"You have financial cancer": Dave Ramsey weighs in on a pharmacist's 400k+ student loan bill

[mentos]

You don't think your plumber has all of these different expenses as well? Just because your plumber is taking home $3600, he still has to pay taxes on it, and he still has to pay for all the stuff that you mentioned, maybe even more stuff that you don't know about. Why are you so jealous of your plumber? Personally, I would not want to work with crap and mold and who knows what else they find in toilets, plumbers deserve what they get, and I sure don't want their job. If you really think things are better as a plumber, then go back to trade school and become a plumber.

Not jealous, he totally deserves it. I'm just saying they make more than pharmacists. That $3600 was for one job, he had many other jobs that week and the week after that. If you think all of their income gets reported and taxed then I've got a bridge to sell you, same with servers or any other contractors that get paid in cash.

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[owlegrad]

Sounds like we all really missed the bus not becoming plumbers. They undoubtably always make $3600 for a two day job.

 

[BMBiology]

Sounds like we all really missed the bus not becoming plumbers. They undoubtably always make $3600 for a two day job.

You would be surprise. The good ones have multiple jobs going at one time.

 

[wucool33]

Sounds like we all really missed the bus not becoming plumbers. They undoubtably always make $3600 for a two day job.

I don't care how much they make. I just don't get the absolute fascination this forum has with plumbers. The plumber profession has come up more times here than I can count.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

I don't care how much they make. I just don't get the absolute fascination this forum has with plumbers. The plumber profession has come up more times here than I can count.

Computer scientists make more than plumbers or pharmacists.

 

[confettiflyer]

You can totally buy late-model Acura cars for cash on Dave Ramsey's plan. You don't have to sacrifice seat warmers.

I tend to buy new since I take care of my cars (I don’t like the unknown quality of care previous owners have had), so I qualify for the dealer 0% promo after haggling the price down.

I’ve given serious thought to buying used/certified used...but I’m financially well enough to not have to.


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[confettiflyer]

Leasing a car is the worst financial decision. That’s how the car dealers make more money. They make less when you pay the total in cash or check.

Not if you don’t want the depreciating asset sitting on your balance sheet.

But most people won’t know what I’m talking about, anyway.


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[TranslationalRPh]

I tend to buy new since I take care of my cars (I don’t like the unknown quality of care previous owners have had), so I qualify for the dealer 0% promo after haggling the price down.

I’ve given serious thought to buying used/certified used...but I’m financially well enough to not have to.


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I buy certified pre-owned for cash. Like you, I could buy new but I hate that cars typically lose 50% of their value within the first 4 years. I certainly prefer to let someone else take some of the depreciation while I invest the difference. It's just my preference rather than a necessity.

 

[TerryTerry]

I don't care how much they make. I just don't get the absolute fascination this forum has with plumbers. The plumber profession has come up more times here than I can count.

There is no easy job. Plumbing and all other professions people mention here are hardly used as serious suggestions. Most of them are either trying to be funny or sarcastic. The point is not that plumbing is better than pharmacy. The point is that pursuing pharmacy professions currently has no promise of return for most people who take on large amount of debt. Being a pharmacist can also be extremely stressful. Before this stress was justified by job security and pay rate. Now, I just don`t know.

 

[owlegrad]

There is no easy job. Plumbing and all other professions people mention here are hardly used as serious suggestions. Most of them are either trying to be funny or sarcastic. The point is not that plumbing is better than pharmacy. The point is that pursuing pharmacy professions currently has no promise of return for most people who take on large amount of debt. Being a pharmacist can also be extremely stressful. Before this stress was justified by job security and pay rate. Now, I just don`t know.

I don’t know bro, they sound pretty serious to me.

 

[mentos]

There is no easy job. Plumbing and all other professions people mention here are hardly used as serious suggestions. Most of them are either trying to be funny or sarcastic. The point is not that plumbing is better than pharmacy. The point is that pursuing pharmacy professions currently has no promise of return for most people who take on large amount of debt. Being a pharmacist can also be extremely stressful. Before this stress was justified by job security and pay rate. Now, I just don`t know.

I was being serious and agree with you.

