Why you should become a nurse or physicians assistant instead of a doctor

[DermViser]

Thought this was an interesting article:

http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2012/...ctor-the-underrated-perils-of-medical-school/

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[EMDO2018]

You should be banned for posting this. If people here wanted to be nurses they would be. 50k at 22 and 40 year career < 300k at 32 and 30 year career.

 

[DermViser]

You should be banned for posting this. If people here wanted to be nurses they would be. 50k at 22 and 40 year career < 300k at 32 and 30 year career.

Did you even READ the article, fledgling MS-1? The thread title is the title of the article. It's talking about the realities of medicine, and how many people who are too far deep in realize that they would have been much better off entering another pathway, many times to the same if not relatively same destination (i.e. NP school)

 

[LiamNeesons]

Thought this was an interesting article:

http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2012/...octor-the-underrated-perils-of-medical-school

Interesting rant, hope the author feels better.

 

[EMDO2018]

Did you even READ the article, fledgling MS-1? The thread title is the title of the article. It's talking about the realities of medicine, and how many people who are too far deep in realize that they would have been much better off entering another pathway, many times to the same if not relatively same destination.

lol

 

[DermViser]

Interesting rant, hope the author feels better.

Thank you, fledgling MS-2. Hope you feel the same way after MS-2, Step 1, and MS-3.

 

[LiamNeesons]

Thank you, fledgling MS-2. Hope you feel the same way after MS-2, Step 1, and MS-3.

My training is superior to any nursing webinar, and I never took any short cuts when things got tough. 100,000 nurses pretending to be doctor will never change that.

 

[DermViser]

My training is superior to any nursing webinar, and I never took any short cuts when things got tough. 100,000 nurses pretending to be doctor will never change that.

Your training and what you're allowed to do is based on scope of practice laws. The govt. (whether federal or state) decides what the scope of practice is for a physician, a nurse practitioner, and a physician assistant, not your educational institution.

 

[VisionaryTics]

Thank you, fledgling MS-2. Hope you feel the same way after MS-2, Step 1, and MS-3.

I do.

edit: Just noticed something. The author is NOT ACTUALLY IN MEDICINE. He's a dingus PhD student. Deleted my rant. Not worth getting worked up over fools.

 

[DermViser]

I do.
I do.

[edit: Just noticed something. The author is NOT ACTUALLY IN MEDICINE. He's a dingus PhD student.]

The author's post is a nice bit of "grass is always greener". His main point is that medicine is inflexible: the hours, the match system, the burdens of debt, the extreme difficulty in making career changes for a while. He denigrates the practice of medicine (his dreary portrayal of "average doctors" [whom he doesn't feel are as interesting or intellectual as he is], his minimization of the educational value of residency [are you kidding me?]), then pulls nursing out of his ass by just repeating the phrase "patient care" as if what nurses do and what physicians do are the same because we both take care of patients.

His argument for nursing is so weak as to not even be worth addressing. The meat of his editorial is that medicine didn't live up to the hype. He wanted a respected, well-paying, secure, intellectually-stimulating career that has enough flexibility that he can have tantric sex 40 hours a week and switch careers at the drop of a hat with zero financial consequences. Sorry, that profession doesn't exist.

Let's go back to one of his early points: most people are average, so don't expect to do be an "above-average physician" (note: he specifically conflates being average with being primary care). So let's take the average person he's talking about and pull them out of medicine into the quagmire of the world outside our little bubble. He has some romantic idea that life would be fine ("your 20s are supposed to be confusing").

Yeah, nursing and PA are good careers. But so is being a physician. It's just not the end-all, be-all of careers that society makes it out to be.

He strikes me as an entitled, snobby brat who picked medicine for all the wrong reasons, didn't do his research, and is now pissed off that he doesn't get to have his cake and eat it, too.

I'll end on a quote he used in the article:
Unfortunately, people are not good at picking a job that will make them happy. Gilbert found that people are ill equipped to imagine what their life would be like in a given job, and the advice they get from other people is bad.

You do know there is this thing called Nurse Practitioner, right?
He's more talking the level of investment needed.

 

[jakeislove]

I'm turning over a new leaf and being nice. Author seemed like an idiot.

