What proportions of fellows now have job offers?

[Ruination]

That sounds like a thorough search. Way to go.

Out of curiosity was the private group with a partner salary of 350k really a partnership (I.e. was the the group owned by ameripath or were there unequal levels of partnership) because 350k means you got a lot down time even with 12 weeks off.

Thanks. I thought that there were some really good opportunities out there this year. Moreso than in past years.

And yes, it was a partnership track position with equal ownership once you made partner (5 years to partner). The first year you were an employee and if everything worked out they kept you on (the last 4 people they hired all made partner). There was a good chunk of vacation (8 weeks) plus one day off every 10 days. I was told that it was a "lifestyle" practice meaning that they could have less people in the group and make more money but the partners weren't necessarily interested in that.

The other group with partnership track that I looked at had 12 weeks off/yr. You made a ton of $$ but you worked your but off when you were at work. This group was about 1/2 the size of the one mentioned above.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Enkidu]

Of the fellows at (2) institutions that I know who have applied this year 5/6 have jobs lined up at this point in time.

My experience in the market, FWIW.

Training:
-- AP/CP (boarded), surgpath, and hemepath

Type of jobs applied to:
-- Academic and community practice

Methods:
-- academic jobs primarily via Pathologyoutlines and American Society for Hematopathology websites; hemepath fellowship connections helped get me interviews at the academic places.
-- community practice jobs via my residency/fellowship connections.

Interviews (in-person only):
-- 7 (4 community practice, 3 academic)
-- timeline for interviews was mid-December to late January

Geography:
-- West of Colorado, with the odd interview on the East coast.

Jobs:
-- Community practice jobs: all were general surg path, one also wanted a hemepath person; 2 were employee-type positions; the other (2) were partnership track (3-5 years). Starting salary ranged from $160-$285K/year, with partner-level salary hitting ~$350K at one and $400K+ at another. Vacation varied from 3-12 weeks/year.

-- Academic jobs: all were mix of general surg path + hemepath with varying proportions. Salary and benefits are what you'd typically expect in academics (crappy).

End result:
-- Number of offers: 2 (1 community practice, 1 academic)
-- Number of rejections: 2
-- Number that I didn't wait around for after getting my desired position: 3

I guess you took the private practice one?

 

[rollwithit]

- Academic jobs: all were mix of general surg path + hemepath with varying proportions. Salary and benefits are what you'd typically expect in academics (crappy).

How crappy these days?

 

[Ruination]

I guess you took the private practice one?

Nope, got the academic job that I wanted.

How crappy these days?

Its a range and depends largely on geography. The areas that I looked at ranged from $150-$185K to start. You can always find some hybrid academic type places like Mayo where you can get private practice salaries, but obviously those are not that common.

 

[Enkidu]

Its a range and depends largely on geography. The areas that I looked at ranged from $150-$185K to start.

Great to know. Do you have an idea how salaries progress with academic rank? Or do they progress independently of academic rank? Also - are you suggesting that these numbers reflect a lower-earning potential because of favorable geography, or a higher-earning potential because of poor location?

 

[Ruination]

Great to know. Do you have an idea how salaries progress with academic rank? Or do they progress independently of academic rank? Also - are you suggesting that these numbers reflect a lower-earning potential because of favorable geography, or a higher-earning potential because of poor location?

I don't pretend to know everything about salary raises, academic promotions, or factors driving salary, so take this with a grain of salt.

I can't speak to research-oriented academic jobs (i.e. faculty who have R01s) as my appointment is primarily clinical in nature, with smaller time requirements for research, education, and administration. In my situation salary is increased without regard to academic rank, the latter coming up for review every 5-6 years. On the interview trail I was told by multiple Dept chairs that for pathologists in my track they like to shoot for salary increases based on AAMC Faculty salary survey data. For example, at 2-3 years I should be at the median salary for my geographic area.

