Wreckless MD School Expansion

[AlteredScale]

Explain please!

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[kenjixshadow]

Explain please!

 

[IslandStyle808]

This university has a pharmacy school, first graduated class in 2012, and they still can't get federal aids for their students.

What I am describing is the norm. There is always an element of risk attending an new school, but the vast majority (well medical schools at least) are able to get federal loans once the first class has graduated.

EDIT

 

[kenjixshadow]

What I am describing is the norm. There is always an element of risk attending an new school, but the vast majority are able to get federal loans once the first class has graduated.

I understand. Their pharmacy school have yet to get fed loans (according to SDN users). I wouldn't have hopes up for their med students. This school is doing some shady business and ppl will still choose it over established DO schools just for 2 letters.

 

[ERK123]

So no fed loans, forget about COL in northen California, how are they expecting students to pay for tuition? Private loans? Oh hell no

Well living in Elk Grove is not going to be very expensive. My parents are friends with a residency director in the area and I am super curious to hear her perspective on this school. I would not be so fast to think this school will reach the same status as low tier MD's in terms of respect. This is the first for-profit MD school since before WWII (don't quote me on this) so it is hard to predict the fate of this school. I do think this school will rise above Touro in terms of admissions stats quite quickly, however. This is just per speculation on my part.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I understand. Their pharmacy school have yet to get fed loans (according to SDN users). I wouldn't have hopes up for their med students. This school is doing some shady business and ppl will still choose it over established DO schools just for 2 letters.

Well, that is worrisome.

 

[kenjixshadow]

This is the first for-profit MD school since before WWII (don't quote me on this)

Quoted

So, the rumor is that they will expand 60 seats to 265 seats in the next 2 years. Even if they have enough rotation spots for all 265 students (which I doubt), they will be rotating at non-GME hospitals/clinics -> students complain to LCME -> LCME drops a hammer on them -> they will be the first school to lose accreditation. This will be interesting.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Quoted

So, the rumor is that they will expand 60 seats to 265 seats in the next 2 years. Even if they have enough rotation spots for all 265 students (which I doubt), they will be rotating at non-GME hospitals/clinics -> students complain to LCME -> LCME drops a hammer on them -> they will be the first school to lose accreditation. This will be interesting.

Actually it would be interesting to see how the LCME handles that scenario. Most MD schools that I have read about had slow expansion rates with not that many seats being added, so I am assume this has some to do with the LCME. Kind of curious as to whether they would even entertain the idea of this school doing it so fast or even at all.

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

Well at least nobody is speculating anything. For a minute there I thought this thread would be a circlejerk of rumor spreading, but I agree, this school definitely will lose accreditation.

 

[user3]

I see potential for some interesting Cal Northstate MD school vs DO school threads in the future

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

I see potential for some interesting Cal Northstate MD vs DO school threads in the future

I predict a MeatTornado spinning all over every one of those threads

 

[acapnial]

Quoted

So, the rumor is that they will expand 60 seats to 265 seats in the next 2 years. Even if they have enough rotation spots for all 265 students (which I doubt), they will be rotating at non-GME hospitals/clinics -> students complain to LCME -> LCME drops a hammer on them -> they will be the first school to lose accreditation. This will be interesting.

1) The LCME enforces that there is not only enough clinical spots for medical students, but they oversee the quality of them. It wouldn't be exclusively at a bunch of crummy little clinics
2) The LCME keeps track of schools meeting institutional standards by itself. It's not a giant medical student complaint service.
3) I don't suppose you think there's any chance that 265 is the number of students attending the school for all four years? Not each individual year?

 

[DocVapor]

Explain please!

Just the thought of private loans for medical school is... icky.

 

[bleuler72]

Their website actually does name names as far as affiliated hospitals where students will presumably be rotating. Which is more than some brand-new DO schools can say. How it all pans out when they actually have 3rd years remains to be seen, of course.

Name the "other new DO schools" who lack a rotation network? My point, is MD school bias. Nobody seems to have a problem with an MD for profit school, which -by the way, looks absolutely no different than any of the newer DO schools. The hospital systems listed also have affiliations with Touro - the local DO school.

I hope the school works out. We are desperate for new doc's -MD or DO. After ACA, we've been flooded with patients.

 

[bleuler72]

The school maybe community focused but its still an LCME program, and will quickly become very competitive based on its location alone. That being said being a graduate of an LCME school opens up more doors than being a graduate of a DO program, just about everyone who is a premed or medical student already knows this anyway, so by that reasoning I believe this school will be more competitive and difficult to gain admission than any DO program.

Why? I can speak personally, from experience, that your statement is incorrect, esp given residencies will merge by 2020. I understand the reason you made the statement, but there is no logic to it. In a profession that prides itself on using logic, there is a deficit of it regarding the DO/MD BS.

 

[itsogre]

Why? I can speak personally, from experience, that your statement is incorrect, esp given residencies will merge by 2020. I understand the reason you made the statement, but there is no logic to it. In a profession that prides itself on using logic, there is a deficit of it regarding the DO/MD BS.

