2009-2010 Mount Sinai Application Thread

[jbz24]

It's interesting how far Baylor dropped. Sinai went through a similar thing in the early 2000s with financial trouble, and dropped to 32 in the rankings. I think this is the first I've seen Sinai crack the top 20 though.

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[Steeler7588]

It's interesting how far Baylor dropped. Sinai went through a similar thing in the early 2000s with financial trouble, and dropped to 32 in the rankings. I think this is the first I've seen Sinai crack the top 20 though.

Correct. Sinai used to be ranked 23 and 22 back in the early 2000s. Whatever methodology US News is using, Sinai has quite the yo-yo effect with that data.

 

[justscared]

Has Sinai quit interviewing?

 

[justinbaily]

Has Sinai quit interviewing?

Yes.

 

[adele87]

This may have been asked before, but can any 3rd or 4th year students comment on clinical rotations at Sinai? Are med students required to do a lot of scut at the expense of their education?

 

[olefin]

Anybody know how many hours a day (roughly) MSSM MD students spend in lecture/class during the first 1-2 years? I somehow missed this piece of information when I interviewed there.

 

[mdeast]

Just out of curiosity...what's the orientation program at Sinai like?

 

[jbz24]

This may have been asked before, but can any 3rd or 4th year students comment on clinical rotations at Sinai? Are med students required to do a lot of scut at the expense of their education?

In terms of scut, it really depends who your residents are. Most of my rotations had no scut, but there were one or two where yes, I had some. It's hard to avoid scut at any hospital. Btw, scut to me is when your resident makes you do annoying calls, filling out forms that the intern should be filling out, staying around when you're obviously done with your work and doing nothing, stuff like that. If scut to you is blood draws, IVs, etc., then there's minimal scut because the ancillary staff is excellent.

In terms of 3rd year stuff, I'm going to copy and paste a reply to a PM since it's easier for me

During the end of 2nd year, if you go to Sinai you will enter a lottery for the order and place of where you will do your third year rotations. Not everything during third year is at Mount Sinai but a majority is. I'll try and highlight the other main sites, pros and cons, just so you get an idea what they're like.

- Elmhurst - main affiliate site in Queens. You are required to do 3 weeks of general surgery here. You can also potentially do a month of medicine, peds, obgyn, psych, and neuro here. There's a shuttle that leaves to and from every 1-2 hours, so you never need to worry about commuting (it's a 25 min shuttle ride). There's also a subway if you want to take, which sometimes is convenient if you get off work right after the shuttle leaves and you don't want to wait for the next one. Elmhurst is Sinai's "Bellevue." Exact same feel, similar patient population, similar autonomy in handling your patients. Many of the attendings are Sinai attendings or did their training at Sinai, so same level academically as Mount Sinai hospital. It's a level 1 trauma center, which is why 3 weeks of surgery are done there so you can see and deal with true trauma patients. Pros at Elmhurst are: you deal with bread and butter cases (patients are less complicated and you usually deal with 1-2 major problems per patient, unlike at Mount Sinai where patients can have 5-10 major problems), tons of autonomy to manage your patients and do procedures. Cons are: less guidance from attendings, less devoted teaching time than at Mount Sinai, and potentially a higher workload if you get unlucky. I found Elmhurst to be an awesome place to learn for a student, so I opted to do a couple of my rotations there. But I still think Mount Sinai Hospital is the best place because of the mix of autonomy and guidance/teaching from attendings. Elmhurst suffers from the same problems as Bellevue - great place to manage your own patients yourself and do procedures yourself, but lacking in the academic and teaching areas.

- Bronx VA - nothing required there, but you can do a month of medicine, psych, and neuro. Similar shuttle situation as Elmhurst, so you never have to worry about commuting. The pros and cons of the Bronx VA is similar to any VA. Great place to learn bread and butter cases (especially for neuro and psych), easier workload, better hours. Cons are: being in the Bronx (so you won't really go out and explore, like you would at Elmhurst which has THE best places to eat), patients are largely male. It's a good experience to at least do for one month so you get a feel for what a VA hospital is like, but I don't think it's as good of a place to learn compared to Mount Sinai or Elmhurst.

