Would you pay to get rid of mandatory attendance?

[thatguy23]

Whats up everyone. I'll be a OMS1 this upcoming summer. I know its been discussed ad nauseam (mandatory attendance vs optional) but I'm wondering if people at schools w/ mandatory attendance would pay (and how much) to have the option not to attend.

Long story short - is it that bad? lucky enough to have 2 acceptances (CUSOM & WVSOM). CUSOM is ( 10K / year cheaper) has mandatory attendance.

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[sunshinefl]

I don’t go to a mandatory school (though there are still things that must be attended). I thank the universe for that or I probably would have failed out long ago. I can’t learn in class, and I’m not a morning person. So if I went to a mandatory school I would be a depressed zombie medical school failure.

 

[djtallahassee]

I would pay 10k a year more not to have mandatory lectures. However there are many of other factors to remember too.

 

[jcve34]

I would’ve failed out of school if there was mandatory lecture

 

[Mad Jack]

I did, and have no regrets

 

[Hippocrates II]

Mandatory lecture is absolutely not worth 10k/year IMO.

That said, I go to a school that doesn't have mandatory lectures and I'm still stuck on campus almost every day. Between labs, competencies, and the fragile egos of various teachers who randomly require their lectures for worthless junk like library information, it's a rare treat when I get to spend the day at home.

 

[djtallahassee]

Mandatory lecture is absolutely not worth 10k/year IMO.

That said, I go to a school that doesn't have mandatory lectures and I'm still stuck on campus almost every day. Between labs, competencies, and the fragile egos of various teachers who randomly require their lectures for worthless junk like library information, it's a rare treat when I get to spend the day at home.

Sounds like my school. We have something required at least everyday with 100% compliance to required classes, feel trapped.

 

[Magus5454]

Mandatory lecture is absolutely not worth 10k/year IMO.

That said, I go to a school that doesn't have mandatory lectures and I'm still stuck on campus almost every day. Between labs, competencies, and the fragile egos of various teachers who randomly require their lectures for worthless junk like library information, it's a rare treat when I get to spend the day at home.

Hey Renal has no labs, but we do have 3 mid terms in the space of a week.

 

[throwaway90210]

most of our clinical lecturers at LMU DCOM arent worth listening to. thank God we do not have mandatory attendance.
A lot of their stuff is flat out out of date or just plane wrong.

Miss our strong basic science faculty

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I would pay double that to not have to go to anything except labs and lab exams. The school insists on wasting my time with random crap instead of just leaving me be.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I would prefer not having mandatory attendance in most cases, but CUSOM is a school I actually respect for their high board scores and 100% placement rates that are very consistent every year. So I would actually wanna attend CUSOM over WVSOM.

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[DrStephenStrange]

most of our clinical lecturers at LMU DCOM arent worth listening to. thank God we do not have mandatory attendance.
A lot of their stuff is flat out out of date or just plane wrong.

Miss our strong basic science faculty

Sorry man, I believe my school stole some of your good faculty members. And we also have the founding dean of LMU as our dean.

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[Ho0v-man]

Depends. Omm requirements matter too.

 

[ortnakas]

I'm about to have to start paying my loans, and while I didn't love mandatory attendance, I'm glad I didn't get myself even more loans to avoid it. (To be fair I was PBL so it wasn't all that bad, but still).

 

[Birdstrike]

Whats up everyone. I'll be a OMS1 this upcoming summer. I know its been discussed ad nauseam (mandatory attendance vs optional) but I'm wondering if people at schools w/ mandatory attendance would pay (and how much) to have the option not to attend.

Long story short - is it that bad? lucky enough to have 2 acceptances (CUSOM & WVSOM). CUSOM is ( 10K / year cheaper) has mandatory attendance.

Mandatory attendance at the Medical School level is absurd and patronizing. I went through phases in medical school where I didn't go to class and did great. I literally learned more by not going to class at times. Then, I'd go through phases where I went to class, mainly just to see people and be social, because never going to class can get very isolating. The point is, that by the time you're in graduate school, at this level, paying a minor fortune to go to school, you deserve to be treated like an adult. If you learn the material and ace the test, **ck them for telling you you didn't do it "their way." It's all wrote memorization anyways.

Medical School is hard. Having freedom, autonomy and being treated like an adult, is important.

 

[PorkChopsOG]

Mandatory lecture is absolutely not worth 10k/year IMO.

That said, I go to a school that doesn't have mandatory lectures and I'm still stuck on campus almost every day. Between labs, competencies, and the fragile egos of various teachers who randomly require their lectures for worthless junk like library information, it's a rare treat when I get to spend the day at home.

