What is good about the match?

[atomi]

And yes, I have done a ton of research - basic science, clinical, translational, industry.

Mandatory research just encourages shoddier research and gives an enormous advantage to students at large, well-funded schools.

I can't believe it would produce any shoddier research than the current system where students are rewarded by ERAS simply by the number of research experiences and publications they have.

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[DermViser]

This happens ALL THE TIME. And it's getting worse. Passing was low 180s or something when I took it. We're talking about people afraid to apply for certain specialties because they are 50-60 points above average.

Yes, the USMLE has some value when you are talking about someone who passed by 1 point. But inasmuch as this is supposed to a P/F test, students interestingly have kept it that way by self-selecting. In recent years around 230 was the magic number you had to pass to feel comfortable applying for competitive specialties. Now it's getting to be around 240. I wouldn't be surprised to see averages in some specialties nearing 260 in 10-15 years..

For reference, back in 1991, the mean was 200. The mean now is like 227 (thus pushing up the scores for 1 standard deviation and 2 standard deviations), with the passing score being pushed up every few years bc of the increasing mean. However, the specialties have remained relatively the same. It's not like Ortho all of a sudden got harder.

 

[ChEMD]

I can't believe it would produce any shoddier research than the current system where students are rewarded by ERAS simply by the number of research experiences and publications they have.

Since when did program directors ever say they discriminate based on number of research experiences. This might be the weakest argument you've made. They report number of research experiences because it's a number and is an easy metric, but no one ever said it was a good one. Do you really think program directors can't adequately evaluate the quality of research applicants have conducted. To imply that residency positions are being handed out based on number of research experiences is silly.

 

[atomi]

I guess I just don't understand why you think it's such a sin to go into some of the competitive fields...seems kind of like bitterness to me, no offense.

You misunderstand me. Each field is great in its own way and the competitive ones are no exception. I believe each student is unique and has a certain field uniquely suited to his personality. The sin is when such students feel pigeon-holed into a specialty they are not as interested in because they only have a 229 or some nonsense.

 

[DermViser]

Dude, Step 1 is a level playing field. The availability of resources, ample time to prepare, and universal knowledge of its importance puts the responsibility squarely on the student. HMS and Hopkins don't hold the keys to some super secret qbank, and people on the islands who unfortunately couldn't get into US schools have a shot to redeem themselves with this test. It's very fair. Having students vey for research positions would make that the bottle-neck, and that would get less fair far quicker.

But now the question is whether the test is a useful way to assess a medical student's knowledge or if it predicts success as a resident. That data goes back and forth. I don't see any compelling reason to throw the USMLE scoring system out with the bathwater though.

Carribean schools are known to teach completely to the test during all of the first 2 years. U.S. medical schools usually do not teach to the test. PDs know very well how this is gamed by Carribean medical schools.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

You misunderstand me. Each field is great in its own way and the competitive ones are no exception. I believe each student is unique and has a certain field uniquely suited to his personality. The sin is when such students feel pigeon-holed into a specialty they are not as interested in because they only have a 229 or some nonsense.

Yeah, that does kinda suck. But, then again, I hate to sound trite.... but life's not fair. I went into med school dead set on ophthalmology. When my first semester grades were not all A's, I realized that I had best find something else I liked.

 

[atomi]

Do you really think program directors can't adequately evaluate the quality of research applicants have conducted. To imply that residency positions are being handed out based on number of research experiences is silly.

I'll wait for dermviser to back me up on this, but my understanding is that it is common in derm for students to submit as many articles, case reports, whatever, as they can before the ERAS deadline. Even if they are not accepted, they increase their number, and often PDs will just see this number when it comes to making the rank list. I think there have been articles calling them out on this, but nothing has really changed. No selection committee is going to read a first author paper from every student to evaluate its quality. They are going to look at the number, ask about it during the interview (maybe) to see if they can back it up and not sound idiotic, and then gauge its value based on the type of experience it was and what kind of publication it produced, not the quality. Submitted articles obviously carry less weight than accepted articles, but they still count, and everyone knows that. If they were interviewing a handful of candidates for a single position, maybe. But interviewing 40 people to rank for 3 slots? Forget it.

