Yellow Ribbon Programs for Low GPA Students

[SaltySailor]

Hello all,

I'm currently serving as an officer in the US Navy. I'm 27 and my undergrad GPA was a 2.89 I'd like to enter medical school and I realize this is a significant obstacle for doing so. I was an English major with no prior science background which is why I thought a post-bacc program would really help me. I am only interested in American medical schools and do not want to become a doctor in the military.

I'd like to use my post 9/11 GI-bill benefits to pay for my post-bacc education. In addition to this, I'd also like to use the Yellow Ribbon program benefits. In order to receive the benefits from these program, the institution must award a degree/certificate.

So, does anyone know of a school that is willing to accept someone with a low GPA, offers a degree/certificate, AND participates in the Yellow Ribbon Program for veterans?

Thank you for your time. Any responses are greatly appreciated.

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[DrMidlife]

I suggest going after a 2nd bachelors degree in a science major of your choice at a regular university. Start slow, take one math class, get an A, then get yourself admitted as degree-seeking and get nothing but A's. Every grade you get that isn't an A is a step away from med school.

Typical objection: that takes too long!
My response: cry me a river, you want to be a doctor from a 2.89 then suck it up (I was a 2.8ish)

Other typical objection: I don't need another bachelors degree
My response: that's not the point, the point is to be ready for med school and get accepted at the best one you can

Other typical objection: but I could go get a masters
My response: and that would do nothing to get you into med school because med schools have to compare undergrad apples to undergrad apples against the national standard of the MCAT

Other speculated objection: but the govt won't pay if I take one class outside a degree program
My response: getting the government to cover 100% of the bill better not be pri 1 here

Thank you for your service and best of luck to you.

 

[SaltySailor]

Thank you for your response DrMidlife.

OK, this is a dumb question but, If I got a second bachelors degree would I still need to get a post-bacc?

Also, is this the same route you took to get into your medical school? Can I ask where you were accepted to? Was it an MD program?

I know this seems a bit snotty coming from a person with my credentials, but I'm really not interested in DO schools. I don't like the idea of osteopathic manipulation and, if accepted, would hate to take up a spot at a DO school because I didn't get into a MD school. I feel that this wouldn't be right for the school or myself, if that makes sense.

Thanks again.

 

[Hailstorm]

You're never going to make yourself a competitive GPA applicant to a MD school, you can do the work but at the end of the day you're going to have to convince somebody to give you the benefit of the doubt based on other factors (upward trends, SMP, amazing MCAT, dedication, personal statement, whatever).

I don't necessarily know why you'd want to pursue your upper level science at an undergrad school though, since if you're completely set on a MD school I would presume (DrMidlife has actual experience whereas I have none so keep that in mind) you'd be better served doing them in a SMP.

I would keep your options open regarding DO school, you never know how you might feel 4-5 years into the future. As DrMidlife alluded to, you're in a hole and anything other than As is going to dig you deeper so make sure that you're completely dedicated since you have a very long, hard road ahead of you.

You can click on her MDApps profile in her link and get a synopsis of what she did. Keep in mind that the EVMS programs linkage as of this year is in question as they've expanded the program. When you're looking at admission stats, make sure that you account for specific states of residency and that a lot of the lower GPA applicants that are accepted have performed exceptionally in SMPs, may have extensive research experiences, be committed to an aspect of medicine that a school values, and/or be of a desired demographic.

 

[DrMidlife]

Thank you for your response DrMidlife.

OK, this is a dumb question but, If I got a second bachelors degree would I still need to get a post-bacc?

Also, is this the same route you took to get into your medical school? Can I ask where you were accepted to? Was it an MD program?

I know this seems a bit snotty coming from a person with my credentials, but I'm really not interested in DO schools. I don't like the idea of osteopathic manipulation and, if accepted, would hate to take up a spot at a DO school because I didn't get into a MD school. I feel that this wouldn't be right for the school or myself, if that makes sense.

Thanks again.

I did a 2nd bachelors and also had to do an SMP to get into EVMS, which is a low tier US MD school.

Being in a degree program is to help you financially, but it's irrelevant to your cumulative GPA...and cumulative GPA is your fate. A 2nd bachelors is a postbac. All postbac means is "more undergrad after you have a bachelors". And 2-3 more years of undergrad however you do it may still not be enough to get into med school. There is a fair bit of gambling on any GPA redemption path.

