,

[Giovanotto]

C/O 2021 right behind you with 800 more first year DO students


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[pseud0]

by definition this year is a good indicator of future success. there was literally over a 1,000 DO student increase over last year in the acgme match and the match rate didn't budge. good news. relax, please.

 

[NontradCA]

by definition this year is a good indicator of future success. there was literally over a 1,000 DO student increase over last year in the acgme match and the match rate didn't budge. good news. relax, please.

Kek.

So let me ask you a question sir. Simple math question. If the number of students increased but the match rate stayed the same, will the total number of unmatched students increase?

How bout another one. If the amount of unfilled spots from last year has decreased, will it be harder to find a position for the unmatched?

 

[SLC]

Kek.

So let me ask you a question sir. Simple math question. If the number of students increased but the match rate stayed the same, will the total number of unmatched students increase?

How bout another one. If the amount of unfilled spots from last year has decreased, will it be harder to find a position for the unmatched?

The total number of unmatched has increased (as it has for matched BTW).

What you need to focus on is your overall chance of success, and that comes from the match rate, which hasn’t changed, despite the increase in numbers of DO’s applying.

 

[W19]

Im not berating DO students, Im surprised at their surprise that they might have to lower their standards inlight of the residency crunch. Everyone should enter medical school with the expectation that they very well might have to do FM or IM. I dont understand how this is unreasonable or harsh.

Eventually, we all have to settle for reality.

FTFY

 

[W19]

By the way, what's wrong primary care?

@SLC has the potential to make 300k first year out of FM residency. Primary care is GREAT!

 

[libertyyne]

The total number of unmatched has increased (as it has for matched BTW).

What you need to focus on is your overall chance of success, and that comes from the match rate, which hasn’t changed, despite the increase in numbers of DO’s applying.

Do you think that an 80% chance of success is an acceptable number for DO schools? Especially in a world where AOA match goes away?

 

[SLC]

By the way, what's wrong primary care?

@SLC has the potential to make 300k first year out of FM residency. Primary care is GREAT!

I’ll tell you what’s wrong with primary care...it is a widely held opinion that primary care doctors are all folks who barely made it through med-school.

Those of us who do it know that’s patently false.

That and it’s the hardest job in medicine. It’s like herding cats some days trying to convince people to take care of themselves. And you get a lot of stupid stuff in the office (people with 2 days of URI that want a Z-pack is a big one).
You’re also the least respected doctor in the hospital. I’ve been told off by a Pedi-ER fellow for treating a buckle fracture appropriately because she felt that completing a peds residency and 6 months of ER fellowship meant that whatever she pulled out of her ass was better than what I’ve learned and done on the 3 orthopedics months I’ve been required to do so far. A quick lit search wasn’t enough to satisfy her because “maybe that’s the way Family Medicine doctors do it, but in peds we do it differently”. That stuff gets aggravating.

But I love what I do, because interspersed with all of that, I have some really great patients who I truly care for, and I know they value and respect me as their physician. I’ve recieved letters thanking me for helping with depression, diabetes, etc. I’ve taken on a poorly controlled psych patient that I admitted to the hospital in the middle of the night, he’d been fired from 3 or 4 other practices. He’s stable now and doing amazingly well. I had a prenatal patient who ended up having a pretty nasty shoulder dystocia, which I managed on my own, then resuscitated baby, and took care of Mom and baby in the hospital and again at clinic. I’ve helped guide patients into hospice and been there for their deaths (which was a privilege in its own right).

I’m the doctor who gets to do a little bit of everything. I’m the guy you come to first when you have a medical issue, and the vast majority of the time I can handle it; and when I can’t, I’ll send you to a person who’s known as an expert, even if it’s only with respect to a very narrow aspect of medicine.

I have the best job in the world

 

[Eagles6389]

Do you think that an 80% chance of success is an acceptable number for DO schools? Especially in a world where AOA match goes away?

I don’t see the 80% match rate as that big of a deal. For the 20% who didn’t match, this could be explained by a multitude of things: such as failing COMLEX, having low board scores, or applying to a specialty that the applicant isn’t competitive for. You shouldn’t really look at the 80% and go “omg only 4/5 DO applicants will match, maybe I’ll be the 1/5 that don’t”. Instead, realize that any DO with decent board scores, takes USMLE, and applies to a specialty that he/she is competitive for will likely have no problems matching.