It was alluded to that my salary is a function of geography (i.e. they can pay less because you want to live there) as well as medicare reimbursement, which also varies by geographic region (the same service performed in Iowa pays better than if performed in California). I'm sure there are more factors than just this, but these were specifically addressed during salary discussions.

 

[Enkidu]

I don't pretend to know everything about salary raises, academic promotions, or factors driving salary, so take this with a grain of salt.

I can't speak to research-oriented academic jobs (i.e. faculty who have R01s) as my appointment is primarily clinical in nature, with smaller time requirements for research, education, and administration. In my situation salary is increased without regard to academic rank, the latter coming up for review every 5-6 years. On the interview trail I was told by multiple Dept chairs that for pathologists in my track they like to shoot for salary increases based on AAMC Faculty salary survey data. For example, at 2-3 years I should be at the median salary for my geographic area.

It was alluded to that my salary is a function of geography (i.e. they can pay less because you want to live there) as well as medicare reimbursement, which also varies by geographic region (the same service performed in Iowa pays better than if performed in California). I'm sure there are more factors than just this, but these were specifically addressed during salary discussions.

This is incredibly helpful for me - one more question: Was your sense that the job market for *academic* pathologists was good? My impression is that complaints about the job market are mostly in references to private practice jobs. Also - how important do you think pedigree is in getting an academic job? Thanks a lot!

 

[BU Pathology]

Pathology compensation is available through the AAMC annual survey. These data are very accurate since they are derived from the payrolls of the academic institutions where the pathologists work. You can go to your library and find a copy of these data. In general, published books in the library are more reliable than internet postings.

The information is compensation, which includes salary plus bonus. The compensation numbers do not include fringe benefits. Fringe benefits at academic institutions may be substantial, such as free tuition for your children. That is an after tax benefit, i.e. this money is not subject to federal or state income tax. Retirement benefits also may be substantial, such as the University putting in twice your contribution. If you put in 5%, the University would put in 10%.

The AAMC survey is based on large geographical areas, such as Northeast vs Midwest. It is not finely divided between Boston vs upstate New York.

Pay raises vary year to year depending greatly on the fiscal health of the Department. If the Department is doing well, increased compensation is available.

 

[Ruination]

Enkidu- there are certainly plenty of job postings for academic positions, many of which are pre-filled with internal candidates (seen this at my own training program a few times) or are seeking pathologists with 5+ years of experience. Its hard for me to gauge the *real* demand given these factors and the geographic areas I was looking at. Pedigree probably isn't as important when trying to get a clinical track academic job, although training at a well-respected residency/fellowship and actively publishing certainly helps. I had much more success getting community practice interviews than academic interviews if you look at the ratio of interviews offered/positions applied for. With respect to the dollar amounts that I quoted above-- it was purely annual salary, excluding any bonuses or benefits. PM me and I will send you some of the AAMC salary tables for your perusal.

In general, published books in the library are more reliable than internet postings.

I'm not certain why this comment was warranted. I don't believe that I ever said anything regarding my experience that wasn't factual. At this point in time, is there anyone that doesn't possess some skepticism when anything is said, regardless of who it comes from?

 

[pathstudent]

The AAMC survey is based on large geographical areas, such as Northeast vs Midwest. It is not finely divided between Boston vs upstate New York.

To get an idea of an individual state system you can often times find salaries reported on the Internet as state employee compensation is available to the public. For instance you can search university of California salaries and then look up the faculty at Davis or San Francisco and get an idea of what salaries are in that state. It is how we know that the dermatopathologists at san francisco are the highest state paid employees in California, up there with the football coaches. But that won't tell you if stanford pays similarly as it is private; although you would think they would as if they paid a lot more many of the ucsf faculty would migrate to Stanford over time.

Good point about the non salary benefits at a university. They can be substantial and although I don't think they completely bridge the private-academic gap, they do narrow it. Plus there is more stability and security at a university, in general.

 

[BU Pathology]

I'm not certain why this comment was warranted. I don't believe that I ever said anything regarding my experience that wasn't factual. At this point in time, is there anyone that doesn't possess some skepticism when anything is said, regardless of who it comes from?[/QUOTE]

I apologize if you thought this was a slight directed specifically at you and it is easy to see how it could be interpreted in that manner.