 

[Kaputt]

It's my fault for falling for Wordead's red herring. The issue is that the USMLE has too much influence on career choice. Not how good of a program you will match at, but into which specialty entirely. We could take some of the importance off it by simply using a different scoring system with score bands and where you max out your score beyond a certain point if you don't want to go all the way pass/fail. This would hopefully prevent the nonsense of a 229 getting screened while a 231 matches.

Some alternate scoring system, or combining Step 1 and Step 2 (so as to make it the exam as a whole more clinically relevant), would be an interesting idea. Or moving all med schools into a 1.5 preclinical model and you take a Super Step (hybrid of Step 1 and Step 2) after the clinical year. But the idea of completely stripping the USMLE of its comparative power would be rough on the applicants. It would just shift the arms race in a more subjective direction.

Carribean schools are known to teach completely to the test during all of the first 2 years. U.S. medical schools usually do not teach to the test. PDs know very well how this is gamed by Carribean medical schools.

Well obviously. I don't argue that point. PDs are well aware of the Step 1 gamesmanship that Caribbean places attempt. But if you took out their one chance to excel on the same playing field as US grads, they'd have even less hope in distinguishing themselves. What would a Caribbean grad have to help them stand out if Step 1 was pass/fail? Their letters of rec, evaluations, dean's letter, and grades hardly carry the same weight as those from a student in a respected US institution.

 

[atomi]

Well obviously. I don't argue that point. PDs are well aware of the Step 1 gamesmanship that Caribbean places attempt. But if you took out their one chance to excel on the same playing field as US grads, they'd have even less hope in distinguishing themselves. What would a Caribbean grad have to help them stand out if Step 1 was pass/fail? Their letters of rec, evaluations, dean's letter, and grades hardly carry the same weight as those from a student in a respected US institution.

The end of Caribbean medical schools wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

 

[DermViser]

Well obviously. I don't argue that point. PDs are well aware of the Step 1 gamesmanship that Caribbean places attempt. But if you took out their one chance to excel on the same playing field as US grads, they'd have even less hope in distinguishing themselves. What would a Caribbean grad have to help them stand out if Step 1 was pass/fail? Their letters of rec, evaluations, dean's letter, and grades hardly carry the same weight as those from a student in a respected US institution.

If a Carribean student gets a 240 (which since Carribean schools are completely focused on Step 1 for all it's teaching you should be able to do so), there are still specialties shut out for the Carribean student. Mind you I believe Carribean medical schools should be shut down, but that's a story for another day.

 

[PL198]

I don't see anything more objective than step 1. Everything else you could possibly use to judge students is about 10x more subjective. Whether we like it or not, step 1 is definitely the most level possibility for all students.

 

[PL198]

If a Carribean student gets a 240 (which since Carribean schools are completely focused on Step 1 for all it's teaching you should be able to do so), there are still specialties shut out for the Carribean student. Mind you I believe Carribean medical schools should be shut down, but that's a story for another day.

Ok but that's different. That's an exception which make up a small percentage of the people in the US system. Everyone is well aware of how they "game" step 1, so their scores are taken with a grain of salt and all is well.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

If a Carribean student gets a 240 (which since Carribean schools are completely focused on Step 1 for all it's teaching you should be able to do so), there are still specialties shut out for the Carribean student. Mind you I believe Carribean medical schools should be shut down, but that's a story for another day.

If not shut down, at least barred from qualifying for US student loans

 

[DermViser]

If not shut down, at least barred from qualifying for US student loans

I agree. Part of the reason that PDs can't look at USMLE Step 1 scores as objective metrics for Carribean students is bc their entire curriculums revolve around the USMLE Step 1, unlike U.S. medical schools. They're complete profit centers at its core, owned by the same people (DeVry) who own the University of Phoenix. It's no different than IMGs that take years to study for the Steps and blow it out of the water. The Step no longer carries the value it had before in these cases, and is not an accurate insight into the knowledge base of the candidate.