 

[starri]

Do you think that an 80% chance of success is an acceptable number for DO schools? Especially in a world where AOA match goes away?

But that number should actually go up once the AOA programs are fully integrated. Unless you think that every single former AOA residency is going to completely shut out DOs.

I mean, I know the stats for IMGs were pretty stable from last year, but anecdotally, at least in certain specialties, it seemed to be pretty rough for them this year. I have to wonder if there's been a shift in where the IMGs are applying.

 

[libertyyne]

I don’t see the 80% match rate as that big of a deal. For the 20% who didn’t match, this could be explained by a multitude of things: such as failing COMLEX, having low board scores, or applying to a specialty that the applicant isn’t competitive for. You shouldn’t really look at the 80% and go “omg only 4/5 DO applicants will match, maybe I’ll be the 1/5 that don’t”. Instead, realize that any DO with decent board scores, takes USMLE, and applies to a specialty that he/she is competitive for will likely have no problems matching.

Oh , I agree. Its still scary knowing you go to a school that has a 1 in 5 chance of not matching. Are the schools the problem where they are not providing you with the education you need to succeed or are the admission standards the problem.

But that number should actually go up once the AOA programs are fully integrated. Unless you think that every single former AOA residency is going to completely shut out DOs.

I mean, I know the stats for IMGs were pretty stable from last year, but anecdotally, at least in certain specialties, it seemed to be pretty rough for them this year. I have to wonder if there's been a shift in where the IMGs are applying.

Some programs will not convert at all, others will convert but will not take the same number of DO's since they will be able to take other graduates. Even if they retain a DO preference they will still end up taking some percentage of other graduates.
'

 

[starri]

Some programs will not convert at all, others will convert but will not take the same number of DO's since they will be able to take other graduates. Even if they retain a DO preference they will still end up taking some percentage of other graduates.

But you're also assuming that the 20% that failed to match were perfect candidates that were shut out just for being DOs. That may be true, but you have no idea what other factors might be at play. What are their scores? Do they have any red flags? Did they apply strategically? There are too many confounding issues to say that they were just screwed for being DOs.

 

[libertyyne]

But you're also assuming that the 20% that failed to match were perfect candidates that were shut out just for being DOs. That may be true, but you have no idea what other factors might be at play. What are their scores? Do they have any red flags? Did they apply strategically? There are too many confounding issues to say that they were just screwed for being DOs.

As i stated above that still indicates a problem with the school, the training/ education the counseling or the student selection. Its also interesting that that assumes that the same students were matching AOA in the past even with red flags.
That coupled with the fact that COCA see's it fit to keep increasing class sizes and open more schools just seems like a bad idea. If COCA does respond appropriately by tightening standards to increase match rate after the sunset of AOA residencies. It seems as though ACGME may have forced COCA into thinking twice before opening new schools and expanding class sizes.

 

[DokterMom]

Do you think that an 80% chance of success is an acceptable number for DO schools? Especially in a world where AOA match goes away?

Well said @libertyyne -- I'd have to agree with @Goro in that a 'same as last year' match percentage in light of the much larger number of DO applicants to the ACGME match is an encouraging thing. But I'd also have to agree also that an overall match rate of ~80% (I know that's not what the numbers represent) is not actually acceptable for DO grads. The 20% in the ACGME match excludes those who matched AOA, so it was probably a combination of the weakest DO applicants, the misguided who over-estimated their chances, and the simply unlucky.

Do we have 'total totals' yet? The number of DO grads who matched (AOA+ACGME) divided by the total number of DO grads? That's what we need to look at.

 

[DokterMom]

I’ll tell you what’s wrong with primary care...it is a widely held opinion that primary care doctors are all folks who barely made it through med-school.

Those of us who do it know that’s patently false.

That and it’s the hardest job in medicine. It’s like herding cats some days trying to convince people to take care of themselves. And you get a lot of stupid stuff in the office (people with 2 days of URI that want a Z-pack is a big one).
You’re also the least respected doctor in the hospital. I’ve been told off by a Pedi-ER fellow for treating a buckle fracture appropriately because she felt that completing a peds residency and 6 months of ER fellowship meant that whatever she pulled out of her ass was better than what I’ve learned and done on the 3 orthopedics months I’ve been required to do so far. A quick lit search wasn’t enough to satisfy her because “maybe that’s the way Family Medicine doctors do it, but in peds we do it differently”. That stuff gets aggravating.