The comment was intended to communicate that if this is an important piece of information for you, such as you are beginning salary negotiations, there are more authoritative sources readily available.

 

[BrainPathology]

I met some of my contacts at a CAP meeting at a bar in the hotel. People who do 3 fellowships and can't get a job are looking in the wrong areas or can't communicate effectively. By the way anyone ever stop to think how much MOC that would be to keep up 3 fellowships and AP/CP? God its not worth it.

I have two other boards besides AP/CP and this was a concern for me as well. I asked Betsy Bennet directly before she left the ABP and was told that the MOC requirements or 35 hours a year (10 of those SAM's) and the rest of the non CME requirements would count toward maintaining all of my board certifications. She was less clear about the tests every 10 years. I'm still not sure if I'll have to take 3 different tests or 1 test with modules spread out between the three different areas. (when I asked her the recert tests were even less certainly planned out than they are now)

This information seemed to counter some of the implications on the web site about voluntarily letting a certification lapse etc. If it holds true it is a very large load off of my mind.

 

[lipomas]

Aren't you limited in how many certifications you can actually have? Can you even certify in AP/CP + 3 fellowships? Maybe 2 at most.

By the way, $350k for a partner salary is not uncommon. It depends on the group and the environment you are in. I interviewed at one private place that was only three pathologists and their partner income was about that level.

 

[dr4n6]

Aren't you limited in how many certifications you can actually have? Can you even certify in AP/CP + 3 fellowships? Maybe 2 at most.

Perhaps the poster may have boards in another specialty besides pathology-it is not that uncommon.

 

[BrainPathology]

Aren't you limited in how many certifications you can actually have? Can you even certify in AP/CP + 3 fellowships? Maybe 2 at most.

By the way, $350k for a partner salary is not uncommon. It depends on the group and the environment you are in. I interviewed at one private place that was only three pathologists and their partner income was about that level.

There used to be a limit of 4 but I was told that has just been lifted. (I never confirmed that since I have no intention of ever having 5 or more certifications)

 

[pathstudent]

Aren't you limited in how many certifications you can actually have? Can you even certify in AP/CP + 3 fellowships? Maybe 2 at most.

By the way, $350k for a partner salary is not uncommon. It depends on the group and the environment you are in. I interviewed at one private place that was only three pathologists and their partner income was about that level.

I would say that is low in the private world unless:

A) You are employed by a larger entity like Ameripath (in which case there is no such thing as being a partner)
B) You work for Kaiser (again, not a partner).
C) You do solely inpatient work and are not super busy.
D) You have a mix of inpatient and outpatient work and are pretty slow on a day to day basis.

 

[deleted314957]

I would say that is low in the private world unless:

A) You are employed by a larger entity like Ameripath (in which case there is no such thing as being a partner)
B) You work for Kaiser (again, not a partner).
C) You do solely inpatient work and are not super busy.
D) You have a mix of inpatient and outpatient work and are pretty slow on a day to day basis.

not necessairly true, at least in my situation.(cat.A)

 

[KCShaw]

There used to be a limit of 4 but I was told that has just been lifted. (I never confirmed that since I have no intention of ever having 5 or more certifications)

Huh. I always heard 3, but that combined AP/CP counted as only 1 of them. For most people it didn't matter since many common fellowships are not boarded fellowships but merely ACGME accredited selective fellowships. Hadn't heard that whatever cap existed was lifted though.

 

[BrainPathology]

Huh. I always heard 3, but that combined AP/CP counted as only 1 of them. For most people it didn't matter since many common fellowships are not boarded fellowships but merely ACGME accredited selective fellowships. Hadn't heard that whatever cap existed was lifted though.