There's a fairly short list of things you need to demonstrate to be taken seriously, and with a low GPA all the other things need to be completely solid. So please take a look at my agonizingly long reapplication dissertation that explains the most common misconceptions about getting into med school. Honestly I think laziness and passivity are the biggest problems. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=942893

About GPA: you have damage, and you have an opportunity. If you do really well in all of your schoolwork from here on, and you're basically "med school material" then I would certainly bet on you. A 2.89 majoring in English says take it slow. I cannot overemphasize the need to show a before vs. after picture on your transcripts. Squeaky clean. Your sell needs to look like this: wow look at the new mature academic achieving version of SaltySailor and a war veteran too!

Back of the envelope calcs: if you do 2 more years of undergrad at a 3.7, you will hit about 3.16 cumulative. 3 more years you hit 3.23, which is not worth the extra year. Let me be clear that your new transcript has to look like you're a completely different student, and a high GPA in difficult coursework for 2 years is your ticket. But, a low 3's cumulative GPA is still a major disadvantage against the fresh shiny embryonic other applicants. So you have to seriously max out the rest of your application, and you may want to consider doing an SMP on top of those 2 years of undergrad.

More reading on low GPA comebacks:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=827879
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=125347

PM me if you want help hashing this out, but honestly it takes several months to wrap your brain around it all.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Blue Spoon]

As a former military that had a low GPA I agree with DrMidlife and although I am not an expert on it another option might be the Texas Fresh Start program. Since you are military work to change your state of residency to TX. I believe this program allows you to start with an academic clean slate at TX schools. TX has a number of excellent MD schools. Just a thought.

Good Luck.

 

[SaltySailor]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I greatly appreciate you helping me!

This is very discouraging. Never in my life would I have imagined one number, (my GPA), would have such an impact on my career aspirations. I can't tell you how incredibly angry I am at myself for my performance during my undergrad years. I didn't party at all in college, believe it or not, I was just very depressed and sought clinical care at the time.

OK, enough venting. Excuses aside, I'll try and deal with this situation as best I can.

Blue Spoon, do you know if it's legal for me to do this? I live in California at the moment. I have friends who live in Texas, but no direct family members who reside there. Do you know if the Fresh Start Program wipes your academic record completely clean? Would I have to take all pre-rec courses, (like English 101), over again?

I appreciate everyone's honest responses on here, but this seems like a losing battle in the long run. To make myself marginally competitive I'd have to essentially repeat my entire undergrad courses. I realize why this is so, but it seems at this point that if one has a low GPA and wants to attend medical school, perhaps the best solution is to find another career all together.

This is extremely frustrating, as I was pretty set on begin a doctor and studying medicine. Now the mistakes I've made in the past come to haunt me and I feel like killing myself because it.

OK enough ranting and complaining . Thanks everyone for your help!

 

[SN12357]

You're never going to make yourself a competitive GPA applicant to a MD school....

This is objectively false, particularly for an applicant with a military background.

If the OP nails all of their premed requirements, bringing their GPA above a 3.0 (to avoid autoscreens out), and gets a 30+ MCAT they absolutely have a shot at MD schools. Exactly how much of a shot will depend on state of residence, but certainly MD is a possibility.

I echo the advice to take things slowly easing into the prereqs and don't fall on your face suddenly taking 4 sciences if you've never taken them before. You can do this either through an 'informal' postbacc (enrolling as a non-degree student) or a second bachelors. The best choice will depend on exactly how your GI benefits can be used.

Yes, this process takes time. That time pays off later.

Your GPA will not define you for the rest of your life. However, medical schools need to know you can handle intense science courses. You didn't prove it in undergrad, so you need to prove it now. That takes time.

 

[DrMidlife]

Last I checked, Texas fresh start means your last 10 years of college grades are wiped out. Usually it means starting over as if you never went to college. This is only valid for Texas med schools. Totally pointless unless you are committed to Texas. Also, you have to live in Texas as a non-student for more than a year to get Texas residency, which you need to do before you can go to school cheaply in Texas, which makes sense if you think like a taxpayer. So the Texas plan is on the order of 5-7 years before applying to med school. There's no guarantee that fresh start will still be Texas law in 5-7 years.

