Wreckless MD School Expansion

[NurWollen]

Man, why won't the LCME tighten up its' accreditation standards?

http://medicine.cnsu.edu/

Turns out they maybe the MDs speak Dollarese, too.

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[user3]

at least its only 60 students.

FWIW, this school will no doubt be extremely competitive given it'll be an MD program in Cali.

 

[kenjixshadow]

I wouldn't say this is wreckless. This school is accredited by the LCME, which is arguably doing a better job than the AOA. For-profit-status isn't bad as it sounds as long their students get adequate education for residency.

 

[NurWollen]

at least its only 60 students.

FWIW, this school will no doubt be extremely competitive given it'll be an MD program in Cali.

Agreed. Apparently the want to fill their class for this fall's entering class. I predict they will have zero difficulty doing so. There are thousands of as of yet-unsuccessful applicants who had already resigned themselves to re-applying next year who will send in an application.

 

[22031 Alum]

I wouldn't say this is wreckless.

Neither would I. You might say it's reckless, though...

 

[Bea5T]

not gonna lie, wish this school existed last application cycle

 

[NurWollen]

I wouldn't say this is wreckless. This school is accredited by the LCME, which is arguably doing a better job than the AOA. For-profit-status isn't bad as it sounds as long their students get adequate education for residency.

I was kind of being a little tongue-in-cheek. I mean, I do think the forces at play here are they same ones driving DO expansion, but obviously there are some differences like smaller class size, etc. The LCME is keeping a tighter leash, it seems. But no that tight.

It'll be interesting to see how this new school's rotations pan out. UC Davis will obviously keep it's hospital system mostly under its own control, but that's the only existing medical school in the area.

Also, there looks to be another private MD school in the works, this one non-profit. It's being driven, at least in part, by Arrowhead Regional Medical Center. Which sucks big time for WesternU and DO's in general. Apparently ARMC was approached by a Caribbean med school and that's what got this going. Why do DO schools sit by and let this stuff happen? Read more here: http://www.sbsun.com/social-affairs/20140414/new-medical-school-planned-for-san-bernardino-county

As an aside, it's so obviously possible to make sick amounts of profit with a non-profit school (see: AZCOM) that I wonder why anyone bothers with the negative stigma that comes with for-profit education.

 

[Bea5T]

I was kind of being a little tongue-in-cheek. I mean, I do think the forces at play here are they same ones driving DO expansion, but obviously there are some differences like smaller class size, etc. The LCME is keeping a tighter leash, it seems. But no that tight.

It'll be interesting to see how this new school's rotations pan out. UC Davis will obviously keep it's hospital system mostly under its own control, but that's the only existing medical school in the area.

Also, there looks to be another private MD school in the works, this one non-profit. It's being driven, at least in part, by Arrowhead Regional Medical Center. Which sucks big time for WesternU and DO's in general. Apparently ARMC was approached by a Caribbean med school and that's what got this going. Why do DO schools sit by and let this stuff happen? Read more here: http://www.sbsun.com/social-affairs/20140414/new-medical-school-planned-for-san-bernardino-county

As an aside, it's so obviously possible to make sick amounts of profit with a non-profit school (see: AZCOM) that I wonder why anyone bothers with the negative stigma that comes with for-profit education.

"As head of the CMA, GnanaDev made frequent trips to Washington during the formative period of the Affordable Care Act. Although the Inland Empire has three medical schools, the region faced a shortage of 3,000 physicians before national healthcare reform became fully implemented this year."

yes because more medical schools = more doctors in the area? I'm sure everyone is going to stick to living in the beautiful inland empire after graduating

 

[Siggy]

"As head of the CMA, GnanaDev made frequent trips to Washington during the formative period of the Affordable Care Act. Although the Inland Empire has three medical schools, the region faced a shortage of 3,000 physicians before national healthcare reform became fully implemented this year."

yes because more medical schools = more doctors in the area? I'm sure everyone is going to stick to living in the beautiful inland empire after graduating

I'm totally going to miss my meth contact high now that I'm leaving the Inland Methpire.

 

[Siggy]

I was kind of being a little tongue-in-cheek. I mean, I do think the forces at play here are they same ones driving DO expansion, but obviously there are some differences like smaller class size, etc. The LCME is keeping a tighter leash, it seems. But no that tight.

You mean the school that was announced last year and that no one has heard anything about since?

 

[NontradCA]

Neither would I. You might say it's reckless, though...

rekt

 

[Goro]

My suspicion is that they'll be taking Touro-CA's rejects.