- Morristown, NJ - can potentially do a month of medicine, obgyn, peds. You basically have to live at NJ for the month, although only like 2 people go there per rotation so you can avoid doing it at Morristown if you don't want to live away. They do not have daily shuttles (because it is >1 hour away) but provide shuttles to bring you to and from during the weekend. They provide free housing at Morristown for the month. Even though this is the furthest place to potentially do a rotation, they are desirable because it is by far the easiest place in terms of workload and hours and an easy way to get a good grade. So if you absolutely know for sure you don't want to go into a specialty like obgyn or peds, it's a great place to do it at.

There are also some other minor places that you can do rotations at, but I wouldn't worry about them. Generally it's a pretty good experience to do most of your rotations at Mount Sinai but be able to experience other hospitals like Elmhurst (community hospital), Bronx VA (VA system), and Morristown (private hospital). Since every place has a shuttle system (except for Morristown), it's not inconvenient to get there if that's a worry.

I personally think NYU and Sinai have the best systems set up for clinical rotations in NY. NYU's is the same basically: Bellevue (community hospital), Tisch/Langone (like Mount Sinai Hospital), and Manhattan VA. Theirs are conveniently within a 10 block radius though, which is nice.

Didn't get to comment much about Mount Sinai Hospital there, but I found it to be the best hospital to do rotations at. You work hard, probably the hardest of any of the sites, but it is the best learning experience. Very academic, good mix of autonomy and teaching, top faculty, etc. Also it's close to Aron Hall, which saves time.

 

[jbz24]

Anybody know how many hours a day (roughly) MSSM MD students spend in lecture/class during the first 1-2 years? I somehow missed this piece of information when I interviewed there.

Classes during the first two years are a mix of lectures, small group sessions, and labs. Lectures which make up a bulk of class time are optional and almost always videotaped and streamed online. So if you miss a class, or just hate going to lecture, you never have to. Small group sessions, usually about going over cases relevant to previous lectures, and labs are required to go to.

For the most part, during the first year, Mondays and Fridays are 9 to 12 am, and are mostly lectures with some small groups. Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays are the same in the mornings. For Tuesdays and Thursdays in the afternoon, you generally have lab (anatomy lab or histology lab). When I took it back in the day, it would last from 1 pm to 4 or 5 pm. I'm not sure what time it ends now though, if it's the same or if it changed. Wednesday afternoons you will spend your time in Art and Science of Medicine. In this class, the first couple of months are about professionalism/ethics/cultural issues in medicine/learning about health care proxies. After that, you will then learn how to take histories, do physical exams, and then start seeing patients in the hospital. Also during first year (if it's still the same), the first one month or so starts a little earlier at 8 am because of embryology.

Second year is a bit different. Less labs, but more lectures and small groups. Again, lectures are optional, so there's always a handful of classmates who never show up. Much more material this year, but the material is less about memorization like first year is and the material is much more interesting, since most of it is pathophysiology which you will use during your clinical years and beyond.

 

[jbz24]

Just out of curiosity...what's the orientation program at Sinai like?

I don't even remember my orientation at all. I vaguely remember some wine party the first night where we met everyone, the next day we met some faculty, heard from some patients in a lecture room. I think there was also a lot of bookkeeping work, like getting pictures taken for IDs, filling out paperwork.

 

[dw2158]

jbz, thanks for all the info. super interesting and helpful

 

[jbz24]

jbz, thanks for all the info. super interesting and helpful

No problem, PM me or ask here if you have any other questions

 

[adele87]

jbz, thanks for all the info. super interesting and helpful

yup, thank you!! that's really helpful.

 

[olefin]

Yes, thanks for all the info, jbz! I'm happy to hear that Sinai doesn't have 8-5pm daily classes or anything like that!

 

[dw2158]

anyone else THRILLED with their financial aid package?!?!?!

so, i'm pretty sure i'll be heading to sinai now

 

[mdeast]

anyone else THRILLED with their financial aid package?!?!?!

so, i'm pretty sure i'll be heading to sinai now

I'm so not on top on things...just sent in my tax returns today (my parents filed late)! Hoping they may still get to me before May 15th. But, doesn't matter anyway...I'm still enrolling regardless of financial aid.

