Year off research before med school

[Charles_Carmichael]

I searched around for threads that asked similar questions as the ones I have and while I found some explaining the various types of research you can do in radonc, etc, I didn't really find anything regarding my particular situation. I apologize if a similar thread was indeed posted and I just suck at searching.

I'm a senior in Molecular & Cellular Biology and I will be taking a year off between college and med school (ie. I'll be applying to med school this upcoming cycle). I've always been very interested in cancer and have developed an interest in radiation oncology a while ago. I've been doing neuroimmunology research (basic science lab) for 1.5 years now and while I've enjoyed it, I want to try my hand at either clinical or tranlational research during the year off.

How hard would it be for me to get into a clinical or translational radonc lab since I don't have any medical training? I'm very well versed in cancer cell biology, immunology/tumor immunology, & physiology (got an A+ in all those upper division courses). What else can I do to make myself an attractive candidate for clinical research labs? I'm considering teaching myself radiobiology since my school does not offer a course on it; would that be any beneficial or would I just be wasting my time? I'm also wondering how meaningful spending a year in a clinical/translational lab would be for me (ie. how many publications I can get, etc). I'm thinking that's going to be more dependent on individual labs and how comfortable they would be in allowing me to pursue independent projects, but ideally, I'd like to get into a lab that produces a ton of papers each year and is willing to let me contribute/pursue independent research.

Also, are there any particular labs/PIs anyone on here would recommend? Since both radonc and clinical/translational research are completely new to me, I'm not sure who the "big shots" are, who tend to be great mentors, etc. My school doesn't have an affiliated teaching hospital and I haven't seen many radoncs, let alone academic radoncs, in my area unfortunately.

My plan is to contact various labs at the NIH main campus and also at powerhouse universities (Stanford, Hopkins, etc.) and hospitals (MD Anderson, etc.). So far, I've just been browsing various lab sites and trying to figure out which labs interest me. I would appreciate any advice you can throw my way, especially regarding which PIs I should approach. I understand that research is heavily emphasized in radonc, much more so than other specialties, so I'm hoping you guys have insights to offer on various labs. Thanks in advance.

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[Charles_Carmichael]

Any advice anyone? I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[radonc]

I searched around for threads that asked similar questions as the ones I have and while I found some explaining the various types of research you can do in radonc, etc, I didn't really find anything regarding my particular situation. I apologize if a similar thread was indeed posted and I just suck at searching.

I'm a senior in Molecular & Cellular Biology and I will be taking a year off between college and med school (ie. I'll be applying to med school this upcoming cycle). I've always been very interested in cancer and have developed an interest in radiation oncology a while ago. I've been doing neuroimmunology research (basic science lab) for 1.5 years now and while I've enjoyed it, I want to try my hand at either clinical or tranlational research during the year off.

How hard would it be for me to get into a clinical or translational radonc lab since I don't have any medical training? I'm very well versed in cancer cell biology, immunology/tumor immunology, & physiology (got an A+ in all those upper division courses). What else can I do to make myself an attractive candidate for clinical research labs? I'm considering teaching myself radiobiology since my school does not offer a course on it; would that be any beneficial or would I just be wasting my time? I'm also wondering how meaningful spending a year in a clinical/translational lab would be for me (ie. how many publications I can get, etc). I'm thinking that's going to be more dependent on individual labs and how comfortable they would be in allowing me to pursue independent projects, but ideally, I'd like to get into a lab that produces a ton of papers each year and is willing to let me contribute/pursue independent research.

Also, are there any particular labs/PIs anyone on here would recommend? Since both radonc and clinical/translational research are completely new to me, I'm not sure who the "big shots" are, who tend to be great mentors, etc. My school doesn't have an affiliated teaching hospital and I haven't seen many radoncs, let alone academic radoncs, in my area unfortunately.

My plan is to contact various labs at the NIH main campus and also at powerhouse universities (Stanford, Hopkins, etc.) and hospitals (MD Anderson, etc.). So far, I've just been browsing various lab sites and trying to figure out which labs interest me. I would appreciate any advice you can throw my way, especially regarding which PIs I should approach. I understand that research is heavily emphasized in radonc, much more so than other specialties, so I'm hoping you guys have insights to offer on various labs. Thanks in advance.

i think taking a year off between 3rd and 4th year of med school would be more helpful, in case you change your mind about the field you decide to go into.

otherwise, if you choose to take a year off before med school, i think you are on the right path. no need to learn radbio until you figure out what your research is...