Man, why won't the LCME tighten up its' accreditation standards?

http://medicine.cnsu.edu/

Turns out they maybe the MDs speak Dollarese, too.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

My suspicion is that they'll be taking Touro-CA's rejects.

My suspicion is 100% the opposite. Touro-CA will be picking up their rejects.

 

[samac]

Whoa whoa, it says on their website they will be accepting applications for Fall 2015, but the link isn't up yet so to check back daily?!
It's JUNE and the application isn't even up.
That's going to go well.
Honestly though if I wasn't accepted I'd jump all over that (though I think my premed advisor would kill me), their admission requirements aren't stringent, 2.8 GPA with a 24 MCAT.

 

[Goro]

Not with these minimums. That's a LizzyM score of 52! LUCOM territory.

2.8 GPA with a 24 MCAT.

My suspicion is 100% the opposite. Touro-CA will be picking up their rejects.

 

[Seth Joo]

Man, why won't the LCME tighten up its' accreditation standards?

http://medicine.cnsu.edu/

Turns out they maybe the MDs speak Dollarese, too.

If MD schools open up at a faster rate, the effect will be the same as the expansion of DO schools on foreign medical schools. Not good.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Not with these minimums. That's a LizzyM score of 52! LUCOM territory.

2.8 GPA with a 24 MCAT.

Minimums don't mean anything. It's an MD school in California. Don't underestimate it.

 

[bleuler72]

I have to laugh a bit reading this thread. When the DO community Ok'ed a for profit school there was a huge uproar on SDN. Hardly a squeak with this.
Their new campus? Much less impressive than the Colorado DO school. Im also unaware exactly which hospitals their med students will use, but hey, they probably wont suck as much as any DO school (facetious eye rolling...)

 

[NurWollen]

I have to laugh a bit reading this thread. When the DO community Ok'ed a for profit school there was a huge uproar on SDN. Hardly a squeak with this.
Their new campus? Much less impressive than the Colorado DO school. Im also unaware exactly which hospitals their med students will use, but hey, they probably wont suck as much as any DO school (facetious eye rolling...)

Their website actually does name names as far as affiliated hospitals where students will presumably be rotating. Which is more than some brand-new DO schools can say. How it all pans out when they actually have 3rd years remains to be seen, of course.

 

[hallowmann]

Minimums don't mean anything. It's an MD school in California. Don't underestimate it.

I could see it being a problem for the 2019 class (which they are trying to fill in what I assume will be 2 months or so). Beyond that, it will absolutely be competitive, because as you said, it's an MD school in CA.

If I were applying now, I'd apply there. I'd be in driving distance from a ton of very close friends and a 1.5 hr plane ride from a big subset of my family. I'd struggle through the ridiculousness of a new med school on location alone, but wait... how much does it cost again?

 

[Seth Joo]

I have to laugh a bit reading this thread. When the DO community Ok'ed a for profit school there was a huge uproar on SDN. Hardly a squeak with this.
Their new campus? Much less impressive than the Colorado DO school. Im also unaware exactly which hospitals their med students will use, but hey, they probably wont suck as much as any DO school (facetious eye rolling...)

There was an uproar because DO schools used to be on the fringes in the medical education system, today nearly 20 percent of medical students are in a DO program. That being said many people were worried about the progress that DOs have made being undone by the sudden opening of a for profit school.

In reality there is not much difference between a non-profit and a for profit organization, a non profit cannot issue dividends and stock to shareholders, that is the key difference. Many non-profits make a lot of money and are quite profitable in reality, they just cannot redistribute those profits as dividends to shareholders as I said.

Yale and Harvard are non profits but in reality are money making machines and have very deep pockets.

 

[Mad Jack]

Agreed. Apparently the want to fill their class for this fall's entering class. I predict they will have zero difficulty doing so. There are thousands of as of yet-unsuccessful applicants who had already resigned themselves to re-applying next year who will send in an application.

Lol, I should send in an application for the lulz

 

[Seth Joo]

I could see it being a problem for the 2019 class (which they are trying to fill in what I assume will be 2 months or so). Beyond that, it will absolutely be competitive, because as you said, it's an MD school in CA.

If I were applying now, I'd apply there. I'd be in driving distance from a ton of very close friends and a 1.5 hr plane ride from a big subset of my family. I'd struggle through the ridiculousness of a new med school on location alone, but wait... how much does it cost again?

