why are ob/gyn residents miserable

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

unregistered

Senior Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2002
Messages
227
Reaction score
1
I am not trying to insult anyone, but why do ob/gyn residents as a whole seem to be unhappy. While this can be said for other fields (surgery for example), ob/gyns seem to be more bitter than the average resident (at least surgeons know they are going to get slammed and live with it). I base this opinion on having gone through a rotation, and just generally hearing other students who rotated at a number of other sites and from students at other schools. My personal feeling is that ob/gyns know less medicine and are less adept at surgery (unsolicited opinion). Additionally, there is significantly less evidence based medicine both in a practical and literature sense, I find this aspect of it to be disconcerting.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Originally posted by unregistered
I am not trying to insult anyone, but why do ob/gyn residents as a whole seem to be unhappy. While this can be said for other fields (surgery for example), ob/gyns seem to be more bitter than the average resident (at least surgeons know they are going to get slammed and live with it). I base this opinion on having gone through a rotation, and just generally hearing other students who rotated at a number of other sites and from students at other schools. My personal feeling is that ob/gyns know less medicine and are less adept at surgery (unsolicited opinion). Additionally, there is significantly less evidence based medicine both in a practical and literature sense, I find this aspect of it to be disconcerting.

Maybe part of why they're bitter is because many of their professional colleagues go around saying that ob/gyns don't know much about medicine or surgery, and that they don't practice EBM. You wouldn't be insulted by such an assessment about your chosen field? I don't think that you could more professionally insult an ob/gyn if you tried. I do recognize that you are genuine in your post.

Ob/gyns get their job done extremely well, just like most everyone else in medicine.
 
I'm on my OB/GYN rotation now as well. While they're generally a very nice bunch, I think the tough call nights (virtually no sleep, as opposed to surg/med/other call nights) really wear them down. Definitely not lacking in any skills though.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I agree with unregistered.. OB/GYN residents are the most bitter ive encountered with Surgery residents pulling a close second. Ive also noticed that practicing OB/GYNs are a bitter and grouchy bunch too...My aunt is one of them.. I wanted to be an OB/GYN untill I did my clerkship. I thought i was going to finish my residency and take over my aunts practice. I loved the work and got honors in it but I hated the people I worked with. Anyway the whole OB/GYN attitude turn me off and I didnt want to end up like them next year, walking around like someone just stabbed my dog. Hence I have switched to the wonderful world of Anesthesiology where the grass is greener, the sun is brighter, the people are happy and the milk and honey flow freely. :D
 
I really enjoyed my Ob-Gyn rotation during 3rd year. The residents I interacted with were generally happy people who love what they do each day. I think your experience during third year is program-dependent. Our program adheres to the 80 hr work week, and third and fourth year residents get to do some rotations in a private practice setting (much nicer than the county hospital). The interns work their butts off, which is expected in any program. But even they get a few "cake" rotations, such as REI and pathology.

I think Ob-Gyn is a fantastic field with so much variety, and is what I plan to go into. Where else can you work in clinic, the OR, and still have continuity of care? I definitely have heard the surgeon/anesthesiologist statement that "Ob-Gyns are not surgeons." My take on it is no other field knows the female pelvis like the Ob-Gyn, not even the general surgeon (aka "guts-n-butts").

kdoc2005 :)
 
My 3rd year rotation was one of the worst. The residents were unhappy and miserable as you say. I remember listening to conversations basically showing the envy for Derm, rads and similar specialties. There was only one male resident in the entire program and he seemed the most miserable. Several residents were involved in lawsuits which just added to my resolve to get the pass and move on.
 
I've heard similar things about OB/GYN residents.. As an M3 who has my OB/GYN rotation next, does anyone have any suggestions about how to facilitate getting along with stressed-out residents and/or how to get feedback without offending them further? thanks..
 
It's too bad that the specialty that serves women is the one no one wants to do. How many difficulties can we overcome in this world?

I'm a pre-med - most of my exposure has been in Ob/Gyn and I have been intending to go into that specialty - but I hear so many negative things I feel I would be naive to think I might like it.

