Why is the salary range I find so wide?

[ocwaveoc]

Hello all.
Prior to posting this thread, I've done a research on what podiatrist salaries are just after residency. What I found in one thread indicates that the salary is about 75-85K while this other thread indicates 125K or so. I'd tend to believe the first one. But, I'm not certain.
So, my question is, if you were to practice in southern California, as a new practioner straight out of residency, about how much can you expect to make? Then say, about 5 years later what is the expected salary in Southern California? These questions pertain to a non surgical podiatrist.
Thanks.

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[justincredible]

Hello all.
Prior to posting this thread, I've done a research on what podiatrist salaries are just after residency. What I found in one thread indicates that the salary is about 75-85K while this other thread indicates 125K or so. I'd tend to believe the first one. But, I'm not certain.
So, my question is, if you were to practice in southern California, as a new practioner straight out of residency, about how much can you expect to make? Then say, about 5 years later what is the expected salary in Southern California? These questions pertain to a non surgical podiatrist.
Thanks.

The docs I've shadowed in So Cal are making about 160K (little more or less). That is with 5-10years of experience and with surgery in practice. Im not too sure about the salary range straight out of residency but Im sure the range widens even more when distinguishing b/w surgical and non-surgical docs.

 

[jonwill]

Hello all.
Prior to posting this thread, I've done a research on what podiatrist salaries are just after residency. What I found in one thread indicates that the salary is about 75-85K while this other thread indicates 125K or so. I'd tend to believe the first one. But, I'm not certain.
So, my question is, if you were to practice in southern California, as a new practioner straight out of residency, about how much can you expect to make? Then say, about 5 years later what is the expected salary in Southern California? These questions pertain to a non surgical podiatrist.
Thanks.

Especially concerning non-surgical podiatrists, podiatry is as much (or more so) a business than it is medicine. People that have good business sense do well. Concerning podiatry in general, there is a huge gap in training amongst doctors in the profession. These days, those that get three years of surgical training will start in the low to mid 100's and go up from there. The average salary of a pod certified by the American Board of Podiatric Surgery is around 200k. Compare this with a non-surgical pod in a small, solo practice who is topping out mid 100's but probably has a very good lifestyle.

It is important that people realize that podiatry has become "main stream medicine" so to speak (we are members of medical staff, have full hospital privileges, write rx's, etc). In the "old days", one graduated from pod school and hung up a shingle with little or no residency training. Their income depended upon their business sense. Today, more and more pods are hired on by hospitals, multispecialty, ortho groups, and established practices but many times, this is for their surgical abilities. Don't misunderstand me. There is a place for the non-surgical pod and some do quite well (office procedures are very profitable) but you have to face the fact that many of the big offers go to those well-trained in surgery.

Statistics show that over half of the podiatrists practicing today have no residency training. Some still do extremely well and some not so well. But it isn't hard to see why there is such a wide range of salaries.

 

[bdaddyjolley]

Hello all.
Prior to posting this thread, I've done a research on what podiatrist salaries are just after residency. What I found in one thread indicates that the salary is about 75-85K while this other thread indicates 125K or so. I'd tend to believe the first one. But, I'm not certain.
So, my question is, if you were to practice in southern California, as a new practioner straight out of residency, about how much can you expect to make? Then say, about 5 years later what is the expected salary in Southern California? These questions pertain to a non surgical podiatrist.
Thanks.

It doesnt matter how much you make in So CA in the the range you put because either way you won't be able to afford to live like you can in another state. LOL

 

[krabmas]

To the OP,

If you are considering entering podiatry school and becoming a non-surgical podiatrist:

1st - Would you consider a partial nail avulsion surgery? What about a complete nail avulsion? Would an in office percutaneous flexor tenotomy be surgery? Would a biopsy (shave or punch) be considered surgery?

The answers to the above questions will help determine your potential. All of the above are all procedures and re-imburse better than just an office visit.

2nd - This is my oppinion but - To become a non-surgical podiatrist at this stage of the shift of podiatry it will take lots of self learning. The profession is moving in the direction of a surgical specialty. In order to learn and become proficient/ an expert in biomechanics and other podiatric medical pathologies you will have do a tremendous amount of self teaching and then suffer thru a surgical residency. Orthotics is still a big money maker but there is not as much experience making these as students as there used to be. Each school goes to a lab but not like it was 10-20 years ago when the orthotics were made in the clinics. Casting and prescribing orthotics takes practice. It is not something that is just learned on paper in class.

