2015-16 PM&R Application Cycle

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MusicIsLife511 said:
Does anyone have any advice on ranking programs in the middle of the list? These are the ones that seem to be stumping me as to where to put them. I have clear-cut top and bottom programs, but not so much in the middle. I guess location would be a good start?
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I had a hard time with that too. What it came down to was "would I be happier to match here or here." Generally the middle programs lacked something, but those with big deficiencies were at the bottom of my list, so I really just thought more about where I'd be happier to be...
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RangerBob said:
I had a hard time with that too. What it came down to was "would I be happier to match here or here." Generally the middle programs lacked something, but those with big deficiencies were at the bottom of my list, so I really just thought more about where I'd be happier to be...
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I agree. The top and bottom are clearer. Honestly, I think ranking the middle of my list I gave more weight to location because it was a known quantity.
 
I went full nerd-mode with my mid-tier choices. I listed the different attributes of a program: inpatient, outpatient, prestige, location...then I weighted each based on how important I felt which attribute was. Then I assigned points for each program.

I may have used algebra, calculus, and string theory somewhere along the line.
 
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I am a OMS3 and will be applying for PMR next year, if any of this years applicants, more specifically DO applicants but MD as well could DM i would forever be appreciated need advice. Thanks everybody in this thread and good luck to all of you, I hope to join you one day!
 
In terms of the "strong interest" emails we can send to programs, should those go to PD and PC or chair and PC?
 
swimMD said:
In terms of the "strong interest" emails we can send to programs, should those go to PD and PC or chair and PC?
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Not really sure. I think it depends on who you feel that you developed the best relationship with. I think sending an email to any of those people would do about the same thing. I would think that if the program really waits for emails to see if you're interested, that they would have some process of marking it on your application/ranking list no matter if you send it to any of those 3 people.

I have sent out some thank you cards to my top choices, expressing my interest in their program. I think I sent them to the PD. I wasn't planning on sending out any "strong interest" emails. I'm not sure if thats a good idea or a bad idea. I kind of get the feeling that some students send "strong interest" emails/letters to just about every program they interview at, just to hopefully increase their odds of matching. However, I'm pretty sure the PDs, PCs and chair know this, and even though they get "strong interest" emails, they still don't know if that applicant is really going to rank their program in the top 3. So whether or not the strong interest emails even do anything in regards to the program ranking you higher, or if they even read them, is sort of unknown or program specific.
 
I wrote thank you cards to all of the programs I attended...mainly to tell them thanks for the hospitality of their staff and residents.

I asked my top three if they had any spots outside of the match before the date to certify...just to make sure.

I sent an email to Mayo telling them that they are number 1 on my list...thanks for the opportunity to interview.

I did all of the above through the PC. I don't recommend communicating with the PD...it just can be misinterpreted. For instance, I hate spam emails. It pisses me off. I suppose that if I was a PD getting hundreds of thank you notes and "your my #1" notes...I would get pissed off as well. I would probably have my PC screen the notes first. Send emails and letters to the PC, and he/she will forward them along accordingly.
 
Anyone have any input for Jeff vs Penn? Looking to stay in Philly, interested in general rehab and somewhat interested in sports. Been comparing resident life (call, inpt month stress level, etc), overall program strength, and potential for jobs/fellowships. Just curious if anyone else was interests in either/both and had any input to share.
 
I sent thank you emails to everyone I interviewed with. I've gotten some pretty nice responses back from PDs as well as other faculty. It all depends on whether you really make a connection or not during the interview. Who knows if I will match there or not. I don't think it makes any difference, but it's something nice to do. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Especially for the competitive programs, they already made up their minds. Sending extra notes is not going to change anything. They will rank whoever they like best, you just rank who you like best.

Having gone on all these interviews, I get the feeling that sometimes they already made up their mind before you even show up. The first couple of minutes after they meet you basically confirms that opinion. After that, what you say really doesn't matter. If they like you, they like you. Just be yourself and hopefully it works out.
 
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Rehab_guy_sports said:
Anyone have any input for Jeff vs Penn? Looking to stay in Philly, interested in general rehab and somewhat interested in sports. Been comparing resident life (call, inpt month stress level, etc), overall program strength, and potential for jobs/fellowships. Just curious if anyone else was interests in either/both and had any input to share.
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I didn't interview at UPenn, but from what I've heard, they are the weakest program amongst the Philly places (although they are definitely getting stronger!). From what I've heard from residents and attendings in tri-state area, the order is Jefferson > Temple > UPenn in terms of strongest residency programs. But of course, if you're not interested in SCI as much, you probably wouldn't pick Jefferson as they do more SCI and even inpatient than most programs. Temple is more focused on MSK/Sports, so that would be good for those interested in that. I'm not too sure about UPenn.
 
