"You have financial cancer": Dave Ramsey weighs in on a pharmacist's 400k+ student loan bill

[PharmtoCS]

The baby boomers brainwashed us all to go to the "best" colleges no matter the cost. They laughed at me when I bragged about my 2 year full ride to my local community college when I was a senior in HS. Who's debt free (except mortgage) and laughing now?

The sad thing is that all the pre-pharms and students have that same view of those decide went into engineering, computer science, finance, the trades, etc. because they’ll have a doctorate and everyone else will have “only” a bachelors or less.

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[Lubeckd]

The sad thing is that all the pre-pharms and students have that same view of those decide went into engineering, computer science, finance, the trades, etc. because they’ll have a doctorate and everyone else will have “only” a bachelors or less.

MY friend self taught himself and got into a computer job.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

just like people are becoming doctors, pharmacist, its all for the prestige, I don't see anyone here a plumber who can make the same amount. Its what society perceives. You are paying for the connections at this point like ivy MBA vs mba

If it didn't involve standing in human feces on a regular basis, I'd consider it.

 

[confettiflyer]

It's too bad that Dave Ramsey didn't suggest getting a job that qualifies for the PSLF program. I'm on an income-based plan and aiming for loan forgiveness in a few years, and I can tell you that my qualify of life has never suffered because of it.

Same here, I’m a few years away. All my ducks are in a row (so the recent “shocker” articles re: PSLF are irrelevant).

Now, this mortgage though...

 

[Lubeckd]

If it didn't involve standing in human feces on a regular basis, I'd consider it.

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[PumpkinSmasher]

I don’t know which medical school your wife went to because it sounds really dirt cheap. Take USC School of Medicine for example. Their tuition is $100,000 per year.

Your example of "typical" is one of the most expensive medical schools in the nation....nonsense.

She went to Baylor.

 

[Hels2007]

Wow. I had just under $50K in loans when I graduated (later added on another $10K when I did my master's). Unless I was going for an MD and I knew I have the grades and the guts to get into a really high paying subspecialty, no way would I go for $400K+ in student loans. That's just a bad investment.

I would have had less than $50K but my car was totaled in the winter of my P1 year when an idiot in the opposite lane lost control of his car and slammed into mine, so I took extra loans to pay off my car loan. That was back in the day when even with my Dad co-signing, I couldn't get better than 8% on the car loan, but student loans were 1-2% interest... now, of course, they will give you car loans essentially for free, yet student loans have crazy interest.

 

[AM77]

Your example of "typical" is one of the most expensive medical schools in the nation....nonsense.

She went to Baylor.

Never heard of it.

 

[mentos]

Sounds like all of the debt is hers and her husband makes 90k with no debt. Dude got played.

 

[Splenda88]

Her situation is not that bad TBH... They can pay that student loan in 6 yrs while living a lower-middle-class lifestyle...

 

[BC_89]

I was an idiot who succumbed to parental pressure and went to LIU for the prestige when I had a full scholarship offered to me at CUNY, Hofstra, and SUNY Buffalo.

...ouch...

 

[SCRph2014]

This is ridiculous. Did she not pay ANYTHING over the last 5 years? I graduated 5 years ago as well with around $97k student loan debt also from a private college. She must have taken out school loans in excess to pay for housing, food, parties, etc, which is the dumbest thing I'm glad my parents never let me do

 

[Sparda29]

I didn't know Liu has prestige. It just has connections

No, like literally my parents argument was "what if you go to Hofstra and can't get into the professional phase program anywhere, besides isn't Hofstra a party school, no way are you going to a party school", "Buffalo???? No, you're gonna be way too far away from us!!! And it's just a state school!!", "CUNY, hell no, all the other south asians go there!"

They were like "oh you know Mr.X, his cousins wifes daughter in law went to LIU and she got all the best job offers, and she's working at Cornell hospital, and you know Mr. Y, his grandson went to St. Johns and he is stuck at CVS". This was back in 2005 btw.

Meanwhile, after being around the game for a bit, I've realized that all these "top hospitals" in NYC are probably some of the worst places to work as a staff pharmacist, other than Colombia Presbyterian and NYU which are some pretty sweet gigs. Cornell is a absolute hell hole though.