But I love what I do, because interspersed with all of that, I have some really great patients who I truly care for, and I know they value and respect me as their physician. I’ve recieved letters thanking me for helping with depression, diabetes, etc. I’ve taken on a poorly controlled psych patient that I admitted to the hospital in the middle of the night, he’d been fired from 3 or 4 other practices. He’s stable now and doing amazingly well. I had a prenatal patient who ended up having a pretty nasty shoulder dystocia, which I managed on my own, then resuscitated baby, and took care of Mom and baby in the hospital and again at clinic. I’ve helped guide patients into hospice and been there for their deaths (which was a privilege in its own right).

I’m the doctor who gets to do a little bit of everything. I’m the guy you come to first when you have a medical issue, and the vast majority of the time I can handle it; and when I can’t, I’ll send you to a person who’s known as an expert, even if it’s only with respect to a very narrow aspect of medicine.

I have the best job in the world

Well said @SLC A good primary care doctor makes an enormous difference in the life of his/her patients. They save countless lives, not with brief heroics, but with a steady background presence and a gentle guiding hand. They deserve far more respect than they sometimes receive --

 

[RealAlexJones]

I'll throw some numbers out that I've been looking at

2018
AOA offered 2473 positions (including TRI, Option 1-3 residencies)
Of those 1680 filled.
From NMS the total number of US osteo seniors were 6644,
total number of US osteo seniors plus previous grads = 7123
So ACGME+AOA+military matched = 1680+3771+274 = 5725/7123= 80.4% of all DOs matched,
compared to all allos seeking residencies (grads and seniors)
seniors: 18818 senior match rate 94.3%
prev grads: 1511
18402/20329 = 90.5% of all US MDs matched

I'll compare 2017 as well
6727 total DOs
2933 matched ACGME
256 matched military
2214 matched into some type of AOA

5403/6727 = 80.3% total DO percent matched
US MD total seeking 20011
Of those US seniors = 17480, senior match rate :94.3%
US prev grads seeking positions: 1472
US MD total match 18157
20011/18157 = 90.3% total percent matched

(I can't calculate the US DO senior match rate because both NRMP and NMS do not separate previous grads vs. seniors from the 2018 data while NRMP does for MDs.)

I'm sure my math has some holes in it as im just learning about the match so feel free to correct and if im just flat out incorrect ill just delete this lol and also NRMP does not show military data like the NMS does so US MD % might be higher

 

[libertyyne]

I'll throw some numbers out that I've been looking at

2018
AOA offered 2473 positions (including TRI, Option 1-3 residencies)
Of those 1680 filled.
From NMS the total number of US osteo seniors were 6644,
total number of US osteo seniors plus previous grads = 7123
So ACGME+AOA+military matched = 1680+3771+274 = 5725/7123= 80.4% of all DOs matched,
compared to all allos seeking residencies (grads and seniors)
18402/20329 = 90.5% of all US MDs matched

I'll compare 2017 as well
6727 total DOs
2933 matched ACGME
256 matched military
2214 matched into some type of AOA

5403/6727 = 80.3% total DO percent matched
US MD total seeking 20011
US MD total match 18157
20011/18157 = 90.3% total percent matched

I'm sure my math has some holes in it as im just learning about the match so feel free to correct and if im just flat out incorrect ill just delete this lol and also NRMP does not show military data like the NMS does so US MD % might be higher

you only include seniors in the %match.

 

[RealAlexJones]

you only include seniors in the %match.

• I don't want to turn this thread into a match statistics lesson but for NMS, the number matched does not include osteo prev grads? I lumped prev grads and seniors together for NRMP

 

[libertyyne]

• I don't want to turn this thread into a match statistics lesson but for NMS, the number matched does not include osteo prev grads? I lumped prev grads and seniors together for NRMP

I dont know what NMS does, NRMP specifically deliniates US seniors as a category and the match rates thrown around are for us seniors not everyone in the pool.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I think we need to be reasonable and acknowledge some realities. The Match this year was probably the hardest its ever been. Certainly residencies which previously were easy for US MDs to walk into became battle grounds. DO students overall got the blunt end of the stick this year and this was especially true for those who either had no counseling on how to apply or were COMLEX only. Yes, the percent matched stayed similar, though I'll argue that with more than half of AOA programs in the match now this is really an indicator that things got worse from last year.

