Average salary of doctors via Indeed.com??

[AnkleGuy]

Via indeed.com

Average salary of doctor of internal medicine: $170K

Average salary of dentists: $150K

Average salary of podiatrists: ...$105K ??

Why is this? Is this why there are so many open seats in podiatry schools? With all due respect but I find it difficult to justify to spend 4 years in school with a three year residency and $300K in student loans when you only make $105K a year. I hope I'm missing something here.

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[KSUCPMMM]

Via indeed.com

What is a Salary Estimate?


Only about 20% of the jobs in our search results contain salary information. When a job posting doesn't include a salary, we estimate it by looking at similar jobs. When salaries are available, they are shown in our search results. Estimated salaries are not endorsed by the companies offering those positions and may vary from actual salaries. Please check with the employer to confirm any salary information.

 

[Weirdy]

Via indeed.com

Average salary of doctor of internal medicine: $170K

Average salary of dentists: $150K

Average salary of podiatrists: ...$105K ??

Why is this? Is this why there are so many open seats in podiatry schools? With all due respect but I find it difficult to justify to spend 4 years in school with a three year residency and $300K in student loans when you only make $105K a year. I hope I'm missing something here.

The job search thread: tips, tricks, and experiences
My comments regarding DPM income

EDIT: Will probably be an SDN sampling bias. Wish more pods would contribute their experiences to the first thread to get a better sample.

 

[Nippyfan]

I think the $105K base is a little dated and not truly representative of the field in its entirety. At this point it seems that for a general pod working in a pod only clinic that figure is probably close to most starting figures. However, once you begin to factor in employment opportunities in either a ortho group or hospital setting the average far surpasses the average of a dentist and/or internist.

Via indeed.com

Average salary of doctor of internal medicine: $170K

Average salary of dentists: $150K

Average salary of podiatrists: ...$105K ??

Why is this? Is this why there are so many open seats in podiatry schools? With all due respect but I find it difficult to justify to spend 4 years in school with a three year residency and $300K in student loans when you only make $105K a year. I hope I'm missing something here.

 

[SLCpod]

Via indeed.com

Average salary of doctor of internal medicine: $170K

Average salary of dentists: $150K

Average salary of podiatrists: ...$105K ??

Why is this? Is this why there are so many open seats in podiatry schools? With all due respect but I find it difficult to justify to spend 4 years in school with a three year residency and $300K in student loans when you only make $105K a year. I hope I'm missing something here.

Just finishing school with way less than 300k in debt. I know it's not the topic of the thread but I hope you don't intend to take out that much in loans.

 

[dr.phoot]

Not many ways to really spin this. There certainly are plenty of better paying medical careers and specialties out there.

Good post, OP!

I know my reasons for choosing pod and I know what I'll need to make annually to be satisfied in life.

 

[dr.phoot]

Just finishing school with way less than 300k in debt. I know it's not the topic of the thread but I hope you don't intend to take out that much in loans.

SLC, keep in mind some people are bringing "excess baggage" from undergrad, and in some cases, AND grad school.

 

[GypsyHummus]

SLC, keep in mind some people are bringing "excess baggage" from undergrad, and in some cases, AND grad school.

And that 3-5% increase in tuition per year.

 

[AnkleGuy]

The job search thread: tips, tricks, and experiences
My comments regarding DPM income

EDIT: Will probably be an SDN sampling bias. Wish more pods would contribute their experiences to the first thread to get a better sample.

While this anecdotal evidence is a nice comforting read, Indeed, which is a reputable job information source, isn't screwing around with their numbers either. Anyone who comes on SDN and says "hey podiatrists can make a comfortable living" would seem like such a bias as opposed to a job survey done by professionals. Otherwise the other health professional average salaries would be way off as well, right? I find it hard to believe that podiatrists make that little but seeing that number was very shocking. And like I said, maybe that has to do with the number of seats being unfilled increasing each year in podiatry schools. It's concerning. I've even read from some sources that the number of podiatry jobs are decreasing. At first I scoffed and laughed at such an idea because diabetes is still on the rise and podiatry as a profession is getting more respect every decade, but who knows who's telling the truth anymore.