I don't want this to happen, that Northstate becomes more competitive than any DO school, but it will happen, given its location in California (like if you have parents pressuring you into medicine, and you happen to get into Western and Northstate, no way will your status-conscious mom and dad will let you to chose DO over MD). Northstate is an LCME program - that alone will give its grads an advantage. If you look at a community-based school like TCMC (which had issues with accreditation), their graduates still do very well despite the school's early problems.

 

[jaguar33]

Dont worry about getting private loans yall, I'm sure one of the medical school investors will find it in their hearts to loan the $36,000,000 needed before the first class graduates. Assuming a 60k/yr COA that is

 

[W19]

Well living in Elk Grove is not going to be very expensive. My parents are friends with a residency director in the area and I am super curious to hear her perspective on this school. I would not be so fast to think this school will reach the same status as low tier MD's in terms of respect. This is the first for-profit MD school since before WWII (don't quote me on this) so it is hard to predict the fate of this school. I do think this school will rise above Touro in terms of admissions stats quite quickly, however. This is just per speculation on my part.

Their first class will surpass Touro admission stats...

 

[samac]

Their first class will surpass Touro admission stats...

This class? I don't think so. I think it'll be Touro rejects.

 

[Buzzlightyear33]

Dont worry about getting private loans yall, I'm sure one of the medical school investors will find it in their hearts to loan the $36,000,000 needed before the first class graduates. Assuming a 60k/yr COA that is

That might happen lol. UCLA has David Geffen and Mt. Sinai has Carl Icahn. Even the new DO school in NM was able to get a billionaire on board. It seems the ultra-wealthy will do a lot in the name of altruism and philanthropy (especially if they provide a gift that keeps giving...). There are a lot of wealthy businessmen in NorCal who could be eager to put their name on a medical school and $36 million isn't a lot when your net worth is > 10^9.

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

This class? I don't think so. I think it'll be Touro rejects.

Nope. Pre meds will still choose MD > DO.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

This class? I don't think so. I think it'll be Touro rejects.

Yeah, OK.

15 years ago when top DO schools like DMU, KCU, and CCOM were at ~25 MCAT WesternU had an average of 3.6/28

For a DO school located in Pomona that's pretty good.

Put a MD school in an area that doesn't suck and I'm pretty sure it will surpass TouroCA pretty quickly.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Yeah, OK.

15 years ago when top DO schools like DMU, KCU, and CCOM were at ~25 MCAT WesternU had an average of 3.6/28

For a DO school located in Pomona that's pretty good.

Put a MD school in an area that doesn't suck and I'm pretty sure it will surpass TouroCA pretty quickly.

This.

People are underestimating the glamor of attending an MD school in CA. Besides, there'll be enough UC MD rejects to fill their first class with high stats applicants.

 

[samac]

Yeah, OK.

15 years ago when top DO schools like DMU, KCU, and CCOM were at ~25 MCAT WesternU had an average of 3.6/28

For a DO school located in Pomona that's pretty good.

Put a MD school in an area that doesn't suck and I'm pretty sure it will surpass TouroCA pretty quickly.

I'm not talking 2016 class, I'm talking the class starting in September. I do believe it'll surpass most DO schools quickly, but this first class will be Touro rejects.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

This class? I don't think so. I think it'll be Touro rejects.

This is not only a thing about MD vs DO. It's also the fact that Touro is basically a toilet with terrible rotations which only gets its stats because people in the area are desperate to stay in NorCal. People will choose the MD school. Besides, elk groove is a better area.

 

[jw3600]

I'm not talking 2016 class, I'm talking the class starting in September. I do believe it'll surpass most DO schools quickly, but this first class will be Touro rejects.

Would you like to bet?

 

[chizledfrmstone]

You have called Touro a toilet and even your own school a "dump". Too bad for Cali's DO options...

You always have something negative to say.

The location might not be the best and the facilities are a bit wack but the students are pretty bright.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

You always have something negative to say.

The location might not be the best and the facilities are a bit wack but the students are pretty bright.

I don't blame User3. The reality is that both schools are milking their geography to their benefit rather than making the schools have a reputation built on their actions. It's just like living in New York City. Look at the homes. Ugly as can be, but their price is sky high. Go anywhere else with the same money and you can get a beautiful home.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I don't blame User3. The reality is that both schools are milking their geography to their benefit rather than making the schools have a reputation built on their actions. It's just like living in New York City. Look at the homes. Ugly as can be, but their price is sky high. Go anywhere else with the same money and you can get a beautiful home.

Well, there are exceptions to this rule, but a mega city is still a mega city. It is one of the largest reasons why doctors are maldistributed across the country.

 

[diesel2101]

I don't blame User3. The reality is that both schools are milking their geography to their benefit rather than making the schools have a reputation built on their actions. It's just like living in New York City. Look at the homes. Ugly as can be, but their price is sky high. Go anywhere else with the same money and you can get a beautiful home.

