2+ step II failures

[DD214_DOC]

I asked this question during the typical post Step I anxiety period. I ended up passing first try, but nobody answered my original question. With Step II coming up, I have to ask again to assuage any anxiety.

I am taking Step II for the first time next week. For some reason, the military thinks I have already attempted it once and failed. My wife got a letter stating that if I do not pass this time (which is actually my first attempt, I'm just taking it late) I may lose eligibility for the scholarship.

So really, my question is how likely is it at this point to happen? My graduation won't be delayed and I will have already matched. What, exactly, would happen?

This was my original quesiton: "I read somewhere that if you have to take the board more than twice the Army gives you the boot -- is this usually enforced or do they tend to ignore it?"

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[BigNavyPedsGuy]

I know we had a resident that as a student had board troubles and had to do an extra year. She still ended up graduating and is still on active duty.

Unfortunately, she struggled a lot clinically and her step scores were likely revealing.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I know we had a resident that as a student had board troubles and had to do an extra year. She still ended up graduating and is still on active duty.

Unfortunately, she struggled a lot clinically and her step scores were likely revealing.

Ok, but I'm really asking how likely they are to enforce the rule of removing people from the scholarship for "multiple failures" this late in the game?

Also, should I be concerned that, for whatever reason, they assume I have taken it already and failed at least once? I really have no idea where they are getting this information. I guess when I told them I'm just taking it late for the first time they didn't believe me. My overall record is fine. I passed step I first try. I have multiple Honors and High Pass grades on rotations, including at military hospitals. Never had to repeat a rotation exam. M2 year my grades were in the 80s. My audition rotation went extremely well, I got Honors and was told they hope to see me back as an intern.

I'm just concerned because things are going really well for me, and I would hate to basically be booted out of the military and have no residency to go to in July.

 

[J-Rad]

I can't speak authoritatively to your primary question, but typically the services tend to exercise some latitude in their enforcement of such rules, esp. depending on circumstance. The other question you ask, in re the issue of them sending you a letter stating belief in a previous (non-existent) failure: correct this immediately. Work up, down, and sideways on the chain to find out who can correct this error in your records (if the error actually exists; I could see the letter being automatically generated for anyone who takes the later step 2 exam whether it was a primary or secondary attempt. In that case you may be told that there is no record of a failure). The main reason to correct this now is to save headaches down the line, esp if you one day want to apply for fellowship. A failed step will weigh down your application and why get bogged down in having to explain that you never really failed a step (though it should be relatively easy to prove via NBOME [DO, correct?]). Don't let errors on your records stand, and always keep copies of your records (truisms in the military).

 

[J-Rad]

I know we had a resident that as a student had board troubles and had to do an extra year. She still ended up graduating and is still on active duty.

Unfortunately, she struggled a lot clinically and her step scores were likely revealing.

I hope things went well during that extra year...if I ever get stationed at a Navy command again, I'm PMing you to find out who she is

 

[DD214_DOC]

I will ring them up monday and find out what is going on. I already told the head person once that I haven't even taken it yet. The letter was probably just one of those generic generated things.

I am probably more concerned than I need to be, but I have read too many horror stories of people completely failing COMLEX II, even with really good COMLEX I scores. The current situation is, apparently, also only allowing me a single attempt to pass the exam. Hopefully that is all I will need.

I was having a good time on rotations until I had to start studying for another exam.

 

[froggermd13]

I am an MD so I took USMLE not COMLEX, so I'm not sure if this correlates with your situation. For most MDs, Step I is clearly the most difficult and is the one that you could possibly not pass, even if you're smart. Steps II and III are much easier, much more clinical, less book factoids. I studied a ton for Step I and did just above average, but easily passed (although I didn't really feel that way when I left the testing center). My studying for Step II consisted of one set of 50 practice questions and I scored 9 points higher than Step I. I dedicated ZERO time to studying for Step III (not my original plan, but had some extenuating circumstances) and scored 9 points higher than Step II (18 points higher than Step I). From talking to other residents, this is not uncommon. Each test is generally "easier" than the previous one. If you passed Step I the first time, I would be surprised if you had any difficulty passing Step II.

I would be much more concerned with getting your record corrected so that you do not have a "failure" listed anywhere that is not accurate. If you let it go and something happens later, they will wonder why you were not more vigilant about getting this corrected. Obtain your official record from COMLEX and send it by certified mail to OTSG or have the COMLEX people send an official record report to them and make sure they acknowledge they have received it. This error might be due to a "generic letter process" but might also be because they have put someone else's attempt/failure/score on your record by mistake.

Unfortunately, sometimes the only way you are evaluated for a job or considered for a position is by the way you look on paper. So make sure the way you look on paper is correct.

Good luck!

 

[DD214_DOC]

THanks for the info and advice.