 

[Kaputt]

The end of Caribbean medical schools wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

No argument there but I pity the people who get swindled into it

 

[Kaputt]

I agree. Part of the reason that PDs can't look at USMLE Step 1 scores as objective metrics for Carribean students is bc their entire curriculums revolve around the USMLE Step 1, unlike U.S. medical schools. They're complete profit centers at its core, owned by the same people (DeVry) who own the University of Phoenix. It's no different than IMGs that take years to study for the Steps and blow it out of the water. The Step no longer carries the value it had before in these cases, and is not an accurate insight into the knowledge base of the candidate.

But, there are programs that will never consider IMGs or Carib grads. IMGs and Caribs aren't really ever competing with US grads for the same spots (they'll only ever get spots we don't want), so our Step 1 scores aren't really compared to theirs.

 

[DermViser]

Some alternate scoring system, or combining Step 1 and Step 2 (so as to make it the exam as a whole more clinically relevant), would be an interesting idea. Or moving all med schools into a 1.5 preclinical model and you take a Super Step (hybrid of Step 1 and Step 2) after the clinical year. But the idea of completely stripping the USMLE of its comparative power would be rough on the applicants. It would just shift the arms race in a more subjective direction.

Right now as it is, USMLE Step 1, is the metric used, MAINLY bc USMLE Step 2 CK is taken way too late to make a difference. Not to mention, most do better on USMLE Step 2 CK than Step 1 bc it's very clinically relevant and students have had practice with taking shelf exams. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main issue that @atomi has is the role that the Step 1 score plays in specialty selection. For example, someone who at the end of MS-2 gets a 240 and is "all of a sudden" feigns interest in a lifestyle specialty like Derm or Ophtho, yet had no true interest in pursuing it as an MS-1 or during MS-2 (by doing research in the summer, for example). The score is the driver for specialty selection, which even you must admit is quite perverse.

 

[DermViser]

But, there are programs that will never consider IMGs or Carib grads. IMGs and Caribs aren't really ever competing with US grads for the same spots (they'll only ever get spots we don't want), so our Step 1 scores aren't really compared to theirs.

Depends on the specialty. For example, there are Radiology residencies that take IMGs, usually due to location, being a community program, etc.

 

[PL198]

Right now as it is, USMLE Step 1, is the metric used, MAINLY bc USMLE Step 2 CK is taken way too late to make a difference. Not to mention, most do better on USMLE Step 2 CK than Step 1 bc it's very clinically relevant and students have had practice with taking shelf exams. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main issue that @atomi has is the role that the Step 1 score plays in specialty selection. For example, someone who at the end of MS-2 gets a 240 and is "all of a sudden" feigns interest in a lifestyle specialty like Derm or Ophtho, yet had no true interest in pursuing it as an MS-1 or during MS-2 (by doing research in the summer, for example). The score is the driver for specialty selection, which even you must admit is quite perverse.

I wouldn't say it's the guide for selection, more in that it either opens or closes possibilities that a student might have previously thought not possible. Personally, I hate the fact that 30 people in my class say they are gonna do ortho, even though obviously it's very difficult to do. Due to it's difficulty, I'd personally never assume I had a chance at doing ortho, unless I got a great step 1 score. Now I'm not going to try to get a high step 1 score to do ortho, however if I end up at the ortho average or higher, I'm certainly going to re-evaluate and look at it. I wouldn't say that's selecting for me, just that it's giving me a new outlook. I think it's foolish to assume someone can do the uber competitive specialties until they get a good score. I'd say 90 percent of my class says what they want to go into is a top 5 for most competitive... Personally not my thing, so I'm going to see how well I can do, and then see what is likely possible from there...

Just my take.

 

[DermViser]

I wouldn't say it's the guide for selection, more in that it either opens or closes possibilities that a student might have previously thought not possible. Personally, I hate the fact that 30 people in my class say they are gonna do ortho, even though obviously it's very difficult to do. Due to it's difficulty, I'd personally never assume I had a chance at doing ortho, unless I got a great step 1 score. Now I'm not going to try to get a high step 1 score to do ortho, however if I end up at the ortho average or higher, I'm certainly going to re-evaluate and look at it. I wouldn't say that's selecting for me, just that it's giving me a new outlook. I think it's foolish to assume someone can do the uber competitive specialties until they get a good score. I'd say 90 percent of my class says what they want to go into is a top 5 for most competitive... Personally not my thing, so I'm going to see how well I can do, and then see what is likely possible from there...