Maybe that was the average base salary without incentives or bonuses included... who knows. I see many job sources stating that pods on average after 5 years of experience making $150k+. So bottom line the salaries seem highly variable in podiatry as opposed to other health professions. I seem to be rambling and ranting at this point but I also want to protect myself even though I love podiatry as a profession.

 

[Weirdy]

While this anecdotal evidence is a nice comforting read. Indeed, which is a reputable job information source, isn't screwing around with their numbers either. Anyone who comes on SDN and says "hey podiatrists can make a comfortable living" would seem like such a bias as opposed to a job survey done by professionals. Otherwise the other health professional average salaries would be way off as well, right? I find it hard to believe that podiatrists make that little but seeing that number was very shocking. And like I said, maybe that has to do with the number of seats being unfilled increasing each year in podiatry schools. It's concerning. I've even read from some sources that the number of podiatry jobs are decreasing. At first I scoffed and laughed at such an idea because diabetes is still on the rise and podiatry as a profession is getting more respect every decade, but who knows who's telling the truth anymore.

Maybe that was the average base salary without incentives or bonuses included... who knows. I see many job sources stating that pods on average after 5 years of experience making $150k+. So bottom line the salaries seem highly variable in podiatry as opposed to other health professions. I seem to be rambling and ranting at this point but I also want to protect myself even though I love podiatry as a profession.

Hey no harm done bud. I completely agree with you on many of those points. When shadowing I had at least 2 podiatrists tell me the salary wasn't worth the amount of schooling and debt accumulated. At the same time I also saw podiatrists who were very successful and living comfortably as well as attendings who were making big bucks but putting most of it towards family and school debt so they were living very modestly.

I have no doubt the 3-5k per month we will be putting towards school debt will drain us. But at the same time, jobs do exist out there for podiatrists. There are cities with low costs of living without crazy saturation that will allow you to live comfortably even while you pay back school loans. I myself still have undergrad and a master's degree loans to pay off so I completely understand why such a low income is in stark contrast with the amount of time and debt accumulated training.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

That average also shows where they got the reported salaries. 670 total. 150 are from an NHSC type clinics. 44 were from the army (88k), 14o worked for the VA who, as has been reported in other threads, are trying to fight for equal autonomy in terms of pay. 106 were 70k or lower, definitely skewing the data... Of those 106 reported salaries below 70k, 64 made $14 an hour or less. So definitely look at where those numbers come from.

So if you look at salaries reported that are from actual clinics, its more like 150k.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Critique away:

Physician - Podiatry Salaries by education, experience, location and more - Salary.com

When compared to:

Internist: Salary.com Salary Wizard- Do you know what you're worth?

PharmD: Salary.com Salary Wizard- Do you know what you're worth?

DDS: Salary.com Salary Wizard- Do you know what you're worth?

 

[dr.phoot]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...HIfinO2Svk5mz9Cdg&sig2=R9UqPl6qTUMb73Dm0AKb1A

^^^^^^ hopefully that opens up. Also look through the podiatry book that they publish and update annually with all the schools stats and entrance info. You'll see current salary data in that book

 

[AnkleGuy]

That average also shows where they got the reported salaries. 670 total. 150 are from an NHSC type clinics. 44 were from the army (88k), 14o worked for the VA who, as has been reported in other threads, are trying to fight for equal autonomy in terms of pay. 106 were 70k or lower, definitely skewing the data... Of those 106 reported salaries below 70k, 64 made $14 an hour or less. So definitely look at where those numbers come from.

So if you look at salaries reported that are from actual clinics, its more like 150k.

You see, this seems more accurate, which is why I was concerned. But it's not like doctors of internal medicine or dentists don't work for the army or VA either, which should also lower their "average"... so something doesn't add up. Unless Indeed didn't bother to get an accurate estimation from most typical podiatrist positions.

Critique away:

Physician - Podiatry Salaries by education, experience, location and more - Salary.com

When compared to:

Internist: Salary.com Salary Wizard- Do you know what you're worth?

PharmD: Salary.com Salary Wizard- Do you know what you're worth?

DDS: Salary.com Salary Wizard- Do you know what you're worth?

