when to pursue MBA?

[AllisonAsh]

hi,

i'm in my second year of med school and am thinking about the possibility of going to business school between my 3rd and 4th year.

when is the best time to pursue another degree? between 3rd and 4th year? after 4th year? after residency?

thanks

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[mshheaddoc]

I know some who go between 2nd and 3rd and 3rd and 4th.

You never know when business knowledge will help you.

Best of luck!

 

[Flexure]

Hi everyone:

What do you expect to gain from an MBA program? Really it is not a trade school, more of an intense group based clarification of common sense principals. Let's consider the four schools of business:

Accounting:
If you really wanted to concentrate on this you should have been an accountant. This is a huge field but to grasp the basics all you need is a nice book and a few hours.

Marketing:
You're here to prescribe drugs, not sell them. Don't see how this really mixes with an MD's focus.

Finance:
A HUGE field. If you are absolutely interested in maximising personal wealth through investment then you should definitely consider taking some finance courses. They are unique and are a true study. Finance MBA's have an entire new window of opportunities available to them that most MBA's never see (investment banker, stockbroker, etc). The applied science field of economics.

Management:
Worth consideration if you want to be in a leadership role someday. It is true that leaders are made and not necessarily born, this focus can bring you to that point.

There is an up and coming field called Management Information Services which deals with the collaboration of computer science with business purposes.

I'll graduate with my MBA in Spring 05 and can honestly say that it's NOT a major time consuming, immersive, thought-changing gauntlet like med or law. It can, however, put a few extra arrows in your quiver when it comes time to lead. This is a program which can be done at night or on weekends, most people in the program are late 20's - early 30's with lots of people falling outside that range (in both directions), and the admissions team generally wants 2 years of experience on the application. If you really want to do this but feel that your time might be crunched, it really can be postponed until you are ready.

PS I am not an MD or MD hopeful, just married to one.

 

[mward04]

I am not a big advocate of MD/MBA programs. At this point you most likely have 5 years of additional clinical training ahead of you. During this time, your business training has little, if any, utility. Moreover, it is likely that your interests and needs will change during this period. I would wait and consider an MBA program after residency and find a program that meets your needs at that time. You may even decide that an MBA is not necessary.

I am not anti-MBA. I am an advocate of business training for physician managers; however, I seriously question whether the middle of clinical training is the best time to get an MBA.

I couldn't disagree more. First of all, if you're not an advocate of the program, you probably shouldn't give advice about it. Second, between third and fourth year is probably the best time to get the degree. For one thing, you've seen a year of clinical medicine-although far from reality, it's better than nothing. Also, you don't have the family and personal responsibilities you'll have years down the road. Next, you'll be able to "grow up" in the healthcare system seeing healthcare from both a clinical and business perspectives. I can't tell you the number of clinicians that I've spoken to who went back to get their MBAs who said they wished they got their MBAs earlier. Lastly, when you are done with residency, the last thing you want to do is to go back to school. Even if you wanted the MBA, you wouldn't go back.

 

[mward04]

It may be true that the time between 3rd and 4th year is the most convenient time to get an MBA; however, it may not be the best from an educational standpoint. You are still at least 4 years from applying anything you learned. I agree somewhat with Flexure that MBA programs can be easily completed as an evening program -- which many busy people do.

I disagree with Flexure's claim that an MBA has little impact on your thinking. Personally, I found my MBA program to be more interesting than med school in terms of its intellectual impact. In B school, I was exposed to many different ways of solving problems whereas med school is pretty much confined to a single approach (scanning your memory for facts).

True an MBA program can be completed as an evening program but at what cost? You spend all day working, and then you have to attend 3 hour long classes. Don't forget the additional studying. And you're going to see your family when? One recent evening MBA student I spoke with described it as "three years of hell."