Sinai

 

[TaylorMDhopeful]

anyone else THRILLED with their financial aid package?!?!?!

so, i'm pretty sure i'll be heading to sinai now

You got it already??? When did you have all of your paperwork in?

Did it come by snail mail? or email?

 

[dw2158]

You got it already??? When did you have all of your paperwork in?

Did it come by snail mail? or email?

email. i had my paperwork in at the end of march, i think.

 

[TaylorMDhopeful]

email. i had my paperwork in at the end of march, i think.

Cool, thanks! I guess I'll have to wait a lil bit.

 

[jbz24]

anyone else THRILLED with their financial aid package?!?!?!

so, i'm pretty sure i'll be heading to sinai now

You don't want to live in Washington Heights anyway

 

[dw2158]

You don't want to live in Washington Heights anyway

ha i know!! that's why there's a tiny part of me that would be fine if i didn't get off the waitlist

i'm an uptown girl, but not THAT far uptown. oh my god, i'm so excited.

 

[jbz24]

ha i know!! that's why there's a tiny part of me that would be fine if i didn't get off the waitlist

i'm an uptown girl, but not THAT far uptown. oh my god, i'm so excited.

It's a shame they didn't build their med school campus near their undergrad campus

 

[dw2158]

It's a shame they didn't build their med school campus near their undergrad campus

yeah. i wouldn't have minded 4 more years there. though i think being in a low-income 'hood like WaHi has its advantages for medical training. but east harlem's not so bad either

 

[jbz24]

yeah. i wouldn't have minded 4 more years there. though i think being in a low-income 'hood like WaHi has its advantages for medical training. but east harlem's not so bad either

Yeah I was kidding but it definitely does have it's advantages. Although Washington Heights is something like 90-95% Dominican. Very homogeneous.

 

[dw2158]

Yeah I was kidding but it definitely does have it's advantages. Although Washington Heights is something like 90-95% Dominican. Very homogeneous.

truth. i'm sure i'll get to use my spanish en el barrio anyway!

 

[jbz24]

truth. i'm sure i'll get to use my spanish en el barrio anyway!

You'll be able to use your Spanish in any NYC hospital

 

[dw2158]

You'll be able to use your Spanish in any NYC hospital

also true.

hey, a question for you since you were so helpful in describing the clinical training. how is the student life stuff there? since sinai's not affiliated with a university, is there less administrative support for student clubs/groups? particularly, i'm interested in arts-related stuff (i sing and dance). are there a lot of clubs, and is there a good student community feeling?

 

[jbz24]

also true.

hey, a question for you since you were so helpful in describing the clinical training. how is the student life stuff there? since sinai's not affiliated with a university, is there less administrative support for student clubs/groups? particularly, i'm interested in arts-related stuff (i sing and dance). are there a lot of clubs, and is there a good student community feeling?

I think there's plenty of administrative support for clubs and groups. There's a LOT of arts-related activities. Sinai Arts, Dancin' @ Sinai, Art of Anatomy, Coffee Houses where students perform, end of the year show put together by students (similar to Columbia's Varsity Show), there are a few Met trips built into third year curriculum, Dean Muller and some faculty used to take students to the Met also, not sure if they still do. There are tons of other art related activities - photograph contests, art exhibits, etc.

There are also lots of other non-art related clubs. There's a very diverse selection that should fit most people's needs. I think the community is great, one of the strongest positives about Sinai. The only thing I miss sometimes are a campus, like Columbia's. But Central Park is close enough for that.

 

[aaj117]

also true.

hey, a question for you since you were so helpful in describing the clinical training. how is the student life stuff there? since sinai's not affiliated with a university, is there less administrative support for student clubs/groups? particularly, i'm interested in arts-related stuff (i sing and dance). are there a lot of clubs, and is there a good student community feeling?

Just to second what JBZ said, there is a lot of arts stuff both at sinai and in the area. There's an art of anatomy class, there are a lot of coffeehouses of like performance stuff, this year i was in the vagina monologues, there are class shows, etc. It's a good environment for that. I also have classmates who are members of outside choirs, bands, orchestras, etc.

 

[dw2158]

cool, thanks guys! i'm getting so ridiculously excited.