Plumber/electrician/HVAC tech/carpenter:
-Free vocational high school training
-no debt
-start at age 18
-start at 60k/year for a company or make double that on your own or do both
-own a home and paid off vehicle by the time you turn 26
-amazing job security. Your phone rings off the hook. Have the luxury of declining work because you're booked solid.
-work wherever you want

Pharmacist:
-200k debt
-start at age 26
-take 3-10 years to pay off loans
-take 3-10 years to own a home and vehicle
-in fear of getting hours cut or getting laid off
-work in BFE

 

[PharmtoCS]

I might add computer programmer:

-<$50k debt
-Start at age 22
-Start at $65k minimum with many opportunities for raises
-Excellent employee benefits including stock options
-Red-hot job market. Multiple job offers, signing bonus before graduation
-Lavish perks: catered gourmet meals, on-site gym and laundry, employee shuttles, on-site daycare (for pets and/or children)
-Opportunities to work from home
-Work <30-35 hours in the office and get paid for 40

 

[confettiflyer]

I buy certified pre-owned for cash. Like you, I could buy new but I hate that cars typically lose 50% of their value within the first 4 years. I certainly prefer to let someone else take some of the depreciation while I invest the difference. It's just my preference rather than a necessity.

That is a rational decision, I applaud you for it. My decision to buy new comes from my deep deep distrust of other people.

And when I mean other people, I mean people like me. I drive rental cars like a sh*thead, I envision people driving their cars that they intend to sell within the next year or two only marginally better.


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[confettiflyer]

I might add computer programmer:

-Lavish perks: catered gourmet meals, on-site gym and laundry, employee shuttles, on-site daycare (for pets and/or children)

Work <30-35 hours in the office and get paid for 40

LOLOLOL

You know....those lavish perks exist to keep you from leaving the office in the first place, right?

None of my friends in tech work anywhere close to 40hrs/week. Working at home is worse because the expectation is you’ll work all the time at home.

I mean...they have way more money than me, but you can’t take it with you.


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[Wickett]

That is a rational decision, I applaud you for it. My decision to buy new comes from my deep deep distrust of other people.

And when I mean other people, I mean people like me. I drive rental cars like a sh*thead, I envision people driving their cars that they intend to sell within the next year or two only marginally better.


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I distrust others too, which is why I bought a separate warranty for my used mustang gt. 100k miles bumper to bumper for $1300....already paid for itself when I only had to pay a flat $100 fee for a $2800 a/c issue. I also paid 13k less than what it would've cost new.

 

[PharmtoCS]

LOLOLOL

You know....those lavish perks exist to keep you from leaving the office in the first place, right?

None of my friends in tech work anywhere close to 40hrs/week. Working at home is worse because the expectation is you’ll work all the time at home.

I mean...they have way more money than me, but you can’t take it with you.


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[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]

They provide lavish perks because they have no choice.

CVS doesn't have to offer any perks because they can use a stick, e.g. the threat of writeups and termination to keep you in the pharmacy for 3+ hours unpaid. They know they can easily replace you with a desperate new grad with $200k+ in loans and you'll have a hard time finding a new job.

Try to treat a software developer the same way and they will jump ship with no notice. They will find a job that pays them 20% more than what they currently make.

 

[owlegrad]

But do the software developers know how good plumbers have it?

 

[Hedgehog32]

[/QUOTE]

They provide lavish perks because they have no choice.

CVS doesn't have to offer any perks because they can use a stick, e.g. the threat of writeups and termination to keep you in the pharmacy for 3+ hours unpaid. They know they can easily replace you with a desperate new grad with $200k+ in loans and you'll have a hard time finding a new job.

Try to treat a software developer the same way and they will jump ship with no notice. They will find a job that pays them 20% more than what they currently make.
[/QUOTE]

Jumping in with a random question here -- are there any relatively short professional/academic pathways into tech/comp sci for someone who is about to graduate with a pharmacy degree? I'm guessing that coding bootcamp would probably be the fastest way to get there. I wonder if there's a way to make use of the Pharm.D. as a tech professional...

 

[gwarm01]

I wonder if there's a way to make use of the Pharm.D. as a tech professional...

There are tech adjacent roles for pharmacists. Working for EHR companies, various tech and automation vendors. It's not the same as being a software developer, but it gets you out of the pharmacy.

 

[confettiflyer]

I distrust others too, which is why I bought a separate warranty for my used mustang gt. 100k miles bumper to bumper for $1300....already paid for itself when I only had to pay a flat $100 fee for a $2800 a/c issue. I also paid 13k less than what it would've cost new.

But how much time did that cost you to take care of?

I’m at a point in life where my time is more valuable than money...getting a/c fixed and dealing with a rental isn’t my idea of a fun Saturday.

But good use of that warranty


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[confettiflyer]

They provide lavish perks because they have no choice.