I prefer the quiet life at a small community hospital any day. I got a sweet 7 day on 7 day off overnight shift, $74/hour. Unrestricted ethernet port for my laptop so I can play some Counter-Strike in between phone calls. It's pretty much dead from 1AM-6AM. No official guidelines/protocols on how to do things, director respects the pharmacists and doesn't care for additional qualifications. (The new clinical pharmacy manager is a chick who's been a staff pharmacist for 12 years, they turned down a bunch of the PGY2 + board certified types.)

 

[Lubeckd]

No, like literally my parents argument was "what if you go to Hofstra and can't get into the professional phase program anywhere, besides isn't Hofstra a party school, no way are you going to a party school", "Buffalo???? No, you're gonna be way too far away from us!!! And it's just a state school!!", "CUNY, hell no, all the other south asians go there!"

They were like "oh you know Mr.X, his cousins wifes daughter in law went to LIU and she got all the best job offers, and she's working at Cornell hospital, and you know Mr. Y, his grandson went to St. Johns and he is stuck at CVS". This was back in 2005 btw.

Meanwhile, after being around the game for a bit, I've realized that all these "top hospitals" in NYC are probably some of the worst places to work as a staff pharmacist, other than Colombia Presbyterian and NYU which are some pretty sweet gigs. Cornell is a absolute hell hole though.

I prefer the quiet life at a small community hospital any day. No official guidelines/protocols on how to do things, director respects the pharmacists and doesn't care for additional qualifications. (The new clinical pharmacy manager is a chick who's been a staff pharmacist for 12 years, they turned down a bunch of the PGY2 + board certified types.)

I went to LIU as a transfer student as CUNY. Got accepted into other programs but LIU send me a reject letter then called me and said it was a mistake, I was accepted. I meet a lot of people who shouldnt be in pharmacy in my class. And a lot had to ask me to help them find jobs. As for touro students, I meet several who were in liu prepharm and talked smack about the liu program. But we dont have any problems on compounding, or Naplex. The residencies slots and rotations were really good. Education maybe the same but our professors made sure we did good in compounding and Professor Gonzalez is in the broad of pharmacy there. For the other programs. I dont think it was good, but the sports and healthcare were good

 

[Lubeckd]

Actually I passed my compounding in touro, you guys have video game lounges. One of our professors became a Dean in your school now. The hardest professor we had... cohen

 

[Sparda29]

I went to LIU as a transfer student as CUNY. Got accepted into other programs but LIU send me a reject letter then called me and said it was a mistake, I was accepted. I meet a lot of people who shouldnt be in pharmacy in my class. And a lot had to ask me to help them find jobs. As for touro students, I meet several who were in liu prepharm and talked smack about the liu program. But we dont have any problems on compounding, or Naplex. The residencies slots and rotations were really good. Education maybe the same but our professors made sure we did good in compounding and Professor Gonzalez is in the broad of pharmacy there. For the other programs. I dont think it was good, but the sports and healthcare were good

Ya, I went to Touro. I felt like they wasted our time on the "public health" portion of the program. That's why they ended up changing the program a bit 3 years after I graduated, apparently 2014 had one of the ****tiest NAPLEX pass rates ever. I had a rotation that I failed there because I refused to go out on the street to hawk free condoms and free HIV tests.

I wanted to tell the preceptor "this is ****ing NYC, no one wants you to stop them, no one cares about whatever message you're trying to get across, the only people who will take the free condoms and lube are the middle and high school kids".

 

[Lubeckd]

Ya, I went to Touro. I felt like they wasted our time on the "public health" portion of the program. That's why they ended up changing the program a bit 3 years after I graduated, apparently 2014 had one of the ****tiest NAPLEX pass rates ever. I had a rotation that I failed there because I refused to go out on the street to hawk free condoms and free HIV tests.

I wanted to tell the preceptor "this is ****ing NYC, no one wants you to stop them, no one cares about whatever message you're trying to get across, the only people who will take the free condoms and lube are the middle and high school kids".

yeah I think you guys focus more on public health. Some new schools are adding religion to their curriculum, do you get a public health degree with it? LIU is adding mba now to the pharmd

 

[Lubeckd]

No, like literally my parents argument was "what if you go to Hofstra and can't get into the professional phase program anywhere, besides isn't Hofstra a party school, no way are you going to a party school", "Buffalo???? No, you're gonna be way too far away from us!!! And it's just a state school!!", "CUNY, hell no, all the other south asians go there!"

