2 pharmacy schools shut down, which ones next

[297point1]

This will be number three (or number 2.5, depending upon how you feel about satellite campuses):

ALBANY – The Albany College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences Administration will close operations on its satellite campus in Vermont in June 2021 due to declining enrollment, college officials said Tuesday.

The accelerated PharmD program will be discontinued after the current students have successfully completed the program, according to the announcement from ACPHS President Greg Dewey and the college's Board of Trustees.

Albany College of Pharmacy to close Vermont location

ALBANY – The Albany College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences (ACPHS) Administration will...

www.timesunion.com

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[clarkbar]

Good lord.

"Only 65% of 2019 graduates passed the NAPLEX professional licensing test on the first try — the third lowest any school in the country and well below the national average of 88%..."

This is a definite sign that the school is NOT producing quality graduates and current policies are invalid. Combine this with the high attrition rate, the board has very little reason to change its decision. If the accreditor reverses their decision, it sets a precedent for other schools to sue or "throw a tantrum" if they do not get accredited.

I'm all for minorities getting a solid education, even if it is pharmacy. However, a student that chooses to attend this school instead of all the other ones right now that are begging for applicants needs to rethink their priorities. Bringing race into this lawsuit just makes me cringe.

Is this a standard requirement of the pharmacy schools accreditation organizations, such as law schools? The ABA mandates that each school must have 75% of first time students pass the bar and not be in the bottom 25% of pass rates for their state. This has caused 8 schools to close in the last 4 years. Does pharmacy have any such standard?

 

[clarkbar]

They get to finish out their studies and as long as they pass the boards. It was the promise that ACPE makes when it give precandidate status, that you won't be left high and dry. They shouldn't make that promise which would help slow down these types of schools.

I wouldn't be so sure, the ABA likes to threaten accreditation and then reinstate it a couple years later to feign responsiblity and ward off potential government scrutiny.

 

[owlegrad]

Is this a standard requirement of the pharmacy schools accreditation organizations, such as law schools? The ABA mandates that each school must have 75% of first time students pass the bar and not be in the bottom 25% of pass rates for their state. This has caused 8 schools to close in the last 4 years. Does pharmacy have any such standard?

That is impossible. There will always be a “bottom 25% of pass rates for their state”. Do they close the bottom 25% of each state each year?

 

[VA77]

ACPE can only dream of this power

 

[clarkbar]

That is impossible. There will always be a “bottom 25% of pass rates for their state”. Do they close the bottom 25% of each state each year?

It really is a sham standard, for instance, bar pass rates are in the toilet, so as the average pass rate declines, so do the bottom schooles.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Is this a standard requirement of the pharmacy schools accreditation organizations, such as law schools? The ABA mandates that each school must have 75% of first time students pass the bar and not be in the bottom 25% of pass rates for their state. This has caused 8 schools to close in the last 4 years. Does pharmacy have any such standard?

pharmacy has no requirement that like that I am aware of. The issue with saying you can't be in the bottom 25% means every year be definition 25% will fail, which doesn't seem to make sense? (the 75% pass rate dose thou)

 

[quickpic007]

This will be number three (or number 2.5, depending upon how you feel about satellite campuses):

ALBANY – The Albany College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences Administration will close operations on its satellite campus in Vermont in June 2021 due to declining enrollment, college officials said Tuesday.

The accelerated PharmD program will be discontinued after the current students have successfully completed the program, according to the announcement from ACPHS President Greg Dewey and the college's Board of Trustees.

Albany College of Pharmacy to close Vermont location

ALBANY – The Albany College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences (ACPHS) Administration will...

www.timesunion.com

Whats your prediciton for the next one to fall. ??

Top candidates are
Chicago state
Husson
Larkin

 

[PromisedNeverland]

yeah the CPJE would have had that low pass rate before the scandal if they changed the questions each time and didn't do "batches" either ..

 

[jacksmith228833]

Amazon pharmacy just launched...good bye 10 more schools

 

[clarkbar]

pharmacy has no requirement that like that I am aware of. The issue with saying you can't be in the bottom 25% means every year be definition 25% will fail, which doesn't seem to make sense? (the 75% pass rate dose thou)

THEY ARE COMBINED STANDARDS. THEY HAVE TO BE AT THE BOTTOM AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE AN UNDER 75% PASS RATE

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

Is this a standard requirement of the pharmacy schools accreditation organizations, such as law schools? The ABA mandates that each school must have 75% of first time students pass the bar and not be in the bottom 25% of pass rates for their state. This has caused 8 schools to close in the last 4 years. Does pharmacy have any such standard?