Like I said, this seems more accurate. I just wonder why Indeed's website had such a different value. Indeed is a very reputable source that many people find employment through. I've had doctor's tell me that being a podiatrist doesn't pay, but I wonder what they meant by that. Doesn't pay as in ... being paid as much as an othropedic surgeon? I'm fine with that. Or did they mean, doesn't pay enough to have a comfortable life style with all of the student loans? Salaries in the field of podiatry just seem very widely variable.

 

[dr.phoot]

You see, this seems more accurate, which is why I was concerned. But it's not like doctors of internal medicine or dentists don't work for the army or VA either, which should also lower their "average"... so something doesn't add up. Unless Indeed didn't bother to get an accurate estimation from most typical podiatrist positions.



Like I said, this seems more accurate. I just wonder why Indeed's website had such a different value. Indeed is a very reputable source that many people find employment through. I've had doctor's tell me that being a podiatrist doesn't pay, but I wonder what they meant by that. Doesn't pay as in ... being paid as much as an othropedic surgeon? I'm fine with that. Or did they mean, doesn't pay enough to have a comfortable life style with all of the student loans? Salaries in the field of podiatry just seem very widely variable.

Just be careful of the source!

 

[GypsyHummus]

Hey no harm done bud. I completely agree with you on many of those points. When shadowing I had at least 2 podiatrists tell me the salary wasn't worth the amount of schooling and debt accumulated. At the same time I also saw podiatrists who were very successful and living comfortably as well as attendings who were making big bucks but putting most of it towards family and school debt so they were living very modestly.

I have no doubt the 3-5k per month we will be putting towards school debt will drain us. But at the same time, jobs do exist out there for podiatrists. There are cities with low costs of living without crazy saturation that will allow you to live comfortably even while you pay back school loans. I myself still have undergrad and a master's degree loans to pay off so I completely understand why such a low income is in stark contrast with the amount of time and debt accumulated training.

Yeah, basically all doctors say the same thing. I for one, would like to know where this magical workplace is where you make really good money for not a lot of work. I make less than 15K per year and my jobs stink, but thats what is available to people who don't major in engineering, accounting, or nursing. These dentists and pharmacists complaining that they make 110K a year out in the rural areas are lucky, it could be a lot worse

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

You see, this seems more accurate, which is why I was concerned. But it's not like doctors of internal medicine or dentists don't work for the army or VA either, which should also lower their "average"... so something doesn't add up. Unless Indeed didn't bother to get an accurate estimation from most typical podiatrist positions.



Like I said, this seems more accurate. I just wonder why Indeed's website had such a different value. Indeed is a very reputable source that many people find employment through. I've had doctor's tell me that being a podiatrist doesn't pay, but I wonder what they meant by that. Doesn't pay as in ... being paid as much as an othropedic surgeon? I'm fine with that. Or did they mean, doesn't pay enough to have a comfortable life style with all of the student loans? Salaries in the field of podiatry just seem very widely variable.

Internal Medicine has subspecialties that can make a ton of money. And dentistry it says they got like 15,000 survey responses. Larger sample size shows a more steady mean.

Also dentists that work for the VA make more than a podiatrist that works at the VA. This is why podiatrists are trying to fight for parity in the VA so they can be paid like MD, DO, and DDS do. They also make more in the army and with Indian Health Service clinics and NHSC clinics.

Every single career in the world will have people that are happy with their career earnings, but more times than not they will feel they should get compensated more. I shadowed anesthesiologists that made 400k and said they don't get paid enough. Find what you love to do, master it, and become the best at it. No career exists where you make great money with minimal effort/commitment. Yes you may say you don't wanna invest 4 years of school and 3 years of residency to make only 6 figures. However I would rather put in that effort so that I could work 30 years with a stable/secure job, making good money with good hours than be a realtor or salesman who has to bust their back for 30 years to make sure they always are making a high commission; point being: there is always a lot of work and diligence in whatever you go into. With podiatry its a lot on the front end. With other careers its more on the backend. But its there for everyone. People only see the tip of the iceberg when it comes to seeing how hard people work. They don't see the depth below the water. You get what you put in.

 

[AnkleGuy]

Internal Medicine has subspecialties that can make a ton of money. And dentistry it says they got like 15,000 survey responses. Larger sample size shows a more steady mean.

