What Dictates Salary?

[chrisj1982]

I promise, this isn't another, "how much do pods get paid?" thread.

As I'm sure we're all aware, the salary range for podiatry is quite large. How does one get themselves on the upper end of that range?

Is it surgery fellowships after residency? Additionally, are there sub-specialties within podiatric medicine that are more lucrative? i.e. cardiology for md/do's.

I'm currently an attorney leaving my job to finish up my pre-med pre-reqs and apply to school. I'm giving up a hefty salary and many years of my life to follow my dreams of practicing medicine, so please don't let this thread paint me as only concerned about dollar bills in my pocket

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[zdlamkin8195]

I am interested to see any input on this as well...I also am leaving a good salary to go back to school (DMU in the fall) and hate to see that all of the figures that I see for salaries online of all different types of healthcare professionals that are WAY off from what I have seen through my experience in healthcare....And never trust what any professional organization or the BLS.gov says that its "avg" is for the given profession....neither are trustworthy

 

[chrisj1982]

I am interested to see any input on this as well...I also am leaving a good salary to go back to school (DMU in the fall) and hate to see that all of the figures that I see for salaries online of all different types of healthcare professionals that are WAY off from what I have seen through my experience in healthcare....And never trust what any professional organization or the BLS.gov says that its "avg" is for the given profession....neither are trustworthy

What is your experience in healthcare? Do you have a ballpark salary range that you've personally seen for pods?

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

What is your experience in healthcare? Do you have a ballpark salary range that you've personally seen for pods?

Pods make so much $$$$ check out this video! Look at his house, his car, his YACHT!! Man! Pods are millionaires! Plus he has a loving wife that cooks breakfast for him!


[YOUTUBE]nhD2AWiB0kE[/YOUTUBE]

 

[DrRock44]

I am interested to see any input on this as well...I also am leaving a good salary to go back to school (DMU in the fall) and hate to see that all of the figures that I see for salaries online of all different types of healthcare professionals that are WAY off from what I have seen through my experience in healthcare....And never trust what any professional organization or the BLS.gov says that its "avg" is for the given profession....neither are trustworthy

From what I have gathered, all of this info is pretty poorly presented. Usually an insignificant sample size. Some pods (esp women with kids types) only work part time, where most other specialties are mostly full time. Just putting those two together could give you wacky numbers that don't reflect actual earning potential. Also, I have seen numbers reported as revenue and not net income, which are 2 TOTALLY different things. [I was a business major and have a piece of paper from my school saying I know about this stuff]

I have 3 cousins who are DPMs and went to the same school and residency and all make different amounts of money. One hasn't done surgery in years, another does tons, another works for the state and the VA. ALL LIVE VERY COMFORTABLY.

One of the things you should know about getting into podiatry is that you will not make $600,000 a year. There is a range of about $50,000-$350,000 which is huge. there are many factors such as location, saturation and specialization (not in the medical sense but the business sense) that ultimately determine how much you make. One of the things about podiatry that is great is the lifestyle, which has a non-material value that should be factored in as well.

The bottom line is that your EARNING POTENTIAL as a podiatrist is high, but you [and some external factors] will determine how much of that you will capitalize on.

 

[Ferocity]

from what i have gathered, all of this info is pretty poorly presented. Usually an insignificant sample size. Some pods (esp women with kids types) only work part time, where most other specialties are mostly full time. Just putting those two together could give you wacky numbers that don't reflect actual earning potential. Also, i have seen numbers reported as revenue and not net income, which are 2 totally different things. [i was a business major and have a piece of paper from my school saying i know about this stuff]

i have 3 cousins who are dpms and went to the same school and residency and all make different amounts of money. One hasn't done surgery in years, another does tons, another works for the state and the va. All live very comfortably.

One of the things you should know about getting into podiatry is that you will not make $600,000 a year. There is a range of about $50,000-$350,000 which is huge. There are many factors such as location, saturation and specialization (not in the medical sense but the business sense) that ultimately determine how much you make. One of the things about podiatry that is great is the lifestyle, which has a non-material value that should be factored in as well.

The bottom line is that your earning potential as a podiatrist is high, but you [and some external factors] will determine how much of that you will capitalize on.

+1

 

[zdlamkin8195]

Pods make so much $$$$ check out this video! Look at his house, his car, his YACHT!! Man! Pods are millionaires! Plus he has a loving wife that cooks breakfast for him!