They were like "oh you know Mr.X, his cousins wifes daughter in law went to LIU and she got all the best job offers, and she's working at Cornell hospital, and you know Mr. Y, his grandson went to St. Johns and he is stuck at CVS". This was back in 2005 btw.

Meanwhile, after being around the game for a bit, I've realized that all these "top hospitals" in NYC are probably some of the worst places to work as a staff pharmacist, other than Colombia Presbyterian and NYU which are some pretty sweet gigs. Cornell is a absolute hell hole though.

I prefer the quiet life at a small community hospital any day. I got a sweet 7 day on 7 day off overnight shift, $74/hour. Unrestricted ethernet port for my laptop so I can play some Counter-Strike in between phone calls. It's pretty much dead from 1AM-6AM. No official guidelines/protocols on how to do things, director respects the pharmacists and doesn't care for additional qualifications. (The new clinical pharmacy manager is a chick who's been a staff pharmacist for 12 years, they turned down a bunch of the PGY2 + board certified types.)

One classmate from my class became a professor in our school after pgy2. I knew a guy from 2014, and he talks a lot of smack lol.

 

[BenJammin]

If you take less than 5 years to pay off $150k in student loans, you are probably a dead beat.

 

[Lubeckd]

If you take less than 5 years to pay off $150k in student loans, you are probably a dead beat.

what do you mean by that?

 

[mentos]

what do you mean by that?

Probably meant to say "if you take more than 5 years"

 

[mentos]

No, like literally my parents argument was "what if you go to Hofstra and can't get into the professional phase program anywhere, besides isn't Hofstra a party school, no way are you going to a party school", "Buffalo???? No, you're gonna be way too far away from us!!! And it's just a state school!!", "CUNY, hell no, all the other south asians go there!"

They were like "oh you know Mr.X, his cousins wifes daughter in law went to LIU and she got all the best job offers, and she's working at Cornell hospital, and you know Mr. Y, his grandson went to St. Johns and he is stuck at CVS". This was back in 2005 btw.

Meanwhile, after being around the game for a bit, I've realized that all these "top hospitals" in NYC are probably some of the worst places to work as a staff pharmacist, other than Colombia Presbyterian and NYU which are some pretty sweet gigs. Cornell is a absolute hell hole though.

I prefer the quiet life at a small community hospital any day. I got a sweet 7 day on 7 day off overnight shift, $74/hour. Unrestricted ethernet port for my laptop so I can play some Counter-Strike in between phone calls. It's pretty much dead from 1AM-6AM. No official guidelines/protocols on how to do things, director respects the pharmacists and doesn't care for additional qualifications. (The new clinical pharmacy manager is a chick who's been a staff pharmacist for 12 years, they turned down a bunch of the PGY2 + board certified types.)

Wow you seem to get unicorn job after unicorn job, how do you do it?!

 

[greenteapanacea]

We have some of the highest property tax rates in the country. $300k home is probably close to $9k a year in taxes and that's on the lower end.

Come to NJ or MA where we have both high income and property tax. RIP.

 

[greenteapanacea]

No, like literally my parents argument was "what if you go to Hofstra and can't get into the professional phase program anywhere, besides isn't Hofstra a party school, no way are you going to a party school", "Buffalo???? No, you're gonna be way too far away from us!!! And it's just a state school!!", "CUNY, hell no, all the other south asians go there!"

They were like "oh you know Mr.X, his cousins wifes daughter in law went to LIU and she got all the best job offers, and she's working at Cornell hospital, and you know Mr. Y, his grandson went to St. Johns and he is stuck at CVS". This was back in 2005 btw.

Meanwhile, after being around the game for a bit, I've realized that all these "top hospitals" in NYC are probably some of the worst places to work as a staff pharmacist, other than Colombia Presbyterian and NYU which are some pretty sweet gigs. Cornell is a absolute hell hole though.