Given that its an MD school and its in a competitive state, it will be more competitive than any DO school and will attract far more applicants. Last I heard even a DO school was trying to open an MD school. And Michigan State has both a DO and an MD school which makes you wonder.

 

[AlteredScale]

Given that its an MD school and its in a competitive state, it will be more competitive than any DO school and will attract far more applicants. Last I heard even a DO school was trying to open an MD school. And Michigan State has both a DO and an MD school which makes you wonder.

Nova is building and MD school.

 

[Seth Joo]

Nova is building and MD school.

More bad news if you ask me. DO schools were moving forward into becoming part of mainstream medical education, I think with that kind of expansion it will put us back to a starting point yet again.

 

[AlteredScale]

More bad news if you ask me. DO schools were moving forward into becoming part of mainstream medical education, I think with that kind of expansion it will put us back to a starting point yet again.

I agree. But what I am wondering is if Nova admin just did not want to invest more into their DO school or if they proposed the idea to invest more into the school but the DO admin at NSU stubbornly said no. It will be infuriating if the story was the latter and they turned down an investiture in the side of biomedical research.

 

[kenjixshadow]

Wait a minute,

"CNUCOM is in the process of applying to the U.S. Department of Education for participation in Federal Student Aid programs. Until this process is complete and the U.S. Department of Education indicates CNUCOM to be eligible to participate in Federal Student Aid programs, we will be unable to provide students with Federal Student Aid, which includes Federal Direct Loans, Federal Graduate PLUS Loans, Federal Work-Study benefits, etc."

So no fed loans, forget about COL in northen California, how are they expecting students to pay for tuition? Private loans? Oh hell no

 

[Iridescent]

Why even have two separate degrees? In reality, OMM should be an elective anyway.

I've read the DOs. Still don't understand.

 

[Seth Joo]

I agree. But what I am wondering is if Nova admin just did not want to invest more into their DO school or if they proposed the idea to invest more into the school but the DO admin at NSU stubbornly said no. It will be infuriating if the story was the latter and they turned down an investiture in the side of biomedical research.

Universities operate just like private for profit corporations, so they usually bank on public perception, the public perception today despite the forward progress of the DO profession is that an MD is a Physician. So I think the powers that be decided that an MD school would make NSU more money than them investing more money in their DO program that has existed for nearly 40 years.

 

[AlteredScale]

That's what I was leaning on as well. Probably also prestige too in the sense that they can also begin to establish themselves as a biomedical research institution as well.

It makes sense since they are a full fledged university with undergrad and graduate studies.

 

[Seth Joo]

That's what I was leaning on as well. Probably also prestige too in the sense that they can also begin to establish themselves as a biomedical research institution as well.

It makes sense since they are a full fledged university with undergrad and graduate studies.

An MD school will get NIH Dollars, and also many applicants, more so than a DO program. There are many Allopathic medical schools that operate hospitals and whole health care networks.

 

[AlteredScale]

An MD school will get NIH Dollars, and also many applicants, more so than a DO program. There are many Allopathic medical schools that operate hospitals and whole health care networks.

True. But I have a feeling this new MD school (Cal Northstate) will bring neither NIH funds nor newly minted teaching hospitals to the table. They have essentially routed their school in a similar light of many DO programs which is clinical rotations at community hospitals as supposed to academic hospitals.

 

[samac]

Wait a minute,

"CNUCOM is in the process of applying to the U.S. Department of Education for participation in Federal Student Aid programs. Until this process is complete and the U.S. Department of Education indicates CNUCOM to be eligible to participate in Federal Student Aid programs, we will be unable to provide students with Federal Student Aid, which includes Federal Direct Loans, Federal Graduate PLUS Loans, Federal Work-Study benefits, etc."

So no fed loans, forget about COL in northen California, how are they expecting students to pay for tuition? Private loans? Oh hell no

. . . Wow.
I just rooted through their website and they're like "here's a couple possible loans. . . And a cash repayment option!"
I take back that I would apply this cycle. I wouldn't want to go to a school the federal government doesn't recognize yet.

 

[Seth Joo]

True. But I have a feeling this new MD school (Cal Northstate) will bring neither NIH funds nor newly minted teaching hospitals to the table. They have essentially routed their school in a similar light of many DO programs which is clinical rotations at community hospitals as supposed to academic hospitals.