Could be the person I got the information from was counting AP/CP as 2 of the 4. Like I said though I didn't make any attempt at all to verify that you can have more. I just tried to for 10 minutes and couldn't find either a limit or that it had been lifted. And then decided I don't care about the answer enough to continue looking at the moment

 

[LADoc00]

as an aside, is there a sense that one might be able to hire PT desperate recent grad pathologists (like say 80hrs/mo?) for 70-80K or so year? No benies tho.

I might need about 20 of those if my evil plans go right this year...

 

[scienceguy19]

So do, what 90% of fellows have job offers by now? Is that the impression from asking around at USCAP? Or is it much less than that? There's less than 4 months until graduation.

 

[LaBelleVN]

I am 1 of 3 dermpath fellows in my program. I have a job and the others do not. One is truly geographically restricted. The other really wanted to stay in the city, but realized that the job market sucks and is now broadening his search.

 

[ermonty]

I am 1 of 3 dermpath fellows in my program. I have a job and the others do not. One is truly geographically restricted. The other really wanted to stay in the city, but realized that the job market sucks and is now broadening his search.

This is the truth of the job market. All the "oh its not so bad, i have a job" peeps on here had inside connections or networked early during residency. For those who are faced with a true 'job search' then the above is an acurate picture of the job market (and pretty telling as its three dermpath fellows)....

 

[icpshootyz]

To be fair, the dermpath job market dried up as many new fellowships opened in the last 5-10 years. Dermpath is definitely not the easy job market it used to be, especially in desirable locations. It sounds like some fellowships are going to close shop to start to lower the supply, but they way overshot the demand. I know several fellows over the past few years who had to take general path jobs until they could find a dermpath opening somewhere. I guess some of this applies to path in general, and does go against the myth that CAP keeps telling about all these soon-to-be path jobs that are just over the horizon. We'll see.

 

[eddib]

2nd hand info but should be reliable...

Graduating SP fellows from one of the frequently mentioned "top" program in mid-west: 3 fellows are doing a subspecialty fellowship, 2 fellows could not find a job so are looking for 2nd fellowships, 1 found a job (unsure academic or private).

 

[mlw03]

This is the truth of the job market. All the "oh its not so bad, i have a job" peeps on here had inside connections or networked early during residency. For those who are faced with a true 'job search' then the above is an acurate picture of the job market (and pretty telling as its three dermpath fellows)....

That comment is unfair and perhaps a bit rude to those of us who have found decent jobs. You have no clue how folks found their jobs, and while some probably are what you said, others could just as well be appropriately qualified applicants that were a good fit and/or were willing to move.

For all the comments that continually pop up on here, the big recurring themes I see are:
1) Geographic restrictions (or lack thereof) are a huge factor.
2) Solid written/spoken English are essential.
3) The market is tough for current grads, but many do find something if they are not geographically restricting themselves.

Hyperbole, in either direction, does not serve a purpose, and implying that those of us who were successful are so because of inside connections or an inordinate amount of "networking" is hyperbole.

 

[longlakeboy]

It's a shame that we've reached the point where lacking geographical restrictions is just considered a necessity to finding a job. This has just become an accepted fact. Of course you'd have to look all over the freaking country to find a job.

I'm sorry, but name one other specialty where you can't find a job - even if it's not an ideal one - in any major city?

The fact that you can look in multiple large cities and not find one freaking job advertised is proof of what a **** job market this is.

 

[2121115]

'm sorry, but name one other specialty where you can't find a job - even if it's not an ideal one - in any major city?

Radiology, radiation oncology, ENT, ophthalmology. Just to name a few.

 

[ermonty]

That comment is unfair and perhaps a bit rude to those of us who have found decent jobs. You have no clue how folks found their jobs, and while some probably are what you said, others could just as well be appropriately qualified applicants that were a good fit and/or were willing to move.

For all the comments that continually pop up on here, the big recurring these I see are:
1) Geographic restrictions (or lack thereof) are a huge factor.
2) Solid written/spoken English are essential.
3) The market is tough for current grads, but many do find something if they are not geographically restricting themselves.