I prefer the quiet life at a small community hospital any day. I got a sweet 7 day on 7 day off overnight shift, $74/hour. Unrestricted ethernet port for my laptop so I can play some Counter-Strike in between phone calls. It's pretty much dead from 1AM-6AM. No official guidelines/protocols on how to do things, director respects the pharmacists and doesn't care for additional qualifications. (The new clinical pharmacy manager is a chick who's been a staff pharmacist for 12 years, they turned down a bunch of the PGY2 + board certified types.)

Can you actually walk me through some of the NYC hospitals? I might move there eventually....

 

[mentos]

Come to NJ or MA where we have both high income and property tax. RIP.

Plus high cost of living! $300+ heating bills are average in the winter. You'll need a whole winter wardrobe, snowblower or snowplow guy, shovels, salt etc. Hopefully your furnace doesn't break or power doesn't go out for an extended time so your pipes don't freeze and flood your home. Hopefully an ice dam doesn't form on your roof and flood your attic. Your vehicles will corrode quickly from the road salt and the potholes will mess up your suspension. New brakes and rotors are required every few years and your exhaust system will rust out by 150k miles. Meanwhile, cars from the 80s and 90s look brand new in CA. Why do we live here again?

 

[BenJammin]

Yeah my bad. $150k in 5 years is easy. If you can't do that you're a deadbeat

 

[lane one]

I used to work at CVS in SoCal and a bunch of the new grads were from USC. I hope that tuition money was worth the connections.

God that was savage.

 

[BidingMyTime]

I prefer the quiet life at a small community hospital any day. I got a sweet 7 day on 7 day off overnight shift, $74/hour. Unrestricted ethernet port for my laptop so I can play some Counter-Strike in between phone calls. It's pretty much dead from 1AM-6AM. No official guidelines/protocols on how to do things, director respects the pharmacists and doesn't care for additional qualifications. (The new clinical pharmacy manager is a chick who's been a staff pharmacist for 12 years, they turned down a bunch of the PGY2 + board certified types.)

This sounds like a dream job! Let me know if you ever plan to leave! (Although I guess I would have to pass NY compound exam first.)

 

[deleted562805]

Aired yesterday on his show. Enjoy Dave's multiple looks of shock and confusion

someone was clearly was not paying interest on those loans. those loan interest adds up

 

[deleted562805]

The sad thing is that all the pre-pharms and students have that same view of those decide went into engineering, computer science, finance, the trades, etc. because they’ll have a doctorate and everyone else will have “only” a bachelors or less.

lets also include nursing with engineering. I have a friend who is debt-free other than mortgage

 

[deleted562805]

its not that it is dirt cheap but USC tuition is expensive....
all of my physician friends graduated with around 250K in loans from med school. If you get in-state tuition, its even better.

There is a dentist on the WSJ news with 1,000,000 dollars in debt for USC dental school

 

[confettiflyer]

There is a dentist on the WSJ news with 1,000,000 dollars in debt for USC dental school

But at least you can do stuff like Botox injections and charge people for it ::::

 

[BidingMyTime]

But at least you can do stuff like Botox injections and charge people for it ::::

No worries (apparently) for the dentist. He is paying the minimum required, and expecting to have it all forgiven in 25 years.

 

[PikminOC]

If a person goes to a private undergrad and private grad school the debt can stack quickly...

 

[greenteapanacea]

This sounds like a dream job! Let me know if you ever plan to leave! (Although I guess I would have to pass NY compound exam first.)

You don't have to take the compounding exam if you reciprocate.

 

[King2440]

Yeah my bad. $150k in 5 years is easy. If you can't do that you're a deadbeat

Eh fake news

Maybe someone didn’t want to live in their parents basement and decided to get married, buy a house, have kids...you know live that thing called life. Travel a bit to enjoy and be sane from the ridiculousness of pharmacy. I know many people that do it in 10 years just fine. To each their own.

 

[BenJammin]

If the debt lifestyle is what you want to live then good for you. It still makes you a deadbeat. Pay your bills THEN live life. Or do both at the same time as your financially responsible peers did. Don't give me this nonsense about how your $25k wedding is "living life".

