You’ve been made, all 10 of you

[HaimFeldman]

O

Paying like 47 per RVU.....

Once you've been swindled as an associate pod, anything looks good.

Including bailing on your student loans and moving to some exotic country that doesn't extradite to the US.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DYK343]

That's true... if the community of DPMs have the decency to communicate with each other, get organized, and tell the hospitals to shove it. There's too many desperate young, underpaid, pods that will jump at the "opportunity" to build up their name in the community and get cases. Hell, there's still a ton of experienced pods that jump at the opportunity to get whatever i latient consults they can. After they learn their lesson, if they ever do, there's a new fresh batch coming out of residency. It's a never-ending cycle.

I/We did it where Im at. We just flat out stopped taking calls.

Suddenly General Surg was getting DFU calls and they complained to hospital admin because they didnt want to do diabetic foot/too busy. Within 30 days we got a contract.

 

[HaimFeldman]

I/We did it where Im at. We just flat out stopped taking calls.

Suddenly General Surg was getting DFU calls and they complained to hospital admin because they didnt want to do diabetic foot/too busy. Within 30 days we got a contract.

You're fortunate!

 

[DYK343]

You're fortunate!

I agree.

Its not profitable in any way shape or form so I dont understand why DPMs do it. So much under/uninsured work. Its not worth time. Physician reimbursement for an I&D is pretty low. Gotta consult, wait for case to start, do case/paperwork, round on patient after for $200-300. Just not worth the time/energy.

 

[deleted664048]

I agree.

Its not profitable in any way shape or form so I dont understand why DPMs do it. So much under/uninsured work. Its not worth time. Physician reimbursement for an I&D is pretty low. Gotta consult, wait for case to start, do case/paperwork, round on patient after for $200-300. Just not worth the time/energy.

I agree with you, but my boss says it's a great way to attract new patients to the practice, get wound care patients to the practice, and have your name out there.
It comes down to how many patients and how often.
For me, hospital is 45min -1 hour away, so going there after work just adds another 2 hour to the very least to my work day, and then paperwork/rounding.. And no other specialty does it for free.

 

[HaimFeldman]

I agree.

Its not profitable in any way shape or form so I dont understand why DPMs do it. So much under/uninsured work. Its not worth time. Physician reimbursement for an I&D is pretty low. Gotta consult, wait for case to start, do case/paperwork, round on patient after for $200-300. Just not worth the time/energy.

I certainly don't get it either. When I talked to the group at the wound center about it, they said they'd been trying to get paid to take call for a while, but the private practice group I was working for at the time was just continually feeding new associates to take call there so they couldn't get the leverage they needed.

I agree with you, but my boss says it's a great way to attract new patients to the practice, get wound care patients to the practice, and have your name out there.
It comes down to how many patients and how often.
For me, hospital is 45min -1 hour away, so going there after work just adds another 2 hour to the very least to my work day, and then paperwork/rounding.. And no other specialty does it for free.

I was in the same boat. You're getting screwed. See above.

 

[DYK343]

I agree with you, but my boss says it's a great way to attract new patients to the practice, get wound care patients to the practice, and have your name out there.
It comes down to how many patients and how often.
For me, hospital is 45min -1 hour away, so going there after work just adds another 2 hour to the very least to my work day, and then paperwork/rounding.. And no other specialty does it for free.

Thats too far! I wouldnt take call even if they paid me. 2hrs in the car anytime they call? No thanks.

 

[deleted664048]

Thats too far! I wouldnt take call even if they paid me. 2hrs in the car anytime they call? No thanks.

Yes, I told my boss I cannot drive that much, its just not sustainable.

 

[619]

I agree with you, but my boss says it's a great way to attract new patients to the practice, get wound care patients to the practice, and have your name out there.
It comes down to how many patients and how often.
For me, hospital is 45min -1 hour away, so going there after work just adds another 2 hour to the very least to my work day, and then paperwork/rounding.. And no other specialty does it for free.

