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Interview season is taking place at our clown shop. Flyers and banners showing "Physician AND Surgeons!" students in surgical scrub cap walking around campus for no reason...
On a scale of 1 to even, I can't.
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PTPuser said:
Interview season is taking place at our clown shop. Flyers and banners showing "Physician AND Surgeons!" students in surgical scrub cap walking around campus for no reason...
On a scale of 1 to even, I can't.
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....my classmates and i may have walked around undergrad campus with our scrub caps still on while we did outreach/workshops for undergrads.....those were the days.

Edit: Granted we did this on our own time and money and paid for our own gas etc. I do not have the same enthusiasm anymore given current job market.
 
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Weirdy said:
....my classmates and i may have walked around undergrad campus with our scrub caps still on while we did outreach/workshops for undergrads.....those were the days.

Edit: Granted we did this on our own time and money and paid for our own gas etc. I do not have the same enthusiasm anymore given current job market.
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1665509328028.png
 
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Weirdy said:
....my classmates and i may have walked around undergrad campus with our scrub caps still on while we did outreach/workshops for undergrads.....those were the days.

Edit: Granted we did this on our own time and money and paid for our own gas etc. I do not have the same enthusiasm anymore given current job market.
Click to expand...

Pics...or it didn't happen!
 
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And the hot new thing is these turds who can't tell a valgus or varus are introducing themselves as Student Surgeons:XXXXX during tours....

I laughed out loud and this is why they all hate me.
 
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PTPuser said:
And the hot new thing is these turds who can't tell a valgus or varus are introducing themselves as Student Surgeons:XXXXX during tours....

I laughed out loud and this is why they all hate me.
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Future fellowship-trained student foot and ankle surgeon.
 
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PTPuser said:
And the hot new thing is these turds who can't tell a valgus or varus are introducing themselves as Student Surgeons:XXXXX during tours....

I laughed out loud and this is why they all hate me.
Click to expand...

Visited a program as a student where the pgy-3 couldn’t tell the attending where to mark an incision for the TN. But I guess this program continues to get re-certified every few years. That was just one horror story out of many at this program.
 
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I find half the reason many programs are weak is because they themselves got terrible education or suck at teaching. Finding a good pod surgically and one that knows how to teach is rare. Not to mention one that isn't a total dick. Good candidates will figure it out but if your residents don't know something... It starts with the resident but always ends with the attending/director. It's pretty easy to identify once you know what to look for. As a student I had no idea.
 
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There’s a lot to be said about resident motivation as well. I’ve seen residents show up on surgery days not even knowing what cases were scheduled or preparing at all when this information is readily available. Also seen residents skip cases to go to hair appointments or vacations. You can only do so much for some people.
 
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CutsWithFury said:
It's called patient education. You explain to them they will be back again with a new ulcer due to abnormal biomechanical forces through an asymmetrical foot stump leading to a new bone infection and another amputation. Most patients get on board.

Like I said these things happen because podiatrists just get lazy or they just don't get it
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They mostly get on board. Mostly.

For some reason, it's always these poorly controlled diabetics with 12 other comorbidities, eating a bag of Popeye's the night before round 3 of a partial ray amputation on the same foot that can't seem to grasp why they need a TMA.
 
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Inflation is 8.8% YoY. Why are podiatry associate salaries still barely $100k?
 
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My PA friend does the 7 on, 7 off schedule. Night shifts in the ED. Makes bank. Also does some per Diem shifts at other hospitals and this is in a large desirable metro city. Travels during the 7 days off. Pretty good ROI for 2 years of grad school. So yes, unfortunately, RN/PA/NP can start right off the bat already making more than a new grad and live wherever they want. They probably don’t even need to fight for the rural jobs either.
 
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wakaflocka88 said:
My PA friend does the 7 on, 7 off schedule. Night shifts in the ED. Makes bank. Also does some per Diem shifts at other hospitals and this is in a large desirable metro city. Travels during the 7 days off. Pretty good ROI for 2 years of grad school. So yes, unfortunately, RN/PA/NP can start right off the bat already making more than a new grad and live wherever they want. They probably don’t even need to fight for the rural jobs either.
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Thats awesome for your friend, how much does he/she make? Just want to get a rough idea. I know general dentists making 350k a couple years after graduating.
 