The part that's gonna get worse is that from now on people are going to start applying to residency programs like IMGs with >50 apps to have a good chance which will actually just make it more difficult for everyone and residency programs to rank people who actually want to go to a program high.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I’ll tell you what’s wrong with primary care...it is a widely held opinion that primary care doctors are all folks who barely made it through med-school.

Those of us who do it know that’s patently false.

That and it’s the hardest job in medicine. It’s like herding cats some days trying to convince people to take care of themselves. And you get a lot of stupid stuff in the office (people with 2 days of URI that want a Z-pack is a big one).
You’re also the least respected doctor in the hospital. I’ve been told off by a Pedi-ER fellow for treating a buckle fracture appropriately because she felt that completing a peds residency and 6 months of ER fellowship meant that whatever she pulled out of her ass was better than what I’ve learned and done on the 3 orthopedics months I’ve been required to do so far. A quick lit search wasn’t enough to satisfy her because “maybe that’s the way Family Medicine doctors do it, but in peds we do it differently”. That stuff gets aggravating.

But I love what I do, because interspersed with all of that, I have some really great patients who I truly care for, and I know they value and respect me as their physician. I’ve recieved letters thanking me for helping with depression, diabetes, etc. I’ve taken on a poorly controlled psych patient that I admitted to the hospital in the middle of the night, he’d been fired from 3 or 4 other practices. He’s stable now and doing amazingly well. I had a prenatal patient who ended up having a pretty nasty shoulder dystocia, which I managed on my own, then resuscitated baby, and took care of Mom and baby in the hospital and again at clinic. I’ve helped guide patients into hospice and been there for their deaths (which was a privilege in its own right).

I’m the doctor who gets to do a little bit of everything. I’m the guy you come to first when you have a medical issue, and the vast majority of the time I can handle it; and when I can’t, I’ll send you to a person who’s known as an expert, even if it’s only with respect to a very narrow aspect of medicine.

I have the best job in the world

I'd sincerely consider FM if it weren't for the extra time spent on OB/Gyn XD.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I think we need to be reasonable and acknowledge some realities. The Match this year was probably the hardest its ever been. Certainly residencies which previously were easy for US MDs to walk into became battle grounds. DO students overall got the blunt end of the stick this year and this was especially true for those who either had no counseling on how to apply or were COMLEX only. Yes, the percent matched stayed similar, though I'll argue that with more than half of AOA programs in the match now this is really an indicator that things got worse from last year.

The part that's gonna get worse is that from now on people are going to start applying to residency programs like IMGs with >50 apps to have a good chance which will actually just make it more difficult for everyone and residency programs to rank people who actually want to go to a program high.

100% correct and takes into account the fact that some of these programs were actually AOA. People may think this is fine, but we need to acknowledge that residencies are not expanding at the same rate as students. My class will have 2,000 more students that will enter the match, on top of the fact the MD school will pump out a similar amount of grads. How will the numbers look when we are in a full NRMP match...

 

[SLC]

I'd sincerely consider FM if it weren't for the extra time spent on OB/Gyn XD.

Meh; I don’t enjoy it much myself but I deal with it. I wrapped up all my OB shifts last month so I’m officially done with it if I want.

I negotiated out of any OB in my next job; it wasn’t hard to find a job with no OB.

 

[keepItReal17]

I’ll tell you what’s wrong with primary care...it is a widely held opinion that primary care doctors are all folks who barely made it through med-school.

Those of us who do it know that’s patently false.

That and it’s the hardest job in medicine. It’s like herding cats some days trying to convince people to take care of themselves. And you get a lot of stupid stuff in the office (people with 2 days of URI that want a Z-pack is a big one).
You’re also the least respected doctor in the hospital. I’ve been told off by a Pedi-ER fellow for treating a buckle fracture appropriately because she felt that completing a peds residency and 6 months of ER fellowship meant that whatever she pulled out of her ass was better than what I’ve learned and done on the 3 orthopedics months I’ve been required to do so far. A quick lit search wasn’t enough to satisfy her because “maybe that’s the way Family Medicine doctors do it, but in peds we do it differently”. That stuff gets aggravating.