Also dentists that work for the VA make more than a podiatrist that works at the VA. This is why podiatrists are trying to fight for parity in the VA so they can be paid like MD, DO, and DDS do. They also make more in the army and with Indian Health Service clinics and NHSC clinics.

Every single career in the world will have people that are happy with their career earnings, but more times than not they will feel they should get compensated more. I shadowed anesthesiologists that made 400k and said they don't get paid enough. Find what you love to do, master it, and become the best at it. No career exists where you make great money with minimal effort/commitment. Yes you may say you don't wanna invest 4 years of school and 3 years of residency to make only 6 figures. However I would rather put in that effort so that I could work 30 years with a stable/secure job, making good money with good hours than be a realtor or salesman who has to bust their back for 30 years to make sure they always are making a high commission; point being: there is always a lot of work and diligence in whatever you go into. With podiatry its a lot on the front end. With other careers its more on the backend. But its there for everyone. People only see the tip of the iceberg when it comes to seeing how hard people work. They don't see the depth below the water. You get what you put in.

I know, I hear you. I'm sure the amount of responses had something to do with the results. I'm not expecting to make a lot of money as a podiatrist if I'm given the opportunity, but I don't think it's a lot to expect at least an upper middle class lifestyle as a podiatrist. I just don't know when you start "living" if you're a podiatrist only making $110k a year with $200-300k in student loans. Most people getting out of podiatry school are close to 30 years old, starting their lives, families, having to buy a house, pay for children, etc. Life is expensive and that amount of student loans to pay while not being able to work throughout most of your 20's is daunting. Podiatry is a very fulfilling and unique field, no doubt about it. I just want to make sure that I'm not living paycheck to paycheck while being a doctor..... which is partly why I wanted to go to college in the first place so I wouldn't have to live paycheck to paycheck.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

I know, I hear you. I'm sure the amount of responses had something to do with the results. I'm not expecting to make a lot of money as a podiatrist if I'm given the opportunity, but I don't think it's a lot to expect at least an upper middle class lifestyle as a podiatrist. I just don't know when you start "living" if you're a podiatrist only making $110k a year with $200-300k in student loans. Most people getting out of podiatry school are close to 30 years old, starting their lives, families, having to buy a house, pay for children, etc. Life is expensive and that amount of student loans to pay while not being able to work throughout most of your 20's is daunting. Podiatry is a very fulfilling and unique field, no doubt about it. I just want to make sure that I'm not living paycheck to paycheck while being a doctor..... which is partly why I wanted to go to college in the first place so I wouldn't have to live paycheck to paycheck.

When you look at those average salaries, look at where the numbers are coming from. It says it all

 

[Certified Corsair]

I know, I hear you. I'm sure the amount of responses had something to do with the results. I'm not expecting to make a lot of money as a podiatrist if I'm given the opportunity, but I don't think it's a lot to expect at least an upper middle class lifestyle as a podiatrist. I just don't know when you start "living" if you're a podiatrist only making $110k a year with $200-300k in student loans. Most people getting out of podiatry school are close to 30 years old, starting their lives, families, having to buy a house, pay for children, etc. Life is expensive and that amount of student loans to pay while not being able to work throughout most of your 20's is daunting. Podiatry is a very fulfilling and unique field, no doubt about it. I just want to make sure that I'm not living paycheck to paycheck while being a doctor..... which is partly why I wanted to go to college in the first place so I wouldn't have to live paycheck to paycheck.

I can attest to what smurfey is saying. I graduated last year and applied to a few pathology jobs in the lab, and have other classmates that work in some as well. In the northeast I make roughly $28/hour to start and have a friend that moved to Missouri and does the same exact job as me with same credentials but makes $16/hour. However, his rent and overall essential lifestyle (excluding tax/insurance) costs about half of what mine does up here. I have used indeed/monster/jobs. They are great for FINDING jobs, but take the salaries with a grain of salt... I have seen plenty of variation from those values to real life.

 

[SnozzBerry]

Via indeed.com

Average salary of doctor of internal medicine: $170K

Average salary of dentists: $150K

Average salary of podiatrists: ...$105K ??