I feel bad for your class with the OS lectures all being mandatory.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Whats up everyone. I'll be a OMS1 this upcoming summer. I know its been discussed ad nauseam (mandatory attendance vs optional) but I'm wondering if people at schools w/ mandatory attendance would pay (and how much) to have the option not to attend.

Long story short - is it that bad? lucky enough to have 2 acceptances (CUSOM & WVSOM). CUSOM is ( 10K / year cheaper) has mandatory attendance.

Those are decent options. I would pick WVSOM for alumni network and the non mandatory attendance. Plus don't they give you instate tuition after the first year if you become a resident of WV?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I would pay extra for no mandatory lectures without a second of regret

 

[throwaway90210]

our EPC faculty do that. make stuff mandatory just so they can talk in front of loads of people and feel imporrtant

 

[Neopolymath]

My garbage school switched to mandatory attendance between M1 and M2. I would do just about anything to avoid that including paying them a LOT of extra money.

Do not go to a mandatory attendance school. Everyone thinks it won't matter for them and then even those people realize they made a gigantic mistake sooner than later.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

My garbage school switched to mandatory attendance between M1 and M2. I would do just about anything to avoid that including paying them a LOT of extra money.

Do not go to a mandatory attendance school. Everyone thinks it won't matter for them and then even those people realize they made a gigantic mistake sooner than later.

I know you can't, but this really deserves a name and shame. I'd take a pm

 

[BorntobeDO?]

our EPC faculty do that. make stuff mandatory just so they can talk in front of loads of people and feel imporrtant

Lol, the clinical faculty at my school are like this as well. And, of course, have the obligatory non-clinical curriculum designer or whatever they call them who is constantly trying to decrease board prep time while increasing time in the classroom

 

[Magus5454]

My garbage school switched to mandatory attendance between M1 and M2. I would do just about anything to avoid that including paying them a LOT of extra money.

Do not go to a mandatory attendance school. Everyone thinks it won't matter for them and then even those people realize they made a gigantic mistake sooner than later.

Id be pissed

 

[DrStephenStrange]

So people really would rather be half a million dollars in debt rather than $250K just to have non-mandatory attendance. For me, that's really really hard to believe. Maybe I'm missing the big picture here, but I really doubt it. Sure, I would rather non-mandatory attendance to enjoy a little bit more freedom, but I don't think it's worth that much money to have it though. My school use to have mandatory attendance for all classes, but now only some classes are, and I still go to class every day anyway because I don't think it's really that bad, and our professors are great and not boring. Even if they were awful at teaching, I probably would still go to class because I get depressed being alone at home anyway, and I wouldn't get things done. I guess that's just me though.

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[Magus5454]

So people really would rather be half a million dollars in debt rather than $250K just to have non-mandatory attendance. For me, that's really really hard to believe. Maybe I'm missing the big picture here, but I really doubt it. Sure, I would rather non-mandatory attendance to enjoy a little bit more freedom, but I don't think it's worth that much money to have it though. My school use to have mandatory attendance for all classes, but now only some classes are, and I still go to class every day anyway because I don't think it's really that bad, and our professors are great and not boring. Even if they were awful at teaching, I probably would still go to class because I get depressed being alone at home anyway, and I wouldn't get things done. I guess that's just me though.

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Let me give you an example. At KCU we often have a lecture given at both campuses. During MSK I definitely preferred the other campuses lecturer and I would have hated to have to go to ours only to have to watch the one I preferred later. Also, it certainly wasnt a difference of 250k to come here

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Let me give you an example. At KCU we often have a lecture given at both campuses. During MSK I definitely preferred the other campuses lecturer and I would have hated to have to go to ours only to have to watch the one I preferred later. Also, it certainly wasnt a difference of 250k to come here

Lol ok I get that, and I can understand your case. KCU is trying to manage 2 campuses at the same time, and that can cause chaos with students being split between professors at both locations, but what about ppl at schools that only have one campus is it really worth paying double the tuition they currently have? I mentioned the difference of $250k because some people say they would pay double what they're paying just to not have mandatory attendance.

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[Magus5454]

Lol ok I get that, and I can understand your case. KCU is trying to manage 2 campuses at the same time, and that cause chaose, but what about ppl at schools that only have one campus is it really worth paying double the tuition they currently have. mentioned the difference of $250k because some people say they would pay double wjat they're paying just to not have mandatory attendance.

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Some people just dont learn from lecture and I can see it cut into their study time.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Some people just dont learn from lecture and I can see it cut into their study time.

And I get that as well. Is it really worth paying double your tuition though? If not how much more would you be willing pay over 4 years (20K, 50K, 70K, 100K)?

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[DrStephenStrange]

Some people just dont learn from lecture and I can see it cut into their study time.