[YOUTUBE]nhD2AWiB0kE[/YOUTUBE]

Haha, I've been working on the "wife that cooks breakfast for him" part atleast! Lol

 

[PADPM]

There are many factors, including, but not limited to;

1) the quality of your training
2) the unique skills you bring to a practice
3) your demeanor/personality
4) your work ethic
5) the quality of the insurance carriers in your area
6) your rapport with PCPs and other medical professionals in your area
7) patient satisfaction and end results
8) the geographic area where you practice
9) the demographics of your practice
10) the generosity of your employer
11) luck

There are many more, but that's a quick list.

 

[chrisj1982]

From what I have gathered, all of this info is pretty poorly presented. Usually an insignificant sample size. Some pods (esp women with kids types) only work part time, where most other specialties are mostly full time. Just putting those two together could give you wacky numbers that don't reflect actual earning potential. Also, I have seen numbers reported as revenue and not net income, which are 2 TOTALLY different things. [I was a business major and have a piece of paper from my school saying I know about this stuff]

I have 3 cousins who are DPMs and went to the same school and residency and all make different amounts of money. One hasn't done surgery in years, another does tons, another works for the state and the VA. ALL LIVE VERY COMFORTABLY.

One of the things you should know about getting into podiatry is that you will not make $600,000 a year. There is a range of about $50,000-$350,000 which is huge. there are many factors such as location, saturation and specialization (not in the medical sense but the business sense) that ultimately determine how much you make. One of the things about podiatry that is great is the lifestyle, which has a non-material value that should be factored in as well.

The bottom line is that your EARNING POTENTIAL as a podiatrist is high, but you [and some external factors] will determine how much of that you will capitalize on.

Thank you for that detailed explanation. Can you further expand on the "great" lifestyle? As someone coming from an 80-hour a week corporate law office, an improvement in lifestyle is desireable.

Additionally, do pods have the opportunities to give back and serve in 3rd world communities the way md/do's do?

 

[zdlamkin8195]

What is your experience in healthcare? Do you have a ballpark salary range that you've personally seen for pods?

I have my CNIM, and work in spine and brain surgeries performing neurological monitoring for local surgeons. I don't work with Pods, but I have worked with several Neuro/Ortho spine groups and have been around several pods at the local surgery centers. I have also shadowed several pods that practice in many different ways, as well as talked to several Pod residents in order to make sure that going to Pod school was what I wanted to do. I have never seen any contracts or W-2's but I did explain to them that in my field you can earn $55k-85k on a 3/4 day work week fairly easily, and was looking for how they felt about the desicion I was making. Most of them said something along the lines of "they would do it, but it may take a while to catch up and it won't be easy."
As an investment, MD/DO with an in demand surgical residency/fellowship will have a greater return. Those things will also take many years and be HIGHLY competitive. Some of those specialties, such as spine, also will make you have surgeries that aren't quick. An average surgery where I work now is 3-4 hours. I am CHOOSING to do Pod school because I feel that I can realistically work in the south or Midwest and earn somewhere between $120-$200k as long as I bust my ass through school and building my practice (hopefully). I can't speak for any other areas of the US or situations though....I post on here bc I feel like I have been afforded the ability to get a VERY in depth look into the real world of healthcare and want to get the info to everyone that may be on SDN researching future careers as I was when I was a college kid who didn't have a clue about anything....
Also, I also tend to warn against using the BLS.gov website and professional organizations to get reasonable ideas for potential salary information. First, the BLS.gov info is based of what those professionals report to the government. As we know, people have many tricks to keep those numbers in the most beneficial spot for themselves in order to keep Uncle Sam out of the way. The BLS.gov also is a government operation and is known for having many errors. For example, imagine how it impacts earnings if several physicians office assistants are filed as a "physicians assistants"? Several NP's are filed as "nurses?" Secondly, professional organizations will list the best possible figures to the public to shed a positive light on the profession or to keep a negative light from being cast on it. I imagine that the APMA posts the "average salary" from data that was collected in a way that intentionally gets a high average (like leaving out younger - and lower paid- podiatrist salaries out). I've also seen some professional associations (other than podiatry) that also seem to shoot the numbers lower to take the heat off of what kind of money their members can bring in. If you think a safe range for the average podiatrist is $190k or the average PA-C is $75k based off of their respective governing bodies, then you open yourself up to be disappointed.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope this helps...

 

[Life Sucks]

This is why I'm interested in Podiatry a little more than Allopathic medicine. One works 80+ hrs a week, one works like a normal human being and can have a life.

