Why you should become a nurse or physicians assistant instead of a doctor

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Even though so many schools preach primary care for their students which is so lolzy. I swear the goal of med school is to ruin student's lives. Literally everything in the modern world tells people that primary care isn't the way to go for MD students. So I have no idea why the schools seem to think it is and that people aren't going to see through it.

GO USA #IBelieveThatWeWillWin

It's a tragedy. Many of my classmates aren't aware of any of these issues, and I come across as Alex Jones trying to explain it to them. Sorry to say, but this ignorance usually parallels an extremely liberal political philosophy.

I'm hoping by the time 4th year comes around, and the reality of loans and diminishing physician autonomy registers, they'll have migrated a little to the right.

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
It's a tragedy. Many of my classmates aren't aware of any of these issues, and I come across as Alex Jones trying to explain it to them. Sorry to say, but this ignorance usually parallels an extremely liberal political philosophy.

I'm hoping by the time 4th year comes around, and the reality of loans and diminishing physician autonomy registers, they'll have migrated a little to the right.
It always does. The MS-1s who are flabbergasted and believe anesthesiologists make too much money, change their tune when MS-4 hits after MS-3 clerkships. All of a sudden a change in heart occurs and those on their pedestal for going for primary care, suddenly change their mind.
 
You can bet when Bill Clinton had his heart surgery, the person doing anesthesia was an anesthesiologist, not a CRNA. Meanwhile, right before he left office, he signed a Medicare regulation for CRNAs to work independently, which GWB halted. Congresspeople will NEVER see an NP when it comes to care for themselves or their own families. It's for the unwashed masses.
They can work independently.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
It's a tragedy. Many of my classmates aren't aware of any of these issues, and I come across as Alex Jones trying to explain it to them. Sorry to say, but this ignorance usually parallels an extremely liberal political philosophy.

I'm hoping by the time 4th year comes around, and the reality of loans and diminishing physician autonomy registers, they'll have migrated a little to the right.

X100000 would put this bumper sticker on my car if it existed( and I absolutely despise bumper stickers) . Med school machine breeds book/note/audio/take your pick memorizing drones that know 0 about the world around them
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Or I should say, autonomously without physician oversight.
When the surgeon, dentist, GI guy, etc. is their oversight, do you think they're not autonomous? They don't know anything about anesthesia or why we do what we do. They sure as hell aren't going to detect early signs of trouble and get ahead of it before bad things happen. There are entire hospitals and anesthesia groups that are 100% CRNA. I would never let myself or a loved one have care from an independent CRNA. It will be a cold day in hell when my Children's Hospital allows independent CRNA practice. There are great CRNAs and AAs out there, but when the stool hits the fan, I know who I want making the decisions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
X100000 would put this bumper sticker on my car if it existed( and I absolutely despise bumper stickers) . Med school machine breeds book/note/audio/take your pick memorizing drones that know 0 about the world around them

Sure, but on the opposite end so does rural small town America who fill up the extreme right. Just as ignorant, just as dangerous.
 
Last edited:
When the surgeon, dentist, GI guy, etc. is their oversight, do you think they're not autonomous? They don't know anything about anesthesia or why we do what we do. They sure as hell aren't going to detect early signs of trouble and get ahead of it before bad things happen. There are entire hospitals and anesthesia groups that are 100% CRNA. I would never let myself or a loved one have care from an independent CRNA. It will be a cold day in hell when my Children's Hospital allows independent CRNA practice. There are great CRNAs and AAs out there, but when the stool hits the fan, I know who I want making the decisions.
I didn't say I disagree with you. My point was that when push came to shove, an anesthesiologist was present and there during his heart surgery. Most surgeons don't want the hassle of watching a CRNA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
You do know that you are in no way assured of being a specialist, right? There are people who end up in primary care specialties who didn't choose it to begin with. It's just how things ended up.

So in an ideal world, anticipating a subspeciality shouldn't be a priority.

Ie. as fellowships are not guaranteed, one should avoid internal medicine in hopes of finding your niche area?
 
So in an ideal world, anticipating a subspeciality shouldn't be a priority.