THEY ARE COMBINED STANDARDS. THEY HAVE TO BE AT THE BOTTOM AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE AN UNDER 75% PASS RATE

No need to shout. Your original comment was that a school has to have a 75% pass rate and not be in the bottom 25% for their state to maintain accreditation. Meaning that failing to meet either criteria would result in losing accreditation.

 

[clarkbar]

sorry, I was at work. the EMR only responds to caps. lol

No need to shout. Your original comment was that a school has to have a 75% pass rate and not be in the bottom 25% for their state to maintain accreditation. Meaning that failing to meet either criteria would result in losing accreditation.

 

[Dred Pirate]

THEY ARE COMBINED STANDARDS. THEY HAVE TO BE AT THE BOTTOM AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE AN UNDER 75% PASS RATE

WHY ARE WE TALKING IN ALL CAPS!!!!!

 

[BidingMyTime]

HUH! CAN YOU GUYS SPEAK UP A BIT, I HAVE A LOT OF BACKGROUND NOISE AND CAN'T HEAR WHAT YOU ARE SAYING!

 

[projektreverb]

LOUD NOISES!

 

[iamapharmacist]

I noticed Hampton claimed racial discrimination against ACPE. ACPE Outcomes Disclosure Information - School of Pharmacy

Lol. What about Florida A&M? Howard?

What a clown show

Not sure accepting students based on their race is such a good idea. Especially in professional schools.

 

[SarahSowder]

I bet University of New England will shut down in a couple years. They are in Maine and have had serious admission problems. They use to have 100+ but now only 30 and that's taking anybody who applies too. Their pass rates have been in the bottom third and they just recently went from a college of pharmacy to a school of pharmacy. Rumor was the board of trustees wanted to shut it down last yr too. I've had some of their P4's on rotations and our hospital declined them now

 

[iamapharmacist]

I bet University of New England will shut down in a couple years. They are in Maine and have had serious admission problems. They use to have 100+ but now only 30 and that's taking anybody who applies too. Their pass rates have been in the bottom third and they just recently went from a college of pharmacy to a school of pharmacy. Rumor was the board of trustees wanted to shut it down last yr too. I've had some of their P4's on rotations and our hospital declined them now

Googled "university of new england acceptance rate". Google says it's 79.8% LOLOLOL oh lawd.

Not sure if it's more sad to be accepted or rejected...

 

[Gombrich12]

Googled "university of new england acceptance rate". Google says it's 79.8% LOLOLOL oh lawd.

Not sure if it's more sad to be accepted or rejected...

That's actually a better than average acceptance rate. The average acceptance rate for all pharmacy schools is like 85%. That means there are schools accepting 95%+ or maybe even 100%. There is no future for pharmacy if open admissions aren't stopped.

 

[iamapharmacist]

That's actually a better than average acceptance rate. The average acceptance rate for all pharmacy schools is like 85%. That means there are schools accepting 95%+ or maybe even 100%. There is no future for pharmacy if open admissions aren't stopped.

So average pharmacy school acceptance rate vs medical school acceptance rate is 83% vs 7% lol hot dayum I know med school people are far more superior than us pea brains but good god...

 

[footfairy]

That's actually a better than average acceptance rate. The average acceptance rate for all pharmacy schools is like 85%. That means there are schools accepting 95%+ or maybe even 100%. There is no future for pharmacy if open admissions aren't stopped.

Its insane that less than a decade ago a lot of schools were at single digit acceptance rates.

As much as some posters rag on my alma mater for having a 0+6 program at least the middle 50% of accepted students are in the top 5% of SAT scores nation wide vs the new trend of sub 3.0 GPA with no PCAT at most schools.

 

[dumb-struck]

Hampton already got the lawsuits rolling. Will Greg Boyer back down or stick to his guns?