I am not trying to discourage you, just letting you know what you are getting into.

Also, it may be hard to get hired by an ortho group or any group as a non-surgical pod. So you may be forced to open your own practice straight out of residency, which can be costly.

 

[ocwaveoc]

Krabmas, thanks for your insight. By the time I'm ready to start residency, I'll be 43 years old. I know that in the MD world, age is an issue when choosing certain residencies in addition to even getting into an MD program. I'm wondering how age factors into say DPM school admission and obtaining a surgical residency. I'm sure say for an MD grad who's 43 years old seeking a neuro surgery resideny would have an near 0% chance of getting such residency due to the age factor while say for family practice, it'd not be such an issue. I'm guessing that as a DPM, surgical residency really is the way to go. If so, how much of a disadvantage am I in due to my age in obtaining such residency?

 

[krabmas]

Krabmas, thanks for your insight. By the time I'm ready to start residency, I'll be 43 years old. I know that in the MD world, age is an issue when choosing certain residencies in addition to even getting into an MD program. I'm wondering how age factors into say DPM school admission and obtaining a surgical residency. I'm sure say for an MD grad who's 43 years old seeking a neuro surgery resideny would have an near 0% chance of getting such residency due to the age factor while say for family practice, it'd not be such an issue. I'm guessing that as a DPM, surgical residency really is the way to go. If so, how much of a disadvantage am I in due to my age in obtaining such residency?

I hope someone else has some insight for you. I really have no idea and have not heard of anyone having an issue with age. There are some older students in my class and none of them had trouble matching. One is 40ish w/ several kids and he matched.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Krabmas, thanks for your insight. By the time I'm ready to start residency, I'll be 43 years old. I know that in the MD world, age is an issue when choosing certain residencies in addition to even getting into an MD program. I'm wondering how age factors into say DPM school admission and obtaining a surgical residency. I'm sure say for an MD grad who's 43 years old seeking a neuro surgery resideny would have an near 0% chance of getting such residency due to the age factor while say for family practice, it'd not be such an issue. I'm guessing that as a DPM, surgical residency really is the way to go. If so, how much of a disadvantage am I in due to my age in obtaining such residency?

I don't know of a specific case of age affecting a person's podiatric career. That being said, DMU tracks everything. They use the information to predict which students maybe at risk of struggling in school. The profile which seems to be at the highest risk of failure is an older male student that has taken time off after undergrad with a low physical science score on the MCAT. There are other factors that they track and it has not bearing on admissions; they will just keep closer tabs on people they feel might be at risk.

 

[ocwaveoc]

Especially concerning non-surgical podiatrists, podiatry is as much (or more so) a business than it is medicine. People that have good business sense do well. Concerning podiatry in general, there is a huge gap in training amongst doctors in the profession. These days, those that get three years of surgical training will start in the low to mid 100's and go up from there. The average salary of a pod certified by the American Board of Podiatric Surgery is around 200k. Compare this with a non-surgical pod in a small, solo practice who is topping out mid 100's but probably has a very good lifestyle.

It is important that people realize that podiatry has become "main stream medicine" so to speak (we are members of medical staff, have full hospital privileges, write rx's, etc). In the "old days", one graduated from pod school and hung up a shingle with little or no residency training. Their income depended upon their business sense. Today, more and more pods are hired on by hospitals, multispecialty, ortho groups, and established practices but many times, this is for their surgical abilities. Don't misunderstand me. There is a place for the non-surgical pod and some do quite well (office procedures are very profitable) but you have to face the fact that many of the big offers go to those well-trained in surgery.

Statistics show that over half of the podiatrists practicing today have no residency training. Some still do extremely well and some not so well. But it isn't hard to see why there is such a wide range of salaries.