 

[mdeast]

Sounds cool guys. Good luck with Columbia dw. Did you do undergrad there?

 

[dw2158]

Sounds cool guys. Good luck with Columbia dw. Did you do undergrad there?

maybe... i guess my anonymity is shot by this point anyway

 

[47ind]

Im currently on the waitlist at Sinai.
I know people posted earlier about how they rank their waitlist... I was wondering if anyone knew if they change those 'rankings' if people have significant updates to tell Sinai.

A paper that my PI submitted a while ago just got accepted (i'm first author)...so I sent Dr. Parkas an update letter with that in it. Just wanted to get opinions- does anyone think that matters at this point?

Thanks!

 

[jbz24]

Im currently on the waitlist at Sinai.
I know people posted earlier about how they rank their waitlist... I was wondering if anyone knew if they change those 'rankings' if people have significant updates to tell Sinai.

A paper that my PI submitted a while ago just got accepted (i'm first author)...so I sent Dr. Parkas an update letter with that in it. Just wanted to get opinions- does anyone think that matters at this point?

Thanks!

Just speculating because I have no direct connection with the admissions office, but I feel that any updates or letters help because it shows continued interest in the school, even if Sinai says it won't matter. At least it certainly won't hurt. If I was choosing between candidate #1 on the ranklist who hasn't sent any letters or updates and candidate #2 on the list who's repeatedly updated and stated their intent on matriculating, I would choose #2.

 

[dw2158]

one more dorky question: is there a cappella at sinai? that might be a dealbreaker for me, scholarship or not

 

[aaj117]

one more dorky question: is there a cappella at sinai? that might be a dealbreaker for me, scholarship or not

there's no group yet (at least that i know of, but i go to all of the activity fairs and stuff), but when you get here it'd probably be easy to start one. This year dancin' at sinai was started, the vagina monologues were re-started, and somehow even in such a small community there are plenty of people interested to keep these things alive.

 

[jbz24]

I haven't heard of one either.

You can check out some of the performances from the recent coffee house.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SinaiCoffee

 

[loljkttyl]

I think they just started one...
http://www.youtube.com/user/SinaiCoffee#p/a/u/2/5nr-PuZisZ4

 

[smmypnts]

Im currently on the waitlist at Sinai.
I know people posted earlier about how they rank their waitlist... I was wondering if anyone knew if they change those 'rankings' if people have significant updates to tell Sinai.

A paper that my PI submitted a while ago just got accepted (i'm first author)...so I sent Dr. Parkas an update letter with that in it. Just wanted to get opinions- does anyone think that matters at this point?

Thanks!

I am also on the waitlist.

However, as time goes on and I submit applications for housing ect to SUNY Downstate, I am feeling more and more committed to that school. I still really like Sinai and I would go if I get in my mid-June (which is when a lot of things are due for the other school) and if it will cost me roughly the same amount of money (SUNY's tuition is 23K/year and I would be willing to go to Mount Sinai for 30K/year but no more, which would require a small amount of aid to cover the $ difference).

Do you think these are possible or should I withdraw from the waitlist?

 

[dw2158]

I am also on the waitlist.

However, as time goes on and I submit applications for housing ect to SUNY Downstate, I am feeling more and more committed to that school. I still really like Sinai and I would go if I get in my mid-June (which is when a lot of things are due for the other school) and if it will cost me roughly the same amount of money (SUNY's tuition is 23K/year and I would be willing to go to Mount Sinai for 30K/year but no more, which would require a small amount of aid to cover the $ difference).

Do you think these are possible or should I withdraw from the waitlist?

to clear things up about financial aid at sinai: they actually do this in a better way that pretty much any other school, IMO. they have a basic loan package of about $25,000 that everyone is expected to take out. if you have demonstrated need above that, they fill in with scholarship. so if you're like me and your family's EFC (not the FAFSA version, the complicated, more accurate NeedAccess version) is super small, you'll get what amounts to almost a full tuition scholarship, and the $20k+ in in loans is almost equivalent to your living expenses.

 

[jbz24]

I am also on the waitlist.

