until March!), but I think they're on cancellations at this point.

 

[Register1]

Quick question, I received an offer letter from an MSTP program, and they asked me to accept or decline the position within 2 weeks. I thought MSTPs couldn't require you to make a binding decision until much later in the cycle?

 

[tardigrade88]

Quick question, I received an offer letter from an MSTP program, and they asked me to accept or decline the position within 2 weeks. I thought MSTPs couldn't require you to make a binding decision until much later in the cycle?

Accepting the position does not require you to attend the program. This is just to hold your spot so they know not to offer your position to someone else. You don't have to commit anywhere until April 30.

 

[Fencer]

That is correct .... All MD/PhD programs are following AMCAS Traffic Rules. The letter of intent is only to show that you are interested in holding the position. It is legally unenforceable. Regardless of their letter-of-intent language, in order to participate in AMCAS, all schools sign an agreement that says that they are going to be bound by the traffic rules. However, you need to maintain prompt communication with schools. There are causes for rescinding acceptances including being unresponsive to communications, or if you lied in your application as shown by a formal background check.

 

[Register1]

Thanks!

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

I almost can't believe it. I received my first acceptance today. Although where I go to school might change, I'm going to be a physician-scientist in the end. Special thanks to @Fencer for being as amazing as he is with the great advice and information, as always.

 

[SciClin]

Would an update saying that my team and I just received a grant for a project that I started be okay? The big problem is that we don't know the exact amount of funding yet (it could be anywhere in the mid-five or low-six figure range). I'm just nervous, since my top choice is about to release decisions soon, but I don't want to simply say, "We got the grant I talked about in my app., but I don't know the exact amount of funding yet."

 

[Fencer]

Send a brief email, just indicating that your "app" grant received a fundable score. Don't get into additional details as you don't know them.

 

[SciClin]

Send a brief email, just indicating that your "app" grant received a fundable score. Don't get into additional details as you don't know them.

Sounds good. Thank you, @Fencer!

 

[catkitten2]

Likely it is done in regards to interview invites, but if you can reach out to those few programs that are still interviewing for possible very late cancellations.... see the national google calendar for MD/PhD programs

Just to clarify, what exactly should I say in an email? Should I make it a letter of interest or just ask my status?

 

[Fencer]

If you truly love that place, go for it and make it letter of intent. You should send the rest of the programs who interview you, the email as a significant update. Don't do that letter of intent to more than 1 (if undecided 2) programs. Second visits help you make decisions. Do you see yourself 8 years there with those students?

 

[Pantherx263]

If you truly love that place, go for it and make it letter of intent. You should send the rest of the programs who interview you, the email as a significant update. Don't do that letter of intent to more than 1 (if undecided 2) programs. Second visits help you make decisions. Do you see yourself 8 years there with those students?

How do you recommend keeping in contact with a program going down the rest of the admissions season? This isn't relevant right at this exact moment, but if after being waitlisted and after sending a letter of intent, is there anything else to do to continue showing interest to our top choice school? For example, I was put on the wait list and sent in a letter of intent at the beginning of this month. I realize it is soon after right now, but if I continue to go on into March/April with no change in status, is it recommended to continue showing interest and perhaps sending another letter of intent? Or would that second letter not matter if they already know I plan to go there if accepted?

 

[Fencer]

Thin line between annoying vs very enthusiastic. An email more often than every 4 weeks, is perhaps too often, unless you have a major significant update such as manuscript accepted or things of that sort. However, that resets the timer. Time the deadlines to send your email at ~2 weeks prior to them (March 15, April 15, April 30 - i.e.: March 1, April 1, April 20).

 

[Pantherx263]

Thin line between annoying vs very enthusiastic. An email more often than every 4 weeks, is perhaps too often, unless you have a major significant update such as manuscript accepted or things of that sort. However, that resets the timer. Time the deadlines to send your email at ~2 weeks prior to them (March 15, April 15, April 30 - i.e.: March 1, April 1, April 20).

Thank you!

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

With the new USMLE Step 1 change being announced, is there any insight into how much this impacts MD/PhDs? Badly because now Step 2 is the deciding factor? Positively because we can differentiate from MD applicants with research?

 

[OHCA]

With the new USMLE Step 1 change being announced, is there any insight into how much this impacts MD/PhDs? Badly because now Step 2 is the deciding factor? Positively because we can differentiate from MD applicants with research?