 

[PADPM]

That all depends on your situation. I can tell you that my partners, associates and I ALL work a very long workweek. Much longer than many of my allopathic friends. There is no one size fits all answer. I know pods and other docs who work 15 hours a week and some who work 65 or more.

I believe that the "easier" workweek or lifestyle of a pod is an urban legend. It depends on you, how busy your practice is and how hard you want to work.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

That all depends on your situation. I can tell you that my partners, associates and I ALL work a very long workweek. Much longer than many of my allopathic friends. There is no one size fits all answer. I know pods and other docs who work 15 hours a week and some who work 65 or more.

I believe that the "easier" workweek or lifestyle of a pod is an urban legend. It depends on you, how busy your practice is and how hard you want to work.

The pod I shadow works Monday-Friday normal business hours, and usually take 1.5 hours for lunch. Comes in around 8:15, leaves before/at 4:30 every day.

Also, he doesn't work every Friday (at least the afternoons). He is in the OR most Wednesdays. He has to go in for call about once a month. He does very well for himself, he owns the clinic, drives a nice car, and takes somewhat regular vacations.

 

[DrRock44]

Every school I have interviewed at has some sort of annual trip where they go to a third world country. I don't know any pods who are in practice that do that type of stuff.

 

[PADPM]

The pod I shadow works Monday-Friday normal business hours, and usually take 1.5 hours for lunch. Comes in around 8:15, leaves before/at 4:30 every day.

Also, he doesn't work every Friday (at least the afternoons). He is in the OR most Wednesdays. He has to go in for call about once a month. He does very well for himself, he owns the clinic, drives a nice car, and takes somewhat regular vacations.

As I've stated many times, each practice is different. We have hours until 7 PM during the week and we are open weekends. We wouldn't be if we weren't busy. We want to see working professionals and students, and both of those groups often have a hard time coming to the office prior to 4-4:30. We treat high school athletes who have sporting events or practice and need to be seen later in the day. Yes, we can close earlier and have someone leave work early, have a student leave school, an athlete miss practice, etc.

I have to presume that ours practice is the busiest in the region due to our hours, in addition to our reputation. We are busy every hour we are open, so this formula works for our practice. We cater to our patients and referring physicians.

Additionally, never assume anyone is successful based on the vacations he/she takes, the car driven, etc. One of the least successful pods I know drives an exotic car, lives in a huge home and is always on vacation. His wife and family are very wealthy and he has contributed nothing to these material goods.

There are exceptions to every rule, but the vast majority of very successful practices I have visited, all work longer than average hours.

 

[PADPM]

Every school I have interviewed at has some sort of annual trip where they go to a third world country. I don't know any pods who are in practice that do that type of stuff.

I can name at least 2 dozen pods who are in private practice who go to third world countries annually to treat patients. It absolutely exists in our profession.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

As I've stated many times, each practice is different. We have hours until 7 PM during the week and we are open weekends. We wouldn't be if we weren't busy. We want to see working professionals and students, and both of those groups often have a hard time coming to the office prior to 4-4:30. We treat high school athletes who have sporting events or practice and need to be seen later in the day. Yes, we can close earlier and have someone leave work early, have a student leave school, an athlete miss practice, etc.

I have to presume that ours practice is the busiest in the region due to our hours, in addition to our reputation. We are busy every hour we are open, so this formula works for our practice. We cater to our patients and referring physicians.

Additionally, never assume anyone is successful based on the vacations he/she takes, the car driven, etc. One of the least successful pods I know drives an exotic car, lives in a huge home and is always on vacation. His wife and family are very wealthy and he has contributed nothing to these material goods.

There are exceptions to every rule, but the vast majority of very successful practices I have visited, all work longer than average hours.

No I know. I'm not doubting you - I know you work very hard as you've stated before. I hope you don't think you need to defend your lifestyle. But I also know of the flip side of the coin of pods who do very well who don't work past five or on the weekends.

You're pretty much the only attending on these forums now. I just don't want every pre-pod potential to think that all pods work until 7 and every Saturday. So while I respect that you work a lot and are successful, and hopefully someday I can be in a practice that has as many patients as you. I know that not all pods are as fortunate with the patient pool.

 

[Ferocity]

Additionally, never assume anyone is successful based on the vacations he/she takes, the car driven, etc. One of the least successful pods I know drives an exotic car, lives in a huge home and is always on vacation. His wife and family are very wealthy and he has contributed nothing to these material goods.
.

