2015-16 PM&R Application Cycle

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MVTiger said:
What's the deal with RIC's interview? I was there last week and while most people got 3 interviews, there was 1 guy who got 4. No explanation. Are they pre selecting people they really want even before the interview?
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I had a similar situation. One guy had 4, and one of my classmates the day before did as well. From what I gathered, those candidates had/were pursuing a PhD as well, so they interviewed with a PhD on top of 3 normal faculty. Not sure if it's true, but it fit what I saw.
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lal4life said:
I had a similar situation. One guy had 4, and one of my classmates the day before did as well. From what I gathered, those candidates had/were pursuing a PhD as well, so they interviewed with a PhD on top of 3 normal faculty. Not sure if it's true, but it fit what I saw.
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I understand every program have certain types of applicants in mind that they prefer over others. But shouldn't programs at least give the impression that they treat everyone the same? I know it is not a huge deal, but they are given people a certain impression by doing what they do.
 
gamrag said:
I understand every program have certain types of applicants in mind that they prefer over others. But shouldn't programs at least give the impression that they treat everyone the same? I know it is not a huge deal, but they are given people a certain impression by doing what they do.
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It could be that RIC is disorganized. After all th did reject me thrice last cycle.

Don't look too much into it.
 
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j4pac said:
It could be that RIC is disorganized. After all th did reject me thrice last cycle.

Don't look too much into it.
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They are somewhat disorganized. They also don't go out of their way to recruit and give people kind of a cold feeling. Not sure how other people felt, but lets just say I didn't leave with the most positive feeling in the world. Not your typical PM&R interview experience.
 
gamrag said:
They are somewhat disorganized. They also don't go out of their way to recruit and give people kind of a cold feeling. Not sure how other people felt, but lets just say I didn't leave with the most positive feeling in the world. Not your typical PM&R interview experience.
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I've heard similar reviews...and it's unfortunate. They're RIC and will never have a problem filling their class with great applicants...but you would think that they would have more pride in what they are and what they are trying to accomplish.
 
So the AAP conference is in mid February in sacramento which is close to where Il be rotating. Is there a benefit in us talking to PD's and whatnot during that time period? Im weighing the pros and cons of going, especially because medical student registration for AAP is 67$
 
Peaceregis said:
So the AAP conference is in mid February in sacramento which is close to where Il be rotating. Is there a benefit in us talking to PD's and whatnot during that time period? Im weighing the pros and cons of going, especially because medical student registration for AAP is 67$
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I had one PD suggest I go during an interview. I think it could be a good opportunity to network. I am worried about cost as well. I am already only able to go on 8 interviews due to cost and I would have to fly across the country to get to Sacramento.
 
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Hey does Spaulding have a dinner/event the night before?
 
Does EVMS have a dinner the night before? I haven't read anything about one in their emails so far...
 
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University of Rochester rejection. I think I will be getting no more invites at this point. Definitely didn't get close to the 17 invites that was the average last year for those who matched.
 
Pmrapplicant11 said:
University of Rochester rejection. I think I will be getting no more invites at this point. Definitely didn't get close to the 17 invites that was the average last year for those who matched.
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If I remember correctly, 12 was more of the magic number based on charting outcomes. But all that matters is that at least one program likes you. Good luck!
 
GottaHaveIt said:
Got a thank you letter from Mayo. Is that typical of them, or should I be excited?
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I didn't get any post interview feedback from Mayo and got accepted. The PD didn't respond to me when I told him that I was ranking his program #1. Their PCs are usually willing to talk to you (though they won't tell you anything about your ranking).

It likely means nothing, other than Mayo being nice folks (which they are).
 
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I have 11 interviews for PM&R and was invited to 18. Guess i'll need 2 more to beat the average ;)
 
pmr25 said:
Yeah US seniors was 12.7 for 2014, is 2015 data out I couldn't find it?

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf
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I think the data was 12.7 interviews for accepted applicants but 17 interview invites. I am definitely worried. I am pretty far below that average but that being said most who matched seem to match in their top 3-5 so I have a lot of hope. I was pretty selective on programs I applied to as well. I don't know if that has something to do with it.
 
Pmrapplicant11 said:
I think the data was 12.7 interviews for accepted applicants but 17 interview invites. I am definitely worried. I am pretty far below that average but that being said most who matched seem to match in their top 3-5 so I have a lot of hope. I was pretty selective on programs I applied to as well. I don't know if that has something to do with it.
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NRMP only knows data pertaining to their match. They don't know how many invites people are getting...only the number of programs ranked.

2015 data hasn't been released (if often gets released every other year anyway). In 2014, US MDs that ranked 12 programs had a 90% chance of matching. Independent applicants (which includes DOs and non-US MDs) that had 13 programs ranked had a 90% chance of matching. There is no standard deviation on the data.