Can we just agree that 90% of podiatrists aren’t getting a quality ROI on their investment? How many more people need to come onto the forum and give their own personal story before we start taking this seriously?

Here’s a fun fact. I work for a big hospital that pays me pretty good with excellent benefits and podiatry is treated very well here. Great bonus structure, 5% match on 401k, etc etc etc

My hourly rate is $132.22

Guess what a traveling nurse makes? $150 per hour easy. But I’m “doctor”? Am I doctor? Or wait maybe I’m allied health?

I honestly can’t tell you because depending on where I am in this country my scope of practice changes like the weather.

There is no other medical specialty within the USA with that much variability in scope and how they are defined. Great work APMA.

But currently the profession’s main focus is fighting over board certification process.

Both boards are not recognized by ABMS which means the rest of the MD/DO world could care less about.
 
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I look at it this way. Aside from podiatry, if one looks at their portfolio and notice an investment isn’t giving them the ROI they like, why would they continue with it? This profession is no different unless you’re truly passionate about the work and don’t care about the ROI (highly doubt this).

Too many examples have already been provided to counter APMA’s claims and other docs’ claims for the reason enrollment is decreasing.

My PA friend is making around $250k with the combination of the full time job and some per Diem shifts all while taking 1 week of vacation every other week, in addition to full benefits. My travel nurse friends making $20-$40k a month in any city they want to live in. Hell, even nurses in the Bay Area are making $120+ working for Kaiser for 3-4 shifts per week. Guess what - they don’t have to take call (silly), can live where they want, can start saving for retirement early on all while having full benefits for themself and family.

I get it. Some want to get into this profession so they can be called a “doctor” and try to live the doctor life style as soon as they finish residency only to find out, wait, why is the job market so bad? Where are all these high paying jobs at? Why did the labor bureau tell me the average salary was $215k? Why did APMA lie to us? Was SDN telling the truth this whole time???

As long as all these pre pod/pod lifestyle instagram accounts exist, more will continue to be lured in to medicines best kept secret.
 
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Choose podiatry and you can immediately be a "student surgeon" and 7-8 years later you can be a real surgeon.......only to find out you get paid like a nurse, CORRECTION....less than a nurse

Most will get to live like residents even a few more years with no house, no new car while the PAs have a house, new SUV, are having kids, taking vacations to Hawaii, paying off loans and building 401Ks.
 
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This seemed applicable to this thread. It’s a good reason why VA work is not highly sought after in many MD/DO specialties. And it also makes sense why with the new legislation and pay increase that VA jobs can be very attractive for many DPMs. These numbers seem accurate within reason. Of course there are docs that make more or less but in general I think it’s very fair to say the numbers shown here are easily achievable for the average doc in that specialty. What would you say is a compatible “easily achievable” pay figure for podiatry?

E74C50DA-E4D4-458A-A62D-8B6853244C94.jpeg
 
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VA is attractive for podiatry, density and optometry when benefits and lifestyle and loan repayments are also considered. Family practice in a good location when lifestyle and loan repayment is considered is not bad.

Other specialties will come out behind. Some will choose VA when lifestyle is a consideration over money, especially in competitive markets. Many great doctors in many specialties choose the VA at the end of their career to teach, slow down and take private insurance with them into retirement.

Easily achievable for podiatry $100,000 with crap or no benefits.
 
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dtrack22 said:
This seemed applicable to this thread. It’s a good reason why VA work is not highly sought after in many MD/DO specialties. And it also makes sense why with the new legislation and pay increase that VA jobs can be very attractive for many DPMs. These numbers seem accurate within reason. Of course there are docs that make more or less but in general I think it’s very fair to say the numbers shown here are easily achievable for the average doc in that specialty. What would you say is a compatible “easily achievable” pay figure for podiatry?

View attachment 360781
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Since Foot and Ankle Surgeon (aka podiatrist) is a subspecialty of orthopedics, everyone would expect salary to be on yhe 3rd spot of that list, bumping Gen ortho to 4th spot. Or am I dreaming? 😆 I bet Bunion King tops the list for sure.
 