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MusicIsLife511 said:
I didn't interview at UPenn, but from what I've heard, they are the weakest program amongst the Philly places (although they are definitely getting stronger!). From what I've heard from residents and attendings in tri-state area, the order is Jefferson > Temple > UPenn in terms of strongest residency programs. But of course, if you're not interested in SCI as much, you probably wouldn't pick Jefferson as they do more SCI and even inpatient than most programs. Temple is more focused on MSK/Sports, so that would be good for those interested in that. I'm not too sure about UPenn.
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I think this is similar to what someone posted in the 'help me rank please' thread about the super 6 programs. In rehab a lot of the "big names" are big because of their reputation in rehab, which usually means inpatient rehab services. The same is true in Philly. Temple (Moss) and Jefferson (Magee) are big names in Philly because of their associated well regarded rehab hospitals. Penn's rehab hospital is relatively new and in the rehab world lags behind Moss and Magee. However, residency applicants should to an extent disassociate the reputation of the associated rehab hospital from the residency program, especially as it pertains to an applicant's specific area of focus. For example, if you're interested in sports medicine you may not care as much about "model system in SCI" but may care about opportunities for sports medicine coverage. In this case, Penn has more access to Division I sports and teams than the other Philly programs for resident coverage (Jeff/Rothman has pro teams but residents don't have access to those; Penn has more sports teams than Temple).

Not to mention that the quality of residency programs can shift quickly, while hospital reputations are much more set. Since Penn hired its new chair about 5 years ago, the quality of the residents and the residency program has greatly improved. I don't necessarily believe in comparing lists of where former residents go (there's lots of variability and small sample sizes), but for what it's worth here are Jeff's, Temple's, and Penn's lists. If you're into this type of comparison, there's little to no difference between the programs. So, bottom line in terms of residency experience and potential for competitive fellowships and jobs, you can't go wrong with any of the Philly programs.
 
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Has anyone received second look invitations? There's one program I'm debating asking for one, but I'm not sure what to expect or what I'd get out of it compared to interview day.. I also wasn't sure if second looks are common in the PM&R field or not.
 
pmr16 said:
Has anyone received second look invitations? There's one program I'm debating asking for one, but I'm not sure what to expect or what I'd get out of it compared to interview day.. I also wasn't sure if second looks are common in the PM&R field or not.
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I'm sure it's happened before. I think you'd have to ask yourself what you would really gain by doing a second look. In my mind, the only gain you would get is to see the facilities one more time. Maybe to talk to some of the residents again and see if you get along with them more vs other programs; however only the PGY-2's will be present when we start our PM&R residencies. I would think most other questions could be answered with an email to the PD or a phone call. I guess the thing I would worry about in requesting a second look is passing off the vibe that you 'only kinda like the program, but really aren't sure.' I think it may also be perceived as being a little annoying to the staff, who have to dedicate more time to this process. Just my thoughts...
 
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pmr16 said:
Has anyone received second look invitations? There's one program I'm debating asking for one, but I'm not sure what to expect or what I'd get out of it compared to interview day.. I also wasn't sure if second looks are common in the PM&R field or not.
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Leave a little bit to the imagination, it creates intrigue. Don't go full Monte the interview process. Overexposure is a real risk.
 
DMBandFan86 said:
I had very high hopes for UW and thought I would like it more than I did. They seem to have a good program with mostly an outpatient focus, although they are expanding the inpatient side. I thought the residents were the friendliest that I met on the interview trail and were great to get along with. They seemed very happy to be at UW. However, I thought that their patient volume and amount of work to be extremely low. I was told they usually had to 'fudge' their hours to make it to 40 per week.
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Is this about Washington UW? Because they are inpatient-heavy R2 year, which transitions to include more outpatient toward R4 year. And they're definitely not expanding their inpatient care side.
 
canibuyavowel said:
Is this about Washington UW? Because they are inpatient-heavy R2 year, which transitions to include more outpatient toward R4 year. And they're definitely not expanding their inpatient care side.
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No I was thinking UW as Wisconsin
 
Anybody have any reflections on which programs had the best outpatient MSK training (other than Mayo)?
 