Does anyone know what the lawsuits are about? Is it usually a poor outcome with a surgery or something?
 
If a baby is born with any kind of birth defect it will usually end up as a lawsuit.The potential financial reward from brain injured children is so high that malpractice lawyers salivate at the thought of such cases.Even if there is no strong evidence for negligence a good lawyer can often come up with something that will force a settlement.Poor outcomes in medicine are not uncommon and do not necessarily lead to malpractice suits,but injured children are a unique situation.Perhaps if there was a better financial support system for middle class parents faced with such an infant the pressure to initiate legal action would diminish.
 
Originally posted by irlandesa
I've heard similar things about OB/GYN residents.. As an M3 who has my OB/GYN rotation next, does anyone have any suggestions about how to facilitate getting along with stressed-out residents and/or how to get feedback without offending them further? thanks..

And they are a miserable bunch indeed. My advice ignore them.. I always ignored and aviod nasty OB residents when possible..I think they are nicer when you just leave them alone. I think it pisses them off when you talk. So my advice is go do your job, learn from attendings if thats possible, otherwise read and you will learn b/c its a very hands on roation, but ignore and avoid those miserable residents this stratagey got me an A and never been saner.
 
I am a 2nd year ob/gyn resident, and it is so unfortunate that you guys are so misinformed about the specialty of ob/gyn. The main problem that we see with students is that you guys tend to ask questions at the wrong time (i.e. during a stat c/s or while a pt is abrupting) which can be very irritating and annoying. Ob/gyn is a very hands-on specialty, and it is very annoyng when the students appear lazy and disinterested. Ob/gyn is one of the toughest residencies and yes we are stressed, but I think you guys are really embellishing how bad things really are. It's really sad, because you guys are missing out on one of the best specialties of medicine.
 
Originally posted by obgyn02
I am a 2nd year ob/gyn resident, and it is so unfortunate that you guys are so misinformed about the specialty of ob/gyn. The main problem that we see with students is that you guys tend to ask questions at the wrong time (i.e. during a stat c/s or while a pt is abrupting) which can be very irritating and annoying. Ob/gyn is a very hands-on specialty, and it is very annoyng when the students appear lazy and disinterested. Ob/gyn is one of the toughest residencies and yes we are stressed, but I think you guys are really embellishing how bad things really are. It's really sad, because you guys are missing out on one of the best specialties of medicine.

Well here's something to look forward to when you graduate

http://www.inc.com/20031201/theworst.html
 
A good friend of mine is an OB GYN. She performed a slightly difficult delivery using a suction device. The woman sued for post partum depression supposedly resulting from the difficult delivery! Her practice keeps an attorney on retainer for $90k per year to handle these nuisance cases. I do think she loves her work and makes a great living however.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
goober,

I really enjoyed that article in Inc. That is why I honestly believe that ob/gyn is a calling. The specialty chooses you. I would rather be happy doing ob/gyn with the potential threat of lawsuits hanging over my head than doing internal medicine being miserable for the next 40 years. It all comes down to being happy with the choice made. Even if I coulld see into the future and know that I would be sued 8x during my career, I would still choose ob/gyn. To me, it's the only choice.:)
 
obgyn02,

I'm so glad to hear from a resident that loves ob/gyn. I'm a third year med student and whenever I tell anyone I'm interested in ob/gyn, everyone keeps telling me to "keep all my options open" and that I should think about "lifestyle" and "malpractice." Although it is important to consider everything, it's good to hear that people like you can still do ob/gyn and be happy.

:) kem
 
The main problem that we see with students is that you guys tend to ask questions at the wrong time (i.e. during a stat c/s or while a pt is abrupting) which can be very irritating and annoying. Ob/gyn is a very hands-on specialty, and it is very annoyng when the students appear lazy and disinterested.
I did OB/GYN as my first rotation, which I made a point of mentionning when I met each resident and attending. I was kept in the dark about what my duties were, and then screamed at when I didn't perform them. I was accused of being lazy.