But I love what I do, because interspersed with all of that, I have some really great patients who I truly care for, and I know they value and respect me as their physician. I’ve recieved letters thanking me for helping with depression, diabetes, etc. I’ve taken on a poorly controlled psych patient that I admitted to the hospital in the middle of the night, he’d been fired from 3 or 4 other practices. He’s stable now and doing amazingly well. I had a prenatal patient who ended up having a pretty nasty shoulder dystocia, which I managed on my own, then resuscitated baby, and took care of Mom and baby in the hospital and again at clinic. I’ve helped guide patients into hospice and been there for their deaths (which was a privilege in its own right).

I’m the doctor who gets to do a little bit of everything. I’m the guy you come to first when you have a medical issue, and the vast majority of the time I can handle it; and when I can’t, I’ll send you to a person who’s known as an expert, even if it’s only with respect to a very narrow aspect of medicine.

I have the best job in the world

As a an OMS-0 --A nobody starting med school this fall-- I have to say.. you make primary care sound awesome. lol a lot of people are out here gunning for competitive specialties, and while thats fine if its what you love, it shouldn't be the end of the world if you don't end up matching into said specialtes. After all, Id like to think we are all in it to help people, whether thats primary care or orthopedic surgery. Congratulations on loving your job the way you do, we need more people like you.

 

[Blunt Dissection]

As a an OMS-0 --A nobody starting med school this fall-- I have to say.. you make primary care sound awesome. lol a lot of people are out here gunning for competitive specialties, and while thats fine if its what you love, it shouldn't be the end of the world if you don't end up matching into said specialtes. After all, Id like to think we are all in it to help people, whether thats primary care or orthopedic surgery. Congratulations on loving your job the way you do, we need more people like you.

While it is a nice idea to think that all your classmates are in medicine to help people, I think you'll see after a year or two of didactics that the extent to which "helping people" is a significant motivational factor among your classmates is not as significant as you would hope. Whether or not primary care or surgery is the end goal, it is very easy for people to forget during the first 2 years of school that when this over, you will be responsible for the well-being of another person. I have seen lives ruined by bad primary care docs just as often as I have seen lives ruined by bad surgeons. Personally, I wish more of my classmates were gunning and working hard on a daily basis because it at least shows the desire to want to be better. The worst attitude I've ever encountered in medical school come from individuals that believe "I don't care where I do residency, I just want to pass and match." I would say that out of my class, I would probably trust at most 20% of them to be my own personal doctor.

 

[libertyyne]

While it is a nice idea to think that all your classmates are in medicine to help people, I think you'll see after a year or two of didactics that the extent to which "helping people" is a significant motivational factor among your classmates is not as significant as you would hope. Whether or not primary care or surgery is the end goal, it is very easy for people to forget during the first 2 years of school that when this over, you will be responsible for the well-being of another person. I have seen lives ruined by bad primary care docs just as often as I have seen lives ruined by bad surgeons. Personally, I wish more of my classmates were gunning and working hard on a daily basis because it at least shows the desire to want to be better. The worst attitude I've ever encountered in medical school come from individuals that believe "I don't care where I do residency, I just want to pass and match." I would say that out of my class, I would probably trust at most 20% of them to be my own personal doctor.

Even worse is the attitude that people working hard to better themselves are somehow "Gunners" and have a negative bias associated with that. Everyone should be working as hard as possible.

 

[Scrubs101]

As a person who is usually slightly on the side of optimism when viewing the merger, i will say one thing, from what we currently know this doesnt look good. Especially as future classes will have more and more competition due to rapid school expansion.

 

[Chibucks15]

Even worse is the attitude that people working hard to better themselves are somehow "Gunners" and have a negative bias associated with that. Everyone should be working as hard as possible.

Its not the working hard...its the smugness, condescension and in some cases flat out sabotage that some of these people have. Not everyone who is busting their butt is a gunner, but all gunners are people busting their butt. If that makes sense. If you aren't working hard to better yourself in medical school you aren't gonna make it far

 

[SLC]

Even worse is the attitude that people working hard to better themselves are somehow "Gunners" and have a negative bias associated with that. Everyone should be working as hard as possible.

And then there’s the assumption that people who aren’t concerned with matching to a competitive field, must automatically not be working hard, or working to better themselves.

Just do you, ignore what anyone else says about it.