It's definitely a pod thing to take call for free which is unfortunate. My office is a minute drive to the hospital (Level II trauma center), busy hospital with a lot of diabetic pus and surgery cases however I still don't take call. The big pod group in my area makes their associates take call. No way they will agree with me to stop taking call so we can leverage and get paid for it.

I go the hospital every day to grab lunch and drinks from the lounge. I do take occasional floor consults from my favorite hospitalists. They have no problem if I am busy and see patient the next day or on Monday if it's a weekend. If it's urgent, they can call the pod on-call.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

I would be careful with the woundcare rotations being mandatory.

The wound care at the hospitals we cover are horrendous. We usually end up with their referrals for the ensuing infections, amputations or when they run out of ideas. Half of them are run by NPs with a wound care cert. We get their patients for the ensuing amputations or when they have spent 1 year trying to heal a small wound that should have taken 2-3 months with proper offloading.

Yes, they ended up not being mandatory in this version of 320. I agree that since wound care has no formal training pathway, quality is variable.

But I think adding DPMs to the mix (even in training) will actually improve the wound care.

 

[newfeet]

Yes, they ended up not being mandatory in this version of 320. I agree that since wound care has no formal training pathway, quality is variable.

But I think adding DPMs to the mix (even in training) will actually improve the wound care.

I wish I had more wound care during residency.

 

[Weirdy]

I wish I had more wound care during residency.

We have tons of experience here in clinic and our attendings make sure we really know it before letting us loose.
Think it just varies program to program.

Just unsure how much woundcare we actually see outside of residency and how viable it is as a producer. With the right setup (competent staff, streamlined intake etc) I'm sure it can be profitable but no idea how to even start something like this outside of applying to a woundcare center.

 

[AttackNME]

We have tons of experience here in clinic and our attendings make sure we really know it before letting us loose.
Think it just varies program to program.

Just unsure how much woundcare we actually see outside of residency and how viable it is as a producer. With the right setup (competent staff, streamlined intake etc) I'm sure it can be profitable but no idea how to even start something like this outside of applying to a woundcare center.

If your training involves expensive product that won’t reimburse well then yea, WCC. Or you can do weekly debridement and dress with betadine gauze and keep it simple.

 

[Sweatshirt]

Taking free call is so embarrassing. Such a podiatry thing. If you are taking free call you should be embarrassed with yourself. Keep telling yourself that the billion dollar hospital system can't pay you a measly $300 a day to take call because you "don't want to ruffle feathers" or that "it's a great way to attract new patients". The uninsured diabetic foot patient will definitely follow up with you in office and tell all his friends and family about the local doc who saw him for free!

 

[deleted664048]

Taking free call is so embarrassing. Such a podiatry thing. If you are taking free call you should be embarrassed with yourself. Keep telling yourself that the billion dollar hospital system can't pay you a measly $300 a day to take call because you "don't want to ruffle feathers" or that "it's a great way to attract new patients". The uninsured diabetic foot patient will definitely follow up with you in office and tell all his friends and family about the local doc who saw him for free!

When I interviewed for PP jobs, and would ask about consults and if its ok to refuse if patient has no insurance everyone would say "you will be new and you need to hustle, you should never refuse a consult regardless of the time/insurance, etc" Also one person told me that he would get all medicaid or non insurance consults when more established docs would be called for the insured people.

I swear at least 10 places told me that.

I head also "when i started I had to see medicaid patients and do surgery that paid $5 for TMA"
I feel like employers would be so confused if I would ask about " no insurance consults"
It seems like a common practice to do free work after hours for podiatry.

 

[Sweatshirt]

When I interviewed for PP jobs, and would ask about consults and if its ok to refuse if patient has no insurance everyone would say "you will be new and you need to hustle, you should never refuse a consult regardless of the time/insurance, etc" Also one person told me that he would get all medicaid or non insurance consults when more established docs would be called for the insured people.

I swear at least 10 places told me that.

I head also "when i started I had to see medicaid patients and do surgery that paid $5 for TMA"
I feel like employers would be so confused if I would ask about " no insurance consults"
It seems like a common practice to do free work after hours for podiatry.