So what you're saying is that I need to find the right wife?

 

[PADPM]

No I know. I'm not doubting you - I know you work very hard as you've stated before. I hope you don't think you need to defend your lifestyle. But I also know of the flip side of the coin of pods who do very well who don't work past five or on the weekends.

You're pretty much the only attending on these forums now. I just don't want every pre-pod potential to think that all pods work until 7 and every Saturday. So while I respect that you work a lot and are successful, and hopefully someday I can be in a practice that has as many patients as you. I know that not all pods are as fortunate with the patient pool.

Let me clarify. Each doctor in our practice does not work until 7 PM, including me. We have quite a few doctors and different docs work different evenings at different offices. We also rotate Saturdays.

You can be successful working 8-4, 9-5 or any combination you like. However, as our practice grew, we NEEDED more hours to accommodate patients. Otherwise the wait for an appointment would be out of control. As you add hours, you need more docs and the cycle continues. As the new docs become busier, you need more hours and more docs. The ball starts rolling and that's how a practice (at least ours) expands/grows.

Our practice is very accommodating. If one of our docs is supposed to work until 5, and a patient calls as an urgency and the schedule is full, the patient will be squeezed in or added at the end. We rarely say "no".

On the other hand, I have successful friends who will NOT stay past the scheduled hours. I guess that works for them. That's simply not how we roll. We cater to the patients and our referring docs, they know they can count on us, even if it may be "inconvenient". However, we don't look at it as inconvenient, we are happy we are busy. It's must easier to pay your bills when you're busy.

We hired a new associate about a year ago (and we are now looking for another) and he/she "gets it" and never complains when a patient is squeezed in or added on at the end. This doc previously worked at a practice that wasn't busy and is happy to contribute by working hard. This doc rarely if ever complains, I do enough of that myself!

There are many ways to practice, and I'm just letting you know what works for our group. Whatever hours you decide to work, be prepared to work hard and always to the best for your patient.

 

[PADPM]

So what you're saying is that I need to find the right wife?

Exactly.

 

[rushrhees]

I can name at least 2 dozen pods who are in private practice who go to third world countries annually to treat patients. It absolutely exists in our profession.

I shadowed at a clinic owned by a husband and wife DPM. They went to Eritrea for 10 days every year (at considerable expense to them when you factor in all the equipment they had to pay to get over there). Plenty do it

As for quality of life, the pods I shadowed said they work about 50-60 hour weeks, sometimes more sometimes less. I shadowed on a day that started at 9 and ended at 7:30, and shadowed another day where it went from 9:30-1:30 with an hour lunch. In all honesty for a white collar job private sector job, a 50 hour week is sort of the expectation these days.
As for money, they all lived in nice houses and drove mercedes and cadillacs. I would hazard at guess they made about 150-200 a year. That is only a guess, one said the more surgery you do generally the more you make (he did state certain exceptions to that)

Bottom line, you will do well, not as well as being an Investment Banker or certain MD/DO specialities, but still well none the less. As for working hours, you will be busy but still have time to have a normal private life.

 

[PADPM]

I shadowed at a clinic owned by a husband and wife DPM. They went to Eritrea for 10 days every year (at considerable expense to them when you factor in all the equipment they had to pay to get over there). Plenty do it

As for quality of life, the pods I shadowed said they work about 50-60 hour weeks, sometimes more sometimes less. I shadowed on a day that started at 9 and ended at 7:30, and shadowed another day where it went from 9:30-1:30 with an hour lunch. In all honesty for a white collar job private sector job, a 50 hour week is sort of the expectation these days.
As for money, they all lived in nice houses and drove mercedes and cadillacs. I would hazard at guess they made about 150-200 a year. That is only a guess, one said the more surgery you do generally the more you make (he did state certain exceptions to that)

Bottom line, you will do well, not as well as being an Investment Banker or certain MD/DO specialities, but still well none the less. As for working hours, you will be busy but still have time to have a normal private life.

Agreed. Excellent post.

 

[Ferocity]

Agreed. Excellent post.

You agree about the surgery part too?

 

[nikkisorous]

Kinda a random side note but how do you guys know what types of houses ANY of your doctors live in? Because I certainly don't know the addresses of any of their houses, nor have I ever heard any doctor be like ,"oh yeah my house is really nice" to any of their patients.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Kinda a random side note but how do you guys know what types of houses ANY of your doctors live in? Because I certainly don't know the addresses of any of their houses, nor have I ever heard any doctor be like ,"oh yeah my house is really nice" to any of their patients.