 

[SLC]

While it is a nice idea to think that all your classmates are in medicine to help people, I think you'll see after a year or two of didactics that the extent to which "helping people" is a significant motivational factor among your classmates is not as significant as you would hope. Whether or not primary care or surgery is the end goal, it is very easy for people to forget during the first 2 years of school that when this over, you will be responsible for the well-being of another person. I have seen lives ruined by bad primary care docs just as often as I have seen lives ruined by bad surgeons. Personally, I wish more of my classmates were gunning and working hard on a daily basis because it at least shows the desire to want to be better. The worst attitude I've ever encountered in medical school come from individuals that believe "I don't care where I do residency, I just want to pass and match." I would say that out of my class, I would probably trust at most 20% of them to be my own personal doctor.

Do you really have the audacity to believe you know how hard your classmates are working? Or think that in med-school you can judge which of them are going to be good Physicians? I’ve seen residents with all the smarts in the world who can’t put it together to manage a clinical problem; and others who just seem to get it.

 

[keepItReal17]

While it is a nice idea to think that all your classmates are in medicine to help people, I think you'll see after a year or two of didactics that the extent to which "helping people" is a significant motivational factor among your classmates is not as significant as you would hope. Whether or not primary care or surgery is the end goal, it is very easy for people to forget during the first 2 years of school that when this over, you will be responsible for the well-being of another person. I have seen lives ruined by bad primary care docs just as often as I have seen lives ruined by bad surgeons. Personally, I wish more of my classmates were gunning and working hard on a daily basis because it at least shows the desire to want to be better. The worst attitude I've ever encountered in medical school come from individuals that believe "I don't care where I do residency, I just want to pass and match." I would say that out of my class, I would probably trust at most 20% of them to be my own personal doctor.

Absolutely. Don't get me wrong, you should always try your best. IMO there is no place for mediocrity in medicine as the patients you are treating will be someones loved one somewhere. Im just saying, a lot of people I have met have the mentality of "surgery or bust" and while its great to work hard for your dreams, people often forget that not everyone will achieve that; especially with being a DO and the unknown future the merger will bring. I believe primary care shouldn't be looked down on the way it often is. For me personally, I know why i chose to pursue medicine, and whether I'm a surgeon or a primary care physician, I will not take my studies or my future job lightly. Its a privilege to serve in any field of medicine.

 

[Scrubs101]

Anyone know exactly how many previously AOA programs participated in the ACGME match this year? Or just a rough estimate?

 

[libertyyne]

Anyone know exactly how many previously AOA programs participated in the ACGME match this year? Or just a rough estimate?

2017 709 programs 3109 positions
2018 582 | 2473

 

[IsWhat]

While it is a nice idea to think that all your classmates are in medicine to help people, I think you'll see after a year or two of didactics that the extent to which "helping people" is a significant motivational factor among your classmates is not as significant as you would hope. Whether or not primary care or surgery is the end goal, it is very easy for people to forget during the first 2 years of school that when this over, you will be responsible for the well-being of another person. I have seen lives ruined by bad primary care docs just as often as I have seen lives ruined by bad surgeons. Personally, I wish more of my classmates were gunning and working hard on a daily basis because it at least shows the desire to want to be better. The worst attitude I've ever encountered in medical school come from individuals that believe "I don't care where I do residency, I just want to pass and match." I would say that out of my class, I would probably trust at most 20% of them to be my own personal doctor.

The vast majority of your classmates are going to end up as fine physicians. The whole, “I wouldn’t trust my classmates” thing is just stupid - especially when you are judging people as medical students. I have a classmate who has really struggled didacticly, but I saw this person the other day in clinic interacting with a patient and it was made clear to me that when the knowledge base clicks for her - she is going to be a hell of a doc. Everyone comes into their own at different times in training. All that matters is competence at the end of residency.

 

[QueenJames]

Oh gtfohhhh..

Jesus christ.

Bunch of fear mongerers on SDN.

What we probably had are some idiotic DO students who want to delve from the PC track and shot their shot without knowing wtf they were getting themselves into.

They wanna do rads... anesthesia... derm... with only COMLEX scores... class failures... and who knows what else.

A lot of people on here LIE.

Guess what?

You will most likely do IM, FM, or Peds if you are a DO.

Boo-hoo.

Y'all knew what was up when you took the DO acceptance.

Deal with it or drop out.

 

[Scrubs101]

2017 709 programs 3109 positions
2018 582 | 2473

yes thats the total number participating in the AOA match right? I was asking the opposite. Unsure how many of those that dropped AOA match closed or moved completely to ACGME. Would have assumed if lets say all 600+ of those positions moved and none were shut down (obviously some amount shut down just hypothetical here), that the match rate should have gone up from last year assuming previously AOA still favoring DOs slightly. But if we assume more shut down than transfered to acgme, i could understand a stagnant match % on the acgme side

 

[Blunt Dissection]

Do you really have the audacity to believe you know how hard your classmates are working. Or think that in med-school you can judge which of them are going to me good Physicians. I’ve seen residents with all the smarts in the world who can’t put it together to manage a clinical problem; and others who just seem to get it.