Still extremely embarrassing nonetheless. All these practices should be embarrassed. This is a culture that needs to be changed

When I interviewed for a private practice recently they told me that they just recently dropped hospital call because the hospital refused to pay them. It wasn't worth their time because the consult and procedures alone did not pay much at all. I was very proud of them for sticking to their guns and this immediately made them jump up high on my list of potential employers. This practice was ran by multiple younger docs so maybe older pods are the issue

$5 TMA
1 hour consult by the time you drive, see consult, write note
1 hour to set up an OR
1 hour for procedure
30 minutes to do post op note, call family, place orders, drive home

Congrats on your $1.42 per hour! That's totally worth your time

 

[podwho]

Getting your name out there and “doing **** for free” are two very different things but it comes down to availability. If you never say no to anything then hospital likes you. You meet doctors and become part of the community (in small towns). Most specialties are like this believe it or not but for them it’s the difference between more money and quality of life. I had attendings take free call to support the program or keep other pods away. Not to mention residents did all the work so in reality it wasn’t a big deal. But if they physically had to come in they wouldn’t do it for free.

You know who doesn’t say no? Someone too broke or greedy to say no to 5$ Once a month for an occasion amp.

 

[newfeet]

Getting your name out there and “doing **** for free” are two very different things but it comes down to availability. If you never say no to anything then hospital likes you. You meet doctors and become part of the community (in small towns). Most specialties are like this believe it or not but for them it’s the difference between more money and quality of life. I had attendings take free call to support the program or keep other pods away. Not to mention residents did all the work so in reality it wasn’t a big deal. But if they physically had to come in they wouldn’t do it for free.

You know who doesn’t say no? Someone too broke or greedy to say no to 5$ Once a month for an occasion amp.

I was the only pod at a rural hospital for 3 years. I said yes to pretty much every diabetic foot ulcer/infection in the ER when I was on campus. There was not call structure for podiatry so I didn’t take call. But I got called a lot during the day.

 

[air bud]

I was the only pod at a rural hospital for 3 years. I said yes to pretty much every diabetic foot ulcer/infection in the ER when I was on campus. There was not call structure for podiatry so I didn’t take call. But I got called a lot during the day.

Yeah but I bet you got reimbursed regardless of insurance.

 

[wakaflocka88]

Great discussions. We transitioned from providing solid, anecdotal salary offers to show how bad the market is despite governing boards saying otherwise. And now the hotly debated subject of taking call. I know of 3-4 pods down in SoCal that are battling out taking call for free at multiple hospitals all throughout town. That thirst for the next great ankle fracture will always be a vice. How else you gonna flex your lead gown with the fellowship badge on it? Another pod in town I heard is being offered a cut from orthos daily call stipend so he can sit around and take all the DFU call. I’m sure we all know of a handful of pods who pride themselves on taking call and grinding out middle of the night cases. It builds character

 

[newfeet]

Yeah but I bet you got reimbursed regardless of insurance.

I got RVU… 👀

 

[HardRoadPaved]

Congrats on your $1.42 per hour! That's totally worth your time

You forgot the incessant post op calls in house from nursing (Forbid you put a VAC and get an alarm!), social worker, arrangements from outpt SNF and wound care, missed post op visits til they eventually either show up on a Friday with more pus foot or in the ER on the weekend you have plans.

I love the aspect of this field that I don't take care of wounds! Good riddance!

 

[air bud]

Remember, the secret is fabric tape - blood doesn't soak through. So make that foot look like a club and wrap in fabric tape. no blood no calls.

 

[air bud]

I agree with you, but my boss says it's a great way to attract new patients to the practice, get wound care patients to the practice, and have your name out there.
It comes down to how many patients and how often.
For me, hospital is 45min -1 hour away, so going there after work just adds another 2 hour to the very least to my work day, and then paperwork/rounding.. And no other specialty does it for free.

I hope you are already planning your exit. You should be.

 

[Feli]

It seems like you’re pretty much screwed in this field unless you want to go rural.

I would not say that. Rural helps in some regards... but not completely necessary.