However, as time goes on and I submit applications for housing ect to SUNY Downstate, I am feeling more and more committed to that school. I still really like Sinai and I would go if I get in my mid-June (which is when a lot of things are due for the other school) and if it will cost me roughly the same amount of money (SUNY's tuition is 23K/year and I would be willing to go to Mount Sinai for 30K/year but no more, which would require a small amount of aid to cover the $ difference).

Do you think these are possible or should I withdraw from the waitlist?

I would assume most of the waitlist movement would be done by mid-June. It's hard to predict financial aid money so I don't know, but it's definitely possible. I understand your sentiment though about feeling committed to a school, especially after such a long and hard process of applying to med school. Do what you feel is best for yourself.

 

[premad]

to clear things up about financial aid at sinai: they actually do this in a better way that pretty much any other school, IMO. they have a basic loan package of about $25,000 that everyone is expected to take out. if you have demonstrated need above that, they fill in with scholarship. so if you're like me and your family's EFC (not the FAFSA version, the complicated, more accurate NeedAccess version) is super small, you'll get what amounts to almost a full tuition scholarship, and the $20k+ in in loans is almost equivalent to your living expenses.

Actually, that is not at all what happened for me at Sinai. Ditto on the 'base loan' portion, but my calculated 'need' met by scholarship at Sinai was small as compared to every other school where I've gotten back at package so far, even those that don't use NeedAccess (e.g. Stanford). Soooo, IDK. The mysteries of FinAid. Dale seems really cool, though.

 

[justinbaily]

I love Dale

 

[dw2158]

Actually, that is not at all what happened for me at Sinai. Ditto on the 'base loan' portion, but my calculated 'need' met by scholarship at Sinai was small as compared to every other school where I've gotten back at package so far, even those that don't use NeedAccess (e.g. Stanford). Soooo, IDK. The mysteries of FinAid. Dale seems really cool, though.

haha, i should have said that the complicated, NeedAccess version of your EFC is *theoretically* more accurate

and honestly, i'm sure sinai and other schools like this have some play with how much grant vs. loan aid they give to people to entice them to come and whatnot. but in theory their practice makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[dw2158]

I love Dale

me too! and i loved Dr. Parkas when we met her as well

 

[premad]

me too! and i loved Dr. Parkas when we met her as well

OMG, Dr. Parkas is my hero. Brown alums FTW. Gosh, I really love Sinai, it's just a good place.

 

[dw2158]

OMG, Dr. Parkas is my hero. Brown alums FTW. Gosh, I really love Sinai, it's just a good place.

you can't possibly be heading there, though... ? where are you thinking as of now?

 

[premad]

you can't possibly be heading there, though... ? where are you thinking as of now?

Sinai would be my NYC pick, hands down. But, I think I'd rather try a new city for med school. So, will probably withdraw this week from all those schools w/o compelling financial aid...beyond that, I still don't know. I would be happy almost anywhere, so that makes me indecisive.

You're for sure Sinai or still also after Dean Frantz? Many of us Columbia postbacs call P&S 'where fun goes to die.' Not really fair, because they have great extracurriculars, but the student body is...an interesting mix.

 

[dw2158]

Sinai would be my NYC pick, hands down. But, I think I'd rather try a new city for med school. So, will probably withdraw this week from all those schools w/o compelling financial aid...beyond that, I still don't know. I would be happy almost anywhere, so that makes me indecisive.

You're for sure Sinai or still also after Dean Frantz? Many of us Columbia postbacs call P&S 'where fun goes to die.' Not really fair, because they have great extracurriculars, but the student body is...an interesting mix.

hmmmm, interesting. i had this image of P&S as having a really great student community and being a pretty happy sort of place.

anyway, yeah, i'm still holding out a bit of hope for that waitlist (sending letters, etc.) but i'm planning on sinai. might still need to go to sinai if i get into P&S and it's unaffordable.

 

[premad]

hmmmm, interesting. i had this image of P&S as having a really great student community and being a pretty happy sort of place.

anyway, yeah, i'm still holding out a bit of hope for that waitlist (sending letters, etc.) but i'm planning on sinai. might still need to go to sinai if i get into P&S and it's unaffordable.

Oh, they are happy. *I* would not be happy with them. But, I will not elaborate more on this, Sinai's thread.