With no geographical connection to the world's financial hub.

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

I'm not talking 2016 class, I'm talking the class starting in September. I do believe it'll surpass most DO schools quickly, but this first class will be Touro rejects.

Do Touro rejects exist?

 

[NurWollen]

With no geographical connection to the world's financial hub.

Why does a physician need a geographical connection to the world's financial hub?

 

[NurWollen]

I kind of think it's silly that we're arguing over whether Cal Northstate's entering class stats will be higher or lower than various DO school stats. None of us knows for sure because this situation is unprecedented. For-profit MD school in a highly desirable location, starting it's application cycle independently of AMCAS only 2 or 3 months before classes begin. It's anyone's guess. It will be interesting to see, but there's no point in slamming each other or calling each other idiots over it.

 

[67552931811]

Nvm

 

[Amazonian Lily]

I'm not talking 2016 class, I'm talking the class starting in September. I do believe it'll surpass most DO schools quickly, but this first class will be Touro rejects.

What makes you think they will settle for DO school rejects when they can pick from the many students who had stats competitive for the california MD schools but didn't get in for whatever reason?

 

[samac]

What makes you think they will settle for DO school rejects when they can pick from the many students who had stats competitive for the california MD schools but didn't get in for whatever reason?

I'm thinking that's the people who will apply this session to start in just 3 months. I could be wrong, and I really don't care to argue the point just my thoughts.

 

[jw3600]

If you're going to go to a school with as little reputation as possible to stay in CA, might as well make sure it's an MD.

 

[diesel2101]

Why does a physician need a geographical connection to the world's financial hub?

Not always important for a physician unless they enjoy the social atmosphere that goes along with a larger city. However, there are far more opportunities in larger cities for my SO, so I personally wouldn't want to live in rural America.

 

[Siggy]

Why does a physician need a geographical connection to the world's financial hub?

Concierge medicine. $$++

 

[jw3600]

Concierge medicine. $$++

I'm fairly certain legislation will change and tie licensure to Medicaid/Medicare thus eliminating the entire concierge world. It is unconstitutional and will go to Supreme Court but I bet it will eventually happen. Too much power behind the public majority.

 

[Siggy]

I'm fairly certain legislation will change and tie licensure to Medicaid/Medicare thus eliminating the entire concierge world. It is unconstitutional and will go to Supreme Court but I bet it will eventually happen. Too much power behind the public majority.

Outside of EMTALA, nothing currently exists to force physicians to take any specific patient. Just because a physician "accepts" Medicare/cade doesn't mean he has to actually take on those patients.

Also I see it more being a requirment of DEA licenses (which is already at the Federal level) instead of the actual medical license (which is at a State level).

 

[jw3600]

Outside of EMTALA, nothing currently exists to force physicians to take any specific patient. Just because a physician "accepts" Medicare/cade doesn't mean he has to actually take on those patients.

Also I see it more being a requirment of DEA licenses (which is already at the Federal level) instead of the actual medical license (which is at a State level).

Hard to know. It really could go any way.

 

[Siggy]

Hard to know. It really could go any way.

I can pretty much guarantee that the Federal Government cannot use licensure as their stick because they don't handle licensure. That's how the government works under the Constitution. It's the same reason why there isn't a Federal law mandating a drinking age of 21 (highway funding is the stick to get the state legislatures to do that) and why the Federal ban on guns in schools was struck down (see US v Lopez (1995)).

 

[serimeri]

As stupid as it is, I know of some people at Western who turned down MD schools in the midwest/east coast just to stay in California. People are so desparate to stay in California, no matter what part it is.

I personally am happy with AZ and living in the SouthWest!

I couldn't fathom driving on the 405 when i came for my cali interivews

 

[tanishalanko]

Anyone with less than a 24 get an ii?

 

[67552931811]

 

[ERK123]

As stupid as it is, I know of some people at Western who turned down MD schools in the midwest/east coast just to stay in California. People are so desparate to stay in California, no matter what part it is.

I personally am happy with AZ and living in the SouthWest!

I couldn't fathom driving on the 405 when i came for my cali interivews

When I shadowed for a day at Touro, most of the student I spoke with had turned down at least 1 MD acceptance in the midwest/east coast. Some said they did this because they wanted to stay in California while others just ultimately decided that they would rather attend a DO school than an MD.

 

[ERK123]

Do Touro rejects exist?

Well over 90% of people who apply to Touro become "Touro rejects"...

 

[user3]

When I shadowed for a day at Touro, most of the student I spoke with had turned down at least 1 MD acceptance in the midwest/east coast. Some said they did this because they wanted to stay in California while others just ultimately decided that they would rather attend a DO school than an MD.

it would be interesting to see a school-by-school survey of what percent of entering students had MD acceptances.

 

[NurWollen]

it would be interesting to see a school-by-school survey of what percent of entering students had MD acceptances.

I'm sure the AOA would just love to fund that study.