Hey jonwill, thanks for the information. I've done some research online and looked up the numbers in the us government site and various salary.com sort of sites and found that podiatrists salary is likely about 80K/yr for new grads and about 90-100K with a couple of years of experience (my guesses from the numbers I'm seeing). It seems that with the increase in surgical residencies the new grads go through, the numbers may rise. My question is: if all/most new grads go through surgical residencies, does that mean they all are starting off with low 100k/yr? Can the market absorb all of the surgical residents that the 7 schools produce since it seems that all of the residencies are surgical. I'm sure some go into non surgical practice. But, I'm assuming that most post residents go into surgery. Also, according to the us government site (I think it was the dept of labor), the job outlook for podiatrist wasn't excellent while it wasn't poor. The report stated that the profession is small and since the podiatrists practice until retirement, the new opportunities aren't very high. I'm a bit confused about that statement since MDs practice until they retire as well. Anyway, what is your thought on the above?

 

[ocwaveoc]

From reading some of the posts on this forum, doing some research online, my conclusion on the likelihood of obtaining jobs, salary and the profession as a whole is:
1) The profession is advancing quite a bit and is/has gone towards surgery based practice with most/all graduates going into surgical residencies
2) The job market is saturated in most medium/large cities.
3) It is very difficult for new grads, even with surgical residencies to obtain surgical employment in medium/large cities. Hence, must resort to working at nursing homes etc doing non surgical work
4) A small percentage of the new DPMs straight out of surgical residencies do get into surgical jobs making low 100k's to start with...but a small percentage
5) As DPMs in general, even with surgical residencies, it is difficult to obtain employment even in non surgical settings. Most that are able to land jobs work non surgical jobs that pay about 50-70K's. As mentioned a few percentage do find surgical jobs that pay low 100K's to start...but is an exception not the rule.

If my observation/percention is incorrect, please let me know.

 

[dpmgrad]

From reading some of the posts on this forum, doing some research online, my conclusion on the likelihood of obtaining jobs, salary and the profession as a whole is:
1) The profession is advancing quite a bit and is/has gone towards surgery based practice with most/all graduates going into surgical residencies
2) The job market is saturated in most medium/large cities.
3) It is very difficult for new grads, even with surgical residencies to obtain surgical employment in medium/large cities. Hence, must resort to working at nursing homes etc doing non surgical work
4) A small percentage of the new DPMs straight out of surgical residencies do get into surgical jobs making low 100k's to start with...but a small percentage
5) As DPMs in general, even with surgical residencies, it is difficult to obtain employment even in non surgical settings. Most that are able to land jobs work non surgical jobs that pay about 50-70K's. As mentioned a few percentage do find surgical jobs that pay low 100K's to start...but is an exception not the rule.

If my observation/percention is incorrect, please let me know.

I know of several new graduates that have surgical jobs that pay between 50 - 70 K (of course, this is the base salary and they have incentive bonus tied to this salary range). I also know one new graduate who does very little surgery and is starting above 100.

 

[ocwaveoc]

I see. There are exceptions and rarities such as a non surgical pod making over 100k. My perception overall is that vast majority do not get surgical jobs even with surgical residencies and majority have difficult time obtaining employment. The ones that do get employment end up working for about 50-70k's a yr working at nursing homes. Of course, there are few percent that end up with surgical jobs, hospitals ortho groups. But, am I incorrect in that a great majority have difficult time even getting employment let alone get jobs that pay over 100k's a yr?

 

[efs]

I see. There are exceptions and rarities such as a non surgical pod making over 100k. My perception overall is that vast majority do not get surgical jobs even with surgical residencies and majority have difficult time obtaining employment. The ones that do get employment end up working for about 50-70k's a yr working at nursing homes. Of course, there are few percent that end up with surgical jobs, hospitals ortho groups. But, am I incorrect in that a great majority have difficult time even getting employment let alone get jobs that pay over 100k's a yr?

I would say this is incorrect. I haven't spoken with 1 classmate that did not find a job. (Of course I also have not spoken with everyone in my class.) I don't know of any that are only working at nursing homes. Most have jobs with hospitals or group practices. (That will also typically equate to doing at least some surgery.)

The money part is slippery too. What are people really talking about? $50,000 before taxes and expenses? $50,000 take home pay in the bank after all expenses and taxes? That can be a huge difference. The further up the scale you go, the bigger the difference becomes. $70,000 base with a percentage of collections over a set amount of billings might be a reasonable figure. Would you consider this a $70K salary, or do you look at the $120K in the bank after taxes and expenses?

I don't think the majority are stuggling to find employment.