 

[confettiflyer]

Debts are negotiable anyway. Any business that operates knows this. We as people need to be more businesslike and less emotional about “paying off debt”

 

[Lubeckd]

If the debt lifestyle is what you want to live then good for you. It still makes you a deadbeat. Pay your bills THEN live life. Or do both at the same time as your financially responsible peers did. Don't give me this nonsense about how your $25k wedding is "living life".

The wedding and kids though.

 

[Wickett]

Eh fake news

Maybe someone didn’t want to live in their parents basement and decided to get married, buy a house, have kids...you know live that thing called life. Travel a bit to enjoy and be sane from the ridiculousness of pharmacy. I know many people that do it in 10 years just fine. To each their own.

Or you could hold off instant gratification for just a little bit (esp if you are graduating in your 20s) and just get that albatross taken care of first. You can still have a rich life while holding off for a few years on the picket fence, trips to Maui and popping out kids immediately. Doing so will set up the rest of your life without crushing debt. I get the sentiment, and I would say paying in 10 years is better than a lot do, and it would especially be ok if pharmacy was in a relatively healthy state. With the current labor market and uncertain market forces pharmacy currently faces, not paying off your loans quickly seems to be playing a game of economic russian roulette. But like you said, to each their own.

 

[gwarm01]

I don't understand how it makes you a deadbeat when paying off your loans per the agreed upon terms? I definitely wasn't in a position to pay mine off in five years, but I've never missed a payment. Paid a hell in a lot in interest too.

 

[Sparda29]

Can you actually walk me through some of the NYC hospitals? I might move there eventually....

If the hospital pharmacy is in the union, then it's most likely a good gig. If not in the union, beware.

The hospital I'm at has some weird politics going on between the millennials and baby boomers. The millennials are the majority and management is either late Gen X or early millennial. Everyone talks **** about one particular baby boomer but I'm trying to avoid getting involved.

 

[greenteapanacea]

If the hospital pharmacy is in the union, then it's most likely a good gig. If not in the union, beware.

The hospital I'm at has some weird politics going on between the millennials and baby boomers. The millennials are the majority and management is either late Gen X or early millennial. Everyone talks **** about one particular baby boomer but I'm trying to avoid getting involved.

Whoa, Presbyterian and Northwell are unionized? How much are union dues?

 

[CardinalGirl210]

Her situation is not that bad TBH... They can pay that student loan in 6 yrs while living a lower-middle-class lifestyle...

if she doesn't get laid off in this job market

 

[Sparda29]

Whoa, Presbyterian and Northwell are unionized? How much are union dues?

Only Columbia Presbyterian is unionized, NOT Cornell Presbyterian (**** place to work).

As for Northwell, some of the hospitals within it are in the union, some aren't.

I believe 1199 dues are 100 dollars a month pre tax.

 

[greenteapanacea]

Only Columbia Presbyterian is unionized, NOT Cornell Presbyterian (**** place to work).

As for Northwell, some of the hospitals within it are in the union, some aren't.

I believe 1199 dues are 100 dollars a month pre tax.

You're making my day haha.

 

[spacecowgirl]

I don't understand how it makes you a deadbeat when paying off your loans per the agreed upon terms? I definitely wasn't in a position to pay mine off in five years, but I've never missed a payment. Paid a hell in a lot in interest too.

But you get a prize when you die for "Paid Minimal Interest During Life". Who wants to jeopardize that?

 

[owlegrad]

But you get a prize when you die for "Paid Minimal Interest During Life". Who wants to jeopardize that?

Is there a prize for “paid maximum interest during life”?

 

[confettiflyer]

I don't understand how it makes you a deadbeat when paying off your loans per the agreed upon terms? I definitely wasn't in a position to pay mine off in five years, but I've never missed a payment. Paid a hell in a lot in interest too.

People don’t understand not paying a debt is also abiding by the terms of a contract. Negotiating a debt is also abiding by such terms since the terms are changed, and taking advantage of government programs and laws to discharge debt is also abiding by terms of a contract.

People just salty. Pretty simple. My financial directives are to a) pay as little in taxes as possible by aggressively deducting expenses until the IRS says no and b) externalize as much of my student debt as possible back onto the federal government.

No apologies at all.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Is there a prize for “paid maximum interest during life”?

IDK but I sure hope so!