It has nothing to do with the smarts and intellect - I assume that if you've made it to medical school, you clearly have the ability. I'm talking about the individuals that "hate" that they have to study for boards rather than being able to go on Spring break or are being "forced" to work long hours. I definitely do not believe it is audacious to say that there are classmates that refuse to work hard - especially when that is the attitude that they portray. Let me ask you, as a resident/attending, if you had a medical student on your service that arrived late and left early who didn't know the difference between a cephalosporin and a macrolide as a 3rd year rotating student, would you not tell them to get their **** together? It is a matter of attitude and yes, I do believe that in our profession, we can and will be judged based on how we act during didactics, rotations, residency, and afterwards. It is not audacity - it is holding our profession as health care providers to a higher standard.

 

[libertyyne]

yes thats the total number participating in the AOA match right? I was asking the opposite. Unsure how many of those that dropped AOA match closed or moved completely to ACGME. Would have assumed if lets say all 600+ of those positions moved and none were shut down (obviously some amount shut down just hypothetical here), that the match rate should have gone up from last year assuming previously AOA still favoring DOs slightly. But if we assume more shut down than transfered to acgme, i could understand a stagnant match % on the acgme side

there was an increase of 1400~ positions in acgme. Some of those are former AOA's. I agree it would be interesting to look at that.

 

[Giovanotto]

It has nothing to do with the smarts and intellect - I assume that if you've made it to medical school, you clearly have the ability. I'm talking about the individuals that "hate" that they have to study for boards rather than being able to go on Spring break or are being "forced" to work long hours. I definitely do not believe it is audacious to say that there are classmates that refuse to work hard - especially when that is the attitude that they portray. Let me ask you, as a resident/attending, if you had a medical student on your service that arrived late and left early who didn't know the difference between a cephalosporin and a macrolide as a 3rd year rotating student, would you not tell them to get their **** together? It is a matter of attitude and yes, I do believe that in our profession, we can and will be judged based on how we act during didactics, rotations, residency, and afterwards. It is not audacity - it is holding our profession as health care providers to a higher standard.

mememememememememe; hate me, don't care.

 

[Giovanotto]

I don’t see the 80% match rate as that big of a deal. For the 20% who didn’t match, this could be explained by a multitude of things: such as failing COMLEX, having low board scores, or applying to a specialty that the applicant isn’t competitive for. You shouldn’t really look at the 80% and go “omg only 4/5 DO applicants will match, maybe I’ll be the 1/5 that don’t”. Instead, realize that any DO with decent board scores, takes USMLE, and applies to a specialty that he/she is competitive for will likely have no problems matching.

And then people wonder why medical students are depressed and suicidal. So, on top of the stress we already have, you're okay with people having to carry the burden of knowing there is a 20% chance it was all for naught? Okay buddy, have fun out there.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Anyone know exactly how many previously AOA programs participated in the ACGME match this year? Or just a rough estimate?

there was an increase of 1400~ positions in acgme. Some of those are former AOA's. I agree it would be interesting to look at that.

If you go to the AOA Opportunities page there is a document that shows all of the former AOA programs that withdrew their AOA accreditation after receiving initial accreditation from the ACGME. Obviously some of the initially accredited ones kept their AOA accreditation and participated in the AOA match while also having a few seats in the NRMP match but it’s a good place to start for some rough numbers. I’ll see if I can link it

Edit: http://osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/E...ments/Transitioned-Programs-Opportunities.pdf

If I am reading this right I am assuming that these programs only participated in the ACGME match.

 

[IslandStyle808]

It has nothing to do with the smarts and intellect - I assume that if you've made it to medical school, you clearly have the ability. I'm talking about the individuals that "hate" that they have to study for boards rather than being able to go on Spring break or are being "forced" to work long hours. I definitely do not believe it is audacious to say that there are classmates that refuse to work hard - especially when that is the attitude that they portray. Let me ask you, as a resident/attending, if you had a medical student on your service that arrived late and left early who didn't know the difference between a cephalosporin and a macrolide as a 3rd year rotating student, would you not tell them to get their **** together? It is a matter of attitude and yes, I do believe that in our profession, we can and will be judged based on how we act during didactics, rotations, residency, and afterwards. It is not audacity - it is holding our profession as health care providers to a higher standard.