Ie. as fellowships are not guaranteed, one should avoid internal medicine in hopes of finding your niche area?
You are free to do IM and take the risk in your quest for GI or Cards or Heme/Onc. But there is always the risk that you get none of those.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Sure, but on the opposite end so does rural small town America who fill up the extreme right. Just as ignorant, just as dangerous.

Just as ignorant, but not as dangerous seeing as these people are few and far between, vs the group I mentioned which infests any level of education after high school(including high school?). Not to mention the fact that those levels of education almost focus to increase the numbers of those ignorant for the one end. There isn't a similar machine producing people with viewpoints for the right.

-This is all coming from someone with a conservative economic policy and a liberal social one, aka standard libertarian.
 
You are free to do IM and take the risk in your quest for GI or Cards of Heme/Onc. But there is always the risk that you get none of those.

Thought as much. Thanks.
 
Just as ignorant, but not as dangerous seeing as these people are few and far between, vs the group I mentioned which infests any level of education after high school(including high school?).

We can disagree on what makes someone dangerous. But they are not few and far between, they just aren't where you, are it sounds like. Come to the South or the Heartland and get 5 miles from the city center, "liberal" is a curse word and a label that would get one's ass kicked in a bar. But yeah, you won't find them anywhere near Universities, that's part of the problem. (I'm assuming you have successfully passed through the university system without buying the liberal world view, so you know it can be done).

Not to mention the fact that those levels of education almost focus to increase the numbers of those ignorant for the one end. There isn't a similar machine producing people with viewpoints for the right.
You're saying the University system produces liberals and that there is not a comparable machine producing conservatives? I'd argue that the comparable machine on the extreme right is the lack of education, formal and informal, which allow for an uncritical adoption of mom/dad/grandparents voting record and worldview. Even if new ideas were to be introduced, they would be quickly stamped out by cultural norms/precedent. It's less systematic and strategic but no less effective for multiplying the numbers.

-This is all coming from someone with a conservative economic policy and a liberal social one, aka standard libertarian.

I'm probably closer to your leanings than any other right now, myself. I'd like to see an M.D. or two, in the white house next, also.
 
Last edited:
Members don't see this ad :)
:corny:

This thread is brilliant. I mean, if you had five minutes to learn about what doctors hate and not a second more, this would be the thread to skim. It literally has physicians and medical students alike complaining about all of their arch enemies in one place: nurses, debt, Congress, entitled premeds, "liberals," indentured servitude...I think I saw someone throw Bill Clinton in there. I mean, seriously, congratulations to the Internet and, more importantly, congratulations to SDN.

:claps:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 users
I often find comments to articles more interesting than the article itself. The comment I've quoted below really resonated with me. I know I'm only a rising MS1 and everyone's going to tell me that I have no idea what I'm talking about, but to this I'm going to say: honestly, whatever you are in life, don't kid yourself thinking you won't have to work extremely hard. That's what EVERYONE spends their youth doing. I have friends who are in nursing and the hours are just awful. They work a lot more than they log and the QOL for a nurse isn't much better than it is for a resident. And if you think a kid fresh out of business school or someone working for google has a better life, get your head out of the sand. Their first few years are just as important, tiring, and grinding as medical school. As a young person, if you want to be successful, you have to put in the time whatever you do. The hours are the same in every field. I know med students, residents, and physicians who are really happy. None of them went into medicine for the money or for the prestige. They all chose medicine because of the intellectual appeal of the profession and they haven't been disappointed. Some of them are family members and family friends.