Hampton University sues accreditor over fate of pharmacy program

After months of appeals, Hampton University has sued the American Council for Pharmacy Education over the university’s pharmacy doctorate program. The ACPE withdrew the Hampton University School of Pharmacy’s Pharm.D. accreditation earlier this year, citing low performance on licensing exams and...

news.yahoo.com

And they have the audacity to sue... lord

 

[dumb-struck]

So average pharmacy school acceptance rate vs medical school acceptance rate is 83% vs 7% lol hot dayum I know med school people are far more superior than us pea brains but good god...

All those candidate status schools take everyone that apply, apply to Larkin U
Went for interview at Larkin U, they didn't explain about their accreditation clearly. So I asked the interviewer and she only stated the obvious instead of being transparent with me that if they don't get accredited this year, they will get closed down. Not very honest people at this place!

 

[Sparda29]

I don't understand why SUNY Stony Brook decided to shut down operations for their pharmacy school before they started.

They would have provided a cheap PharmD option for NYC/Long Island/Westchester prospective pharmacy students and presented as a major competition against expensive St. Johns, LIU, and Touro.

 

[rphola123]

I did an APhA course on immunizations, and when it was time to do the actual injections, a MCPHS graduate at our table grabbed the vial, injected the needle in the vial and drew up the practice NS....5 of us at the table yelled in unison NO!...she did not sterilize the vial stopper.....

All I could think of is : Damm, this person has a PharmD!!!

Is it that big a deal if a pharmacists forgets to sterilize the vial stopper? 😂😂

 

[baronzb]

You're right, we're both entitled to an opinion, but you responded to mine so pointedly. Honestly, I really don't understand the reasoning of trying to put down someone who admits they've struggled. It just kinda makes you look...bad.

I thankfully don't have to worry about a lot of script/otc stuff (or diaphragm crap LOL) because I work in the emergency department and it sounds like you have a lot more experience than I do with that, which is fantastic. I've only practiced in the hospital from PY1-PharmD so these are things that I just haven't seen as consistently. Probably admittedly made my road a lot harder: exposure to situations helps with success especially with the law.

I'm not trying to internet battle on who is or isn't right on passing the MPJE, that ish is stupid. All I'm saying is that people DO struggle and it's not as straightforward or as easy as you're making it out to be. And honestly, that's perfectly okay that you are flying through it. I'm just not going to deny that it was a challenge to pass and that to me after multiple times trying different strategies, it was still difficult. I also don't see what's the harm in saying a score sheet would be AWESOME. I will say that I know many residents at top tier programs, pharmacists who moved from other areas, and students who literally went to school in GA and had preparatory programs that all had the same result: fail.

I'm fully licensed in multiple states so at the end of the day what does it matter? If you're easily passing everything that comes your way, you are too. Which is good, in my honest opinion we probably need more pharmacists like you.

I never understood why people touted the law exam as being more difficult than NAPLEX. One is an hour the other is 2 hours. The amount of material to know is about an order of magnitude for the latter. One could have no health experience, and they could pass the law exam. Granted, it's something one does have to study for.

 

[owlegrad]

I never understood why people touted the law exam as being more difficult than NAPLEX. One is an hour the other is 2 hours. The amount of material to know is about an order of magnitude for the latter. One could have no health experience, and they could pass the law exam. Granted, it's something one does have to study for.

Couldn’t agree more. Four years of learning about medications versus one class to prepare for the law exam. One covers practically the entire body of knowledge of mankind about medications and the other tests one small section of your state’s legislation. It’s not really a contest imo.

 

[projektreverb]

My problem with the law exam is the back assward phrasing of the questions. Not the body of knowledge it’s testing.

 

[BidingMyTime]

I never understood why people touted the law exam as being more difficult than NAPLEX. One is an hour the other is 2 hours. The amount of material to know is about an order of magnitude for the latter. One could have no health experience, and they could pass the law exam. Granted, it's something one does have to study for.

My problem with the law exam is the back assward phrasing of the questions. Not the body of knowledge it’s testing.

Totally this. Back when I took the IL law exam, it was made by the IL board, and the questions were very poorly worded. The trick was to figure out what they were actually asking, because it didn't matter that you knew the answer, when you couldn't figure out what the question was. In contrast, the NABPLEX (yes, I'm old enough I took the pre-NAPLEX which was NABPLEX) was standardized and used in 48 of the 50 states. Far more people would failed the law exam, then failed the NABPLEX, not because they didn't know the material, but because the test questions sucked.