Hospital jobs are much easier to find/create rural - or at least suburban.
You will also generally be able to do more full scope and have less competition. And LCOL of most rural helps a ton with saving and debt elimination.

Hospital jobs are possible in metros also... but there are many downsides.
Ortho / limited scope will be more of an issue. You will have an easy time doing I&Ds and amps and WCare that nobody else wants... much tougher time doing any appreciable elective, esp RRA. You will have a dozen other DPMs waiting to take your cush hosptial or MSG job at any given time, so your bargain power is obviously limited. I helped with hiring at my old metro MSG, and you would not believe how many apps we'd get. It was crazy. Many of these metro FTE gigs are the famed "university hospital" jobs... typically fair in compensation and "big name" hospitals - but can be anywhere from good to poor in terms of call, quality, etc. Some hospital jobs are legit full or failry full scope; some are just wound wizard positions (and personally, I'd take almost anything over that... I'd be bored out of my mind on that stuff).

PP is the same way.
Rural is easier to do full scope, find referrals, get paid well (vs COL). Metro is possible but more variable and more likely you will have trouble getting RRA refers and getting ownership or higher compensation (since there are so many associates for the PP to hire or replace you with).

You can get a job anywhere, though. If I for some reason had to find a job by the end of the year in Boston or east Washington or Jacksonville or almost anywhere, I could. The question is if it'd be decent quality or pay.

...overall, what airbud said here is a LEGIT concern. The DPM floor is a lot lower than MD for income, and it's significantly harder to replace a good gig or tap into a certain area with a good job from the start. Podiatry can be rough to find income + quality job even if you are very flexible on locations.
It's also true what he said heeere... some of the podiatrist jobs have unacceptably low income relative to the student loan burden. It was that way when I graduated... and it's DEFINITELY that way it is now with tuition + living up up up. So, I guess that's why some DPMs have to "go rural": to get a decent income or job quality. Again, hardly ever the case for MD jobs... even the VA jobs or bottom of the barrel PP or hospital ones are more likely to be at least adequate. It should tell us something that MDs look at VA jobs/income as poor... and DPMs typically view the same pay scale as being good.

I don't think one is ever "screwed" in podiatry. You will do fine. That's fairly easy for me to say (good training, passed all boards, partner makes good coin), but it is just highly important as a DPM to obtain one of the limited number of good residency programs and one still needs to work hard cold calling, searching hard, making their own luck in the job search afterwards. It is good to browse jobs even if you have a good one already. It is absolutely not like ER, OB, CRNA, etc where as long as you do almost any program and pass boards, you will make 300-500k depending how much you want to work and can pick almost any area of the country to do it in. None of this will get easier adding pod school graduates without adding residencies or by coddling along the lower quality program grads to "board certified," so that's the main frustration on SDN and everywhere: cheapening the demand and quality and potentially the income of the entire profession - when it's not ultra-strong to begin with. So, yeah... get good training and make your own luck... possibly find less competitive spaces.

 

[GreenHousePub]

I hope you are already planning your exit. You should be.

From his job or this world? Both are possible options in that scenario.

 

[msion]

It’s not about forcing positive comments. It’s about encouraging more people to post their experiences so there is a more accurate representation.

@diabeticfootdr To be honest Dr. Rogers did make a difference in my career. I toured his wound care facility in LA while still being a student and was amazed at the set-up. All the doctors there seemed happy as well. Limb salvage was definitely high on my list of skills to pursue at the time. I later did attend a pretty rigorous residency where we also did a lot of rearfoot recon trauma. But what he told me was limb salvage/wound care will always get you into the hospitals, but fighting with Orthos on traumas won't. I spent a lot of time in residency scrubbing cases with plastics when I was not with my Pod attendings. Learned a ton.

I do a lot of soft tissue cases nowadays. Sure I&D and amps may not pay well, but skin grafting and muscle flaps do.
I also never believed in all the wound care crap out there, so instead did surgical ways to offload the ulcer areas. They worked very well and now I work with the local hospital wound care center to feed me these patients.