Gary Chutch said:
Anybody have any reflections on which programs had the best outpatient MSK training (other than Mayo)?
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I think UVA and Carolinas have very strong outpatient MSK with a lot of opportunities outside of clinic duties to further enhance those skills. VCU also has pretty good opportunities as well. Plus the weather in those places definitely beat that of Mayo.
 
Gary Chutch said:
Anybody have any reflections on which programs had the best outpatient MSK training (other than Mayo)?
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UT San Antonio has a great outpatient program and has a lot of autonomy when it comes to interventional pain injections, EMGs, trigger points, etc.
 
swimMD said:
I think UVA and Carolinas have very strong outpatient MSK with a lot of opportunities outside of clinic duties to further enhance those skills. VCU also has pretty good opportunities as well. Plus the weather in those places definitely beat that of Mayo.
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SwimMD- can you elaborate on the outpatient opportunities at Carolinas? From what I remember they work alongside rehab doctors in orthopedic practices. I understand that their inpatient exposure is one of largest patient volumes in the country. They have their main rehab hospital on the main campus, then also satellite hospitals in some of the suburbs of Charlotte. All the residents seemed very happy with their training and the lifestyle of living in Charlotte.
 
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PMR4life2016 said:
SwimMD- can you elaborate on the outpatient opportunities at Carolinas? From what I remember they work alongside rehab doctors in orthopedic practices. I understand that their inpatient exposure is one of largest patient volumes in the country. They have their main rehab hospital on the main campus, then also satellite hospitals in some of the suburbs of Charlotte. All the residents seemed very happy with their training and the lifestyle of living in Charlotte.
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So for me, I have a strong interest in sports and talked to a couple of the residents about these opportunities since none if it's really listed on the website or discussed during the day. They mentioned that the program is very flexible and wants you to be able to explore your areas of interest. There are several opportunities already in place and constantly being announced amongst the residents of sideline coverage for various sports: hockey, football, basketball, etc. And the residents really emphasized that if there was a sport that wasn't already being covered or there was something else that you wanted additional time in, such as EMGs, the program administration would make it happen for you.
 
Thanks for the thoughts on Outpatient MSK. How did Stanford's MSK training stack up? Also, did the Stanford residents speak on the feasibility of living in Palo Alto on a resident's salary?
 
Wonder if most programs have finished their rank list or are just starting.
 
Hey all, was wondering if someone could clarify something for me regarding the primary rank order list. For the "suppl ROL" column, each box on my list currently says "none" for all of the advanced programs. Is that correct or do I need to change it to the "A-supplemental ROL" option. Thanks!
 
Any advanced position should have an associated supplemental rank order list. So, with each advanced position you rank, you need to have a supplemental rank order list in the adjacent column. If you only have one supplemental rank order list, then it would be listed as "A-Supplemental ROL". If you have multiple supplemental lists, e.g. regionally-dependent supplemental lists, then you would list those according to whichever specific advanced position you are ranking.

I know it's a bit confusing, but make sure to have something in the supplemental category for every advanced position you rank or else you run the risk of matching into a PGY-2 position and having to SOAP for a prelim/transitional year...which wouldn't be fun from what I hear.

Hope this helps and good luck.
 
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Gast Rock said:
Any advanced position should have an associated supplemental rank order list. So, with each advanced position you rank, you need to have a supplemental rank order list in the adjacent column. If you only have one supplemental rank order list, then it would be listed as "A-Supplemental ROL". If you have multiple supplemental lists, e.g. regionally-dependent supplemental lists, then you would list those according to whichever specific advanced position you are ranking.

I know it's a bit confusing, but make sure to have something in the supplemental category for every advanced position you rank or else you run the risk of matching into a PGY-2 position and having to SOAP for a prelim/transitional year...which wouldn't be fun from what I hear.

Hope this helps and good luck.
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Thanks a lot that helps clarify things!
 
rank list certified

good luck everyone
 
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Three weeks is a long time to wait.
 
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Just curious since I've seen it for the past years, anyone start a ROL for this year?
 
Good luck today gals and guys!
 
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me too! matched! whooo...I guess I'm happy to go anywhere I ranked, so the big stress is finally over
 
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Grats to everyone that matched. Now have to wait till Friday...
 