Hyperbole, in either direction, does not serve a purpose, and implying that those of us who were successful are so because of inside connections or an inordinate amount of "networking" is hyperbole.

No offense intended. I do agree that some applicants are successful at a traditional search and find a job without a connection. Good job with your success in that endeavor.

And I do agree with statement 3, Many (not all, not most...many, maybe more than just some) will find a job if they are not geographically resctricted.

More second hand info. Was just talking to the Chair of our department, who was away at another 'top' institution (think Ivy) recently giving a guest lectureship. Three of the fellows there are without a job at this point...in March. So much for applicants from top programs have no worries.

However, I do believe its gonna get better (at least in terms of demand). Its only a matter time before the sand glass turns and the aging generation of pathologists finally retire. The grass will be greener...next decade?

 

[Enkidu]

And I do agree with statement 3, Many (not all, not most...many, maybe more than just some) will find a job if they are not geographically resctricted.

Are you suggesting that many pathologists never find jobs anywhere in the country? That would be pretty dramatic, though I haven't heard anyone suggest that to be the case before you.

 

[rollwithit]

It's a shame that we've reached the point where lacking geographical restrictions is just considered a necessity to finding a job. This has just become an accepted fact. Of course you'd have to look all over the freaking country to find a job.

I'm sorry, but name one other specialty where you can't find a job - even if it's not an ideal one - in any major city?

The fact that you can look in multiple large cities and not find one freaking job advertised is proof of what a **** job market this is.

Pathology is unique in that you don't have to see the patient, part of the patient is being sent to you. That itself is going to create a vastly different dynamic for pathology compared to other specialties who actually have to meet with their patient. Because pathologists in City A can service patients in City B without a vastly different costs and inconveniences to the patient, City B may not always have a need for the amount of pathologists their population may otherwise suggest.

I'm not typing this to support that the job market is great or even just okay, but if you are going to be honest about the job market you have to first acknowledge that pathology is quite different than most specialties. I acknowledge that geographic restriction is always going to be a negative in the pathology job market due to its inherent nature. However, that itself shouldn't be the main factor in stating the job market is ****.

 

[mlw03]

Radiology, radiation oncology, ENT, ophthalmology. Just to name a few.

He beat me to this. I'd also add plenty of surgical subspecialists, ie pediatric thoracic surgery or ortho oncology. These jobs, like forensic path, are niche, and if you choose that career you have to accept you'll need to move to where the job is.

 

[longlakeboy]

Radiology, radiation oncology, ENT, ophthalmology. Just to name a few.

For what it's worth, did a search in a couple cities that I can't find a path job listed and found multiple advertised jobs in all of those except rad-onc. And forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't there an order of magnitude more path spots than rad-onc spots in residency?

Right now, there are very, very few jobs listed outside of the east coast and the west coast. The outlook for jobs in the midwest is comically barren. It's depressing.

 

[2121115]

For what it's worth, did a search in a couple cities that I can't find a path job listed and found multiple advertised jobs in all of those except rad-onc. And forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't there an order of magnitude more path spots than rad-onc spots in residency?

Right now, there are very, very few jobs listed outside of the east coast and the west coast. The outlook for jobs in the midwest is comically barren. It's depressing.

Your original comment wasn't accurate though. There are plenty of pathology jobs in major cities - they just aren't ideal. You said that you can't find a job, even one that is not ideal, in any major city. That just isn't true.

But if you are talking about good jobs, then we are in a similar boat as the specialties I mentioned.

 

[longlakeboy]

Your original comment wasn't accurate though. There are plenty of pathology jobs in major cities - they just aren't ideal. You said that you can't find a job, even one that is not ideal, in any major city. That just isn't true.

But if you are talking about good jobs, then we are in a similar boat as the specialties I mentioned.

Ah, crap. I mistyped. I meant in a major city, not any major city. You're right. The point I was trying to make was that there are some major cities without path jobs apparently available. But I failed to convey that.

 

[scienceguy19]

I've heard of jobs available for pathologists in academia with the pay less than a pathology assistant.