Just my take.

Ironically enough, in the past those at the bottom of the med school class (and thus couldn't get into General Surgery), and who wanted to do surgery, did Ortho. Now it's one of the most competitive. It's not like suddenly Ortho became difficult as a specialty.

 

[ChEMD]

I'll wait for dermviser to back me up on this, but my understanding is that it is common in derm for students to submit as many articles, case reports, whatever, as they can before the ERAS deadline. Even if they are not accepted, they increase their number, and often PDs will just see this number when it comes to making the rank list. I think there have been articles calling them out on this, but nothing has really changed. No selection committee is going to read a first author paper from every student to evaluate its quality. They are going to look at the number, ask about it during the interview (maybe) to see if they can back it up and not sound idiotic, and then gauge its value based on the type of experience it was and what kind of publication it produced, not the quality. Submitted articles obviously carry less weight than accepted articles, but they still count, and everyone knows that. If they were interviewing a handful of candidates for a single position, maybe. But interviewing 40 people to rank for 3 slots? Forget it.

Number of first author papers is definitely different than number of research experiences, which may include multiple abstracts, presentations, etc. from one project.

 

[DermViser]

Exactly. Students I went to school with that relied on the school's advice to not study for step 1 during M1 and M2 and trust the curriculum got burned bad. Their low step 1 in no way indicates that they slacked off M1 and M2. They were often putting in many more hours trying to drink from the firehose as much as possible while their classmates were skipping class and studying FA and pathoma instead. The P=MD crowd were more often the closet gunners trying to keep their step 1 studying a secret knowing that the school exams were pointless while their naive but well-intentioned and hardworking classmates slaved away in front of class coursepacks.

Wow, I can't believe an American med school would give such ridiculously bad advice to their students. On second thought, yes I can, considering how deluded some Student Affairs offices can be when it comes to giving any advice on any topic. Definitely not surprised at your last sentence.

 

[DermViser]

Yeah, that does kinda suck. But, then again, I hate to sound trite.... but life's not fair. I went into med school dead set on ophthalmology. When my first semester grades were not all A's, I realized that I had best find something else I liked.

One doesn't have to get all "A's" in everything to get Ophtho, much less really any competitive specialty, but I digress. At the rate things are going, I'm sure NPs will come up with some Ophtho NP fellowship, anyways.

 

[Kaputt]

Depends on the specialty. For example, there are Radiology residencies that take IMGs, usually due to location, being a community program, etc.

Radiology residencies that take IMGs only do so if they can't fill with American grads. Exceptions being European grads, who can get spots at top programs.

 

[Kaputt]

I wouldn't say it's the guide for selection, more in that it either opens or closes possibilities that a student might have previously thought not possible. Personally, I hate the fact that 30 people in my class say they are gonna do ortho, even though obviously it's very difficult to do. Due to it's difficulty, I'd personally never assume I had a chance at doing ortho, unless I got a great step 1 score. Now I'm not going to try to get a high step 1 score to do ortho, however if I end up at the ortho average or higher, I'm certainly going to re-evaluate and look at it. I wouldn't say that's selecting for me, just that it's giving me a new outlook. I think it's foolish to assume someone can do the uber competitive specialties until they get a good score. I'd say 90 percent of my class says what they want to go into is a top 5 for most competitive... Personally not my thing, so I'm going to see how well I can do, and then see what is likely possible from there...

Just my take.

I agree with all of this. I was a very noncommited preclinical student. No idea what I wanted to do. Figured it would be a waste of time to invest much interest or time into any one specialty before I knew if I was even competitive for it. Once I got my Step 1 score back, which was high enough to enter any field, I started shopping around. I think a lot of people are like that...they wait to see what their options are once they've taken the test.

 

[DermViser]

Radiology residencies that take IMGs only do so if they can't fill with American grads. Exceptions being European grads, who can get spots at top programs.

I'm talking about the ones that consistently fill with Carribean grads and IMGs.