Please understand that MOST applicants that match do so within their top 3. I ranked 10 programs last year as a DO and matched within my top 3. I felt strongly that I would match within my top 3...but it did help me sleep better at night that I ranked 10.

If you don't get 12-13 ranked programs...don't freak out...you'll likely be ok.
 
j4pac said:
NRMP only knows data pertaining to their match. They don't know how many invites people are getting...only the number of programs ranked.

2015 data hasn't been released (if often gets released every other year anyway). In 2014, US MDs that ranked 12 programs had a 90% chance of matching. Independent applicants (which includes DOs and non-US MDs) that had 13 programs ranked had a 90% chance of matching. There is no standard deviation on the data.

Please understand that MOST applicants that match do so within their top 3. I ranked 10 programs last year as a DO and matched within my top 3. I felt strongly that I would match within my top 3...but it did help me sleep better at night that I ranked 10.

If you don't get 12-13 ranked programs...don't freak out...you'll likely be ok.
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Helpful perspective
 
Anyone else feel that Mayo was a bit too much of an ivory tower? Their support staff is so awesome, it almost seem like a negative to me. Feels like they don't prepare you well for all the crap you have to deal with in the real world. Anyone ask their interviewers about this? I kinda of thought about this at the end of the day, and didn't really talk to anyone there about it.
 
gamrag said:
Anyone else feel that Mayo was a bit too much of an ivory tower? Their support staff is so awesome, it almost seem like a negative to me. Feels like they don't prepare you well for all the crap you have to deal with in the real world. Anyone ask their interviewers about this? I kinda of thought about this at the end of the day, and didn't really talk to anyone there about it.
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Lol. Perhaps having Mayo behind your name will help you avoid malignant work environments.
 
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gamrag said:
Anyone else feel that Mayo was a bit too much of an ivory tower? Their support staff is so awesome, it almost seem like a negative to me. Feels like they don't prepare you well for all the crap you have to deal with in the real world. Anyone ask their interviewers about this? I kinda of thought about this at the end of the day, and didn't really talk to anyone there about it.
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I got that vibe at Mayo as well. It's hard to say.

There's a trade off. I went to an ivory tower for undergrad--it was a huge, idyllic bubble, bursting with resources and supportive, intelligent people, and and while I received an exceptional education, I was not at all prepared for the real world when I graduated. Sure, I came out better informed and better skilled, but I struggled to assimilate into the job market...for reasons unrelated to academic preparedness.

That said, having a "big name" on my diploma alone has opened many doors for me, and ultimately I think it was probably worth it. Like I said, it's a trade off.

If I had a sense I was going to end up at a Mayo, RIC, or Kessler, I'd probably prioritize doing my pgy1 in an underserved area or community hospital...but that's only because I know my own tendency to be coddled by the ivory tower. Otherwise, I wouldn't make the mistake of passing up a big name institution with such a great rep. My two cents.
 
I just got what seems to be a rejection for an interview at a program I already had an interview at earlier this month. I was wondering if anyone has experienced this and how they addressed it. Thanks.
 
Pmrapplicant11 said:
I just got what seems to be a rejection for an interview at a program I already had an interview at earlier this month. I was wondering if anyone has experienced this and how they addressed it. Thanks.
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I'm guessing that they didn't take you off the list. I wouldn't sweat it. Contact the PC
 
Nice of RIC to send a card to everyone signed by Dr. Sliwa in person.
 
Zline said:
I got that vibe at Mayo as well. It's hard to say.

There's a trade off. I went to an ivory tower for undergrad--it was a huge, idyllic bubble, bursting with resources and supportive, intelligent people, and and while I received an exceptional education, I was not at all prepared for the real world when I graduated. Sure, I came out better informed and better skilled, but I struggled to assimilate into the job market...for reasons unrelated to academic preparedness.

That said, having a "big name" on my diploma alone has opened many doors for me, and ultimately I think it was probably worth it. Like I said, it's a trade off.

If I had a sense I was going to end up at a Mayo, RIC, or Kessler, I'd probably prioritize doing my pgy1 in an underserved area or community hospital...but that's only because I know my own tendency to be coddled by the ivory tower. Otherwise, I wouldn't make the mistake of passing up a big name institution with such a great rep. My two cents.
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I think you are right on about pgy1. I did mine in a small community hospital and it was great.
 
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Does anyone know the etiquette on telling a program that they are your top choice and you will be ranking them number one. If you know at the interview, can you flat out tell them? Is this something that can help or hurt or does it even matter?
 
pm&r32 said:
Does anyone know the etiquette on telling a program that they are your top choice and you will be ranking them number one. If you know at the interview, can you flat out tell them? Is this something that can help or hurt or does it even matter?
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I would recommend emailing the PD the lyrics to Brian McKnight's "Only One for Me".