In fact, I view the MBA between your 3rd and 4th years as the best from an educational standpoint for several reasons:
1. You're still in studying mode. How much do you think you'll feel like studying when you've been out of school for 5, 10 years?
2. You'll only add 1 year on to your total schooling whereas an evening or executive program can add 3+ years on. Despite only adding 1 year, you'll get the 2 year experience. Many programs have you do an additional semester or evening classes during your final year of clinical medicine in the med school.
3. You will be able to view healthcare from both a clinical and business perspective. Something that is not easy for a 40 year old doc who has only seen healthcare from one perspective their whole life.
4. Especially if you have worked before or you plan to do an internship, you will be able to apply what you've learned immediately.

Now, if you have never worked before, then the MBA is questionable and you can ignore my above advice

 

[mshheaddoc]

True an MBA program can be completed as an evening program but at what cost? You spend all day working, and then you have to attend 3 hour long classes. Don't forget the additional studying. And you're going to see your family when? One recent evening MBA student I spoke with described it as "three years of hell."

In fact, I view the MBA between your 3rd and 4th years as the best from an educational standpoint for several reasons:
1. You're still in studying mode. How much do you think you'll feel like studying when you've been out of school for 5, 10 years?
2. You'll only add 1 year on to your total schooling whereas an evening or executive program can add 3+ years on. Despite only adding 1 year, you'll get the 2 year experience. Many programs have you do an additional semester or evening classes during your final year of clinical medicine in the med school.
3. You will be able to view healthcare from both a clinical and business perspective. Something that is not easy for a 40 year old doc who has only seen healthcare from one perspective their whole life.
4. Especially if you have worked before or you plan to do an internship, you will be able to apply what you've learned immediately.

Now, if you have never worked before, then the MBA is questionable and you can ignore my above advice

I agree with you M. I know a MD student who is going btw 3rd and 4th year right now, this is teaching her to think in a whole different way than she has ever taught. I find it hard to believe that she won't utilize skills she has learned by looking at problems from a fresh new perspective. Yes you might not utilize your business knowledge but honestly, in an MBA prg, unless you are going into statistical financial analysis, concepts remain the same and you come away with parts of the whole idea which are easily refreshed when immersed in situations. That is all MBA teaches you (in some regards) how to react to different environments, business and medicine as well. I truly think that some doctors/med students/pre-meds have skewed ideas of what an MBA is actually used for. Yes it is business knowledge, but its also understanding HOW a life operates on the macroscale. I am an advocate of all the above reasons of why to go to for your MBA during med school. As for evening program, as someone in the program, I'd say GOOD LUCK. Because you will wish you would have done it back in med school when you had the chance. If I could do the MD/MBA or DO/MBA I would given the chance. Its alot to take on esp since I work fulltime and I'm going fulltime this semester

 

[TooJiggly]

I must second that emotion. School sucks, it is a necessary evil that once you are done with and making a sizable income with family, patient responsibilites, you will not want to return to. I am a 3rd year currently applying to MBA schools, and can honestly say that you can always use the MBA knowledge. I have not taken basic geometry since the 9th grade, but I can still tell you the difference between an obtuse and isoceles triangle. Okay, I'm a nerd.

My point is having the MBA knowledge in your formative years of medical practice can only add value in terms of the unique care and service you can offer your patients. Also, you always think in terms of buisness; it is an immutable fact that most doctors get reamed out of potential funds because their primary exposure to the financial world is in the back pages of a BRS behavioral sciences book. It is terrible, doctors are the cornerstone of medical care, but everyone else, insurance companies, etc make the killing.

About using the MBA, I have a buddy in Urology residency (an MBA) who patented and marketed by himself a surgical tool, and many of the residents coming out with these USMLE review books are using business sence. It can be done. Hopefully, in one year, I can say that from personal experience.

 

[TooJiggly]

that's obtuse angle.........pardon.