 

[StanleyCup7]

Unless you are deadset on going to one of the absolute elite radiation oncology programs (MDACC, MSKCC, Harvard, etc.), I see no need to take a full year off to do research. That being said, if you did decide to do so, I agree with radonc that you should take the year off between 3rd year and 4th year.

My advice would be to attend a medical school with a good to great radiation oncology program and do research as an MS1 and MS2 (and the summer between MS1 and MS2). You certainly have enough time to do so as a pre-clinical student, you would get to know the program director (and chairman) and would show a prolonged commitment to the field. Best of luck.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

Thanks for the responses so far. While I'm pretty positive I'll be doing research during the summer between M1 and M2, I want to do research this coming year before med school. I mean, I didn't apply this past cycle and will be applying this coming cycle, so I will for sure have a year off in between. And I want to take full advantage of it by getting into a good radonc lab where I can get a publication or two by the end of the year.

I figured since most of you guys likely have radonc research, you'd have insights into the labs you worked in and what PIs to approach, etc. So, I would still really appreciate if you'd recommend certain PIs with whom you've had great experiences with, etc. I have a slightly more interest in CNS tumors and also, RIT, compared to other tumor sites, etc, but my goal is to get into any radonc clinical/translational lab.

From browsing around on this forum and with my friend, google, I've come across names like Peter Glazer, Dennis Hallahan, etc. When looking at their lab pages however, they seem to be more focused on bench research rather than clinical research. I'm considering maybe contacting a PD or something along those lines to see if I can get more info regarding radonc clinical research. Would that be a good idea or a mistake?

Please continue with the advice giving, especially regarding PIs who are good mentors, etc. It really helps a lot!

 

[ghgi8]

If I were in your position, I would look for something in Europe and explore the world during your weekends.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

If I were in your position, I would look for something in Europe and explore the world during your weekends.

Haha, I would enjoy that. But I need to be in the states for med school interviews during that year. I don't think I can afford to fly back-and-forth.

 

[Gfunk6]

When looking at their lab pages however, they seem to be more focused on bench research rather than clinical research. I'm considering maybe contacting a PD or something along those lines to see if I can get more info regarding radonc clinical research. Would that be a good idea or a mistake?

If you want help finding specific PI's then you need to give specific information. For instance you say you wanted to do translational research but then seem adverse to bench work.

So please provide the following:

1. What specific kind of research you want to do? You say "clinical," does that mean chart reviews? If so you certainly don't need to work in a high-powered lab.

2. What specific subsite? (I guess CNS, right? Or does it really matter?)

3. What location? (This is quite important)

As a newly minted graduate from college your position will likely be limited to a research technician (e.g. perhaps not as much independence as you would like). Also many PIs are reluctant to commit to someone for less than two years. Keep this in mind.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

If you want help finding specific PI's then you need to give specific information. For instance you say you wanted to do translational research but then seem adverse to bench work.

So please provide the following:

1. What specific kind of research you want to do? You say "clinical," does that mean chart reviews? If so you certainly don't need to work in a high-powered lab.

2. What specific subsite? (I guess CNS, right? Or does it really matter?)

3. What location? (This is quite important)

As a newly minted graduate from college your position will likely be limited to a research technician (e.g. perhaps not as much independence as you would like). Also many PIs are reluctant to commit to someone for less than two years. Keep this in mind.

My want to not do bench research doesn't really come from hating it. It's more that I realize that a significant portion of it won't see clinical application. That's one reason I'm interested in translational research, because it would focus on issues that can be clinically applicable on a faster time scale.

1. I'm definitely interested in chart reviews. I can't imagine there's too much else I can do since my understanding of longitudinal studies, etc, suggests that they take longer than a year to accomplish. I'm interested in doing anything else that I can accomplish during that year beyond just chart reviews. I also understand that it'll be harder to find a lab willing to take me on for only a year. I originally decided to take a year off after first looking at the NIH IRTA program (which is for a year, but you can extend it for one more) but since then, I've been looking at labs outside the IRTA program as well. And I've been becoming less interested in the IRTA program and more interested in labs outside the program.

2. I'm interested in CNS tumors, but I'm fine with any site. I'm also interested in radioimmunotherapy since I have a decent background in tumor immunology/immunotherapy and RIT sounds very interesting. But overall, I'd be happy at any radonc lab I think. I really love cancer (as weird as that sounds), without any particular favorites. So working in any radonc lab would be very interesting, in my opinion.