I also do elective surgeries, but only Austin, 1st MTPJ fusion or Lapidus. Any patients that mention laser surgery or minimally invasive I refer them out to the fancier colleagues in town. If they start talking about Lapiplasty commercials then I also walk out the room and ask my front desk to refer them out. Fully threaded cortical screws for me. Nothing fancy. Not even cannulated. I always ask OR which brand is the cheapest to use and then I use it. If patients want absorbable hardware then I also refer them out. So this leaves me with somewhat a self-selective patient population for surgeries.

I get walk-in Lisfrancs or simple bi-mals from time to time and I am comfortable fixing them. Those are mainly my "trauma" cases. I don't touch Calcs, too much stress and radiation. I got floaters already so gotta take care of my vision.

In this way of practice my billings are also pretty easy. No need to be creative about unbundling procedures to get paid more, or attend the yearly coding sessions. It's usually just one line of CPT for me. Maybe I undercoded on some, but I sleep better that way, plus I can still earn a good living.

JFAS just released a list of the most cited authors. Guess who's #1? Armstrong. That's how the rest of medicine gets to know us.

 

[air bud]

@diabeticfootdr To be honest Dr. Rogers did make a difference in my career. I toured his wound care facility in LA while still being a student and was amazed at the set-up. All the doctors there seemed happy as well. Limb salvage was definitely high on my list of skills to pursue at the time. I later did attend a pretty rigorous residency where we also did a lot of rearfoot recon trauma. But what he told me was limb salvage/wound care will always get you into the hospitals, but fighting with Orthos on traumas won't. I spent a lot of time in residency scrubbing cases with plastics when I was not with my Pod attendings. Learned a ton.

I do a lot of soft tissue cases nowadays. Sure I&D and amps may not pay well, but skin grafting and muscle flaps do.
I also never believed in all the wound care crap out there, so instead did surgical ways to offload the ulcer areas. They worked very well and now I work with the local hospital wound care center to feed me these patients.

I also do elective surgeries, but only Austin, 1st MTPJ fusion or Lapidus. Any patients that mention laser surgery or minimally invasive I refer them out to the fancier colleagues in town. If they start talking about Lapiplasty commercials then I also walk out the room and ask my front desk to refer them out. Fully threaded cortical screws for me. Nothing fancy. Not even cannulated. I always ask OR which brand is the cheapest to use and then I use it. If patients want absorbable hardware then I also refer them out. So this leaves me with somewhat a self-selective patient population for surgeries.

I get walk-in Lisfrancs or simple bi-mals from time to time and I am comfortable fixing them. Those are mainly my "trauma" cases. I don't touch Calcs, too much stress and radiation. I got floaters already so gotta take care of my vision.

In this way of practice my billings are also pretty easy. No need to be creative about unbundling procedures to get paid more, or attend the yearly coding sessions. It's usually just one line of CPT for me. Maybe I undercoded on some, but I sleep better that way, plus I can still earn a good living.

JFAS just released a list of the most cited authors. Guess who's #1? Armstrong. That's how the rest of medicine gets to know us.

Great post. But my person, using cannulated screws is not the devil's work.

 

[billBOB213]

😂😂😂

 

[Weirdy]

View attachment 360313

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I still do not know / have not mastered.

There are a few who have the meme characteristics in spades.

We are judged as a whole by our weakest.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Probably best to make a thread just for the memes!

New thread just for the memes: Memes of Podiatry

If I missed moving one, let me know.

 

[podgal2003]

DPM is a great career choice. This current conversation has a few mere distractions that will run their course. Going down a rabbit hole occurs with every single profession. Good, bad and ugly. Our residency program is graduating professionals who are doing much better than $120 salary starts. Quarter million + salary, flexible career choices, loans paid off, prestigious profession and retiring early can’t be dismissed as unique. It’s the standard we see. Year after year our large program has 100% placement into excellent positions. The ebb and flow of matriculants and available residency positions will continue and we as a profession are poised better than ever to adjust when needed - even with a new college or TWO! This is further evidence of the need our profession fills. Don’t be dissuaded by the few negatives from the minority on this site. The majority of us are not on here. We are working hard, making money, enjoying our careers and saving lives.