At one point, I was sent off on an errand by one resident. When I returned with the thing she asked for, another resident asked me very snidely if I had been off sleeping again. The first resident was sitting right there and shrugged when I said that I had been running an errand for her.

We had several one-on-three teaching sessions with attendings, but were told in very clear terms that if something interesting was happening in the OR or anywhere else, to stay and finish what we were doing, and just let them know later. The very same attending who told us that reamed me for not coming to his teaching session when I skipped it for the rupture ectopic surgery. Then he wrote gave a a C.

I almost quite med school. I was so happy to discover that I could find happiness on just about any other rotation.

I have no idea why they were out for my blood. They also tortured the other MSIII on his first rotation and gave him an F.
 
Its understandable that many of you have negative thoughts. As with any rotation, you are bound to get paired up with the wrong resident, and at the wrong time. The OB-GYN residents are likely a tired bunch as are their surgery, IM, etc. counterparts.

I think the problem with this thread is the gross over generalization. NOT all of us have had bad experiences ith our rotation and NOT all of us think that they are miserable. As an example, I'm curious to see where "Goober" rotated that "several" residents are involved in law suits.

A problem I noticed on my rotation was that a couple of students from the first few days told the residenst that they didn't like the field, malpractice, life style.... not a smart way to start off any rotation. Another was lack of reading by the student.

Although there is no excuse to treat the students bad, I think you must also look at yourself and see if it was the resident's personality in general or something you did. I personally did OB-Gyn clerkships and electivies at 3 diff places in 3 diff states and did not have a problem, and am glad to be soon continuing on as a resident in the field.

Best of luck to all of you in whatever field you end up.
 
Originally posted by Global Disrobal
I think the problem with this thread is the gross over generalization. NOT all of us have had bad experiences ith our rotation and NOT all of us think that they are miserable. As an example, I'm curious to see where "Goober" rotated that "several" residents are involved in law suits.



Well obviously not all ob/gyn residents are miserable. I think the thread starter was getting at ob/gyn residents as a whole are more miserable than other specialties. Of course if you look at any individual or single institution that may not be the case. But seriously if the perception wasn't there to begin with than people would not be chiming in.

BTW if you think that residents don't get named in lawsuits you are pretty naive.

Here are some articles for you to read and enlighten yourself.

"The majority of OB/GYN residents from Hospital of University of Pennsylvania already have at least one malpractice lawsuit pending against them when they graduate, and some have multiple lawsuits pending, says Thomas J. Bader, M.D., residency program director of HUP?s department of OB/GYN."

http://www.physiciansnews.com/cover/803.html


"Dr. Mark Woodland, program director for ob-gyn at Drexel, said in an e-mail message to a Daily News reporter that 15 to 20 percent of graduating ob-gyn residents in Philadelphia have been named in at least one lawsuit."

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/5957345.htm
 
Two of the four senior residents where I rotated were involved in malpractice lawsuits.

Of course not all OB/GYN people are miserable, and I'm glad people have fared better than me in their rotations. We need OB/GYNs after all! For me though it was striking how miserable the residents where I rotated were, and they did a great job of making me miserable too. I got along very well in surgery, IM, peds, EM, etc.
 
Originally posted by kem
obgyn02,

I'm a third year med student and whenever I tell anyone I'm interested in ob/gyn, everyone keeps telling me to "keep all my options open" and that I should think about "lifestyle" and "malpractice."

:) kem

Argh! This happens to me ALL the time!! I am so sick of it. If you're going to dump on my career choice, then why even ask me what I want to do--very rude.

I think that this response comes from the fact that in medicine rumors run rampant and cliches are propagated without the speaker really knowing what they're talking about.

Finally, a comment I sometimes get in response to me telling them I want to be an OB is "God bless you."

Jeez...
 
I know this is going to make some people mad.... but oh well.

A good friend of mine has a saying:

"If five people tell you you stink, YOU STINK!"

My point is that the "rumors" and "cliches" did not spring out of nowhere, a lot of people have had bad experiences rotating as med students on ob-gyn. Of course all ob-gyns are not miserable and all residencies are not brutal (thank goodness).