 

[projektreverb]

Totally this. Back when I took the IL law exam, it was made by the IL board, and the questions were very poorly worded. The trick was to figure out what they were actually asking, because it didn't matter that you knew the answer, when you couldn't figure out what the question was. In contrast, the NABPLEX (yes, I'm old enough I took the pre-NAPLEX which was NABPLEX) was standardized and used in 48 of the 50 states. Far more people would failed the law exam, then failed the NABPLEX, not because they didn't know the material, but because the test questions sucked.

I took IL law too so I’m glad you totally understand my frame of reference. In contrast the other states I’ve done where a little better.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

Four years of learning about medications versus one class to prepare for the law exam.

I think this is why I felt more prepared for the NAPLEX. Beyond the MPJE phrasing issues, I felt like I had already spent 4 years studying for the NAPLEX through school.

Then if you were working you had to keep track of which laws your pharmacy chose not to follow. Plus I don't know, law just has so much gray area where you could realistically argue a couple different answers.

 

[VA77]

I have always felt the MPJE is pretty straightforward with real laws guiding you. The NAPLEX felt more gray because you just have guidelines and you have to pick the "best" answer.

 

[VA77]

Betting CSU gets accreditation pulled when ACPE meets in June since they already on probation. Could also see Larkin and NE put on probation.
Sorry, forgot Larkin only at candidate status so they can get yanked anytime.

 

[VA77]

Honestly, it really doesn't matter how many schools there are but how many they are admitting. I think the 2020 first time takers were 13k+ so it has dropped which means schools cannot find enough students but that number has got to get to around 5k to soak up all the excess that has and is still being put out.

 

[owlegrad]

I think this is why I felt more prepared for the NAPLEX. Beyond the MPJE phrasing issues, I felt like I had already spent 4 years studying for the NAPLEX through school.

Then if you were working you had to keep track of which laws your pharmacy chose not to follow. Plus I don't know, law just has so much gray area where you could realistically argue a couple different answers.

Your first paragraph is a good point.

Your second paragraph...I hear what you are saying, and I won’t say you are wrong, but I still feel like working is invaluable for law exam. So many questions can be answered from work. When do control scripts expire? What is a 222 (I know I am dating myself here)? How much PSE can you buy in a day? Etc etc etc. sure you get the oddball issue where your pharmacy isn’t exactly in line with an MPJE answer but on the whole I would say the pros far outweigh the cons.

 

[projektreverb]

Your first paragraph is a good point.

Your second paragraph...I hear what you are saying, and I won’t say you are wrong, but I still feel like working is invaluable for law exam. So many questions can be answered from work. When do control scripts expire? What is a 222 (I know I am dating myself here)? How much PSE can you buy in a day? Etc etc etc. sure you get the oddball issue where your pharmacy isn’t exactly in line with an MPJE answer but on the whole I would say the pros far outweigh the cons.

Actually, working can also screw you over for the law exam. How many company policies are based on the strictest state the company operates in, and not the particular legislature in that state? How many store policies are PIC policies rather than actual state laws?

 

[owlegrad]

Actually, working can also screw you over for the law exam. How many company policies are based on the strictest state the company operates in, and not the particular legislature in that state? How many store policies are PIC policies rather than actual state laws?

I guess everyone is different. Personally I would find it very difficult to contextualize laws if I never saw them in action. It is true though that working can blind you to the intricacies of the law.

For example when I had my law class I was surprised to learn that it isn’t illegal to complete a partial fill of a CII as long as it is within the allowed timeframe. I had always heard it was “illegal” to do it in retail so yeah you have a point too.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

I hear what you are saying, and I won’t say you are wrong, but I still feel like working is invaluable for law exam. So many questions can be answered from work.

Overall I would agree that working is a net positive for most. I did have a couple classmates who worked for shady independents and didn't realize that they were routinely and blatantly breaking laws until we actually sat down and studied for the MPJE though.

Also the above mentioned case where your company policy is more strict than state/federal law created some confusion.

 

[jacksmith228833]

Betting CSU gets accreditation pulled when ACPE meets in June since they already on probation. Could also see Larkin and NE put on probation.
Sorry, forgot Larkin only at candidate status so they can get yanked anytime.