 

[greg1184]

USMLE should be no different than the bar exam, you should receive a pass or fail. It is supposed to be a licensing exam. There is also profound variation between the amount of prep time and resources given by schools. In my experience, state schools emphasize the test highly, including NBMEs with the curriculum, teaching to the test, and giving more than 4-5 weeks prep time. In contrast, most top 10 schools give minimal prep time and do not necessarily teach toward the exam. They mainly operate on the assumption that "you guys are all smart and will figure it out." It is seen as a great equalizer between schools, but in reality the environment in which the score was generated is radically different. This is why so many IMGs have 270+ given that they can prepare for each exam for about a year beforehand.

Right now as it is, USMLE Step 1, is the metric used, MAINLY bc USMLE Step 2 CK is taken way too late to make a difference. Not to mention, most do better on USMLE Step 2 CK than Step 1 bc it's very clinically relevant and students have had practice with taking shelf exams. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main issue that @atomi has is the role that the Step 1 score plays in specialty selection. For example, someone who at the end of MS-2 gets a 240 and is "all of a sudden" feigns interest in a lifestyle specialty like Derm or Ophtho, yet had no true interest in pursuing it as an MS-1 or during MS-2 (by doing research in the summer, for example). The score is the driver for specialty selection, which even you must admit is quite perverse.

I have no problem with an exam being used as a competitive entity. In my opinion, if that is going to be the case, then the pass/fail facade should be removed and you should be able to take the exam a (limited) amount of times. Hell, change the name of Step 1 to the USMAT, which is the name I like to call it.

 

[BMADED]

Hi guys,

I am an IM(not G yet)...
Anyways, I finished my basic sciences in the Caribbean and am currently studying to take step 1 in December. I was talking to my friend and he told me I would have to wait a whole year for the Match if I take step 1 in December (he said the latest to catch the 2016 match date is October -- is this true?)

My question is where can I find a timeline with important dates for the 2016 Match date? Like when I should be doing what...and so forth. I am so anxious because I always feel like I am missing something.

Okay thanks.
Responses to my inquiry will be much appreciated.

 

[DermViser]

I have no problem with an exam being used as a competitive entity. In my opinion, if that is going to be the case, then the pass/fail facade should be removed and you should be able to take the exam a (limited) amount of times. Hell, change the name of Step 1 to the USMAT, which is the name I like to call it.

But then how are medical students supposed to feel good about themselves if you can retake it? The whole point is that those with less than a 250 on Step 1 are supposed to wear the number as a scarlet letter.

 

[greg1184]

But then how are medical students supposed to feel good about themselves if you can retake it? The whole point is that those with less than a 250 on Step 1 are supposed to wear the number as a scarlet letter.

Hehe brilliant minds think alike. if you read my past posts I always called the step 1 score the scarlet number.

 

[DermViser]

Hehe brilliant minds think alike. if you read my past posts I always called the step 1 score the scarlet number.

How funny! Or get a Tattoo with their three digit/two digit score.

Only in the medical school world, does a test score encompass so much beyond multiple choice testing. It's one's intelligence, smarts, predictor of clerkship performance, residency performance whether one will get married or have kids all wrapped into one. No need for nuance. It's a black and white world we live in.

 

[PL198]

If I get a 250+ on step 1, you better fkin believe I'm getting that **** tattooed onto my body.

 

[Kaputt]

I'm talking about the ones that consistently fill with Carribean grads and IMGs.

Yeah, those places don't prefer to take IMGs, they just have to. If American grads wanted those spots, they'd have them.

 

[atomi]

Only in the medical school world, does a test score encompass so much beyond multiple choice testing. It's one's intelligence, smarts, predictor of clerkship performance, residency performance whether one will get married or have kids all wrapped into one. No need for nuance. It's a black and white world we live in.

Yet, once you finish residency it doesn't matter a single bit.

Yeah, those places don't prefer to take IMGs, they just have to. If American grads wanted those spots, they'd have them.

I remembering interviewing at one program with the PD said he intentionally tries to make the class diverse and ranks so as to get a mix of USMDs, DOs, IMGs, and FMGs. The assumption was that he could fill it all with USMDs if he wanted.

 

[PL198]

Yet, once you finish residency it doesn't matter a single bit.