3. Location isn't very important to me beyond staying in the continental US. It's never played an important role for me in the past and I'm fine going to wherever I get a position. It'll be hard to get a position in the first place; I don't want to make it even harder by limiting it to specific locales.

 

[radonc]

i think you have to narrow down what you want to do and where you want to be.

every academic dept does retrospective studies.

rit is big at the ccf and a handful of other placed. cns is big at ccf, wisconsin, pitt, ucsf, and many more places.

if you are looking for sdn to tell you where to go, who you should contact, etc (ie hand it to you on a silver platter), you are better off sifting through a red journal from 2009 to see who is publishing and from where.

good luck.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

i think you have to narrow down what you want to do and where you want to be.

every academic dept does retrospective studies.

rit is big at the ccf and a handful of other placed. cns is big at ccf, wisconsin, pitt, ucsf, and many more places.

if you are looking for sdn to tell you where to go, who you should contact, etc (ie hand it to you on a silver platter), you are better off sifting through a red journal from 2009 to see who is publishing and from where.

good luck.

That is definitely not what I was looking for. I apologize if I came off that way. I'll be applying pretty broadly and have a general idea of what to do. I was just wondering if anyone would recommend a lab they worked in that they had a great experience with, that's all.

Anyways, thanks a lot for the advice so far guys. I really appreciate it.

 

[Werg]

I think with your background you could probably do radiobiology research. Basically you'd be working with cell cultures and the like. I would recommend reading Hall's Radiobiology for the Radiologist for an overview and going from there. Compared with clinical or radiation therapy research, I think radiobiology would give you the best chance to substantively contribute towards a publication(s).

 

[RxnMan]

I searched around for threads that asked similar questions as the ones I have and while I found some explaining the various types of research you can do in radonc, etc, I didn't really find anything regarding my particular situation. I apologize if a similar thread was indeed posted and I just suck at searching.

I'm a senior in Molecular & Cellular Biology and I will be taking a year off between college and med school (ie. I'll be applying to med school this upcoming cycle). I've always been very interested in cancer and have developed an interest in radiation oncology a while ago. I've been doing neuroimmunology research (basic science lab) for 1.5 years now and while I've enjoyed it, I want to try my hand at either clinical or tranlational research during the year off.

How hard would it be for me to get into a clinical or translational radonc lab since I don't have any medical training? I'm very well versed in cancer cell biology, immunology/tumor immunology, & physiology (got an A+ in all those upper division courses). What else can I do to make myself an attractive candidate for clinical research labs? I'm considering teaching myself radiobiology since my school does not offer a course on it; would that be any beneficial or would I just be wasting my time? I'm also wondering how meaningful spending a year in a clinical/translational lab would be for me (ie. how many publications I can get, etc). I'm thinking that's going to be more dependent on individual labs and how comfortable they would be in allowing me to pursue independent projects, but ideally, I'd like to get into a lab that produces a ton of papers each year and is willing to let me contribute/pursue independent research.

Also, are there any particular labs/PIs anyone on here would recommend? Since both radonc and clinical/translational research are completely new to me, I'm not sure who the "big shots" are, who tend to be great mentors, etc. My school doesn't have an affiliated teaching hospital and I haven't seen many radoncs, let alone academic radoncs, in my area unfortunately.

My plan is to contact various labs at the NIH main campus and also at powerhouse universities (Stanford, Hopkins, etc.) and hospitals (MD Anderson, etc.). So far, I've just been browsing various lab sites and trying to figure out which labs interest me. I would appreciate any advice you can throw my way, especially regarding which PIs I should approach. I understand that research is heavily emphasized in radonc, much more so than other specialties, so I'm hoping you guys have insights to offer on various labs. Thanks in advance.

I'm not in Rad Onc, but I've done a little research in my time, and there's some general advice I can give you.

One, your tastes in specialties, assuming you get into med school, will likely change. While it's nice if everything lines up, you can do Rad Onc research and match to IM no problem. Don't stress about it being one field or another.

Two, I'd just apply to med school now, assuming you have MCAT and pre-reqs all taken care of. Taking a year off now is less useful than doing one of the year-out programs like NIH-CRTP, HHMI, or DD. You're probably not going to boost your CV noticably as a pre-med->med student, but you can be more productive as a year-out med student, which will be a proportionally larger boost when applying to residency. You will also know your interests in medicine better by then.