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I have to lower my number.

Since benefits should account for about 30 percent of salary and most associate jobs are light on benefits

$100,000 with crap benefits means more like $80,000 in the real world is easily to obtain for podiatry.

It is also why the huge risk of opening an office is not really that large of a risk.....more of a necessary risk.
 
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icebreaker32 said:
I have to lower my number.

Since benefits should account for about 30 percent of salary and most associate jobs are light on benefits

$100,000 with crap benefits means more like $80,000 in the real world is easily to obtain for podiatry.

It is also why the huge risk of opening an office is not really that large of a risk.....more of a necessary risk.
Click to expand...

In my highly important opinion, I think there's about a 20% chance that you may get a private practice gig that actually needs another associate and will be busy enough starting out. In this case you will clear about $150k while working 50+ hours per week. Conversely, this same workload would net you more than double that in a hospital employed position.
 
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These are the job offers I have encountered for someone who has 1-2 years of experience after residency/fellowship:

Private practice/MSG - $150K base for 1 year, then conversion to 40% collections. 401k, health care, at least. Road to partnership. You should expect this from a practice that wants you to contribute and succeed.

Hospital system - $225 base for 2 years then conversion based on RVUs.
Some hospitals have shareholder track. Some have pension plan.

VA - ~200K+ (depends on location) with incremental increase annually. Benefits. Pension plan.

Yes there are jobs available that have a low base (80-100K), but more concerning are jobs with no road to partnership. You can use this is a temporary placeholder, but gain experience and work your way up to a position that offers long term benefits.

There are many jobs that compensate well and have room for ownership out there if desired. You need to have the right combination of talent, smarts, and ability to network to encounter these opportunities.

That’s why it’s so important to go to a residency training program that has good mentorship and connections, in addition to the pathology and cases. The right position for you to make an impact is out there, whether you want to devote time to being a clinician, academic, researcher, teacher, entrepreneur, consultant. I’m 3 years out from residency and I am more passionate about this profession than ever.

If you’re looking into this profession, you need to talk to the right people.
 
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MalleableMan said:
These are the job offers I have encountered for someone who has 1-2 years of experience after residency/fellowship:

Private practice/MSG - $150K base for 1 year, then conversion to 40% collections. 401k, health care, at least. Road to partnership. You should expect this from a practice that wants you to contribute and succeed.

Hospital system - $225 base for 2 years then conversion based on RVUs.
Some hospitals have shareholder track. Some have pension plan.

VA - ~200K+ (depends on location) with incremental increase annually. Benefits. Pension plan.

Yes there are jobs available that have a low base (80-100K), but more concerning are jobs with no road to partnership. You can use this is a temporary placeholder, but gain experience and work your way up to a position that offers long term benefits.

There are many jobs that compensate well and have room for ownership out there if desired. You need to have the right combination of talent, smarts, and ability to network to encounter these opportunities.

That’s why it’s so important to go to a residency training program that has good mentorship and connections, in addition to the pathology and cases. The right position for you to make an impact is out there, whether you want to devote time to being a clinician, academic, researcher, teacher, entrepreneur, consultant. I’m 3 years out from residency and I am more passionate about this profession than ever.

If you’re looking into this profession, you need to talk to the right people.
Click to expand...

So let me get this straight… You have 3 job offers throughout the country and you’re saying there are many pod jobs out there right now that compensate well?

$150k base from an MSG is both garbage and insulting.

225 base from a hospital means nothing. What’s the RVU conversion factor? Because this tells you whether you’ll be making closer to 300 or closer to 400. Because that’s the range that hospital employed pods make.

Good riddance.
 
MalleableMan said:
These are the job offers I have encountered for someone who has 1-2 years of experience after residency/fellowship:

Private practice/MSG - $150K base for 1 year, then conversion to 40% collections. 401k, health care, at least. Road to partnership. You should expect this from a practice that wants you to contribute and succeed.

Hospital system - $225 base for 2 years then conversion based on RVUs.
Some hospitals have shareholder track. Some have pension plan.