I remembering interviewing at one program with the PD said he intentionally tries to make the class diverse and ranks so as to get a mix of USMDs, DOs, IMGs, and FMGs. The assumption was that he could fill it all with USMDs if he wanted.

That's hilarious. "Oh hey I'm just going to take people that are regarded as slightly less desirable nationwide, just to mix the pot up a little."

http://cdn01.cdnwp.celebuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/14/jennifer-lawrence-10.gif

 

[maxxor]

A community TY program I interviewed at had a similar story. They recruited FMGs from Chile/Argentina to be the IM house-staff and hyper-competitive aspiring ophthos, derms, radiologists, and radoncs to be the TY interns.

 

[Kaputt]

I remembering interviewing at one program with the PD said he intentionally tries to make the class diverse and ranks so as to get a mix of USMDs, DOs, IMGs, and FMGs. The assumption was that he could fill it all with USMDs if he wanted.

Largely the exception rather than the rule, though. Radiology is the field I know best, and no top/competitive programs have any DO or Caribbean grads. Some European FMGs make it in, or some stacked FMGs from other places.

A community TY program I interviewed at had a similar story. They recruited FMGs from Chile/Argentina to be the IM house-staff and hyper-competitive aspiring ophthos, derms, radiologists, and radoncs to be the TY interns.

Well yeah, community hospitals with competitive TYs routinely do that. The IM program gets FMGs who have done internships and residencies in their home countries and have lots of experience and can run the wards by themselves, and TY program gets the superstar US MDs as interns.

 

[Psai]

Yet, once you finish residency it doesn't matter a single bit.



I remembering interviewing at one program with the PD said he intentionally tries to make the class diverse and ranks so as to get a mix of USMDs, DOs, IMGs, and FMGs. The assumption was that he could fill it all with USMDs if he wanted.

Diversity for what? Intelligence?

 

[Sephiroth]

Ironically enough, in the past those at the bottom of the med school class (and thus couldn't get into General Surgery), and who wanted to do surgery, did Ortho. Now it's one of the most competitive. It's not like suddenly Ortho became difficult as a specialty.

I recall being told that years back when the field wasn't as advanced, radonc was the specialty that lots of foreign grads got stuck into as few US grads wanted it.

I agree with all of this. I was a very noncommited preclinical student. No idea what I wanted to do. Figured it would be a waste of time to invest much interest or time into any one specialty before I knew if I was even competitive for it. Once I got my Step 1 score back, which was high enough to enter any field, I started shopping around. I think a lot of people are like that...they wait to see what their options are once they've taken the test.

I've been taking the approach to prepare for the most competitive specialty I want, then I'll reassess after I get my Step 1 score back to decide if I need to change things.

 

[DermViser]

I recall being told that years back when the field wasn't as advanced, radonc was the specialty that lots of foreign grads got stuck into as few US grads wanted it.

I've been taking the approach to prepare for the most competitive specialty I want, then I'll reassess after I get my Step 1 score back to decide if I need to change things.

You're very much correct. It used to be called Therapeutic Radiology back then. I don't know about advanced, but back then lifestyle was not a huge issue for medical students. People went into something bc they liked the intellectual material. Fields like Radiology and Rad Onc were then filled by IMGs. Your approach is probably best. Depending on the specialty you may or may not prepare in advance by doing research, but it's good to assess after Step 1 comes back.

 

[DermViser]

I'll wait for dermviser to back me up on this, but my understanding is that it is common in derm for students to submit as many articles, case reports, whatever, as they can before the ERAS deadline. Even if they are not accepted, they increase their number, and often PDs will just see this number when it comes to making the rank list. I think there have been articles calling them out on this, but nothing has really changed. No selection committee is going to read a first author paper from every student to evaluate its quality. They are going to look at the number, ask about it during the interview (maybe) to see if they can back it up and not sound idiotic, and then gauge its value based on the type of experience it was and what kind of publication it produced, not the quality. Submitted articles obviously carry less weight than accepted articles, but they still count, and everyone knows that. If they were interviewing a handful of candidates for a single position, maybe. But interviewing 40 people to rank for 3 slots? Forget it.