And what if you had to choose between an MD with mandatory attendance vs a DO with no mandatory attendance? Would you have chosen the DO?

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[Magus5454]

And what if you had to choose between an MD with mandatory attendance vs a DO with no mandatory attendance? Would you have chosen the DO?

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MD

 

[Neopolymath]

So people really would rather be half a million dollars in debt rather than $250K just to have non-mandatory attendance. For me, that's really really hard to believe. Maybe I'm missing the big picture here, but I really doubt it. Sure, I would rather non-mandatory attendance to enjoy a little bit more freedom, but I don't think it's worth that much money to have it though. My school use to have mandatory attendance for all classes, but now only some classes are, and I still go to class every day anyway because I don't think it's really that bad, and our professors are great and not boring. Even if they were awful at teaching, I probably would still go to class because I get depressed being alone at home anyway, and I wouldn't get things done. I guess that's just me though.

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I don't have time to explain what has been mentioned on SDN forever, but I'll just say that any school that uses mandatory attendance will have many, many other things that will be absolutely awful for students because only garbage schools do these things. It's the (gigantic) tip of the iceberg.

 

[sunshinefl]

So people really would rather be half a million dollars in debt rather than $250K just to have non-mandatory attendance. For me, that's really really hard to believe. Maybe I'm missing the big picture here, but I really doubt it. Sure, I would rather non-mandatory attendance to enjoy a little bit more freedom, but I don't think it's worth that much money to have it though. My school use to have mandatory attendance for all classes, but now only some classes are, and I still go to class every day anyway because I don't think it's really that bad, and our professors are great and not boring. Even if they were awful at teaching, I probably would still go to class because I get depressed being alone at home anyway, and I wouldn't get things done. I guess that's just me though.

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Yes I would. Better to have $500,000 debt and be a doctor than $200,000 debt and fail out.

And what if you had to choose between an MD with mandatory attendance vs a DO with no mandatory attendance? Would you have chosen the DO?

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Yes. I repeat. Better to be a DO then an MD failure.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I don't have time to explain what has been mentioned on SDN forever, but I'll just say that any school that uses mandatory attendance will have many, many other things that will be absolutely awful for students because only garbage schools do these things. It's the (gigantic) tip of the iceberg.

I know what has already been mentioned about mandatory attendance. I was just asking is it actually worth getting an extra 100K-250K more in loans? Also, would you prefer sucking it up and go to an MD school with mandatory attendance over a DO school with no mandatory attendance?

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[sunshinefl]

I know what has already been mentioned about mandatory attendance. I was just asking is it actually worth getting an extra 100K-250K more in loans? Also, would you prefer sucking it up and go to an MD school with mandatory attendance over a DO school with no mandatory attendance?

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For others it might not be worth it, but I know myself. I would not be able to complete any medical school with mandatory attendance.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Yes I would. Better to have $500,000 debt and be a doctor than $200,000 debt and fail out.



Yes. I repeat. Better to be a DO then an MD failure.

Do people actually fail because of mandatory attendance or because of other factors like laziness/procrastination...?And what do you say of CUSOM which a school with mandatory attendance and actually is doing great. It's one of the schools with the highest board scores and 100% placement rate every year.

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[DrStephenStrange]

For others it might not be worth it, but I know myself. I would not be able to complete any medical school with mandatory attendance.

I can agree with you there. Then that would be more of a personal preference, not the general rule. For me, it's different. I learn more by actually going to class.

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[NotYou20]

I would pay double that to not have to go to anything except labs and lab exams. The school insists on wasting my time with random crap instead of just leaving me be.

Wasting my time is literally the only thing my school is actually good at.

 

[Lawpy]

why won't schools with mandatory lecture attendance simply get rid of lectures and replace them with PBL? @Goro @Med Ed

 

[Goro]

why won't schools with mandatory lecture attendance simply get rid of lectures and replace them with PBL? @Goro @Med Ed

Because their faculties heads are in the 19th century.

Pbl is labor intensive, alas.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

My school is 100% lecture based via school portal meaning we watch all our lectures at home. Newer school. I spend Friday-Sunday at home. Mondays tests. Tuesday and Thursday lab days. Wednesday is PE day. I'm stuck on campus Tuesday and Thursday for 8 hours (4 in the morning of Tuesday for lectures and 4 in the morning of Thursday for lectures with labs in the afternoons for another 4 hours). I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to have those 8 hours between Tuesday and Thursday removed and labs be moved up to the morning.

We are expected to watch sooo much at home online, yet still required to go in to do pointless self-assessment quizzes, which is pointless because I'm already behind on lectures and can't catch up because i'm so caught up studying for the next exam and watching mandatory lectures that I really can't miss (like PE lectures where you actually have to know your **** in front of a doctor)

So... yes... I would pay to have no mandatory attendance. I'd stay at home those 8 extra hours a week and watch like 6-7 lectures.