If you're talking to me, the video is inside of Dr. DeSantis's house for a while.

 

[PADPM]

If you're talking to me, the video is inside of Dr. DeSantis's house for a while.

I urge you not to be impressed by the car a doctor drives, the size of the home, etc. There are often many factors and other sources of income such as a successful spouse, family money, other streams of income, etc.

I personally did not understand the purpose of the APMA website having a doctor show you his car, his boat, his home. That's just my opinion.

You can make a lot of money and simply don't care about material things. I drive a much nicer car than one of my partners who earns more than me. You can live in areas of California or New York where a small closet costs close to seven figures or live in a small rural area where a castle cost 350,000 grand.

This is NO reflection of Dr. Disantis, but I know many docs of all specialties who drive exotic cars, live in huge homes and have a lot of material goods, but the doctor is as unethical as anyone can possibly be.

Judge any doctor on his/her skills, the way the patient is treated and ethics/morals. In my opinion that's the true measure of success. You will all have classmates who are at the bottom of the barrel, don't give a damn about the patient, have bad training and will make more than all of us.

I know, I know, there are many (the majority) of successful and ethical docs living in nice homes and driving nice cars, but try not to judge success on these items.

 

[PADPM]

You agree about the surgery part too?

It depends on the types of surgery and insurance reimbursements in your area. But in my opinion, surgery is the icing on the cake but not necessarily the best source of income. You have to factor in time traveling to and from the facility, time spent in the facility, "wait" time for an OR, OR turn around time and the global fee (the amount of time post operatively you can not bill for post of visits). When that's all added up, surgery is not always the most profitable source of income.

I've stated in past posts, that one of my partners (who is ABPS certified) no longer does surgery and is one of the highest producers in our practice.

 

[rushrhees]

It depends on the types of surgery and insurance reimbursements in your area. But in my opinion, surgery is the icing on the cake but not necessarily the best source of income. You have to factor in time traveling to and from the facility, time spent in the facility, "wait" time for an OR, OR turn around time and the global fee (the amount of time post operatively you can not bill for post of visits). When that's all added up, surgery is not always the most profitable source of income.

I've stated in past posts, that one of my partners (who is ABPS certified) no longer does surgery and is one of the highest producers in our practice.

That is exactly how my DPM mentor put it, yes the actual procedure nets you a lot of money, but when you look at the total time involved, you are turning away a number of other simpler cases that can collectively add up to more than you got for the surgery.

As for the DPMs house, one of them was a life long resident of my home town When we were chatting about life in Glen Ellyn, he mentioned which street he is on now. While I do not know the exact house, I know the street has nothing less than $500k. For the other, he invited me over to his house for a quick lunch as he lived about 5 minutes from the practice.

 

[Shinobiz11]

I can name at least 2 dozen pods who are in private practice who go to third world countries annually to treat patients. It absolutely exists in our profession.

I'm very interested in this, anywhere I can get more information?

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

I urge you not to be impressed by the car a doctor drives, the size of the home, etc. There are often many factors and other sources of income such as a successful spouse, family money, other streams of income, etc.

I personally did not understand the purpose of the APMA website having a doctor show you his car, his boat, his home. That's just my opinion.

You can make a lot of money and simply don't care about material things. I drive a much nicer car than one of my partners who earns more than me. You can live in areas of California or New York where a small closet costs close to seven figures or live in a small rural area where a castle cost 350,000 grand.

This is NO reflection of Dr. Disantis, but I know many docs of all specialties who drive exotic cars, live in huge homes and have a lot of material goods, but the doctor is as unethical as anyone can possibly be.

Judge any doctor on his/her skills, the way the patient is treated and ethics/morals. In my opinion that's the true measure of success. You will all have classmates who are at the bottom of the barrel, don't give a damn about the patient, have bad training and will make more than all of us.

I know, I know, there are many (the majority) of successful and ethical docs living in nice homes and driving nice cars, but try not to judge success on these items.

Haha, I know. I always laugh when I see that video because they are obviously trying to show his material wealth as a reflection of the profession's potential.

 

[Temperature101]

I urge you not to be impressed by the car a doctor drives, the size of the home, etc. There are often many factors and other sources of income such as a successful spouse, family money, other streams of income, etc.

I personally did not understand the purpose of the APMA website having a doctor show you his car, his boat, his home. That's just my opinion.