For Derm, yes it works that way. On the ERAS application, you can list publications accepted and those submitted. There was an article on it awhile back regarding this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=22301038

It's not shocking to me though. Once people match to a specialty, it's not at all surprising that the applicant no longer cares, so drops working on revisions to manuscripts submitted to get them published. It's impossible in the time frame sometimes to actually have an original manuscript published without requiring cycles of revision.

 

[BobbyB]

If I get a 250+ on step 1, you better fkin believe I'm getting that **** tattooed onto my body.

license plate that score "PL264MD"

 

[PL198]

license plate that score "PL264MD"

Hah PL refers to a lifting related thing and 198 is a weight class in that, but I pray 198 isn't my score.

 

[VCorp]

Just curious, but if a US-IMG student didn't match one year, what're the chances he'll match the second year, ESPECIALLY if he didn't do anything to improve his application through the year. Have a friend that applied to places, but didn't have his CS score in.

 

[PL198]

Just curious, but if a US-IMG student didn't match one year, what're the chances he'll match the second year, ESPECIALLY if he didn't do anything to improve his application through the year. Have a friend that applied to places, but didn't have his CS score in.

Like 0. I feel like not matching your first year is like being shunned. Couple that with being IMG doing nothing, don't really see why any program is going to take them. No one wanted them before, and anything that has happened since then has had a negative outlook on their app. Not sure why a new result would be expected.

 

[VCorp]

Like 0. I feel like not matching your first year is like being shunned. Couple that with being IMG doing nothing, don't really see why any program is going to take them. No one wanted them before, and anything that has happened since then has had a negative outlook on their app. Not sure why a new result would be expected.

I see. I was trying to give them hope by saying atleast they have their CS score now, and for the next match year they should be squared away and ready to go now. Was suggesting to take Step 3 and get it out of the way since they're done with MS now, but she's stubborn and think it's pointless. I guess if I were in her shoes I'd take that year off do some research, observerships, take S3, and do whatever else I can to bolster my application.

 

[VCorp]

If a Carribean student gets a 240 (which since Carribean schools are completely focused on Step 1 for all it's teaching you should be able to do so), there are still specialties shut out for the Carribean student. Mind you I believe Carribean medical schools should be shut down, but that's a story for another day.

As an individual who went to the Caribbean's for ms, I'm interested in hearing your views as to why they should be shut down. Not to get into an e-fight, but just interested in hearing your opinion.

 

[PL198]

As an individual who went to the Caribbean's for ms, I'm interested in hearing your views as to why they should be shut down. Not to get into an e-fight, but just interested in hearing your opinion.

Probably because they run for profit and are cut-throat and basically just teach to get standardized scores and selectively weed out applicants to make themselves look better. However, TBH I kinda approve of it. It's a competitive system for people that failed out of US school, or couldn't get in. Either person still gets a shot, they just have to work their tail off to keep it. Fine by me. I think a lot of people go into the carribean with false hopes though. Down there, it's like the Hunger Games of medical school, when I think most treat it like a normal US school. No way Jose.

 

[VCorp]

Probably because they run for profit and are cut-throat and basically just teach to get standardized scores and selectively weed out applicants to make themselves look better. However, TBH I kinda approve of it. It's a competitive system for people that failed out of US school, or couldn't get in. Either person still gets a shot, they just have to work their tail off to keep it. Fine by me. I think a lot of people go into the carribean with false hopes though. Down there, it's like the Hunger Games of medical school, when I think most treat it like a normal US school. No way Jose.

Yeah, the attrition rate is crazy. I remember on day 1 we had 110. Within the first few weeks we lost probably 5-6 students. Most weren't capable of acclimating to the surrounding, which is understandable. However, as the semesters progressed, more started to drop. By graduation day, we were down to 60 bodies. Crazy.

 

[PL198]

Yeah, the attrition rate is crazy. I remember on day 1 we had 110. Within the first few weeks we lost probably 5-6 students. Most weren't capable of acclimating to the surrounding, which is understandable. However, as the semesters progressed, more started to drop. By graduation day, we were down to 60 bodies. Crazy.

How many of those matched? Just curious.