When asked, "Why Mayo? on interviews, I answered something along the lines..."I had Mayo ranked #1 at the beginning of the process because _____."

I sent the PD an email telling him that I had ranked his program #1, thanks for the opportunity...after asking the PC if it was appropriate.

He didn't respond to the email until after I matched. I doubt it made a big difference, but obviously it didn't hurt me.
 
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j4pac said:
I would recommend emailing the PD the lyrics to Brian McKnight's "Only One for Me".

When asked, "Why Mayo? on interviews, I answered something along the lines..."I had Mayo ranked #1 at the beginning of the process because _____."

I sent the PD an email telling him that I had ranked his program #1, thanks for the opportunity...after asking the PC if it was appropriate.

He didn't respond to the email until after I matched. I doubt it made a big difference, but obviously it didn't hurt me.
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Honestly...if I was a PD and someone sent me lyrics of a prolific mid-90s r&b artist...that candidate would move up on my list.

Probably reason enough for me to never, ever have anything to do with admissions processes.
 
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Soo...I guess nobody knows if EVMS has a pre-interview dinner?
 
Is cancelling a TY interview one week before the day rude of me?
 
Out of curiosity, does anyone know # of applicants for Stanford interview days?
 
Ghostpepper said:
Is cancelling a TY interview one week before the day rude of me?
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I always gave a 2-week notice, but that's being super polite (and afraid lol). I wouldn't sweat 1 week's notice. What angers them are same-day cancellations/no shows and 1-day cancellations.
 
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Ghostpepper said:
Is cancelling a TY interview one week before the day rude of me?
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Just make sure you call to cancel. You should always call if you're cancelling on short notice--it's polite to the program, and even more polite to the person they will try to offer your spot to, as sometimes they will need to shuffle things around, make travel arrangements, etc.
 
pmr25 said:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know # of applicants for Stanford interview days?
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I was just there and they have 20 applicants at a time. There are only 3 interview dates and they interview only ~60 to fill 7 spots.
 
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As we get closer to the end, was wondering if we're going to have another thread where people can talk about their impressions for different programs and offer advice on how to rank places.
 
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I'm having a tough time deciding between Mayo, UW, and Stanford. Any opinions? I was reading some threads here previously that Stanford was disorganized but the program seemed great to me.
 
I had very high hopes for UW and thought I would like it more than I did. They seem to have a good program with mostly an outpatient focus, although they are expanding the inpatient side. I thought the residents were the friendliest that I met on the interview trail and were great to get along with. They seemed very happy to be at UW. However, I thought that their patient volume and amount of work to be extremely low. I was told they usually had to 'fudge' their hours to make it to 40 per week.
 
studerman said:
I'm having a tough time deciding between Mayo, UW, and Stanford. Any opinions? I was reading some threads here previously that Stanford was disorganized but the program seemed great to me.
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You're gonna have to give more input about what you're looking for and why it's a tough decision for you if you want to get more than just a pissing contest of replies. My loss of interest in Stanford was made clear on these forums last year, but that being said I don't think the program leadership was disorganized so much as the PC and chiefs.
 
studerman said:
I'm having a tough time deciding between Mayo, UW, and Stanford. Any opinions? I was reading some threads here previously that Stanford was disorganized but the program seemed great to me.
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I don't know if Dr. Teraoka was the PD at that time (he was as of 2013), but it looks like Dr. Kennedy is the PD now. Dr. Teraoka was super nice and a really great guy to work with, but he wasn't the most ambitious guy--he was just the more laid back and relaxed type of guy, so he was really approachable. Really great role model. Dr. Kennedy on the other hand is one of the most energetic and go-getter type guys you'll ever meet (Dr. Cifu at VCU is another attending with TONS of energy). Dr. Kennedy was extremely focused on teaching, resident well-being, and really taking Stanford's spine program somewhere. I would imagine as the PD he's going to want to improve the residency program a lot more. Hopefully he'll help the PM&R program live up to the Stanford name. I have no doubt he'll improve the program, and hopefully in time create a strong west-coast rival to UW.

I rotated at two CA programs an interviewed at one additional one, and I felt like Stanford was definitely the strongest CA program. With that said, UW (I assume you mean Washington, correct?) and Mayo have the "better" names in PM&R. Each program really has it's own strengths and as the above poster mentioned, you really need to tell us more about what you're looking for in a program for us to give better feedback. Interested in outpatient PM&R only, and MSK U/S? Then it's all about Mayo. Want really solid research exposure? Mayo or UW. Interested in VA polytrauma? Then Stanford. Can't tolerated cold? Stanford! Want to live where they aren't in a drought and get rain all year? UW! Want to afford a place to live and not have a miserable commute? Mayo! We could go on...