You can make a lot of money and simply don't care about material things. I drive a much nicer car than one of my partners who earns more than me. You can live in areas of California or New York where a small closet costs close to seven figures or live in a small rural area where a castle cost 350,000 grand.

This is NO reflection of Dr. Disantis, but I know many docs of all specialties who drive exotic cars, live in huge homes and have a lot of material goods, but the doctor is as unethical as anyone can possibly be.

Judge any doctor on his/her skills, the way the patient is treated and ethics/morals. In my opinion that's the true measure of success. You will all have classmates who are at the bottom of the barrel, don't give a damn about the patient, have bad training and will make more than all of us.

I know, I know, there are many (the majority) of successful and ethical docs living in nice homes and driving nice cars, but try not to judge success on these items.

I dont see anything wrong with that..They have to show every facet of the profession because they know that many will wanna know if they can make a good living after accumulating 200k+ debt in school loan.

 

[rushrhees]

I'm very interested in this, anywhere I can get more information?

http://www.capitaleritrea.com/physicians-for-peace-medical-mission-2010-eritrea/


I shadowed these DPMs back in summer, and they seem fairly active with this physicians for peace group, a lot of trip photos line their office. There is doctors without borders, they probably have DPM volunteers, and there are a host of other medical volunteer missions put on by many religious groups and other outfits. I know DMU and the other schools have summer programs to these over seas areas to help out. Trust me there will be ample oppurtunity to help out once you get in school or after graduation.

I dont see anything wrong with that..They have to show every facet of the profession because they know that many will wanna know if they can make a good living after accumulating 200k+ debt in school loan.

You can live like that on less than 100K, obviously not sustainably, but it can be done. At the very least it is sort of tacky, at worse it is trying to get people into the profession for the monetary aspect. I am not naive enough to think that the salary has nothing to do with people going into the MD/DO/DPM/DDS etc, but I think one will burn out or be a mediocre physician if they are just in it for the money and not the love of the field.

 

[PADPM]

I dont see anything wrong with that..They have to show every facet of the profession because they know that many will wanna know if they can make a good living after accumulating 200k+ debt in school loan.

In my opinion, that's like dangling a carrot in front of someone. Show the doctor in his office treating patients who walk out happy, show the doctor lecturing to a group, to students, or who ever, show the doctor in the hospital interacting with other professionals in the hospital, show the doctor in the operating room or performing a hospital consult.

Today's young doctors are coming out with a huge debt, and some of those material goods such as a huge home, expensive car or boat may not be obtainable for a long time. So showing these things in my opinion is pointless. Show HOW the doctor can obtain success by showing him working hard and long hours, show his dedication, show his skills, show happy patients. Because ultimately those are the factors that lead to success.

This is simply my opinion. However I've spoken with several students who saw the video and focused on those material goods and not how they were obtained.

 

[PADPM]

I'm very interested in this, anywhere I can get more information?

I did a quick google search and found missions to Ghana, Romania, Haiti, Kenya, Ecuador, and Guatemala. There are many more. If you search google you will find your answer.

 

[Shinobiz11]

I did a quick google search and found missions to Ghana, Romania, Haiti, Kenya, Ecuador, and Guatemala. There are many more. If you search google you will find your answer.

Lol thanks, but I know how to use the Google. I just wanted to see if anyone had some more personal information regarding the trips.

 

[PADPM]

Lol thanks, but I know how to use the Google. I just wanted to see if anyone had some more personal information regarding the trips.

Yes I do have some personal information regarding these trips. They are obviously very rewarding and involve an amazing amount of work. They are bitter sweet since not all patients who need help/surgery will have that opportunity. There is often a screening process since there is a limit how much can be done during one visit.

Many docs pay the entire cost of travel out of their pockets and also donate supplies. Many have a fundraiser to help with costs and suppliers and reps are also asked to make donations.

 

[Shinobiz11]

Yes I do have some personal information regarding these trips. They are obviously very rewarding and involve an amazing amount of work. They are bitter sweet since not all patients who need help/surgery will have that opportunity. There is often a screening process since there is a limit how much can be done during one visit.

Many docs pay the entire cost of travel out of their pockets and also donate supplies. Many have a fundraiser to help with costs and suppliers and reps are also asked to make donations.

This is what I was looking for, thanks bro.

 

[PADPM]

This is what I was looking for, thanks bro.

Thanks bro????

You're welcome.