Certain bad odors are pleasurable to some people.
 
what kinds of surgery do ob/gyns do? i hope i dont sound ignorant.

what are some reasons some of you were interested in ob/gyn?

im going to med school soon and i aspire to be an ob/gyn, but i have had similar experiences with everyone discouraging me. its sad really.

thanks
 
You are not going to believe this but my mom actually got extremely mad when I told her I am going into Ob-Gyn!! I can tell she was kind of embarrased for some reason. Whatever...
I have a question that might sound silly but here it goes:
After an Ob-gyn retires, does he still have to pay malpractice insurance? What happens if someone comes back and sues him after 10 years, and the doctor is already retired?
 
I'm in the middle of my 3rd year ob-gyn rotation right now, and I was suprised by the variety of surgeries ob-gyns can do. Besides caeserean sections and hysterectomies gynecologic oncologists can do different abdominal surgeries (bowel resections, etc) and urogynecologists do all sorts of surgeries to help support prolapsed structures in the pelvis.

Good question NewGuyBob! I have no idea as to the answer but maybe the insurance company that was covering the doctor at the time of the incident would still be liable?

:) Kem
 
Originally posted by kem


Good question NewGuyBob! I have no idea as to the answer but maybe the insurance company that was covering the doctor at the time of the incident would still be liable?

:) Kem

Umm typically not unless you have occurence based malpractice. I don't know of any insurance companies that allow this for OB/GYN although there may be a few out there. With the standard malpractice you have to buy a "tail" coverage for when you retire or change malpractice carriers (this happaens actaully quite a bit, if you move or change jobs and your new group uses a different carrier). Tail coverage covers you basically forever although some sleazy companies are now only covering you for a defined period (1-5 years, which is obviously unacceptable in OB).

In OB these tails are very expensive as they are in any high risk specialty. Typically these run 3 times your annual payments. I know of OB docs that had tail coverage in the 150K range. With some of the states now having premiums in the 100k range their tails must be very high.

This just doesn't just affect retirement. I know one OB who can't leave a group that he is miserable with and move to another state because he can't afford the tail of over 100K. HOw many docs can come up with that type of cash?
 
Goober said:
Typically these run 3 times your annual payments. I know of OB docs that had tail coverage in the 150K range. With some of the states now having premiums in the 100k range their tails must be very high.

Jesus Christ, I have no idea how anyone can pay this!! :wow:

That is insane! Basically I'll have to live looking over my shoulder for lawsuits until the day I die?!? :scared:
NOW, I'm starting to have second thoughts about this specialty. Hey I love Ob/Gyn, but this is to much to ask.

Is it even possible to pay 150K a year while retired?

I'll start to buy lotto tickets, if I win, then maybe I'll go into this specialty. DAMN!
 
I find it intersesting that the only OB resident who has weighed in on this thread--and the only one in a position to dispel OB's malignant reputation--referred to students twice as "annoying" and once as as "disinterested" and "lazy." With an attitude like that, no wonder the bad rep.
 
Originally posted by maugham
I find it intersesting that the only OB resident who has weighed in on this thread--and the only one in a position to dispel OB's malignant reputation--referred to students twice as "annoying" and once as as "disinterested" and "lazy." With an attitude like that, no wonder the bad rep.


I'm a med student currently and I definitely agree there are some damn annoying fellow classmates and, depending on the subject material, also disinterested. Not sure about lazy though...as everyone seems to be studying their butts off for our exams. If it's true...it's true.
 
I was miserable as a third year student on OB/GYN. Whining, whining, whining residents who tried to conceal their dissatisfaction of their specialty choice every time an attending walked into the room. Scut work was whatever they didn't want to do, and residents slept while I, the student, the one who knew nothing about their field, was up seeing their outpatient visits throughout the night. Then, I decided one night to do what the residents did, and sleep whenever I got a chance - that was the nail in my coffin - nobody told me I wasn't allowed to sleep and had to do everything for the other miserable residents.