I think this absolutely helps MD/PhD students. We have been at a disadvantage for decades due to step 1 "score creep", where there has been a consistent rise in step 1 scores over time. This is especially important when the standard deviation to begin with is like 10 points (?). @Neuronix has written pretty extensively on this topic in the past. Agree with your points about research emphasis as well. The one thing that is concerning is the potential emphasis on clinical rotations, but I think that has more to do with the individual rather than the system itself.

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

I think this absolutely helps MD/PhD students. We have been at a disadvantage for decades due to step 1 "score creep", where there has been a consistent rise in step 1 scores over time. This is especially important when the standard deviation to begin with is like 10 points (?). @Neuronix has written pretty extensively on this topic in the past. Agree with your points about research emphasis as well. The one thing that is concerning is the potential emphasis on clinical rotations, but I think that has more to do with the individual rather than the system itself.

Aren't MD/PhDs still at a disadvantage regarding step 2 and rotations, especially at programs that don't have early clinical rotations or longitudinal clinical experiences during the PhD?

 

[Cherry1997]

Is step 2 typically taken after the PhD years?

 

[Fencer]

Step 2 is typically taken between MS3 and MS4.

 

[babykarat]

Step 2 is typically taken between MS3 and MS4.

Do you think programs will try to provide more medical education experiences during the PhD phase for students now? In addition to this change, I might trim Step 1 dedicated time, shorten preclinical, and push clerkships until after PhD if I were a program director.

I am just curious how you envision the structure of programs will change. At revisits this spring this now seems among the most important questions to ask

 

[deleted1005053]

What is the waitlist movement like with the new traffic rules? Are waitlists being utilized more? Does everybody who isn't accepted post-interview get put on a waitlist? Waitlisted at my top choice and wondering if I should hold out hope or start getting excited about other options.

 

[Lucca]

What is the waitlist movement like with the new traffic rules? Are waitlists being utilized more? Does everybody who isn't accepted post-interview get put on a waitlist? Waitlisted at my top choice and wondering if I should hold out hope or start getting excited about other options.

the answer is all of the above. if you havent already communicated to your top choice that they are such then do so.

 

[Fencer]

Update on 2020 Cycle - as of 02/14/2020 (overnight sync to 2/15)

This is the BEST MD/PhD result for each individual applicant (WA or AC is better than Active/Looking, which is better than Rejected - PW, PR, RJ).

	February 15, 2020
Total Applicants	1797 (+1)
Withdrawn Before Acceptance (WB)	18 (-7)
Rejected (Prelim Rj, Passive Withdrawal, RJ)	1076 (-39, helpful!)
Active in the cycle (not rejected)	703 (+47, really helpful!!!) see comment
At least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance (AC, DF, WA)	528 (+103)
Defer to a later application cycle (DF)	0
Withdrawal After Acceptance (WA)	7 (+2)
Currently Accepted for MD/PhD (AC)	521 (+101)
Seeking a position (NA, HO, RS, AL, IN)	175 (-61)

For the 2019 matriculation cycle, we ended up with 803 applicants receiving at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance, and 708 first-year MD/PhD matriculants. Our 2020 admission process is moving forward... about 2/3 of the eventual applicants who will be given at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance have already received it - which means that ~34% of eventually MD/PhD accepted applicants in 2020 are still waiting for their first MD/PhD acceptance. Furthermore, while a total of 703 active participants is BELOW our need of ~800 accepted MD/PhD applicants, this number is better by ~50 applicants as compared to my last post. Programs might be correcting their outcomes from their interviewed rosters... we hope.

For people with multiple MD/PhD interviews and no acceptances, there is a lot of hope. Hang in there.... For people with no MD/PhD interviews, it is time to reflect critically on how to improve your application. PM me if needed.

 

[SevenofSonless]

This is probably a dumb question....but is sending a letter of intent to a top choice something that is normally only done post-interview decision (if waitlisted ofc) or is it appropriate at any point really. I'm tentative because my interview was just two weeks prior and I should get my decision this month; I just don't want to come across burdensome/needy and my impression of letter of intents from sdn is that they are communicated/effective when you would like to get off a waitlist. But I feel like this cycle's dynamics are a bit weird in terms of programs being tentative and I kinda don't wanna be left behind if that makes sense

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

This is probably a dumb question....but is sending a letter of intent to a top choice something that is normally only done post-interview decision (if waitlisted ofc) or is it appropriate at any point really. I'm tentative because my interview was just two weeks prior and I should get my decision this month; I just don't want to come across burdensome/needy and my impression of letter of intents from sdn is that they are communicated/effective when you would like to get off a waitlist. But I feel like this cycle's dynamics are a bit weird in terms of programs being tentative and I kinda don't wanna be left behind if that makes sense

I also interviewed at my top choice two weeks ago, but I expressed my intention in person to the director. It was received ambivalently and he explained some of the reasoning why, but another place I interviewed at encouraged LOIs at the wrap-up. I think it‘s impossible to predict if they don’t tell you directly because it is subjective how it will be received by programs pre-decision. If you want to know more you can PM me.