 

[IlizaRob]

I see. There are exceptions and rarities such as a non surgical pod making over 100k. My perception overall is that vast majority do not get surgical jobs even with surgical residencies and majority have difficult time obtaining employment. The ones that do get employment end up working for about 50-70k's a yr working at nursing homes. Of course, there are few percent that end up with surgical jobs, hospitals ortho groups. But, am I incorrect in that a great majority have difficult time even getting employment let alone get jobs that pay over 100k's a yr?

Where are you getting your information?

 

[ocwaveoc]

Where are you getting your information?

I'm getting my info from some threads under the "podiatry residency" and someone I know who graduated 5 years ago from the school in California. By the way, I am hoping that the information I have IS wrong since I'll be applying to pod schools this summer.

 

[krabmas]

I'm getting my info from some threads under the "podiatry residency" and someone I know who graduated 5 years ago from the school in California. By the way, I am hoping that the information I have IS wrong since I'll be applying to pod schools this summer.

There are always people who do not succeed, even those who got MDs or MBAs or won the lottery for millions of dollars. Some people just don't do well.

In podiatry I think the people that have trouble getting jobs has to do with:

1. personality
2. they believed that everyone gets a residency
3. they believed that since it was easy to get into it must be easy to succeed
4. they would not succeed no matter what they decided to do

If you wark hard and like what you do there is no reason why you cannot succeed.

 

[dpmgrad]

I see. There are exceptions and rarities such as a non surgical pod making over 100k. My perception overall is that vast majority do not get surgical jobs even with surgical residencies and majority have difficult time obtaining employment. The ones that do get employment end up working for about 50-70k's a yr working at nursing homes. Of course, there are few percent that end up with surgical jobs, hospitals ortho groups. But, am I incorrect in that a great majority have difficult time even getting employment let alone get jobs that pay over 100k's a yr?

I think that the information that you obtained is incorrect. Almost all of my classmates are doing surgeries in their practice. Of course, some are doing much more surgeries than others. Some of the people will have to do some work at a nursing home to help increase the revenue initially since they are not so busy when they initially join a group. Majority of the recent grads that I know from surgical residency programs are working in Podiatry groups, multidisciplinary groups, Ortho groups, private practice, or the hospital. Some of them will have to spend some time during the week at a nursing home but they are mainly based out of the office or hospital. Most of them, if not all, are doing surgery.

I think that you may be confused as to what a "surgical job" may be. In my opinion, a "surgical job" would be a situation where a DPM does some surgery. It does NOT mean that the DPM must be spending more than 50% of his/her time in the operating room. Many of the DPMs that I know that are in a "surgical job" does surgery on the average of 1 - 2 days a week. They spend the rest of the time in the office seeing patients or seeing patients in the nursing home or other facilities.

As for the 50 - 70 k salaries, I am sure that many of them have incentive bonus attached to them. Many of those people may be able to make more than or close to 100 k at the end of the year due to the bonus that they earn.

 

[calcaneus]

Just to keep things in perspective, I know an OB/GYN who does surgery (in the hospital) 1 day a week. He also took classes and is doing various laser work for varicose veins, etc. to pay the bills--patients for these procedures pay cash.

Anyway, a podiatrist doing surgery 1 or 2 days a week is doing pretty well from experience. When it comes down to it, if you want to work in health care as an MD/DO/DPM, you're going to incrue quite a bit of debt and it's going to take a while to pay that off and have a good practice going. If you have a problem with that, you may want to consider an entirely different industry. Otherwise you're going to have to just suck it up, work hard, and you'll get there someday...that's what I keep telling myself anyway.

MBA's are doing pretty well these days!

 

[krabmas]

MBA's are doing pretty well these days!

Only the smart ones. There are failures in every field. I'm sure there are even people that get MBAs from Warton that are not doing as well as they thought.

For me success is defined by my hapiness not what others perceive that I should be making or doing.

 

[calcaneus]

I completely agree...I was just making a joke.

I'm new to online forums and apparently I stink at sarcasm on a computer!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I completely agree...I was just making a joke.

I'm new to online forums and apparently I stink at sarcasm on a computer!

I've got a ton of posts and still have this problem. I got in flack for calling some Steven Hawkins. I think that is pretty obvious sarcasm, but I have gone to adding (opinion) and (sarcasm) to clarify.