 

[CaptainCool]

DPM is a great career choice. This current conversation has a few mere distractions that will run their course. Going down a rabbit hole occurs with every single profession. Good, bad and ugly. Our residency program is graduating professionals who are doing much better than $120 salary starts. Quarter million + salary, flexible career choices, loans paid off, prestigious profession and retiring early can’t be dismissed as unique. It’s the standard we see. Year after year our large program has 100% placement into excellent positions. The ebb and flow of matriculants and available residency positions will continue and we as a profession are poised better than ever to adjust when needed - even with a new college or TWO! This is further evidence of the need our profession fills. Don’t be dissuaded by the few negatives from the minority on this site. The majority of us are not on here. We are working hard, making money, enjoying our careers and saving lives.

What program?

 

[malleolusman]

DPM is a great career choice. This current conversation has a few mere distractions that will run their course. Going down a rabbit hole occurs with every single profession. Good, bad and ugly. Our residency program is graduating professionals who are doing much better than $120 salary starts. Quarter million + salary, flexible career choices, loans paid off, prestigious profession and retiring early can’t be dismissed as unique. It’s the standard we see. Year after year our large program has 100% placement into excellent positions. The ebb and flow of matriculants and available residency positions will continue and we as a profession are poised better than ever to adjust when needed - even with a new college or TWO! This is further evidence of the need our profession fills. Don’t be dissuaded by the few negatives from the minority on this site. The majority of us are not on here. We are working hard, making money, enjoying our careers and saving lives.

Thanks for sharing…That is phenomenal, but unfortunately that isn’t the experience for most of the regular posters on this site - to dismiss the issues this profession has as “negatives” isn’t giving the profession nor its practitioners its due. Given the discrepancy, we would love to know the name of the program as I think it would definitely help podiatry residents who frequent this thread. Please share what program is this?

 

[PeaJay]

DPM is a great career choice. This current conversation has a few mere distractions that will run their course. Going down a rabbit hole occurs with every single profession. Good, bad and ugly. Our residency program is graduating professionals who are doing much better than $120 salary starts. Quarter million + salary, flexible career choices, loans paid off, prestigious profession and retiring early can’t be dismissed as unique. It’s the standard we see. Year after year our large program has 100% placement into excellent positions. The ebb and flow of matriculants and available residency positions will continue and we as a profession are poised better than ever to adjust when needed - even with a new college or TWO! This is further evidence of the need our profession fills. Don’t be dissuaded by the few negatives from the minority on this site. The majority of us are not on here. We are working hard, making money, enjoying our careers and saving lives.

Same could be said about the program I graduated from. This however is not the norm. Also it doesn’t negate the lack of mobility, respect, ect.

 

[Pronation]

DPM is a great career choice. This current conversation has a few mere distractions that will run their course. Going down a rabbit hole occurs with every single profession. Good, bad and ugly. Our residency program is graduating professionals who are doing much better than $120 salary starts. Quarter million + salary, flexible career choices, loans paid off, prestigious profession and retiring early can’t be dismissed as unique. It’s the standard we see. Year after year our large program has 100% placement into excellent positions. The ebb and flow of matriculants and available residency positions will continue and we as a profession are poised better than ever to adjust when needed - even with a new college or TWO! This is further evidence of the need our profession fills. Don’t be dissuaded by the few negatives from the minority on this site. The majority of us are not on here. We are working hard, making money, enjoying our careers and saving lives.

This is such an obvious ABPM shill. It takes one minute to google search pod jobs and see that there are about 8 pod hospital/MSG/ortho openings right now. Call each of them and ask the recruiter how many 100s of apps they get for each position. That’s because the rest of the 600 graduating residents will have to settle for garbage 100k private practice jobs.

Saving lives… AAAAAHAHAHA

 

[HardRoadPaved]

Saving lives… AAAAAHAHAHA

one toenail trim at a time!

 

[heybrother]

Sometimes I think nothing new will ever be said on this forum and then boom - early retirement and 2 new schools but we'll be fine.

 

[deleted1138023]

fake news...