Pmrapplicant11 said:
I'm very happy about my Match though so as long as this SOAP works it will be worth it in my mind.
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That's good that your advanced program worked out. If you are struggling to find a prelim year...it wouldn't be a bad idea to contact your advanced program to ask for assistance. It's in their interest to see that you match prelim.
 
j4pac said:
That's good that your advanced program worked out. If you are struggling to find a prelim year...it wouldn't be a bad idea to contact your advanced program to ask for assistance. It's in their interest to see that you match prelim.
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Thank you. That sounds like great advice.
 
Pmrapplicant11 said:
Thank you. That sounds like great advice.
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I think you need to be very careful about how you phrase talking with them. I think it's ok to ask your advanced program for advice, and they can probably talk with their own pre-lim program if their pre-lim didn't match, but if you initiate any contact with a pre-lim program outside of ERAS, I believe that is a Match violation. And you would have to make sure to apply to that pre-lim--if your program talks to them, they can't call you or offer you an invite unless you applied for a position there (otherwise they're committing a match violation--which I doubt you'd report, but because it'd be a violation, they probably wouldn't contact you in the first place to say "apply to our program.")
 
RangerBob said:
I think you need to be very careful about how you phrase talking with them. I think it's ok to ask your advanced program for advice, and they can probably talk with their own pre-lim program if their pre-lim didn't match, but if you initiate any contact with a pre-lim program outside of ERAS, I believe that is a Match violation. And you would have to make sure to apply to that pre-lim--if your program talks to them, they can't call you or offer you an invite unless you applied for a position there (otherwise they're committing a match violation--which I doubt you'd report, but because it'd be a violation, they probably wouldn't contact you in the first place to say "apply to our program.")
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Damn. That's a good point.

@Pmrapplicant11
There is currently a thread going on GENERAL RESIDENCY ISSUES...ERAS/NRMP MATCH...it would probably be a very good question to ask the handful of PDs that are hanging out there. If you have already match to said program...is it really a match violation to tell them "Thanks!". I didn't do it last year...I waited until Friday to do so. I'm kind of glad I didn't now...I didn't even think about the possibility that it could be a match violation. Definitely look in on it...if it's not a match violation, then it could potentially help you. Also..it's a no brainer to get your med school involved. Good luck.
 
@Pmrapplicant11

By the letter of the law it looks like it could be a match violation to contact your advanced PD. But logically...I HIGHLY doubt that would ever occur...for a few reasons. 1) It's not the intent of the rule. The rule is there to prevent applicants from harassing PDs involved in the SOAP. I don't believe telling the PD "Thanks, I love forward to getting started" or even asking for help violates the intent of the rule. 2) It would require the PD to call "match violation" on you. Why would they do that and lose a matched applicant that they are likely looking forward to having? It makes no sense that they would get you in trouble...much more likely they will try to help you.

It's a tough situation, and I would try to get clarity on it. Personally if it was me, and I was running out of options, I would probably get the PD involved. But that's only because I'd be willing to gamble and I see the upside of matching being higher than the downside of a very weak match violate that could probably be contested and overturned in court (though I highly doubt it would ever go that far).

Good luck either way.
 
j4pac said:
@Pmrapplicant11

By the letter of the law it looks like it could be a match violation to contact your advanced PD. But logically...I HIGHLY doubt that would ever occur...for a few reasons. 1) It's not the intent of the rule. The rule is there to prevent applicants from harassing PDs involved in the SOAP. I don't believe telling the PD "Thanks, I love forward to getting started" or even asking for help violates the intent of the rule. 2) It would require the PD to call "match violation" on you. Why would they do that and lose a matched applicant that they are likely looking forward to having? It makes no sense that they would get you in trouble...much more likely they will try to help you.

It's a tough situation, and I would try to get clarity on it. Personally if it was me, and I was running out of options, I would probably get the PD involved. But that's only because I'd be willing to gamble and I see the upside of matching being higher than the downside of a very weak match violate that could probably be contested and overturned in court (though I highly doubt it would ever go that far).

Good luck either way.
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The good news is I matched in Round 1 so no more need to stress. Thanks for all the advice. Can't wait to be part of the PM&R crowd!
 
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Matched advanced. DO student.
Waiting for SOAP to end to apply to AOA prelim year spots.
 
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PM me if you match to Mayo. Congrats all.
 
matched in an advanced program in main match, but no pgy1. Can anyone give some advises what should i do? any other ways to secure a pgy1 after the match? Thanks a lot.
 
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