 

[Sarasa Zebra]

Could anyone perhaps comment on how stating that I will have to defer enrollment for 2 years would be viewed upon? It would be for a significant reason that would actually give me another 2 years of quality research experience. When schools go about crafting a class/cohort of MSTP students, am I considered separately since I wouldn't be matriculating with most of the current applicants?

Some follow-up questions... Does waitlist movement include applicants like me, since when spots open up, I wouldn't be matriculating? In general, would this be viewed favorably/unfavorably?

 

[Schedar]

Could anyone perhaps comment on how stating that I will have to defer enrollment for 2 years would be viewed upon? It would be for a significant reason that would actually give me another 2 years of quality research experience. When schools go about crafting a class/cohort of MSTP students, am I considered separately since I wouldn't be matriculating with most of the current applicants?

There are obviously FAR more qualified people to answer this question than me, but fwiw what I've heard is that if you're deferring for a major academic reason that looks shiny on your resume (Rhodes, Gates, Marshall, similar calibre scholarships), then it wouldn't be looked down on and schools are *generally* pretty flexible. That said, some don't allow deferrals for any reason. I wish you the best and hope that someone can give you a more detailed answer

 

[Maebea]

Could anyone perhaps comment on how stating that I will have to defer enrollment for 2 years would be viewed upon? It would be for a significant reason that would actually give me another 2 years of quality research experience. When schools go about crafting a class/cohort of MSTP students, am I considered separately since I wouldn't be matriculating with most of the current applicants?

Some follow-up questions... Does waitlist movement include applicants like me, since when spots open up, I wouldn't be matriculating? In general, would this be viewed favorably/unfavorably?

There is no single model for deferrals. Some will grant a year deferral for most any reason, some will be more restrictive, and others will not grant deferrals for any reason. I heard of a school that granted a 4-year deferral so an individual could train for & complete in the Olympics. Wait until you have an acceptance to request a deferral from a school, but make that request as soon as possible so the school can pick someone off their wait list to fill the open spot.

 

[shacoleblanconly]

Can anyone here see the “choose your medical school” thing? I can’t but maybe it’s because I’m on my phone.

 

[nickeldime]

I can see it, I used CYMS on my phone. It seems that other folks on reddit are having this same issue though.

 

[shacoleblanconly]

Got it! I think it was just delayed for me. Any other admitted Sinai people not able to see them on the list of schools?

 

[Maebea]

For the 2019 matriculation cycle, we ended up with 803 applicants receiving at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance, and 708 first-year MD/PhD matriculants. Our 2020 admission process is moving forward... about 2/3 of the eventual applicants who will be given at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance have already received it - which means that ~34% of eventually MD/PhD accepted applicants in 2020 are still waiting for their first MD/PhD acceptance. Furthermore, while a total of 703 active participants is BELOW our need of ~800 accepted MD/PhD applicants, this number is better by ~50 applicants as compared to my last post. Programs might be correcting their outcomes from their interviewed rosters... we hope.

For people with multiple MD/PhD interviews and no acceptances, there is a lot of hope. Hang in there.... For people with no MD/PhD interviews, it is time to reflect critically on how to improve your application. PM me if needed.

Do you think the record 708 matriculants last year represents real growth in the number of MD-PhD slots, or it was related to the opacity of the CYMS tool? My program hit it's target by making 2 waitlist offers, but I heard from a peer program that exceeded its target by 40%. To bring their budget back in line, they are reducing their target by 20% for the 2020 and 2021 admissions cycles. This is an n of 1, but I wonder if we will see a reduction in the entering class this year if other programs need to recover from overshooting their targets last year.

 

[mtoboggan]

Got it! I think it was just delayed for me. Any other admitted Sinai people not able to see them on the list of schools?