 

[podwho]

Majority of pods are not on here. Many of those making good money. So many of them are also gatekeeping the profession. Why hire another pod when you can just start a new residency? Your hospital needs a pod? Just add a 2nd or 3rd residency position. Heck let’s make it 8. Want privileges for tar or complicated rearfoot? Nah that 65yr old assistant associate division chief doesn’t believe in pods doing them to “get along with ortho”. There’s maybe a total of 100 active positions advertised across the country, at any given moment, I know because I checked. Half are mostly nursing home scams. A quarter are msg hospital in the middle of no where usually. Others are private practice showing off their 125-150 competitive salary. Several large podiatry groups sprinkled in between. And there’s 600 new graduates and probably another 250 in their 2nd yr actively looking to get the hell out. Then another 5% of the other 15000 pods who keep an eye out for something better. Which is why suffering for two year’s then starting your practice where you want is the typical recommended model. Or you make your own luck. As long as you know that, come on in! podiatry schools are happy to welcome you and take your money.

 

[icebreaker32]

This is such an obvious ABPM shill. It takes one minute to google search pod jobs and see that there are about 8 pod hospital/MSG/ortho openings right now. Call each of them and ask the recruiter how many 100s of apps they get for each position. That’s because the rest of the 600 graduating residents will have to settle for garbage 100k private practice jobs.

Saving lives… AAAAAHAHAHA

This is a real person employed by the VA. Podiatry has worked out well enough for them and many of their residents they are aware of.

They have openly said they are not going to renew their APMA membership, but are involved with residency accreditation.

They might not be as in touch with how private practice podiatry is in the majority of this country, but their opinion is not less valid than others on here. Just because their reality and perception of the profession is better than it is for many others does not make them a shill.

There are plenty of residency directors who mean well and are proud how well some of their residents do. I also know of graduates from many these same programs who are struggling…..some even at programs mentioned on here by podiatrists who post under their real name and claim their residents do well.

The job market is really bad all things considered.

If one does not have family money, connections or something else that sets them apart podiatry might not be an ideal career choice if one is not extremely open both geographically and to size of the city they are willing to live in or one is aware of the realities of running and opening a practice. I do not feel the profession adequately represents this. Everyone wants to believe there are good jobs for all at hospitals and multi specialty groups etc, but that is far from true. Things are changing slowly, but the reality is many have a mediocre to poor job for a few years then somehow, someway open their own practice…..it is not easy and is financially and emotionally stressful very often, especially in the early years and not a practice model that lets most leave their work at the office when they walk out the door.

 

[HardRoadPaved]

Majority of pods are not on here. Many of those making good money.

I make a great income, but it has come with significant sacrifice. I was top of my class with a well trained residency. Got out to a saturated market. Offered typical garbage contract in HCOL areas due to family limitations. I'm sorry but the debt load, 7 years of post grad schooling/residency, and poor job outlook for many is just not worth it. Then add insult to injury, insurances pay me less than an MD/DO for the exact same work.

Those applying should be well informed prior to entering this field.

 

[podwho]

I make a great income, but it has come with significant sacrifice. I was top of my class with a well trained residency. Got out to a saturated market. Offered typical garbage contract in HCOL areas due to family limitations. I'm sorry but the debt load, 7 years of post grad schooling/residency, and poor job outlook for many is just not worth it. Then add insult to injury, insurances pay me less than an MD/DO for the exact same work.

Those applying should be well informed prior to entering this field.

just curious how much less? on a % basis.

 

[deleted1142046]

From my own experience and everyone I've talked to, the truth is in between the "Doom and Gloom" and "Hidden Gem of Medicine." As a relatively recent residency graduate, the vast majority of my friends were not at the top of their class are are all doing substantially better than $120k/year and have really good work life balance, with possibly one friend who wanted to move home to a very specific, very desirable location with a small population. No idea what he makes.