 

[deleted244469]

Whats up everyone. I'll be a OMS1 this upcoming summer. I know its been discussed ad nauseam (mandatory attendance vs optional) but I'm wondering if people at schools w/ mandatory attendance would pay (and how much) to have the option not to attend.

Long story short - is it that bad? lucky enough to have 2 acceptances (CUSOM & WVSOM). CUSOM is ( 10K / year cheaper) has mandatory attendance.

Yep. I’d pay an extra $5k/yr for non-mandatory attendance, and I’m 100% serious.

 

[getfat]

I go to a school with "mandatory attendance". I use quotations because they aren't as emphasized as other schools.

Some schools require a sign in, or utilize assigned seats to determine if you are there. Our school just requires a clicker which most of my class just trades off times with the clicker. Or utilizes a friend that loves to go to class.

As someone that went to a school that switched policies from non-mandatory to mandatory attendance, I can now confidently say the mandatory class thing is bad but it shouldn't be a deal breaker for some schools.

Perfect example is campbell, I would sit through mandatory attendance for better quality rotation sites. I'm starting to realize that pre-clinical years are pretty similar for most schools. We all have terrible instructors and we all have to jump hoops one way or another. What sets most them apart is quality rotations which is technically half of your med school experience.

 

[831929]

Look at match list, go to the one with better match list or average step scores

 

[Med Ed]

why won't schools with mandatory lecture attendance simply get rid of lectures and replace them with PBL? @Goro @Med Ed

As @Goro stated, PBL is very resource-intensive. In fact, it is probably the most expensive type of curriculum to run. I'm not sure about DO school curricula, but in the allopathic world there is only one school that does "pure" PBL: SIU. Everyone else who uses it takes a hybrid approach.

I'll take PBL over TBL any day, but PBL is tough to get right. Some students love it, some hate it, many wonder if they are getting out of PBL what they should, and don't know how much variation exists between PBL groups even in the same school.

 

[676188]

For schools with mandatory attendance, I understand its a waste of time when you could watch the recorded lecture at 1.5x-2x speed at home, but what's stopping you from sitting in class with your laptop open doing Anki cards instead of listening to the lecture?

 

[Goro]

For schools with mandatory attendance, I understand its a waste of time when you could watch the recorded lecture at 1.5x-2x speed at home, but what's stopping you from sitting in class with your laptop open doing Anki cards instead of listening to the lecture?

Nothing, the school is one like c u s o m which refuses to let students do anything like that

 

[fldoctorgirl]

I would absolutely pay more money for non-mandatory attendance. Even though it's true that we still have to be on campus a lot of days for something, sitting in lecture would just be an absolute waste of time for me. My mind wanders, and I learn nothing. I'd much rather sit in a study room for 2 hours, watch the lecture on 2x speed, actually pay attention, crank out some flashcards, and then go to whatever is required after that. I literally think I would pay twice my tuition if all else was equal besides attendance.

I feel bad for your class with the OS lectures all being mandatory.

They're not all required or I would be so upset. They explained to us that only "those that teach about a lab we are going to be doing" are required. We haven't had a required one in awhile.

 

[getfat]

For schools with mandatory attendance, I understand its a waste of time when you could watch the recorded lecture at 1.5x-2x speed at home, but what's stopping you from sitting in class with your laptop open doing Anki cards instead of listening to the lecture?

It can be distracting even with headphones earplugs hearing people talk about a lecture.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

For schools with mandatory attendance, I understand its a waste of time when you could watch the recorded lecture at 1.5x-2x speed at home, but what's stopping you from sitting in class with your laptop open doing Anki cards instead of listening to the lecture?

I've tried doing this during our lectures that have been mandatory; I've even tried making Anki cards during the lecture. It's actually really hard to focus and just inefficient.

 

[Neopolymath]

For schools with mandatory attendance, I understand its a waste of time when you could watch the recorded lecture at 1.5x-2x speed at home, but what's stopping you from sitting in class with your laptop open doing Anki cards instead of listening to the lecture?

A big issue for me is that the school is forcing me to be at the school at certain inflexible times. I probably listen to 10% of lectures and just ignore it and do my work but the school deciding that at 8 am on this Tuesday I HAVE to be there is childish and bull**** at minimum. If I want to study at 5 am so I have the afternoon off to do something I should absolutely be able to do so. It's insane and goes against what we know works at good schools. Every time my school does something, I think "does the local great MD school that?' The answers in invariable hell no. It's like DO schools only see what other DO schools are doing and evaluate against that.