 

[dr.j1980]

hi,

i'm in my second year of med school and am thinking about the possibility of going to business school between my 3rd and 4th year.

when is the best time to pursue another degree? between 3rd and 4th year? after 4th year? after residency?

thanks

Allison-
I know that you posted this along time ago. I am in the same boat and wanted to hear what you found out. All of my intuition tells me between year 3 and 4. It seems like this is the way to maximize your ability, whether financail, earning ability, intellectual, or humanitarian. I don't really see how people can advocate waiting until after med-school. Think of the landscape of medicine. I feel that a big reason for the disarray is because doctors are not schooled in business which makes them very vulnerable to insurance, health care corporation, etc. etc.. I really think that if M.D.'s had some knowledge in business that a large part of uneeded costs could be cut out. This would also free time so more doctors could help more people. I know that it is unrealistic to think that all these med students can budget their time to get a business background, this is why people like you are needed. I think of it as an advocate for doctors that can really make an impact.

sorry for the soap box!! I have a few questions that are very arbitrary but none the less want to see if anyone can answer. I know that there is a trend of medical schools to accept applicants that are not bio-science. How many med students took significant hours of business classes in college?
What percent of medical industry executive have MD? Are most MPA?

 

[mward04]

couldn't agree more with doing it btw your 3rd and 4th years!

Allison-
I know that you posted this along time ago. I am in the same boat and wanted to hear what you found out. All of my intuition tells me between year 3 and 4. It seems like this is the way to maximize your ability, whether financail, earning ability, intellectual, or humanitarian. I don't really see how people can advocate waiting until after med-school. Think of the landscape of medicine. I feel that a big reason for the disarray is because doctors are not schooled in business which makes them very vulnerable to insurance, health care corporation, etc. etc.. I really think that if M.D.'s had some knowledge in business that a large part of uneeded costs could be cut out. This would also free time so more doctors could help more people. I know that it is unrealistic to think that all these med students can budget their time to get a business background, this is why people like you are needed. I think of it as an advocate for doctors that can really make an impact.

sorry for the soap box!! I have a few questions that are very arbitrary but none the less want to see if anyone can answer. I know that there is a trend of medical schools to accept applicants that are not bio-science. How many med students took significant hours of business classes in college?
What percent of medical industry executive have MD? Are most MPA?

 

[Sina]

Allison-


sorry for the soap box!! I have a few questions that are very arbitrary but none the less want to see if anyone can answer. I know that there is a trend of medical schools to accept applicants that are not bio-science. How many med students took significant hours of business classes in college?
What percent of medical industry executive have MD? Are most MPA?

i actually graduated with a business degree from UT last year and i'm now a first yr at utmb. ive seriously been considering getting my mba but i didnt know when would be the best time. the consensus here seems between 3rd and 4th year. do yall think an mba would be useful considering i graduated from a business school already? UT's mba program isnt as recognized as its undergraduate program, but i've heard that its still a decent program. could someone also point out some examples of doors being opened as a result of being a md/mba.

 

[mward04]

i actually graduated with a business degree from UT last year and i'm now a first yr at utmb. ive seriously been considering getting my mba but i didnt know when would be the best time. the consensus here seems between 3rd and 4th year. do yall think an mba would be useful considering i graduated from a business school already? UT's mba program isnt as recognized as its undergraduate program, but i've heard that its still a decent program. could someone also point out some examples of doors being opened as a result of being a md/mba.

If you've already got an undergraduate degree in business, I question the value of getting the MBA. I know a number of successful physicians that run businesses without having the MBA however, the MBA can help get you in the door at a bunch of places where it would be difficult otherwise. As long as you got a good undergrad experience and you feel comfortable with your education, I say get experience rather than more education.

 

[Sina]

If you've already got an undergraduate degree in business, I question the value of getting the MBA. I know a number of successful physicians that run businesses without having the MBA however, the MBA can help get you in the door at a bunch of places where it would be difficult otherwise. As long as you got a good undergrad experience and you feel comfortable with your education, I say get experience rather than more education.

i'm actually more interested in the doors opening up, cause i feel like i'd be capable of running a decent business. what does everyone else think?