CVS doesn't have to offer any perks because they can use a stick, e.g. the threat of writeups and termination to keep you in the pharmacy for 3+ hours unpaid. They know they can easily replace you with a desperate new grad with $200k+ in loans and you'll have a hard time finding a new job.

Try to treat a software developer the same way and they will jump ship with no notice. They will find a job that pays them 20% more than what they currently make.

But LOL @ 40hrs a week, again none of my tech friends work 40hrs (unless they’re just on contract doing random projects)


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[PharmtoCS]

Jumping in with a random question here -- are there any relatively short professional/academic pathways into tech/comp sci for someone who is about to graduate with a pharmacy degree? I'm guessing that coding bootcamp would probably be the fastest way to get there. I wonder if there's a way to make use of the Pharm.D. as a tech professional...

A coding bootcamp would be the fastest way. Aside from the rare pharmacy informatics position you'll run across it's unlikely that you'll do anything related to your PharmD.

 

[Wickett]

But how much time did that cost you to take care of?

I’m at a point in life where my time is more valuable than money...getting a/c fixed and dealing with a rental isn’t my idea of a fun Saturday.

But good use of that warranty


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The a/c repair is the only thing, outside normal maintenance, that the car has needed the past 3+ years. It was fixed in 2 days. I also bought it when it was two years old with less than 8k miles on it, so practically new. I'm all about lightly used cars to get the best of both worlds.

 

[mentos]

The a/c repair is the only thing, outside normal maintenance, that the car has needed the past 3+ years. It was fixed in 2 days. I also bought it when it was two years old with less than 8k miles on it, so practically new. I'm all about lightly used cars to get the best of both worlds.

Why does A/C cost so much? The AC compressor in my old CR-V cost almost $750 to fix. I can't imagine paying over $2,000 for AC.

 

[Wickett]

Why does A/C cost so much? The AC compressor in my old CR-V cost almost $750 to fix. I can't imagine paying over $2,000 for AC.

There was a crack in the core, so they had to replace the whole unit. Half the cost was just labor, because you have to open up the whole dash to get to it and all told, it was about 12 hours of work.

 

[footfairy]

There was a crack in the core, so they had to replace the whole unit. Half the cost was just labor, because you have to open up the whole dash to get to it and all told, it was about 12 hours of work.

A lot of smallish repairs on Mustang GTs require removing the dash, A LOT. One of my college buddies had a mechanics garage and he saved another friend a couple of thousand in labor fixing small things that required 4 to 6 hours of labor because the dash had to be removed.

 

[redfish955]

I know lots of data scientists who are ticked off because they have to work in a huge city with a mega high cost of living where their 135k a year salary will not let their spouse stay at home. I also know a lot of engineers who were forced to move to small towns where the plants and factories are located. I know of plumbers who can't afford to live in the nice suburbs. I know of pharmacists who live in 1.8 million dollar homes and drive the latest Masseratis. Every field has it's success story and every field has it's windfalls.

 

[mentos]

I know lots of data scientists who are ticked off because they have to work in a huge city with a mega high cost of living where their 135k a year salary will not let their spouse stay at home. I also know a lot of engineers who were forced to move to small towns where the plants and factories are located. I know of plumbers who can't afford to live in the nice suburbs. I know of pharmacists who live in 1.8 million dollar homes and drive the latest Masseratis. Every field has it's success story and every field has it's windfalls.

A pharmacist in a 1.8 million dollar home with a Masserati? They surely didn't pay for that with earned income. Do they own a business, make it big in the stock market?

 

[redfish955]

A pharmacist in a 1.8 million dollar home with a Masserati? They surely didn't pay for that with earned income. Do they own a business, make it big in the stock market?

They own a very successful compounding pharmacy. Their spouse is a true and true trophy wife who hasn't worked in years. Compounding Pharmacist Salary. He had like twenty technicians mixing for him.

 

[mentos]

They own a very successful compounding pharmacy. Their spouse is a true and true trophy wife who hasn't worked in years. Compounding Pharmacist Salary. He had like twenty technicians mixing for him.

Very nice, living the dream!

 

[Sparda29]

I was gonna lose my **** if we went to war with Iran. These fks are telling us we have the money to go to war with Iran or to kill Iranian generals (imo Solemani was the hero who took down ISIS) but we don’t have the money to implement Medicare4All or forgive student loan debt.

Honestly the Iranian hackers should target the government financial computers and erase the student loan debt records.