As is, you don't have much to offer a PI, despite your degree and grades. You likely won't be given much in the way of independent research. As a med student, even a MS1, a PI (esp one with a MD) will be much more interested in you and will be willing to give you more opportunities in the form of more and better projects, more responsibility, and the chance to publish.

Three, assuming you're intent on taking the year off before med school, I'd drop the Rad Onc requirement (for right now), only because it's a smaller field and it'll limit you in finding good opportunities close to home. Ask faculty at your local universities - ask for PIs who have a good history of working with students, a history of PhD students who graduate in a reasonable time, and have good funding. From that list, start to contact folks, meet them. From that interaction, narrow your list by who you think you can work with. Who you think will be a positive role model and will educate you.

Four, I'd say it's not worth the investment of moving cross country unless you're in some pretty prestigious program. I'd look at NIH IRTA positions. Google "post-graduate research positions". Take a look at the Research FAQ (link in my sig), as I think there's links to opportunities for college grads there.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

I'm not in Rad Onc, but I've done a little research in my time, and there's some general advice I can give you.

One, your tastes in specialties, assuming you get into med school, will likely change. While it's nice if everything lines up, you can do Rad Onc research and match to IM no problem. Don't stress about it being one field or another.

Two, I'd just apply to med school now, assuming you have MCAT and pre-reqs all taken care of. Taking a year off now is less useful than doing one of the year-out programs like NIH-CRTP, HHMI, or DD. You're probably not going to boost your CV noticably as a pre-med->med student, but you can be more productive as a year-out med student, which will be a proportionally larger boost when applying to residency. You will also know your interests in medicine better by then.

As is, you don't have much to offer a PI, despite your degree and grades. You likely won't be given much in the way of independent research. As a med student, even a MS1, a PI (esp one with a MD) will be much more interested in you and will be willing to give you more opportunities in the form of more and better projects, more responsibility, and the chance to publish.

Three, assuming you're intent on taking the year off before med school, I'd drop the Rad Onc requirement (for right now), only because it's a smaller field and it'll limit you in finding good opportunities close to home. Ask faculty at your local universities - ask for PIs who have a good history of working with students, a history of PhD students who graduate in a reasonable time, and have good funding. From that list, start to contact folks, meet them. From that interaction, narrow your list by who you think you can work with. Who you think will be a positive role model and will educate you.

Four, I'd say it's not worth the investment of moving cross country unless you're in some pretty prestigious program. I'd look at NIH IRTA positions. Google "post-graduate research positions". Take a look at the Research FAQ (link in my sig), as I think there's links to opportunities for college grads there.

Hey Rxnman, thanks for the great advice. I forgot to mention in my first post but I am primarily applying for NIH IRTA positions; I've looked pretty extensively into various postbac research positions and decided on the IRTA a while back; I'm finishing up my application currently and am just waiting for my letter writers to finish my LoRs before I start contacting PIs. I was also thinking of applying to some labs outside the IRTA program and that's the reason I made this thread. The Research forums and the FAQs there have been immensely helpful when I was looking into postbac research programs and the threads on the IRTA program were very influential in my decision to apply to that program.

Regarding your statement that my tastes in specialties will likely change during the course of med school, I'm definitely aware of that and have been considering doing some research not radonc related but still in cancer (ie. tumor immunology or immunotherapy, etc). My current plan is to apply to the NIH IRTA program and contact PIs in several different branches of the NCI (including the radonc and radbio branches). If I get something in radonc or radbio, that's great, but if I get something in one of the other branches, that's also fine. Like I said earlier, I'm really interested in cancer; I just like the idea of radiotherapy better than chemotherapy, hence my interest in this field (plus there are cool toys to play with!).

I can't apply to med school right now since this is my senior year and I had already decided to take a year off. I'm already done with the MCAT and everything else. The year off is just to pursue more research and just have some time off between college and med school to relax a little bit. These last two years of undergrad have been pretty stressful and I think that year off to focus only on research without worrying about classes will be a nice break, if that makes any sense.

Thank you for the advice though. I really appreciate it!

 

[Rad0nc10]

I had responded to this when you first posted, lead off w a snide but loving comment about cal mcb; the post got deleted accidentally so ill summarize. First, you need to learn a technique that works for you to search for such things; it is important. Next, I would say you should get into a basic research lab. It teaches you to think like a scientist. You can start by looking up the HHMI faculty at Cal (I didnt even know what HHMI was as an undergrad!). You should meet w those faculty regardless, they know how to set you on the right track. Finding a young PI would be your best bet, one that will support you to go to conferences to get excited about science and let you publish. You dont have to join a radiation affiliated lab; just learn to design studies and ask the right questions. You can reserach again during med school (first yr, summers, second yr, or take a yr off). At that point you can be more radiation focused, if that is still your interest, and can do clinical research (though I would still advocate for basic or translational basic).