The only ones being yanked here are Larkin students

 

[rph3664]

I just saw this on Reddit. TL : DR - they aren't getting enough applicants to fill their slots, and are offering "bonuses" to people who recruit new suckers - I mean students.

https://i.redd.it/4uj4vubn7hp61.jpg

Touro is the Caribbean medical schools of pharmacy programs.

 

[sfachine]

I just saw this on Reddit. TL : DR - they aren't getting enough applicants to fill their slots, and are offering "bonuses" to people who recruit new suckers - I mean students.

https://i.redd.it/4uj4vubn7hp61.jpg

Touro is the Caribbean medical schools of pharmacy programs.

I wonder if pharmacy is less attractive or the pool of applicants is shrinking due to demographic factors.

 

[iamapharmacist]

I wonder if pharmacy is less attractive or the pool of applicants is shrinking due to demographic factors.

Years of Rampant Expansion Have Imposed Darwinian Survival-of-the-Fittest Conditions on US Pharmacy Schools

The number of applicants to US pharmacy schools has been declining since 2013, leading to a national enrollment crisis. Enrollment challenges threaten the viability of many pharmacy programs. Some schools are better equipped than others to confront the risk of having to downsize or close...

www.ajpe.org

Consideration of Aggressive and Strategic Approaches to Address Declining Enrollment in US Pharmacy Schools

Members from Cohort 13 of the Academic Leadership Fellows Program (ALFP) 2016-2017 were challenged to present a debate on the topic: “In Turbulent Times, Pharmacy Education Leaders Must Take Aggressive Action to Prevent Further Declines in Enrollment” at the American Association of Colleges of...

www.ajpe.org

These two articles show how messed up our profession is.

One, they ALL know there is a problem yet nothing is done. Just like the boarder crisis. I swear I saw a bunch of people just literally walk across the boarder and just started walking down the highway... I digress.

Two, decrease in number of applicants but increase in number of schools??! That basically means the standards have been lowered so much that the mouth of this profession basically is attached to its anus...

For any new applicants reading this, these two facts should scare you enough to turn around and never come back. I swear I'm leaving in 5-10 years. I'm done with this profession.

 

[Sine Cura]

The level of "esteem" of this vocation by the general public is likely to fall below that of chiropractic

 

[iamapharmacist]

The level of "esteem" of this vocation by the general public is likely to fall below that of chiropractic

This is an insult to chiropractors. At least they are able to utilize their skills and knowledge in their practice and don't have to deal with corporate BS. Let alone their schools are not dominated by lobbyists. They also have positive job outlook in the next decade.

Chiropractors : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

Chiropractors evaluate and treat patients' neuromusculoskeletal system, which includes nerves, bones, muscles, ligaments, and tendons.

www.bls.gov

I would say our profession is probably the worst doctorate you can get in this country. My friends who are pharmacists in South Korea are laughing at me every time I talk to them about our problems... sigh.

 

[Sine Cura]

Two and a Half Men

 

[vesfly]

I’m hearing UNE has 20 students for the fall.

 

[BidingMyTime]

I’m hearing UNE has 20 students for the fall.

What is their normal class size? I tried to look on their website and couldn't find anything, but did find where 100% of their class of 2016 was employed within 6 months of graduation (doesn't specific that they were actually employed as pharmacists or in a job requiring a pharmacist degree.) We all know why that stat hasn't been updated since 2016.

 

[297point1]

What is their normal class size? I tried to look on their website and couldn't find anything, but did find where 100% of their class of 2016 was employed within 6 months of graduation (doesn't specific that they were actually employed as pharmacists or in a job requiring a pharmacist degree.) We all know why that stat hasn't been updated since 2016.

Indeed, we all know why they haven't updated that statistic since 2016.

A better question is why have they allowed a dated statistic to remain on their website? They should remove stuff that leads to obvious questions where the answer is a negative. That's poor marketing.

 

[Gombrich12]

What is their normal class size? I tried to look on their website and couldn't find anything, but did find where 100% of their class of 2016 was employed within 6 months of graduation (doesn't specific that they were actually employed as pharmacists or in a job requiring a pharmacist degree.) We all know why that stat hasn't been updated since 2016.

Hopefully we see both Husson and UNE dissappear in a few years.