Did you get it figured out? I wasn't admitted to Sinai, but I'm not able to see the CYMS button/tab on my portal

 

[shacoleblanconly]

Did you get it figured out? I wasn't admitted to Sinai, but I'm not able to see the CYMS button/tab on my portal

Yup, it popped up eventually for me but I know some people could see it before I could. My guess is that by the end of the day we'll all be able to see it.

 

[MSTP_Girl]

Got it! I think it was just delayed for me. Any other admitted Sinai people not able to see them on the list of schools?

Now that it's appeared for you, can you see Sinai? I was also accepted to Sinai and can't find the CYMS link.

 

[shacoleblanconly]

Now that it's appeared for you, can you see Sinai? I was also accepted to Sinai and can't find the CYMS link.

Nope, can't see Sinai right now but can see the other schools I hold acceptances from. My guess is that they haven't submitted the admitted student data to AMCAS yet or something like that.

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

So when asked in my top choice interview why I should be chosen over another applicant, I had to decide whether to go with my true feelings or to play the game. I told the truth because I feel strongly about this and said, "I don't think I necessarily deserve the spot over anyone else. Everyone I've met is impressive and wonderful." I'll update what happens to me when I find out in a few weeks. But if there's one thing I've learned from ~10 interviews on the trail, it's that you guys (MD/PhD applicants) are some of the most friendly and amazing people in the world.

Update: rejected from my top choice. Not even waitlisted. No regrets though!

 

[gnarwhal]

Yup, it popped up eventually for me but I know some people could see it before I could. My guess is that by the end of the day we'll all be able to see it.

The option to pick Sinai showed up for me this morning

 

[mtoboggan]

My CYMS tab finally appeared today! I know the MSTP administration at this program was getting things done quickly so the med school probably had to catch up.

 

[deleted993768]

@Fencer Any updates on applicant pool numbers? I'm mostly curious how if you had any insights on waitlist movement being more prominent compared to previous years because of the low number of non-rejected applicants.

 

[Fencer]

I sent earlier an email to my accepted MD/PhD students that is relevant to all of you who have acceptances (helping to oil the application system):

I would like to follow up regarding the “Choose Your Medical School” (CYMS) web-tool available in your AMCAS application portal. Only 25% of our accepted applicants have used it up to the overnight sync, and all of you have multiple acceptances. I strongly encourage you to use it. Using CYMS allows programs to consider extending additional acceptances, helping your peers. Please note that when you use the CYMS tool:

• Schools will not know your individual choice of preferred program, we only see an aggregate of all our accepted applicants. We don't even know who has used CYMS and who hasn't.
• Decisions can be changed every day if you desire with no consequences. They are transmitted to the School Portals overnight.
• Your selection is a non-binding decision until you make it so after April 30.

If you have chosen a program already, congratulations on this tough decision! CYMS is the next step. We strongly believe that you would thrive in our MD/PhD program, however, we understand if another program is better aligned with your priorities.

Best wishes,

 

[Register1]

I sent earlier an email to my accepted MD/PhD students that is relevant to all of you who have acceptances (helping to oil the application system):

I would like to follow up regarding the “Choose Your Medical School” (CYMS) web-tool available in your AMCAS application portal. Only 25% of our accepted applicants have used it up to the overnight sync, and all of you have multiple acceptances. I strongly encourage you to use it. Using CYMS allows programs to consider extending additional acceptances, helping your peers. Please note that when you use the CYMS tool:

• Schools will not know your individual choice of preferred program, we only see an aggregate of all our accepted applicants. We don't even know who has used CYMS and who hasn't.
• Decisions can be changed every day if you desire with no consequences. They are transmitted to the School Portals overnight.
• Your selection is a non-binding decision until you make it so after April 30.

If you have chosen a program already, congratulations on this tough decision! CYMS is the next step. We strongly believe that you would thrive in our MD/PhD program, however, we understand if another program is better aligned with your priorities.

Best wishes,

Not sure how common this is, but I have not used the tool yet because the school I am leaning towards has not showed up on CYMS. Only one school of three shows up, and the other two gave me offers ~1 month and 2 weeks ago.

 

[Fencer]

Contact the missing school that they do not appear in the CYMS tool. Sometimes is due to a poor communication between the MD/PhD program and the admissions office.

 

[lmari]

I had a question concerning the April 15th traffic rule of having only 3 acceptances by then. I had 5 acceptance offers and withdrew from one school so now I currently have 4. However, many of the revisits are after April 15th but I'd like to attend all 4 revisits. Is this simply not possible/should I be deciding on only 3 schools to go back to revisit? It's a difficult decision to make without even having a chance to go back to the school.