 

[mlw03]

This comment is peripherally related to this thread, but if folks think it's too off-topic we can start a new one. For those of you in good ol' diagnostic path that may be struggling to find jobs you like, have any of you considering some niche areas in path where the job market sounds stronger? I know most about FP, but I've also heard neuropath, peds path, blood banker, medical kidney, and clinical chemistry are generally better, although with huge geographic restrictions. Why or why not? Money? Job security? Genuine lack of interest in that area of medicine?

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

For what it's worth, did a search in a couple cities that I can't find a path job listed and found multiple advertised jobs in all of those except rad-onc. And forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't there an order of magnitude more path spots than rad-onc spots in residency?

Right now, there are very, very few jobs listed outside of the east coast and the west coast. The outlook for jobs in the midwest is comically barren. It's depressing.

The midwest is always barren. Ameripath is probably hiring though.

 

[BrainPathology]

Wait so now the midwest is barren? Wasn't it just two years ago that everyone was terrified that they would have to take a job in the midwest instead of on the coasts? Weren't there posts by all the usuals saying go get a cheap house in rinky-dinky KS or BFE NE or No One Lives here WY save up your money and prepare for the coming social apocalypse? Did so many people take those jobs in just two years that now the only jobs are in major coastal cities? And now we're complaining that there aren't enough jobs in Flyover country? Seriously?

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Wait so now the midwest is barren? Wasn't it just two years ago that everyone was terrified that they would have to take a job in the midwest instead of on the coasts? Weren't there posts by all the usuals saying go get a cheap house in rinky-dinky KS or BFE NE or No One Lives here WY save up your money and prepare for the coming social apocalypse? Did so many people take those jobs in just two years that now the only jobs are in major coastal cities? And now we're complaining that there aren't enough jobs in Flyover country? Seriously?

When did everyone start saying "Seriously?". I've noticed a lot of people doing this at work. Is it the new cool thang to do?

I like flyover country. The best college basketball is here in midwest.

 

[longlakeboy]

Wait so now the midwest is barren? Wasn't it just two years ago that everyone was terrified that they would have to take a job in the midwest instead of on the coasts? Weren't there posts by all the usuals saying go get a cheap house in rinky-dinky KS or BFE NE or No One Lives here WY save up your money and prepare for the coming social apocalypse? Did so many people take those jobs in just two years that now the only jobs are in major coastal cities? And now we're complaining that there aren't enough jobs in Flyover country? Seriously?

Right, because there are no major cities in "flyover country.". Because everyone would rather live in New Jersey than Chicago.

No, I'm talking exclusively about the lack of jobs in Aberdeen, South Dakota.

 

[malchik]

When did everyone start saying "Seriously?".

Around the same time everyone started saying "really?"
At least "it is what it is" is starting to drop off in usage.

 

[BrainPathology]

Right, because there are no major cities in "flyover country.". Because everyone would rather live in New Jersey than Chicago.

No, I'm talking exclusively about the lack of jobs in Aberdeen, South Dakota.

All my favorite cities are in flyover country as well.. if that's what you are saying and specifically in Chicago yes... I looked there too.. very very barren. Which is too bad. Chicago or Denver are both amazing cities for different reasons and getting a job in both places seems pretty hard right now.

 

[eddib]

The suggestion I heard was to have your 2nd fellowship lined up before you leave residency. Otherwise, looking for last minute openings when you find no jobs/during your first fellowship year is not ideal.

 

[Glass Pusher]

"I know most about FP, but I've also heard neuropath, peds path, blood banker, medical kidney, and clinical chemistry are generally better, although with huge geographic restrictions. Why or why not? Money? Job security? Genuine lack of interest in that area of medicine?"

I think for most it's a "No" for all three reasons. The first two are significant, but very few people have any interest in these fields that I know and I think the fellowship competitiveness for these would back that up.

"The suggestion I heard was to have your 2nd fellowship lined up before you leave residency. Otherwise, looking for last minute openings when you find no jobs/during your first fellowship year is not ideal."