Comment on that article: "Interesting read, but I think you missed a few points here. I am sorry that so many of your friends who are doctors or who are training to be doctors are unhappy and it is very unfortunate if this is because they did not know what they were getting into. However, based on my own experience and my conversations with my medical school classmates, I think that this is not the case for the majority of physicians in training.
1. Many medical students and residents enjoy the process. I am much happier as a medical student than I was as an undergraduate even though I work much harder now. I am excited about what I am learning. I don’t resent the fact that I have less time for partying or that I now go on a daily 30 minute run instead of spending 90 minutes playing soccer every afternoon like I did as an undergrad. To me, the trade off is worth it. I think many of my classmates feel the same way. Although I have definitely interacted with some overworked, overtired residents, most of the residents and fellows that I interact with are still passionate about what they do and excited about their jobs. I would also like to add that about half of my class is in a committed, long-term relationship with a significant other. Quality of life is a subjective measure (they even teach you that in medical school). While the author of this article may think physicians have a poor quality of life, there are many medical students and physicians who think that their quality of life is excellent.
2. While there is some overlap between what nurses, PAs, and doctors do, there are also some significant differences. I will use an example to illustrate my point. I was recently in clinic and my team saw a patient with a very rare disease. The PA on the team (who is truly excellent at her job) saw the patient first and did a basic physical exam. If you just want to see patients and do physical exams, then maybe becoming a PA is the right job for you. The doctor then saw the patient and, because the patient’s disease is very rare, was unsure what the best course of action was. He then went back to his office and started delving into the scientific literature, reading case reports and reading about clinical trials conducted in patients with a disease that has a different presentation, but a similar etiology. The doctor decided the patient should undergo genetic testing and then did some more research to decide exactly what testing should be done. Nurses and PAs do not get to go on information hunts like this. The reason I and many of my classmates have chosen to pursue an MD is because although we want to be involved in patient care, we also want to work through problems like this.
3. Bench research. I have never heard of a nurse or PA who has a wet lab. If you want a balance of basic science or translational research and patient care, then you need to get an MD or MD/PhD ( although I know many physicians without a PhD who run labs).
In conclusion, I agree that one shouldn’t go to medical school to make a lot of money or if the only reason they want to become a doctor is to “help people.” But, if you are a curious person who finds medicine, pathology, and the human body fascinating and enjoys being intellectually challenged, then don’t let this article scare you away. While medical students, residents, and young physicians are not rich, most of us did not go into this profession with the intention of becoming rich. So shadow several physicians and talk to medical students and residents before you apply to medical school. Try working in a lab. It doesn’t take that much effort to get a pretty good idea of what life as a physician is like or what training to be one involves."
 
:corny:

This thread is brilliant. I mean, if you had five minutes to learn about what doctors hate and not a second more, this would be the thread to skim. It literally has physicians and medical students alike complaining about all of their arch enemies in one place: nurses, debt, Congress, entitled premeds, "liberals," indentured servitude...I think I saw someone throw Bill Clinton in there. I mean, seriously, congratulations to the Internet and, more importantly, congratulations to SDN.

:claps:
Thank you OC DEMS.
 
Can you even imagine what their malpractice would be?
You seem to be under the impression that lawsuits and malpractice are somehow related to experience and competence. Actually it is the nice providers (and those that apologize for their mistakes) that get sued less. Which profession has more of a reputation for being nice... physicians or nurses?

It's actually a pretty slick marketing campaign on the nursing side:
1. Increase scope, while being nice to cover deficiencies
2. Equality of pay, because patients are satisfied
3. ???
4. Profit
 
Thank you OC DEMS.

If you're implying that my sarcasm was meant to be political, it wasn't. I was trying to catch up on the thread and realized how ridiculous it had become as I reached the last page.
 
Last edited:
I often find comments to articles more interesting than the article itself.

This is true for many, many articles. It is true 100% for articles about Newt Gingrich
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
You seem to be under the impression that lawsuits and malpractice are somehow related to experience and competence. Actually it is the nice providers (and those that apologize for their mistakes) that get sued less. Which profession has more of a reputation for being nice... physicians or nurses?

It's actually a pretty slick marketing campaign on the nursing side:
1. Increase scope, while being nice to cover deficiencies
2. Equality of pay, because patients are satisfied
3. ???
4. Profit

I know quite a bit about malpractice, LOL!

Point is: someone working under their own license needs insurance. It probably won't cost as much as an MD but they'll still need 1M/3M for most insurances. They'll also have to pay for tail coverage.
 
I know quite a bit about malpractice, LOL!

Point is: someone working under their own license needs insurance. It probably won't cost as much as an MD but they'll still need 1M/3M for most insurances. They'll also have to pay for tail coverage.
So we can imagine what their insurance would be. Less than an MD, but with equal scope and equal reimbursements. Sounds like a winning formula to me too.
 