Please take this as advice without getting defensive. You can refer to me any way you'd like since you don't know me. However, in the future, if you are shadowing a doctor of any kind or speaking with a doctor, spending time with a doctor, etc., for YOUR sake, please never refer to that doctor as dude, bro, pal, chief, bud, or any other term other than the doctor's name.

You can only make one first impression, and no matter how good you are, that first impression means a lot. Many years ago we were interviewing a candidate for a residency position. A very esteemed doctor asked the candidate a question, and the candidate started his answer with "dude". There was a dead silence in the room and none of us could believe he responded with "dude". After he said that, unfortunately most people in the room stopped listening.

About 3 years ago I was in the doctor lounge after a surgery. An surgical rep walked in the room to thank a doctor for using his products during a surgery. The rep said, "thanks for using our products today bro". The surgeon said nothing until the rep left and then told the nursing supervisor to never let that rep into his OR again.

I know your intentions are good and meant with no disrespect, but in the future when you meet docs or other professionals, leave the slang behind. Some will understand and some won't. And ultimately it has the potential to negatively affect you.

Me, I don't usually mind being called bro, because I've been called much worse.

 

[Traum]

Good advice. Also, NEVER refer to anyone by their first name unless they give explicit permission to do so. It is Dr. or Mr./Ms (docs in foreign countries are called Mr/Ms/Professor), never first name. Cannot tell you how many times Hi______, Hello____ --who are you, what are you, respect is respect. Dr. or Mr./Ms. Formal is better than slack off, dude, surfs up, broheem, bra, bro, and folks in america wonder why so many are un or underemployed?

 

[nikkisorous]

Over analysis much? People over the internet use slang like, "hey what's up bro?" everyday. However It doesn't mean they call teachers/doctors or anyone that demands respect"bro" . It's just internet slang, and I'm sure he did it out of common practice.

 

[PADPM]

Over analysis much? People over the internet use slang like, "hey what's up bro?" everyday. However It doesn't mean they call teachers/doctors or anyone that demands respect"bro" . It's just internet slang, and I'm sure he did it out of common practice.

Please read this sentence in my prior post-----"I know your intentions are good and meant with no disrespect.............."

 

[nikkisorous]

Please read this sentence in my prior post-----"I know your intentions are good and meant with no disrespect.............."

Oh don't worry, I read your entire post.

Anyway this thread has begun sideballing off topic. In an attempt to bring it back i'll say this. I think luck is a factor that many people under think when it comes to salary. The phrase being at the right place at the right time is pretty accurate when it comes to any medical profession.

 

[PADPM]

. I think luck is a factor that many people under think when it comes to salary. The phrase being at the right place at the right time is pretty accurate when it comes to any medical profession.

Agreed. That's why #11 in my first post in this thread was "luck".

I know a very well trained resident who was offered a decent salary upon graduation. While he was deciding, he visited a practice who had a relationship with an orthopedic group a good distance from the office. The ortho group was looking for a pod, interviewed the young doc and right out of the gate offered him $240,000. He didn't ask that amount, that was their initial offer! Needless to say, there was certainly a little luck involved and a definite example of the right place at the right time.

 

[nikkisorous]

Agreed. That's why #11 in my first post in this thread was "luck".

I know a very well trained resident who was offered a decent salary upon graduation. While he was deciding, he visited a practice who had a relationship with an orthopedic group a good distance from the office. The ortho group was looking for a pod, interviewed the young doc and right out of the gate offered him $240,000. He didn't ask that amount, that was their initial offer! Needless to say, there was certainly a little luck involved and a definite example of the right place at the right time.

When offered a lower salary bonuses and incentives usually help balance it out. Since this individual was offered a high salary from the start do you know if he still recieved a good amount of bonuses too?

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Agreed. That's why #11 in my first post in this thread was "luck".

I know a very well trained resident who was offered a decent salary upon graduation. While he was deciding, he visited a practice who had a relationship with an orthopedic group a good distance from the office. The ortho group was looking for a pod, interviewed the young doc and right out of the gate offered him $240,000. He didn't ask that amount, that was their initial offer! Needless to say, there was certainly a little luck involved and a definite example of the right place at the right time.

This is my dream. Hahaha

 

[ilovefeet]

Agreed. That's why #11 in my first post in this thread was "luck".

I know a very well trained resident who was offered a decent salary upon graduation. While he was deciding, he visited a practice who had a relationship with an orthopedic group a good distance from the office. The ortho group was looking for a pod, interviewed the young doc and right out of the gate offered him $240,000. He didn't ask that amount, that was their initial offer! Needless to say, there was certainly a little luck involved and a definite example of the right place at the right time.