All three are great programs--you just have to figure out what you need from a program (geography, proximity to family, dedicated rehab units instead of all-in-one, or visa-versa, etc.). Then think about what you want (more outpatient focus, friendlier atmosphere, etc.). Then think about which program felt like the right place. That's basically how I came up with my rank list.
 
Can finally start ranking programs on NRMP!

Just wondering what people's opinion of RIC vs. Kessler? Obviously both places offer great training, but for people who have seen both programs, what do you guys think about how they stack up in terms of preparing you for an academic career in research? Things like mentorship, getting involved in research projects as well as the support they give residents and protected time?

Does one program have an advantage over the other?
 
Hey all. Thanks for the concise and timely responses. Ah, it's just so hard to choose with all of them but RIC, Spaulding, Baylor, UPMC, and Emory were easier to leave out of my top 3 because my wife does not really have job opportunities there. I guess between the 3 listed, there really isn't a "bad" choice as they are all top programs. I am not sure how high Stanford is but Dr. Kennedy made it sound like they do extremely well with presentations, fellowships, grants, jobs, boards, etc.

I think, I ultimately want to do spine/sport, but I'm undecided with Peds and biomechanical research still lingering in my mind.

I know Mayo and UW would set me up for that, probably Mayo more so? Stanford like your saying does seem to be on the up and coming with their spine/pain with Dr. Kennedy and Dr. Smuck. Dr. Teraoka was awesome with a great personality! I thought I gelled really well with the faculty and residents at all three. I liked that Stanford and UW residents seemed to do more social activities together, I attribute that partially because of nicer weather and ample destinations. I also like you can moonlight all years ag Mayo and Stanford.

I guess, 5 yrs from now when it comes to prospectus jobs, all three would essentially be equal..?

Thanks once again.
 
Does anyone have any advice on ranking programs in the middle of the list? These are the ones that seem to be stumping me as to where to put them. I have clear-cut top and bottom programs, but not so much in the middle. I guess location would be a good start?
 
studerman said:
Hey all. Thanks for the concise and timely responses. Ah, it's just so hard to choose with all of them but RIC, Spaulding, Baylor, UPMC, and Emory were easier to leave out of my top 3 because my wife does not really have job opportunities there. I guess between the 3 listed, there really isn't a "bad" choice as they are all top programs. I am not sure how high Stanford is but Dr. Kennedy made it sound like they do extremely well with presentations, fellowships, grants, jobs, boards, etc.

I think, I ultimately want to do spine/sport, but I'm undecided with Peds and biomechanical research still lingering in my mind.

I know Mayo and UW would set me up for that, probably Mayo more so? Stanford like your saying does seem to be on the up and coming with their spine/pain with Dr. Kennedy and Dr. Smuck. Dr. Teraoka was awesome with a great personality! I thought I gelled really well with the faculty and residents at all three. I liked that Stanford and UW residents seemed to do more social activities together, I attribute that partially because of nicer weather and ample destinations. I also like you can moonlight all years ag Mayo and Stanford.

I guess, 5 yrs from now when it comes to prospectus jobs, all three would essentially be equal..?

Thanks once again.
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It's hard to say how Stanford will compare in 5 years, but certainly Mayo and UW will open up plenty of doors for jobs. If you want to be in the Bay Area, Stanford may help more to establish ties--I got the impression most stayed local. And like I said, Stanford's name is growing and I think will continue to grow. I think it's one of the few programs you hear people say "is going places" that actually is. They've done a great job of recruiting top medical students from UCSF and other programs, and they've brought in new faculty over the past few years, so it seems like there's a sustained effort to improve the program.

I approached my rank list like you--first I figured out what programs am I not willing to go to (really none--I preferred any PM&R program to not matching!! But certainly there were some I didn't think I'd be that happy at), and what programs are in areas my wife doesn't want to go to. She really didn't want to live in the South, which had two programs I thought were good fits for me (including one of my favorites).

That left me with three top choices--a well-rounded one near my family (important if you're married, thinking about having kids) that seemed like an decent fit for me, one of the "Top 5" programs that seemed like an good fit, and a "above average" program that to me was the best/perfect fit of any program, but far from family.

I ended up ranking them in that order-- the "compromise," the "name," and then the "fit." The day after I submitted my rank list I regretted ranking the name program above the better fit. But it was too late to do anything at that point, and I knew I'd still be quite happy at that program.

In the end, I matched to the "fit" program and I'm quite thankful for it. And to be honest, the odds are if you match at any of your top 3 choices you'll be quite happy and feel like it's the place you were meant to be. Everyone's going to have different opinions on how to rank the three programs you list.

Honestly, as long as no program has any major limitations for you (ie, broad exposure, especially to the things that interest you), then I don't think you could go wrong with any of those three. So make sure you go somewhere that leave all those options open. And if that happens to be all three programs, go to the one you'd be happiest at.
 
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