Our school doesn't even have a full week off for spring break. And we a few exams greeting us just afterward, thanks to our faculty who seem to care about our well being (LOL). There is a lot of s**tier things to be doing during spring break than studying for boards.

 

[Giovanotto]

Our school doesn't even have a full week off for spring break. And we a few exams greeting us just afterward, thanks to our faculty who seem to care about our well being (LOL). There is a lot of s**tier things to be doing during spring break than studying for boards.

WOW. I am so sorry, we get a full week without assignments/tests waiting for us when we get back. I'll be using most of it to relax/clean the house/do chores/see friends/some board studying.

 

[Wjldenver]

As a person who is usually slightly on the side of optimism when viewing the merger, i will say one thing, from what we currently know this doesnt look good. Especially as future classes will have more and more competition due to rapid school expansion.

I totally agree with your assessment. Based upon everything I've seen, rapid DO school expansion, coupled with the merger, will make things increasingly tough in regard to the Match. Will someone please give the people described on the following link an IQ test, because I don't think anyone of them would hit it out of the park.

Members of the Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation (COCA)

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

I totally agree with your assessment. Based upon everything I've seen, rapid DO school expansion, coupled with the merger, will make things increasingly tough in regard to the Match. Will someone please give the people described on the following link an IQ test, because I don't think anyone of them would hit it out of the park.

Members of the Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation (COCA)

Yeah, they are too busy palpating each others' piriformises and making up fake diagnoses on each other.

...Jk they just raking in the dough while they can


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Blunt Dissection]

Our school doesn't even have a full week off for spring break. And we a few exams greeting us just afterward, thanks to our faculty who seem to care about our well being (LOL). There is a lot of s**tier things to be doing during spring break than studying for boards.

Ouch! I remember that at the beginning of January, our calendar didn't have a Spring break listed, but it was instead called "Special studies" which was supposedly the week that students that did poorly on our COMSAE would have to stay to study. They ended up changing that to a dedicated Spring break either because students were in an uproar or because the average COMSAE came out to like a 350.

 

[ortnakas]

If you go to the AOA Opportunities page there is a document that shows all of the former AOA programs that withdrew their AOA accreditation after receiving initial accreditation from the ACGME. Obviously some of the initially accredited ones kept their AOA accreditation and participated in the AOA match while also having a few seats in the NRMP match but it’s a good place to start for some rough numbers. I’ll see if I can link it

Edit: http://osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/E...ments/Transitioned-Programs-Opportunities.pdf

If I am reading this right I am assuming that these programs only participated in the ACGME match.

Just skimmed this list and I think you're right. Several of these programs converted to ACGME after the season started on ERAS. Others (including the program I'm headed to) got ACGME accredidation but still did both matches.

 

[Eagles6389]

And then people wonder why medical students are depressed and suicidal. So, on top of the stress we already have, you're okay with people having to carry the burden of knowing there is a 20% chance it was all for naught? Okay buddy, have fun out there.

Really? Medical school isn’t something you can half ass and become a competent doctor. It’s entirely up to how hard each student works. Our school gave us plenty of study time, yet still some people fail COMLEX. I guess you ignored my previous post about how that 20% likely applied for specialties they didn’t have a shot at, didn’t take USMLE, or scored low on COMLEX.

 

[Giovanotto]

Really? Medical school isn’t something you can half ass and become a competent doctor. It’s entirely up to how hard each student works. Our school gave us plenty of study time, yet still some people fail COMLEX. I guess you ignored my previous post about how that 20% likely applied for specialties they didn’t have a shot at, didn’t take USMLE, or scored low on COMLEX.

Ah, the good old "picking yourself up by the bootstraps". I bet you're 100% in control of your own destiny, must be nice.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-...grad-placements-in-2017-matches.pdf?sfvrsn=10

So the AOA match went from 76% (with 600 more slots) to 66% with less slots this year. While the ACGME match despite gaining slots stayed at the same 81%. I don't think we will have a 99% placement this year. Interesting how it had dropped already from 2016 to 2017 but the percent was so small no one cared (0.26). I suspect a much larger drop this year. TY for the link.