To review, my GPA was lower than yours, and I'm in a US MD school. You went way too far in beating yourself up and getting frustrated. If your sanity rests on knowing that everything will be okay, this is not a good career path. Med school and residency are extremely taxing at an emotional, physical and mental level.

Best advice I ever received: if there's another career in which you'd be happy, then for the love of all that's holy do something other than medicine.

A whole lot of people set out on a GPA redemption path and give up. There's no shame in that. And a bunch of us around here set out on a GPA redemption path and now we're in med school. The key is not quitting (in addition to having what it takes).

Best of luck to you.

 

[SaltySailor]

Thanks to everyone who replied. I greatly appreciate your help! I really do.

Perhaps this question is best suited for a different section of this forum, but does anyone know of any schools that allow student to apply as second bachelor degree students? I'd love to study chemistry. I did a general search and nothing really came up besides UC Berkeley's chemistry program. However, they only take "highly competitive" applicants, which I'm assuming excludes me with my 2.89 GPA

Again, any help would be great thanks!

 

[DrMidlife]

Thanks to everyone who replied. I greatly appreciate your help! I really do.

Perhaps this question is best suited for a different section of this forum, but does anyone know of any schools that allow student to apply as second bachelor degree students? I'd love to study chemistry. I did a general search and nothing really came up besides UC Berkeley's chemistry program. However, they only take "highly competitive" applicants, which I'm assuming excludes me with my 2.89 GPA

Again, any help would be great thanks!

Well, first, don't pick the hardest UC to get into. Also, there was a global economic meltdown in 2008 and California cut education funding so you're not going to see UC's and CSU's offer 2nd bachelors much. Also the sequester. Also the federal government is out of money at the end of the month. Point being you might actually have better odds at a Stanford than a UC right now.

Look at the colleges close to where you live and get on their websites. Figure out what chemistry-related majors they have (look at biochem as well). Then look at their admissions websites. After all this time I can scope a school in about 10 seconds.

For example, Old Dominion up the street here has this page: http://odu.edu/admission/undergraduate/second-degree

I don't know what the GI bill rules are with respect to doing a private school, but look at ones like Santa Clara, St. Mary's and UOP or similar. These are too small to have all options enumerated on their website - call admissions and say you're a veteran and can you help me figure this out?

Meanwhile, California is a huge disadvantage for med school, compared to states that have fewer instate candidates for a higher percentage of med school seats.

Keep in mind that you have to be the grownup on GPA redemption. Premed and admissions advisers will NOT understand the concept of trying to go to med school from a sub-3.0 and will directly tell you not to. You may want to act like you want to be a high school science teacher or whatnot, just to get them to try to help you.

How I did it in Washington state:
1. Enrolled in summer open school classes, paid cash, got straight A's in math & science
2. Got support letters from those professors
3. Applied for admission as "5th year postbac" in the fall
4. Kept taking classes, paying cash and getting A's
5. Got accepted for winter or spring (can't remember)
6. Then applied for the major I wanted
7. Got into the major and now I'm degree seeking. Boom.

It should be easier as a veteran, so play the hell out of that card. But bottom line, you have to go after this and not quit when it looks like the hoops are infinite.

Best of luck to you.

 

[jetsfan1234]

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[LaughingGas]

Hello all,

I'm currently serving as an officer in the US Navy. I'm 27 and my undergrad GPA was a 2.89 I'd like to enter medical school and I realize this is a significant obstacle for doing so. I was an English major with no prior science background which is why I thought a post-bacc program would really help me. I am only interested in American medical schools and do not want to become a doctor in the military.

I'd like to use my post 9/11 GI-bill benefits to pay for my post-bacc education. In addition to this, I'd also like to use the Yellow Ribbon program benefits. In order to receive the benefits from these program, the institution must award a degree/certificate.

So, does anyone know of a school that is willing to accept someone with a low GPA, offers a degree/certificate, AND participates in the Yellow Ribbon Program for veterans?

Thank you for your time. Any responses are greatly appreciated.

I just completed a second bachelors at CSU-Northridge. Tutition and living expenses are reasonable. Not a cut throat environment, supportive advisor and lots of research opportunity if you are committed. I am not sure if CSUN offers the requirements you are looking for, but it's fairly easy to gain admissions. I was admitted with a lower GPA than yours.