VA - ~200K+ (depends on location) with incremental increase annually. Benefits. Pension plan.

Yes there are jobs available that have a low base (80-100K), but more concerning are jobs with no road to partnership. You can use this is a temporary placeholder, but gain experience and work your way up to a position that offers long term benefits.

There are many jobs that compensate well and have room for ownership out there if desired. You need to have the right combination of talent, smarts, and ability to network to encounter these opportunities.

That’s why it’s so important to go to a residency training program that has good mentorship and connections, in addition to the pathology and cases. The right position for you to make an impact is out there, whether you want to devote time to being a clinician, academic, researcher, teacher, entrepreneur, consultant. I’m 3 years out from residency and I am more passionate about this profession than ever.

If you’re looking into this profession, you need to talk to the right people.
Click to expand...

These job offers are terrible FYI
 
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Pronation said:
So let me get this straight… You have 3 job offers throughout the country and you’re saying there are many pod jobs out there right now that compensate well?

$150k base from an MSG is both garbage and insulting.

225 base from a hospital means nothing. What’s the RVU conversion factor? Because this tells you whether you’ll be making closer to 300 or closer to 400. Because that’s the range that hospital employed pods make.

Good riddance.
Click to expand...

I'm just putting information out there related to my limited experience with initial contracts from a particular concentrated geographic area.

The credit conversion factor for this particular hospital is about $51/RVU.

I'm sharing the baseline offered compensation here. How others would negotiate based on their needs is up to them. As you know, when it comes to an MSG, there's other factors pertaining to profit sharing that could be involved as well. We also need to take into account how quickly a new associate will get busy in particular setting, what mix of payers they see, and what the threshold is to convert to the production (40% of collections in my example) for compensation planning.

I'm not putting my personal compensation information here, but I wanted to pass on honest information from initial contracts I've seen. There shouldn't be an expectation that everyone has to take a sub $100K job like has been said in this thread.
 
Not everyone has to take 100K or below.

Although the income ceiling is fairly high for podiatry, the floor is also low. The bad jobs obviously persist for a reason.....people take them and feel they don't have better options available.

As someone who is fellowship trained with a couple year's experience the job market for you is not the same as a typical podiatrist from a typical residency.

It is nice for you to share your experiences, that is what makes this forum valuable.
 
MalleableMan said:
'm not putting my personal compensation information here, but I wanted to pass on honest information from initial contracts I've seen. There shouldn't be an expectation that everyone has to take a sub $100K job like has been said in this thread.
Click to expand...

Again, you gave a few examples for the ENTIRE country. Reading comprehension is critical here. The lucky few that score those jobs will do ok, the rest are going to be forced into garbage private practice gigs.
 
Meanwhile over at Practicelink, which is one of the larger job boards for physicians, there are 22 Podiatry jobs nationwide. Some of these positions are homecare jobs, a few are mistaken listings, few private/MS groups, and the rest tend to be smaller hospital networks. Probably one of the better sites for finding random hospital jobs. However, if you change the search to orthopedic surgery (foot and ankle) there are 58 listings. Most of these listings are specifically worded as seeking an orthopedic surgeon with a fellowship/experience in foot and ankle surgery, a fair amount even state, "must have completed an orthopedic surgery residency". Last I knew there were around 50ish foot and ankle fellowship programs in the country. So almost one open job position, per program on one website. How many podiatric residents graduate each year, 500?
 
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shadesofgrey said:
Meanwhile over at Practicelink, which is one of the larger job boards for physicians, there are 22 Podiatry jobs nationwide. Some of these positions are homecare jobs, a few are mistaken listings, few private/MS groups, and the rest tend to be smaller hospital networks. Probably one of the better sites for finding random hospital jobs. However, if you change the search to orthopedic surgery (foot and ankle) there are 58 listings. Most of these listings are specifically worded as seeking an orthopedic surgeon with a fellowship/experience in foot and ankle surgery, a fair amount even state, "must have completed an orthopedic surgery residency". Last I knew there were around 50ish foot and ankle fellowship programs in the country. So almost one open job position, per program on one website. How many podiatric residents graduate each year, 500?
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Practicelink is how I got my first two jobs. I think its a fantastic resource.
 