This right here. When you're in your last year of residency and are supposed to have some feeling of accomplishment, the fact that you are encouraged have to spend more money and time applying to a fellowship you have no interest in completing makes you realize that you were very nieve, misinfomed or some combination of the two to go into this field in the first place.

 

[Enkidu]

"I know most about FP, but I've also heard neuropath, peds path, blood banker, medical kidney, and clinical chemistry are generally better, although with huge geographic restrictions. Why or why not? Money? Job security? Genuine lack of interest in that area of medicine?"

I think for most it's a "No" for all three reasons. The first two are significant, but very few people have any interest in these fields that I know and I think the fellowship competitiveness for these would back that up.

Interesting - I can understand the CP stuff and FP being uninteresting to some, just because they are quite a bit different, but why would neuropath, peds path, and renal be uninteresting? They are essentially just subspecialties of surgical pathology. What is it about them that people find boring? Also- are they compensated that much less than other subspecialties?

 

[twentyone]

For what it's worth, did a search in a couple cities that I can't find a path job listed and found multiple advertised jobs in all of those except rad-onc. And forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't there an order of magnitude more path spots than rad-onc spots in residency?

Right now, there are very, very few jobs listed outside of the east coast and the west coast. The outlook for jobs in the midwest is comically barren. It's depressing.

I would argue that any place that you could do a "search" online is not going to have any good jobs, if they list any at all, in pathology. If you're looking on pathology outllines, there are a few good academic jobs, but most of those listed are not ideal. Also, the back of journals, moster and the like, and head hunters are not going to have much to do wtih pathology either. Aside from some unique subspecialty websites, there is almost no advertising of jobs. That's the way patholgy goes.

Make friends with your attendings and the alumni from your program- that's where you'll find your job.

 

[pathstudent]

Interesting - I can understand the CP stuff and FP being uninteresting to some, just because they are quite a bit different, but why would neuropath, peds path, and renal be uninteresting? They are essentially just subspecialties of surgical pathology. What is it about them that people find boring? Also- are they compensated that much less than other subspecialties?

Medicare or insurance (which is variable based on the contract) pays the same for each CPT code regardless of the subspecialty. So it is more a question of volume. Those specialities may have less volume than other specialites. But since we are moving towards a system where we reward value of pathology over volume of pathology, it is possible that they could get more popular over time. Would you rather get paid X dollars from the ACO to look at a couple kidney biopsies a day or X dollars reading out a load of breast biopsies and lumpectomies.

The most popular specialties are the ones with the most specimens now because the more work you do, the more money you can make. But as we move to a system where pathologists are rewarded on value over volume, the most popular specialites will be the least busy ones as if you are making the same either way, you rather take the chill specialty.

 

[Glass Pusher]

Volume certainly plays a big role in the compensation along with the fact that these 3 fields are almost exclusively practiced in a big academic setting (which is a product of volume), but independently affects compensation potential with respect to other surgical subspecialties by a considerable amount.

Other than money, I can think of a few reasons:
Neuro: requisite 2-year fellowship, emphasis on research may deter people, neurosurgeons love to do frozens on weekends/late at night, significant exposure to autopsy
Peds: very limited set of peds specific tumors with lots of "boring" normal stuff, significant exposure to autopsy
Renal: Very limited exposure in residency to most, most residents are uncomfortable with EM, medical renal pathology seems foreign after spending so much time looking at tumors.

The autopsy parts are bolded because this probably prevents many from even considering these fields.

 

[Enkidu]

The autopsy parts are bolded because this probably prevents many from even considering these fields.

Interesting - but are autopsy cases that bad, just because they're autopsies? Brain cutting doesn't take more than a few minutes and the rest is just looking at the slides - and there are interesting neuro diseases to be found on autopsy too, it seems like.

I can't imagine that fetal autopsies can take particularly long either. Am I wrong about that? Though fetal autopsies sound pretty disgusting.