What is it with people and money? 70K, really? Yeah, sure, I could get by on that. But honestly..having money rocks. And having more is better than having less. You can do all kinds of cool stuff with money. Maybe it won't change my baseline happiness or something, but it makes traveling to Europe possible, or buying an Aston Martin, or taking autotech classes so I can learn about cars, or affording guitar lessons for myself and my kids, or paying the mortgage, or going to nice restaurants, which I enjoy, etc...

Seriously.

Or, in the words of the great @jetproppilot

Why make 150K when 450K is out there?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/why-make-150k-when-450k-is-out-there.509725/


jetski_50834.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I guess it is a case of 'the grass is always greener on the other side'... I have met a lot of RN/PA/NP that said if they had a do over, they would go med school and there are many out there that after being a RN/PA/NP for many years who went or are going back to school to become MD/DO. Come to think of it, have you guys/gals met a physician who went back to school for a complete career change... Not talking about business school.

I think a problem is that a lot of physicians never had other careers and, as such, don't really know how tough they are or how much they suck. When I worked in the biotech industry, people in my group would occasionally work/stay overnight to do LAB WORK. How ridiculous is that? One time my supervisor was called in at 2am because a freezer was alarming and he got....a coupon for a cup of coffee. At least if you are called in as a doctor you get PAID if you are on call.

Being a doctor is still a pretty sweet deal overall, though not as good as it used to be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I think a problem is that a lot of physicians never had other careers and, as such, don't really know how tough they are or how much they suck. When I worked in the biotech industry, people in my group would occasionally work/stay overnight to do LAB WORK. How ridiculous is that? One time my supervisor was called in at 2am because a freezer was alarming and he got....a coupon for a cup of coffee. At least if you are called in as a doctor you get PAID if you are on call.

Being a doctor is still a pretty sweet deal overall, though not as good as it used to be.
Actually you don't. If you work for a hospital - you're already paid in salary. Call is part of your duties.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I think a problem is that a lot of physicians never had other careers and, as such, don't really know how tough they are or how much they suck. When I worked in the biotech industry, people in my group would occasionally work/stay overnight to do LAB WORK. How ridiculous is that? One time my supervisor was called in at 2am because a freezer was alarming and he got....a coupon for a cup of coffee. At least if you are called in as a doctor you get PAID if you are on call.

Being a doctor is still a pretty sweet deal overall, though not as good as it used to be.

To be fair, most people don't know much about careers outside of there own. Just because most physicians aren't aware of the difficulties in other industries doesn't diminish medicine being a pretty tough field. Which career is objectively worse is anyone's guess.

I was an engineer after college too and I must say, I never had to work after hours or overnight. I was out of the office most days by 4:30, as were the majority of my co-workers. I don't have enough experience yet to compare this to life as an attending, but my guess is I will be working considerably harder (but at least I will be payed better too).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
To be fair, most people don't know much about careers outside of there own. Just because most physicians aren't aware of the difficulties in other industries doesn't diminish medicine being a pretty tough field. Which career is objectively worse is anyone's guess.

I was an engineer after college too and I must say, I never had to work after hours or overnight. I was out of the office most days by 4:30, as were the majority of my co-workers. I don't have enough experience yet to compare this to life as an attending, but my guess is I will be working considerably harder (but at least I will be payed better too).

.
 
Last edited:
To be fair, most people don't know much about careers outside of there own. Just because most physicians aren't aware of the difficulties in other industries doesn't diminish medicine being a pretty tough field. Which career is objectively worse is anyone's guess.

I was an engineer after college too and I must say, I never had to work after hours or overnight. I was out of the office most days by 4:30, as were the majority of my co-workers. I don't have enough experience yet to compare this to life as an attending, but my guess is I will be working considerably harder (but at least I will be payed better too).
I wouldn't say most--maybe many.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
CRNAs already can practice completely independently in 17 or 18 states and can practice without an anesthesiologist in the others, but they are practicing at the direction of the proceduralist. (None)

Can you explain this further? Are the CRNAS doing like ASA 1 MAC cases (colonoscopies, etc)? Or are they providing anesthesia for more complex procedures/sicker patients? And it's the surgeon taking the liability of overseeing the CRNA?