 

[Psai]

You should be banned for posting this. If people here wanted to be nurses they would be. 50k at 22 and 40 year career < 300k at 32 and 30 year career.

Money is worth way more when you're younger than when you're older. You have more expenses and more responsibilities. When you're old, you will own your house, no student loans, be winding down your career etc. You should enjoy yourself while your body is still strong and you are relatively attractive. You aren't going to be skydiving in Hawaii or backpacking in Europe when you're 60.

 

[DermViser]

Money is worth way more when you're younger than when you're older. You have more expenses and more responsibilities. When you're old, you will own your house, no student loans, be winding down your career etc. You should enjoy yourself while your body is still strong and you are relatively attractive. You aren't going to be skydiving in Hawaii or backpacking in Europe when you're 60.

The poster you're responding to is an MS-0.

 

[BooRadley85]

DermViser, calling people out for being an MS-1, -2, etc is a little odd seeing that you're posting the article/post most of your comments in the medical student forum. If you want responses from non-fledglings, move on.

- a fledgling MS-4

 

[jakeislove]

The poster you're responding to is an MS-0.

Pre-MS know all, LOL!

 

[db1210]

Interesting article. I think it would be beneficial for more aspiring medical students to work after undergrad, make some money, spend it, etc. I studied abroad, worked for a few years and traveled, so I don't feel my 20s are being wasted just yet, but there's still time.

The part mentioning Norman Borlag helping people more than a doctor is something I've observed. Some, not all, med students want to change the world, but you have a greater chance of helping large amounts of people by being an engineer. Granted, most engineers (like doctors, lawyers, anyone, etc.) will not make a difference on a large scale. You'll make a greater impact getting people clean drinking water, treating sewage and designing vehicle safety features than operating on someone or giving them some pharmaceuticals for a parasite. Prevention is key.

 

[SoundofSilver]

For what it's worth, I thought the article was pretty spot on despite being a bit melodramatic at times.

 

[Donald Kimball]

Yeah, if I had known 6 years ago what I know now, I might have considered PA or NP school more seriously.

 

[DermViser]

For what it's worth, I thought the article was pretty spot on despite being a bit melodramatic at times.

For some people, facts on the ground are easy to ignore. The smart ones, don't.

 

[DermViser]

Yeah, if I had known 6 years ago what I know now, I might have considered PA or NP school more seriously.

You're a Medical Student (accepted), so in theory, you can always change gears. When you're in a hole, you stop digging.

 

[DermViser]

DermViser, calling people out for being an MS-1, -2, etc is a little odd seeing that you're posting the article/post most of your comments in the medical student forum. If you want responses from non-fledglings, move on.

- a fledgling MS-4

It's more for MS-3s/MS-4s vs. MS-1/MS-2s who have yet to step on the wards, and currently have the protection of the classroom.

 

[IlDestriero]

Don't be a physician, be an orthodontist.

Though in the interest of full disclosure, I like my career very much.

 

[el_duderino]

I don't really get the point of the article. Physician and nurse are completely different jobs. They work together, and in the same places, but they're not that similar in function. Nursing school was never on my radar as an alternative to medicine because I don't want to be a nurse. I'd be happier staying in my current network administration position.

I suppose that people who are interested in health care might want to consider nursing as an alternative, but I don't think nursing is going to push the right buttons for people who are considering being doctors. For some of them, sure.

And DermViser, you can't just say the article is targeted at MS3/4s when the entire point of the article is to make people reconsider careers in medicine. By the time you're an MS3 you're not going to drop out and go to nursing school. The article is clearly targeted towards people who are considering medical school.

 

[DermViser]

I don't really get the point of the article. Physician and nurse are completely different jobs. They work together, and in the same places, but they're not that similar in function. Nursing school was never on my radar as an alternative to medicine because I don't want to be a nurse. I'd be happier staying in my current network administration position.

I suppose that people who are interested in health care might want to consider nursing as an alternative, but I don't think nursing is going to push the right buttons for people who are considering being doctors. For some of them, sure.

And DermViser, you can't just say the article is targeted at MS3/4s when the entire point of the article is to make people reconsider careers in medicine. By the time you're an MS3 you're not going to drop out and go to nursing school. The article is clearly targeted towards people who are considering medical school.