The school maybe community focused but its still an LCME program, and will quickly become very competitive based on its location alone. That being said being a graduate of an LCME school opens up more doors than being a graduate of a DO program, just about everyone who is a premed or medical student already knows this anyway, so by that reasoning I believe this school will be more competitive and difficult to gain admission than any DO program.

 

[AlteredScale]

The school maybe community focused but its still an LCME program, and will quickly become very competitive based on its location alone. That being said being a graduate of an LCME school opens up more doors than being a graduate of a DO program, just about everyone who is a premed or medical student already knows this anyway, so by that reasoning I believe this school will be more competitive and difficult to gain admission than any DO program.

No I agree the competitive nature of the admissions will be there for this program. It's inevitable due to it's location being in CA.

I have a harder time thinking graduates of this program will be landing Rad/Onc, ENT, IM at top tier programs in CA at Stanford/UCSD and will have a similar match to lower tier MD schools. They'll probably land into mid-tier ACGME programs much easier than DO grads however.

 

[Siggy]

. . . Wow.
I just rooted through their website and they're like "here's a couple possible loans. . . And a cash repayment option!"
I take back that I would apply this cycle. I wouldn't want to go to a school the federal government doesn't recognize yet.

You do realize that this is true for all new med schools ?

 

[IslandStyle808]

Wait a minute,

"CNUCOM is in the process of applying to the U.S. Department of Education for participation in Federal Student Aid programs. Until this process is complete and the U.S. Department of Education indicates CNUCOM to be eligible to participate in Federal Student Aid programs, we will be unable to provide students with Federal Student Aid, which includes Federal Direct Loans, Federal Graduate PLUS Loans, Federal Work-Study benefits, etc."

So no fed loans, forget about COL in northen California, how are they expecting students to pay for tuition? Private loans? Oh hell no

. . . Wow.
I just rooted through their website and they're like "here's a couple possible loans. . . And a cash repayment option!"
I take back that I would apply this cycle. I wouldn't want to go to a school the federal government doesn't recognize yet.

As the above poster pointed out. All new schools with no sister school or 'older' university umbrella have to go through this process until it get its first class graduated. RVU was a recent example of this.

Just like all new schools have provisional accreditation until it graduates its first class.

 

[kenjixshadow]

As the above poster pointed out. All new schools with no sister school or 'older' university umbrella have to go through this process until it get its first class graduated. RVU was a recent example of this.

Just like all new schools have provisional accreditation until it graduates its first class.

This university has a pharmacy school, first graduated class in 2012, and they still can't get federal aids for their students.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Can they take applications like that?

Lol, payment through Paypal? Wtf?

 

[Buzzlightyear33]

Have any medical schools lost provisional accreditation or is it a matter of waiting for the first class to graduate before they get full accreditation?

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

All these new schools love to promote their new facilities with their ultra modern look. I mean look at their front page. I think we all know that what makes a good medical school, is how good the rotations are. The first two years are so dependent on the student. Who cares about the nice seats and recliners in the study room

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

You do realize that this is true for all new med schools ?

It is, but TCMC for example almost lost their provisional accreditation and was put on probation for a similar deal, so I'd be weary.

 

[22031 Alum]

so I'd be weary.

Maybe you should also be wary.

Last time I promise. I'm just reading all the personal statements and it's bleeding into my forum life.

 

[AlteredScale]

Maybe you should also be wary.

Last time I promise. I'm just reading all the personal statements and it's bleeding into my forum life.

HAHAHAHAHA oh my god the sarcasm is on point.

 

[Bones 2020]

You do realize that this is true for all new med schools ?

So Burrell, which has provisional accreditation, does not have access to federal loans?

 

[AlteredScale]

So Burrell, which has provisional accreditation, does not have access to federal loans?

Correct.

 

[Bones 2020]

Correct.

Okay, now I have another question. Would the first matriculants have to use private loans for the first year, then federal for the last 3? How have students in the past worked with this?

 

[AlteredScale]

Okay, now I have another question. Would the first matriculants have to use private loans for the first year, then federal for the last 3? How have students in the past worked with this?

From what I recall. Until the school is granted full accreditation, they will not have access to federal aid and thus all students through that point will have to utilize private loans.

 

[Bones 2020]

From what I recall. Until the school is granted full accreditation, they will not have access to federal aid and thus all students through that point will have to utilize private loans.

And those are like what, 8% APR? They'd have to give me a free first year scholarship to get me to attend there.

 

[DocVapor]

From what I recall. Until the school is granted full accreditation, they will not have access to federal aid and thus all students through that point will have to utilize private loans.