Part of the problem I think lies in the fact that so few residency programs give great training. I had attendings that would freak out if they did not have a resident to help them with a toe amputation, and if left alone to do their own toe amputation, it was a 60-90 minute case. No exaggeration. I also had attendings that could bang out a total ankle replacement and I would not hesitate to let them operate on me. How is the rest of the medical field supposed to perceive that? If they refer to a podiatrist, what can they expect them to do? They might send a DM patient with an ulcer to one podiatrist who ultimately does a charcot recon and gets the patient everything else they need (correct DME, A+ wound care after the procedure, etc) whereas the next podiatrist may shrug and go "Well, let me clip those nails, and we'll put some betadine and gauze on that ulcer."

No other specialty, to my knowledge, has that problem. When I consult an ID doctor in the hospital, I don't have to ask myself "Wait, does this specific infectious disease doctor treat multidrug resistant psuedomonas? Or is that something that this specific infectious disease doctor does not do, and I need the double fellowship trained multidrug resistant ID doc?" Nope, instead I know what I'm getting when I consult infectious disease and they help me solve my problems. There's no this massive variation between the top 10% and bottom 10% of infectious disease like there is in podiatry.

Another problem is the job market is so location based. The horror stories of absolutely terrible pay almost always have a common theme: the associate was very limited geographically on where they would work. Not a problem with something like family medicine, but that's a huge problem in podiatry.

One thing I've often wondered is if you're going to work your ass off to be top of your class for podiatry, get top shelf training and possibly even do a top tier fellowship, basically if you are smart and willing to just work your ass off... then why podiatry to begin with? Why not just get the MD where you know you're guaranteed a great job, respect, and mobility? This I think is what causes so much conflict in our field. The top vs bottom 10% of our field is so night and day different, it's like they're not even speaking the same language much less part of the same profession. The bottom 10% is terrified they'll be replaced, forced to operate, or more or less just exposed in general for how incredibly little they know.... and the top 10% is frustrated they are trying to advance the field when our critics (rightfully so) so point out how incredibly undertrained and unknowledgeable much of our profession is.

 

[HardRoadPaved]

just curious how much less? on a % basis.

Coming out I made 100k base + 25% above 300k and of course with no benefits. I grossed 750-900k for my boss (no fraudulent billing like NH clipping, grafts and garbage like formula 3). It took me years to get the funds to get myself financially comfortable to open a practice so my money works for me better. The hardest thing was investing in a practice instead of being a homeowner. More delayed years of gratification. Just dont expect an easy road on your own if HCOL areas are where you want/need to be.

 

[Weirdy]

This is such an obvious ABPM shill. It takes one minute to google search pod jobs and see that there are about 8 pod hospital/MSG/ortho openings right now. Call each of them and ask the recruiter how many 100s of apps they get for each position. That’s because the rest of the 600 graduating residents will have to settle for garbage 100k private practice jobs.

Saving lives… AAAAAHAHAHA

I do not believe they are a shill.

I do believe they are quite a bit out of touch with the current market and discrepancy in training.

 

[Pronation]

I do not believe they are a shill.

I do believe they are quite a bit out of touch with the current market and discrepancy in training.

Perhaps not a shill. However, it's a 2 year old account with no posts up until now and the other posts are in the MD forums trying to peddle podiatry and how much of a le hidden gem it is. IMO this person came here with an agenda.

 

[underwood]

The number 1 problem I see as a third year resident is that there are barely any jobs... it seems like you either have to move middle of nowhere to get a decent paying job... even associate positions that are paying 100k with no benefits are limited and competitive if in a good location. Majority of jobs posted online are nursing homes.
Regardless of how your training was or finishing top 10% in your class etc... its not like there are hundreds of jobs available that are looking for very well trained surgeons...the problems is there are barely any jobs period.

 

[PTPuser]

All the jobs are Health Drive

 

[Pronation]

All the jobs are Health Drive

But think of the flexibility! YOU can decide if you want to set your Dremel speed to low or high when manicuring those nails. Think of the early retirement too! I mean sure it's early retirement due to onychomycosis induced pulmonary fibrosis but still... think of all the the places you could see and explore with your new oxygen tank! And think of the prestige aspect too! Unlike the salon where they say "yo clip my toenails" instead you will hear "Good day DOCTOR, please clip my toenails".