MalleableMan said:
I'm not putting my personal compensation information here, but I wanted to pass on honest information from initial contracts I've seen. There shouldn't be an expectation that everyone has to take a sub $100K job like has been said in this thread.
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Not everyone but majority are still going to start out with $100k jobs. Even $120K job in this age of rising inflation is still poor. Can you agree that about 70% (or more) of graduates will take a $100k job starting out?

It's interesting how every year we graduate about 500-600 podiatrists. Most get their jobs by cold calling private practices. Most private practices don't even have to post a job opening. They know every year they will get unwanted solicitations from upcoming graduates looking for jobs. This is obvious because we never see 500 job openings in podiatry but somehow most people get an associate job upon graduation. The job post on PM news or similar website looking for an associate are the deep bottom in the barrel job offers.

This is why the associate jobs paying $100k base will never go away even 10 or 20 years from now. Who else will hire the army of podiatrists that we graduate from residency every year?
 
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1666200902999.png

Someone brought this type of job up previously but I had never actually seen a listing. 7 listings on practice link atm

Only sees United Medicare Advantage patients.

Wellmed = Optum = United Healthcare = Satan

No idea what it pays. I suppose there are worse jobs out there.
 
619 said:
This is why the associate jobs paying $100k base will never go away even 10 or 20 years from now. Who else will hire the army of podiatrists that we graduate from residency every year?
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The solution to this problem and many others in our profession is not to cut enrollment, it is to open more schools and argue about boards.
 
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heybrother said:
View attachment 360807
Someone brought this type of job up previously but I had never actually seen a listing. 7 listings on practice link atm

Only sees United Medicare Advantage patients.

Wellmed = Optum = United Healthcare = Satan

No idea what it pays. I suppose there are worse jobs out there.
Click to expand...
So don't live my cushy job in wintery hell for El Paso...
 
heybrother said:
View attachment 360807
Someone brought this type of job up previously but I had never actually seen a listing. 7 listings on practice link atm

Only sees United Medicare Advantage patients.

Wellmed = Optum = United Healthcare = Satan

No idea what it pays. I suppose there are worse jobs out there.
Click to expand...
Thinly veiled pedicurist job.
 
heybrother said:
View attachment 360807
Someone brought this type of job up previously but I had never actually seen a listing. 7 listings on practice link atm

Only sees United Medicare Advantage patients.

Wellmed = Optum = United Healthcare = Satan

No idea what it pays. I suppose there are worse jobs out there.
Click to expand...
Kinda my setup. Very active retirement community... routine care + plenty of wounds (all types) + ortho. Honestly I love it. Awesome pay and benefits.
 
heybrother said:
Are you saying that you mostly treat an older Medicare type practice that you enjoy or are you saying you work for a clinic owned by United?
Click to expand...

I’m going to go out on a limb and say it’s the former and not the latter. There is a 0% chance that a United (who is trying to save money by hiring the doctor who provides treatment to their MA patients) job would be described as “awesome pay and benefits.” Though, compared to other podiatry jobs, maybe working for United is a real step up. Like those coveted Podiatry VA jobs. You know, the ones that grossly underpay MD/DOs and are generally unattractive/hard to fill.
 
dtrack22 said:
I’m going to go out on a limb and say it’s the former and not the latter. There is a 0% chance that a United (who is trying to save money by hiring the doctor who provides treatment to their MA patients) job would be described as “awesome pay and benefits.” Though, compared to other podiatry jobs, maybe working for United is a real step up. Like those coveted Podiatry VA jobs. You know, the ones that grossly underpay MD/DOs and are generally unattractive/hard to fill.
Click to expand...

But but but but….there’s a pension bro
 
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Utvolsdpm said:
After Biden forgives your 400k student loans plus interest 😆
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I think he will, after I write him a letter letting him know that as a foot & ankle surgeon I save lives in the OR.
 
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Pronation said:
I think he will, after I write him a letter letting him know that as a foot & ankle surgeon I save lives in the OR.
Click to expand...
Just tell him that you have 2 words: Made in America (and point to yourself)
 
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