@jonnythan, NP scope of practice is being widened to include many of the tasks formerly done only by physicians. My comment on MS-3/MS-4s was more for BooRadley85's comment, not the article specifically.

 

[VisionaryTics]

The poster you're responding to is an MS-0.

The author you posted is a PhD.

 

[DermViser]

The author you posted is a PhD.

How is that relevant to the actual facts and assertions being made? Only MDs can remark on the realities of medicine and medical education?

 

[Mad Jack]

You aren't going to be skydiving in Hawaii or backpacking in Europe when you're 60.

Speak for yourself. Stay in good shape and you can certainly be going on adventures into your 60s.

I lucked out as a nontrad and got the best of both worlds- travel and money while I'm young, and being a physician with a solid career and resources when I'm old

 

[DermViser]

LOL, Good Point, also some would say Dermatologists aren't real doctors

Says the Radiation Oncologist, whose specialty is in 1 treatment modality.

 

[el_duderino]

How is that relevant to the actual facts and assertions being made? Only MDs can remark on the realities of medicine and medical education?

You're dismissing someone's opinion because they're an MS-0.................. but the article author is an MS-never.

 

[DermViser]

You can say the same about surgery or medicine (ie one treatment modality: surgery, chemotherapeutics).

You're right and they don't get accused of not being "real" doctors either.

 

[el_duderino]

You can say the same about surgery or medicine (ie one treatment modality: surgery, chemotherapeutics). But I do find it interesting that you come to a medical student forum, dissing medical student opinions and calling them inferior to yours.

To be fair, he spends a lot less time dissing their opinions than he does simply pointing out how many years of medical school they've been through

 

[circulus vitios]

Making more than about $40,000/year does little to improve happiness (this should probably be greater in, say, NYC, but the main point stands: people think money and happiness show a linear correlation when they really don’t).

What kind of idiot honestly believes this.

 

[BurghStudent]

...you should also be aware that calls to lower doctor pay, like the one found in Matt Yglesias’s “America’s Overpaid Doctors: We pay our doctors way too much”...

Uh oh, Yglesias strikes again.

 

[DermViser]

To be fair, he spends a lot less time dissing their opinions than he does simply pointing out how many years of medical school they've been through

No, their opinions are inherently wrong. They being MS-1s/MS-2s are just evidence of that. Saying the person is a PhD and thus must be wrong is ludicrous.

 

[LiamNeesons]

...

 

[Iwillhealyou]

Look at me, I have a PhD in Astrophysics. Now excuse me, I have to go give a lecture on how to properly milk a cow to some dairy farmers. I know that point will be lost on you so I'll put it plainly. Having a PhD doesn't make your opinion in a subject unrelated to that PhD worth any more than any other Tom, Dick, or Jane. In fact, someone who has 1 or even 2 years of personal experience with the medical education system inherently has 1 or 2 more years of experience than this guy with the PhD in whatever.

 

[Arkangeloid]

For me, I had a choice between medicine and working at a 7/11 my dad would buy (100% serious, this was my parent's plan for me if medicine didn't work out).

There's nothing wrong with the latter choice, but I did not want to become a page in my father's history book. Medicine gave me a chance to avoid that fate.

I guess I don't mind not having the romance and sex stuff, never having experienced romance or sex.

 

[DermViser]

Look at me, I have a PhD in Astrophysics. Now excuse me, I have to go give a lecture on how to properly milk a cow to some dairy farmers. I know that point will be lost on you so I'll put it plainly. Having a PhD doesn't make your opinion in a subject unrelated to that PhD worth any more than any other Tom, Dick, or Jane. In fact, someone who has 1 or even 2 years of personal experience with the medical education system inherently has 1 or 2 more years of experience than this guy with the PhD in whatever.

Says the premed.

 

[DermViser]

For me, I had a choice between medicine and working at a 7/11 my dad would buy (100% serious, this was my parent's plan for me if medicine didn't work out).

There's nothing wrong with the latter choice, but I did not want to become a page in my father's history book. Medicine gave me a chance to avoid that fate.

I guess I don't mind not having the romance and sex stuff, never having experienced romance or sex.

Medicine, PA, NP would all have given you a chance to avoid that fate. Medcine and 7/11 aren't your only options.

 

[Iwillhealyou]

haha, I could update my status but I could really care less.