If I ever find myself in the position where I'm simultaneously operating on a patient and overseeing a CRNA (and I assume taking malpractice liability), I'm running from that hospital/anesthesia group.
 
Can you explain this further? Are the CRNAS doing like ASA 1 MAC cases (colonoscopies, etc)? Or are they providing anesthesia for more complex procedures/sicker patients? And it's the surgeon taking the liability of overseeing the CRNA?

If I ever find myself in the position where I'm simultaneously operating on a patient and overseeing a CRNA (and I assume taking malpractice liability), I'm running from that hospital/anesthesia group.

Sounds like oral surgery is out of the question :laugh:
 
At least 1/4 of my classmates in medical school would have been happier doing a PA or NP. At least from what I saw. It isn't an insult, it isn't judgemental, I just think that people don't know what their options are early enough. I certainly didn't really know what an NP or a PA was before starting residency, much less before starting medical school. It would have been of zero interest to me, but that isn't the point.

Genuine question, why do so many people on sdn say this? What did your classmates say/do that makes you think they would be happier as PAs? Saying "i hate my life" is just the culture among undergrads these days. I wonder if these same students in med school fail to convey in their tone that they aren't serious.
 
Genuine question, why do so many people on sdn say this? What did your classmates say/do that makes you think they would be happier as PAs? Saying "i hate my life" is just the culture among undergrads these days. I wonder if these same students in med school fail to convey in their tone that they aren't serious.

It isn't about kidding or not kidding. It isn't about them saying something specific or tone. It is more of an attitude thing than anything. What they want from their job they can get from being a PA at a fraction of the cost to finances, lifestyle and time. There are aspects of being an MD that you just can't get in any other medical profession. Things like absolute autonomy and responsibility come to mind in particular. There are a lot of people that want to clock in, clock out and collect a paycheck. Going through pre-med, med school and then residency is the wrong pathway for someone looking for that. I'm NOT saying that you can't do that, many people do, and there isn't anything inherently wrong with it. But, in terms of long term happiness and fulfillment, it is sacrificing a lot for no reason.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
It isn't about kidding or not kidding. It isn't about them saying something specific or tone. It is more of an attitude thing than anything. What they want from their job they can get from being a PA at a fraction of the cost to finances, lifestyle and time. There are aspects of being an MD that you just can't get in any other medical profession. Things like absolute autonomy and responsibility come to mind in particular. There are a lot of people that want to clock in, clock out and collect a paycheck. Going through pre-med, med school and then residency is the wrong pathway for someone looking for that. I'm NOT saying that you can't do that, many people do, and there isn't anything inherently wrong with it. But, in terms of long term happiness and fulfillment, it is sacrificing a lot for no reason.

Although I agree that the sacrifice for someone just looking to clock in/out isn't worth it, making 200k a year is not "no reason". If these people can clock in/out as PAs, why not do it as an attending and make an extra 80k+ a year? (genuine questions again lol not trying to be belligerent)
 
Although I agree that the sacrifice for someone just looking to clock in/out isn't worth it, making 200k a year is not "no reason". If these people can clock in/out as PAs, why not do it as an attending and make an extra 80k+ a year? (genuine questions again lol not trying to be belligerent)
Bc there is no clock in-clock out for MDs. Only for very few specialties (realize mimelim is a Vascular Surgeon so medicine is truly a calling for him).
 
Bc there is no clock in-clock out for MDs. Only for very few specialties (realize mimelim is a Vascular Surgeon so medicine is truly a calling for him).

Ya I get that and I want to preface this by saying that no doubt you guys know more about medicine than me. Many of physicians/residents that I have come into contact with have contentedly described their work as clock in/out. I think the ER resident I spoke to might have even said the words "clock in-clock out". I know ER docs work shifts but I think he was trying to emphasize how much time off he gets and once he is done with work he is done (no call etc.) So can't a strong argument be made that those students would be better off in medicine because of they money?

Also I think it's interesting that @mimelim thinks that 1/4 of his class would be happier being PAs because they don't measure up to the standards he holds for physicians (clock in clock out work). It's very noble of him to work as hard as he does but saying that others would be happier being PAs because they don't want to work 70 hours a week forever...I disagree.
 