I have done just over 1800 practice questions for COMLEX and have read most of Crush Step 2. My memory for details isn't so good, and I have had trouble storing stuff into long-term memory. I am actually much, much better and understanding general concepts and then applying that information to situations to, "figure stuff out".

Anyway, COMLEX II has a reputation for being extremely vague and poorly-written, much like the first one. Sometimes I think this is almost intentional so that more people will fall into the "passing portion" when the exam is scaled. Unfortunately, it also screws over a lot of people.

 

[notdeadyet]

I studied a ton for Step I and did just above average, but easily passed (although I didn't really feel that way when I left the testing center). My studying for Step II consisted of one set of 50 practice questions and I scored 9 points higher than Step I. I dedicated ZERO time to studying for Step III (not my original plan, but had some extenuating circumstances) and scored 9 points higher than Step II (18 points higher than Step I). From talking to other residents, this is not uncommon. Each test is generally "easier" than the previous one. If you passed Step I the first time, I would be surprised if you had any difficulty passing Step II.

I've heard the refrain "2 months for Step I, 2 weeks for Step II, 2 days for Step III" often enough to believe it.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

I've heard the refrain "2 months for Step I, 2 weeks for Step II, 2 days for Step III" often enough to believe it.

I thought it was "two months for Step 1, two weeks for Step 2 and two #2 pencils for step 3", but I guess now that it is computer-based, it'll have to be just two index fingers.

 

[notdeadyet]

What's a #2 pencil and what was wrong with #1?

 

[a1qwerty55]

Ok, but I'm really asking how likely they are to enforce the rule of removing people from the scholarship for "multiple failures" this late in the game?

Ultimately you have to be a licensed physician - and are required to have an unrestricted license after your PGY I year - You would have to pass step I, II, III to pull that off. If you can't you aren't any good to the military as a physician and will likely serve your obligation in the medical service corps. This isn't something that will get waived.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

What's a #2 pencil and what was wrong with #1?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pencil

You should try #2 1/2

 

[NavyFP]

I thought it was "two months for Step 1, two weeks for Step 2 and two #2 pencils for step 3", but I guess now that it is computer-based, it'll have to be just two index fingers.

You beat me to it, but that is the rule of thumb I remember.

I asked this question during the typical post Step I anxiety period. I ended up passing first try, but nobody answered my original question. With Step II coming up, I have to ask again to assuage any anxiety.

I am taking Step II for the first time next week. For some reason, the military thinks I have already attempted it once and failed. My wife got a letter stating that if I do not pass this time (which is actually my first attempt, I'm just taking it late) I may lose eligibility for the scholarship.

So really, my question is how likely is it at this point to happen? My graduation won't be delayed and I will have already matched. What, exactly, would happen?

This was my original quesiton: "I read somewhere that if you have to take the board more than twice the Army gives you the boot -- is this usually enforced or do they tend to ignore it?"

You really need to relax a little. First time pass rate for board exams is over 90%. There are minor variances, but I don't think I have ever seen that number under 90%. So you have to ask yourself "Am I dumber than 90% of the people taking the test?" Odds are good that you are not. Don't blow off the test, but don't panic so much that you create a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[notdeadyet]

You really need to relax a little. First time pass rate for board exams is over 90%. There are minor variances, but I don't think I have ever seen that number under 90%.

Agreed. Pass rate for first time test takers for the Step II for allopathic and osteopathic med students for the past few years has been about 95% and 87%, respectively. With those kind of numbers, I'd say panic kills as many folks as preparation does.

 

[i want out]

. Don't let errors on your records stand, and always keep copies of your records (truisms in the military).

Truth has been spoken.

don't even go the the crapper in the military without keeping copies of the toilet paper.

That way you have a paper trail, that shows you have done what you were supposed to do.

E-mail strings are also good, and easier to keep.

Always keep every e-mail, even if you have to burn them to a CD or store them some other way.

Also don't trust spoken words about your record, ask them to e-mail you something, or send hard copy.

i want out (of IRR)

 

[wingbowlchamp3]

have you taken the pe yet? i have first hand experience with failing the humanistic portion of it even though i have a great record otherwise...and most people seem to think i'm a nice guy. luckily i took it in june so i had plenty of time to take it again. i'd be much more worried about this exam than the ce if i were you since even a comlex pe pro like me still has no idea what they're looking for. they don't tell you anything about what you did wrong if you fail.

 

[ieatpizza]

My guess is that you got a generic letter and they do not actually have anything on record that you failed Step 2. However, I think Step 2 scores (the CK part, not the CS/PE part) were due October 15th for the military match, and maybe that's why the letter sounded urgent.

 

[AFDuck]

I was curious about this too, did you get a waiver or something to take step 2 late?