 

[Arkangeloid]

Medicine, PA, NP would all have given you a chance to avoid that fate. Medcine and 7/11 aren't your only options.

Hah, nursing is so overwhelmingly female that I would never choose such a profession, not that my parents would let me (good luck explaining to other Indians that your boy is a nurse rofl).

I wouldn't have minded becoming a PA, but being a physician brings more prestige and honor to the family name. Also, my brother is headed to medical school, if I became a PA I would spend even more time in a shadow. By going to med school, I avoid such a fate.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

No, their opinions are inherently wrong. They being MS-1s/MS-2s are just evidence of that. Saying the person is a PhD and thus must be wrong is ludicrous.

Why is an opinion from an MS1/MS2 inherently wrong? I'd really like to understand this reasoning.

 

[DermViser]

Hah, nursing is so overwhelmingly female that I would never choose such a profession, not that my parents would let me (good luck explaining to other Indians that your boy is a nurse rofl).

I wouldn't have minded becoming a PA, but being a physician brings more prestige and honor to the family name. Also, my brother is headed to medical school, if I became a PA I would spend even more time in a shadow. By going to med school, I avoid such a fate.

There's a difference between a nurse and an NP. Try to learn the difference. Also, if you think that "prestige" and "honor to the family name" are good reasons for being a physician and that somehow will fill the void in other areas of your life, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[DermViser]

Why is an opinion from an MS1/MS2 inherently wrong? I'd really like to understand this reasoning.

It's not inherently wrong by the virtue of being an MS-1/MS-2. But as demonstrated by those posts above, it isn't surprising that one is an MS-0 and the other is an MS-2, respectively. They have no experience whatsoever and are currently under the protection of the classroom. Learning basic sciences is not "medicine" and definitely not the realities of daily clinical medicine.

 

[Iwillhealyou]

No, their opinions are inherently wrong. They being MS-1s/MS-2s are just evidence of that.

It's not inherently wrong by the virtue of being an MS-1/MS-2.

Just step back a minute, look at yourself and ask 'what's wrong with me?'

 

[el_duderino]

Just step back a minute, look at yourself and ask 'what's wrong with me?'

He's saying that their opinions are wrong; the fact that they're MS<3 or whatever is not the reason they are wrong. They are inherently wrong.

 

[Mad Jack]

For me, I had a choice between medicine and working at a 7/11 my dad would buy (100% serious, this was my parent's plan for me if medicine didn't work out).

There's nothing wrong with the latter choice, but I did not want to become a page in my father's history book. Medicine gave me a chance to avoid that fate.

I guess I don't mind not having the romance and sex stuff, never having experienced romance or sex.

I knew a guy from India that ran four convenience stores. No matter what time of the day or night I went in, he was there, working his personal favorite. One day I had to ask, "how many hours a week do you work?" "About 100, give or take."

Got to know him a bit over the years. He had a wife, multiple kids, two half-million dollar homes, all of which he never saw. "So what's the point? You've got these nice homes and a wife, but you never see them." "The point is, one day, I'm going to sell all of this and have the life I always dreamed of." And then one day, he was just gone. He sold the place to a cousin's son, packed up, and retired at 45, with two paid off homes and a no doubt loaded bank account.

Perfect example of why medicine isn't the best field if you aren't in it for the money. You could do better running a motel or a couple of liquor, gas station, or corner stores.

 

[DermViser]

Just step back a minute, look at yourself and ask 'what's wrong with me?'

What part is so difficult for you to understand? Their opinions aren't wrong due to being MS-1 (or in his case MS-0)/MS-2. However, once you read their posts and figure out how wrong they are, it's no shock that they are MS-1/MS-2.

 

[DermViser]

He's saying that their opinions are wrong; the fact that they're MS<3 or whatever is not the reason they are wrong. They are inherently wrong.

Thank you. I don't understand why that concept is so difficult for him to understand.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

It's not inherently wrong by the virtue of being an MS-1/MS-2. But as demonstrated by those posts above, it isn't surprising that one is an MS-0 and the other is an MS-2, respectively. They have no experience whatsoever and are currently under the protection of the classroom. Learning basic sciences is not "medicine" and definitely not the realities of daily clinical medicine.

Could they have no experience in the realities of daily clinical medicine and still be correct?