 

[Labslave]

One thing to keep in mind about the NIH is that although much of what is done is basic science, almost all of it will be "translational." I spent a year at the NIH in Bethesda as a post-bac, and even if you're on a more basic science-esque project, it's still going to be "translational" at heart. Also, given their resources with conferences, lectures, the clinical center, etc., you're going to see the clinical application of your research pretty regularly. You'll certainly learn a ton about the particular disease process you're studying, etc.

Although participating in clinical research may be your ideal goal, I too would advise you to still consider doing more basic science research. As others have said, what you do this year isn't likely to matter come time for you to apply to residency. Your interests could (and most likely will) change.

Most importantly: You should be looking to get into a good lab that will let you be flexible with your vacation time (so that you can interview - I had a lab that wasn't flexible at all...I regret it to this day because it became a huge issue when I went on 12 interviews and they didn't give me a single day off for the rest of the year and made my life a living hell). Many labs at the NIH are simply brutal environments to work in, but there are also a good number that are chill. Given the fact that you're going to be applying to med school, you don't need to be worried about how productive you are during this year because you most likely won't have anything published, and like others have said, nobody is likely to care too much about whether or not you had 2 or 10 publications before you were actually in med school. I would honestly advise you to choose a chill lab where you can have fun and get your name on a few papers...one that will also allow you to go interview for med school and not give you **** about it.

Good luck!

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

Hey guys, thought I'd update you all in case anyone was interested. I couldn't get into the NIH IRTA fellowship because the several labs I talked with wanted me to stay for 2 years rather than one.

I ended up accepting a research position in the south where the lab is doing stuff regarding radiosensitization of glioblastomas, DNA damage response stuff, and some space radiation stuff (which apparently has some overlap with radonc). The PI is a really cool guy and his thinking is completely in line with what I want (especially regarding getting published). Anyways, I'm absolutely ecstatic about working there and I actually have a reason to be reading the Hall text now!

So, thank you all for the advice/insight you've provided. I really appreciate it.

 

[CyberKnife19]

Disclaimer: I didn't take the time to read through the entire thread.

For those of you who want to go into RadOnc in the future, it is not necessary to take a year off to do research. Ideally, you would now that you want to go into RadOnc is a first year med student. If this was the case, you could begin a couple projects in the summer after your MS1 year and continue working on them throughout your MS2 and MS3 years.

However, ff you decide on RadOnc later, such as an MS3, I would recommend that you take a year off between MS3 and MS4 years. That way, you KNOW that you want to do RadOnc (and so it will be a good use of your time) and the research that you have done will be great fodder ofr discussion on the interview trail.

Best of luck to all who apply in the future and congratulations on deciding to enter the best field in all of medicine.

 

[FutureOncDoc]

Sorry if this was already answered, but I didn't do much research during undergrad is that going to hurt my chances of doing any research between M1 and M2 if I get into medical school? I wasn't sure if I was really interested in research in undergrad but I am growing more interested in it. I graduated from undergrad May 2009. I had a gap year off this year and I attending a SMP this fall. I am trying to decide if I should apply to medical school this summer (which was my original plan) and do the SMP in one year with a library thesis or if I should wait and apply to medical school next summer and do the SMP in two years with a laboratory thesis. I would prefer to apply this summer but if not having research is going to hurt me down the road then I will wait.

 

[thesauce]

Sorry if this was already answered, but I didn't do much research during undergrad is that going to hurt my chances of doing any research between M1 and M2 if I get into medical school? I wasn't sure if I was really interested in research in undergrad but I am growing more interested in it. I graduated from undergrad May 2009. I had a gap year off this year and I attending a SMP this fall. I am trying to decide if I should apply to medical school this summer (which was my original plan) and do the SMP in one year with a library thesis or if I should wait and apply to medical school next summer and do the SMP in two years with a laboratory thesis. I would prefer to apply this summer but if not having research is going to hurt me down the road then I will wait.

No.

I recommend you apply now and get the ball rolling. If you want to dive further into research, take a year off DURING medical school (Howard Hughes, Doris Duke, CRTP, etc.), which will be far more meaningful in the eyes of residency PDs.