If there were any residents looked down upon by other services, they were OB/GYN. They were all sleeping with each other, getting pregnant by each other, and had no regard for any other field. I'm not exaggerating here, this is all true. I am thankful for one thing out of my entire OBGYN experience - they managed to show me everything I did not want to become as a physician!

I hope this is not the norm nationwide (I'm sure it isn't) but the extreme to which students recieve dissatisfaction only seems to hold true in OBGYN. It is a shame the negative experiences are so strong...
 
I have exactly the same thoughts as this last thread. Why do people voluntarily pick a field like OB/GYN, then whine about their career choice later. If they are not prepared for sleepless nights, screaming babies, the stress of the profession...why go into it, and take their frustrations out on others? Very strange indeed.
 
Come on now - ObGyn rocks ! It's such a happy specialty - half of the patients are actually not sick, but just pregnant. The other half are very sick and you really feel needed by them. Nothing to compare with the work of dermatologists or plastic surgeons who have to go by the moods of some of their (hysterical) patients.

And please, stop this talk about the money thing - even if you have a ton of money, but you work 40-60 hours per week, than you sleep say 49 hours per week, than you are left with something like 60-80 hours to enjoy life - than you have supposedly family or relatives to take care of ( assumung you are not a selfish person living her/his life for herself/himself) than you are not left with that much time to spend your tons of money on expensive "toys", restaurants, goings out etc. Do you think that a lot of money would make you happy in your free time if you are miserable in the rest of the time when you are earning them?

ObGyn is the best in my opinion, if you don't agree with me - than go and read the other specialty forums.:p
 
I had a great time on my ob/gyn service when I was a third year. So much so that I did an AI in ob/gyn and ultimately an intern year. I went into it for a number of reasons. I loved the patient population which consisted of young, healthy women, and older more complicated ones. The combination of surgery and clinic work was a bonus (although I didn't "love" surgery). And for the most part the work consisted of happy events (child birth). I knew the work would be hard and I did consider such things as lifestyle, lawsuit potential, and residency demands. But just knowing that I was doing what I wanted to should be enough to carry me through the challenges. However, in my intern year, I started to question whether the sacrifice was worth it. My spouse saw me less and less. Call was at least 24 hours (often 36 hours) and usually without sleep. An when I was on call, I worked hard feeling at times that I was working at or just past my limit. To add insult to injury, the reminders of lawsuits would come up from time to time. During didactic sessions, we would go over "difficult" cases and the message would be that about 2/3 of ob/gyns would be sued in their lifetime. Ultimately, I left ob/gyn. For me, the sacrifice was just too much. I thought things would get better after residency and to a certain extent they do. I talked to ob/gyns from Kaiser (HMO) and other groups who were done with residency. The life was better than that of a resident but still demaning. And when I looked at my own attendings, I realized that most of the female faculty were not married. Why would that be? I don't have definate answers but I think it all related to the sacrifices that every ob/gyn must accept. Those include the sleepless nights, sometimes long hours, potential for lawsuit and settlement despite doing everything you could and doing it right, family, etc. For me, the best decision was to move on to something else. Now that I have done so, I am so much happier. I have more balance in my life and am still doing something I love.

Everyone has to make his/her own decision. I too was persuaded not to do ob/gyn when I was a medical student. Ironically, now I often encounter students going into ob/gyn asking me what I think. I can only tell then what I went through with a disclaimer that they must do what feels right for them.

Good luck!
 
Ruby,

I'm thinking of going into OB, but have some hesitation due to the same issues. I was wondering what other field you chose and are you male or female?
 
Diesel,
I went into pathology. What's funny is that I never really considered it as a medical student since I didn't really see them as "real" doctors. I did a fourth year rotation and really enjoyed it. It was surprising but didn't give it much thought until I started to reconsider my choice to go into ob/gyn. Now, I think it's one of the best kept secrets in medicine. Again, to each is own.

Oh, and I'm male.
 
Hey Ruby_1, I have a question for you. Please check your private messages.
 
Top