Wow
What state was this in?

 

[PADPM]

When offered a lower salary bonuses and incentives usually help balance it out. Since this individual was offered a high salary from the start do you know if he still recieved a good amount of bonuses too?

I'm not sure of the details, however even most lower paid positions with bonuses don't end up with 240,000 their first year. As a partner in a fairly large practice and high overhead, I know what a doc has to bring in to the office in order to pay the doc, cover overhead and make a profit. Remember, as a business, the goal is to pay the associate fairly, but also to make a profit on those earnings.

For our practice to pay a new doc 240,000, the doc would have to bring in about 625,000. And bringing in that much doesn't happen quickly.

On a quick note......many young/new docs THINK they are bringing in much more than they actually do. Billing a lot and collecting a lot is very different. So a doc can bill 550,000 and may realistically collect less than 300,000. And if that doc is paid at 40% of collections, that is 120,000. You must also consider that the practice is paying dues (between APMA,,ABPS and ACFAS, that can be almost 3,000 a year). Plus the practice pays state license fees, DEA fees and hospital staff fees which can add up to 2,000 a year.

If a practice pays health benefits, contributes to a 401k, etc., that's additional cost to the practice. So it is a difficult balance between making the employee happy, making a profit and covering overhead. Large orthopedic practices often have additional streams of income including physical therapy, MRI, etc., which help cover overhead and allow the practice to pay higher starting salaries.

 

[nikkisorous]

I'm not sure of the details, however even most lower paid positions with bonuses don't end up with 240,000 their first year. As a partner in a fairly large practice and high overhead, I know what a doc has to bring in to the office in order to pay the doc, cover overhead and make a profit. Remember, as a business, the goal is to pay the associate fairly, but also to make a profit on those earnings.

For our practice to pay a new doc 240,000, the doc would have to bring in about 625,000. And bringing in that much doesn't happen quickly.

On a quick note......many young/new docs THINK they are bringing in much more than they actually do. Billing a lot and collecting a lot is very different. So a doc can bill 550,000 and may realistically collect less than 300,000. And if that doc is paid at 40% of collections, that is 120,000. You must also consider that the practice is paying dues (between APMA,,ABPS and ACFAS, that can be almost 3,000 a year). Plus the practice pays state license fees, DEA fees and hospital staff fees which can add up to 2,000 a year.

If a practice pays health benefits, contributes to a 401k, etc., that's additional cost to the practice. So it is a difficult balance between making the employee happy, making a profit and covering overhead. Large orthopedic practices often have additional streams of income including physical therapy, MRI, etc., which help cover overhead and allow the practice to pay higher starting salaries.

Thank you for answering.

 

[Shinobiz11]

Thanks bro????

You're welcome.

Please take this as advice without getting defensive. You can refer to me any way you'd like since you don't know me. However, in the future, if you are shadowing a doctor of any kind or speaking with a doctor, spending time with a doctor, etc., for YOUR sake, please never refer to that doctor as dude, bro, pal, chief, bud, or any other term other than the doctor's name.

You can only make one first impression, and no matter how good you are, that first impression means a lot. Many years ago we were interviewing a candidate for a residency position. A very esteemed doctor asked the candidate a question, and the candidate started his answer with "dude". There was a dead silence in the room and none of us could believe he responded with "dude". After he said that, unfortunately most people in the room stopped listening.

About 3 years ago I was in the doctor lounge after a surgery. An surgical rep walked in the room to thank a doctor for using his products during a surgery. The rep said, "thanks for using our products today bro". The surgeon said nothing until the rep left and then told the nursing supervisor to never let that rep into his OR again.

I know your intentions are good and meant with no disrespect, but in the future when you meet docs or other professionals, leave the slang behind. Some will understand and some won't. And ultimately it has the potential to negatively affect you.

Me, I don't usually mind being called bro, because I've been called much worse.

Edit: This is the internet....don't base your judgements off of what people say here lol. I called you "bro" because I see you as a friend

 

[PADPM]

Edit: This is the internet....don't base your judgements off of what people say here lol. I called you "bro" because I see you as a friend

I thought I was pretty clear that I wasn't angry. Just thought I'd give you my thoughts for the future. I've seen too many good kids get caught up with accidentally calling someone a slang term, and having their chances ruined in that situation.

Once again, I've been called worse. It's all good....no problem.