Although I agree that the sacrifice for someone just looking to clock in/out isn't worth it, making 200k a year is not "no reason". If these people can clock in/out as PAs, why not do it as an attending and make an extra 80k+ a year? (genuine questions again lol not trying to be belligerent)

It could be $80k, but it could be less (like 30k or 40k?). Consider all the extra years of MD training where you are making -$ or minimal, it doesn't really end up being $80k.
 
Ya I get that and I want to preface this by saying that no doubt you guys know more about medicine than me. Many of physicians/residents that I have come into contact with have contentedly described their work as clock in/out. I think the ER resident I spoke to might have even said the words "clock in-clock out". I know ER docs work shifts but I think he was trying to emphasize how much time off he gets and once he is done with work he is done (no call etc.) So can't a strong argument be made that those students would be better off in medicine because of they money?

Also I think it's interesting that @mimelim thinks that 1/4 of his class would be happier being PAs because they don't measure up to the standards he holds for physicians (clock in clock out work). It's very noble of him to work as hard as he does but saying that others would be happier being PAs because they don't want to work 70 hours a week forever...I disagree.

I think you are misunderstanding. I don't think he is implying this at all. He is saying that being a PCP is almost the same as being a PA/NP. If you can get there with much less sacrifice, it would make more sense. There are other people who get more value of having the distinction of an MD degree/training, like those who want an academic career or most specialties.
 

I don't understand the whole "practice to the full extent of their education and training" argument. If they actually did practice according to their education, NPs would spend half of their time online in fake discussions about the merits of some defunct nursing theory invented by some random person which no one actually uses in real life.

You know what nurses who wanted to treat patients did? They went to medical school
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I don't understand the whole "practice to the full extent of their education and training" argument. If they actually did practice according to their education, NPs would spend half of their time online in fake discussions about the merits of some defunct nursing theory invented by some random person which no one actually uses in real life
Well, that and bombarding news stories, articles, about NPs and MDs and citing "studies" of how much better NPs are than MDs, as well as being holistic, more caring, etc. Must be nice when you can spend 30 minutes with each patient and see like 8 patients a day.
 
I don't understand the whole "practice to the full extent of their education and training" argument.

Brilliant Orwellian language. They are a shrewd bunch. The "full extent" of both their education and their desired scope can just keep extending. Brilliant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Brilliant Orwellian language. They are a shrewd bunch. The "full extent" of both their education and their desired scope can just keep extending. Brilliant.
Without required licensing exams or required formal residency training. After all, then you're just imposing on their ability to treat patients.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Ya I get that and I want to preface this by saying that no doubt you guys know more about medicine than me. Many of physicians/residents that I have come into contact with have contentedly described their work as clock in/out. I think the ER resident I spoke to might have even said the words "clock in-clock out". I know ER docs work shifts but I think he was trying to emphasize how much time off he gets and once he is done with work he is done (no call etc.) So can't a strong argument be made that those students would be better off in medicine because of they money?

Also I think it's interesting that @mimelim thinks that 1/4 of his class would be happier being PAs because they don't measure up to the standards he holds for physicians (clock in clock out work). It's very noble of him to work as hard as he does but saying that others would be happier being PAs because they don't want to work 70 hours a week forever...I disagree.

Read what you claim I said and then read my posts, they aren't the same. The only person making this an hours issue is you. If you are going to openly claim that you know nothing about medicine or how the medical field works, at least don't put words into people's mouths to start arguments.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
At least the $70k or $75k figure that was in the news a few years ago was somewhat plausible but $40k/year, really? That's like $550-600 a week after taxes and fringe benefits. :laugh:



Cool, let me know how that works out when the novelty of playing doctor wears off and you're frustrated with jerk patients. When it gets to that point, all you have is money and lifestyle.
Are you assuming that nurses or other medical staff do not have to deal with jerk patients? The fact is, almost every job that provides communication with people will result in run ins with "jerks."
 
Actually you don't. If you work for a hospital - you're already paid in salary. Call is part of your duties.
Depends on the way your compensation package is structured. Some hospitals offer incentive pay for call, some only for extra call, and some pay nothing at all.
 
Top