Why is this? Is this why there are so many open seats in podiatry schools? With all due respect but I find it difficult to justify to spend 4 years in school with a three year residency and $300K in student loans when you only make $105K a year. I hope I'm missing something here.

Alright, so I know this is probably going to rustle a lot of feathers here. I don't mean to hate on podiatry, I respect what you guys do. But I think what will help you answer your question is this. Podiatry is a huge time commitment -- 4 years of schooling + 3 years of residency MINIMUM. The only other healthcare career like this is the MD/DO pathway. And in general most physicians make quite a bit more than a podiatrist, have the "prestige" factor, and also have many more "options" with specialties and what not. So why would anyone go into podiatry if they have the MD/DO option? 1) They can't get into a MD/DO program, look at the average stats of pod vs MD/DO. 2) They could get into MD/DO but wouldn't be guaranteed surgery. This is more reasonable, but there are some surgical fields that aren't super competitive, general surgery comes to mind. And who really knows if surgery is what they would fall in love with if they ended up going to medical school? 3) They could get into MD/DO, but just plain prefer podiatry. These people obviously exist, but as you could probably assume are just not a huge proportion of people. Podiatry instantly limits your options comparatively, has less prestige (some people really care about this) and comes with a lower salary than most physicians with a similar if not identical amount of time in training. THIS is why podiatry schools have trouble filling seats and their average numbers are lower than other health care professions. Now do some podiatrists make more than most family docs? Yes absolutely. But they are working hard for it. Getting into podiatry school is easy, succeeding in podiatry is a whole other animal.

 

[Weirdy]

Alright, so I know this is probably going to rustle a lot of feathers here. I don't mean to hate on podiatry, I respect what you guys do. But I think what will help you answer your question is this. Podiatry is a huge time commitment -- 4 years of schooling + 3 years of residency MINIMUM. The only other healthcare career like this is the MD/DO pathway. And in general most physicians make quite a bit more than a podiatrist, have the "prestige" factor, and also have many more "options" with specialties and what not. So why would anyone go into podiatry if they have the MD/DO option? 1) They can't get into a MD/DO program, look at the average stats of pod vs MD/DO. 2) They could get into MD/DO but wouldn't be guaranteed surgery. This is more reasonable, but there are some surgical fields that aren't super competitive, general surgery comes to mind. And who really knows if surgery is what they would fall in love with if they ended up going to medical school? 3) They could get into MD/DO, but just plain prefer podiatry. These people obviously exist, but as you could probably assume are just not a huge proportion of people. Podiatry instantly limits your options comparatively, has less prestige (some people really care about this) and comes with a lower salary than most physicians with a similar if not identical amount of time in training. THIS is why podiatry schools have trouble filling seats and their average numbers are lower than other health care professions. Now do some podiatrists make more than most family docs? Yes absolutely. But they are working hard for it. Getting into podiatry school is easy, succeeding in podiatry is a whole other animal.

Your entire post has been rehashed over and over again with the same exact points on pod forums.

No feathers ruffled. Its just common sense.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Alright, so I know this is probably going to rustle a lot of feathers here. I don't mean to hate on podiatry, I respect what you guys do. But I think what will help you answer your question is this. Podiatry is a huge time commitment -- 4 years of schooling + 3 years of residency MINIMUM. The only other healthcare career like this is the MD/DO pathway. And in general most physicians make quite a bit more than a podiatrist, have the "prestige" factor, and also have many more "options" with specialties and what not. So why would anyone go into podiatry if they have the MD/DO option? 1) They can't get into a MD/DO program, look at the average stats of pod vs MD/DO. 2) They could get into MD/DO but wouldn't be guaranteed surgery. This is more reasonable, but there are some surgical fields that aren't super competitive, general surgery comes to mind. And who really knows if surgery is what they would fall in love with if they ended up going to medical school? 3) They could get into MD/DO, but just plain prefer podiatry. These people obviously exist, but as you could probably assume are just not a huge proportion of people. Podiatry instantly limits your options comparatively, has less prestige (some people really care about this) and comes with a lower salary than most physicians with a similar if not identical amount of time in training. THIS is why podiatry schools have trouble filling seats and their average numbers are lower than other health care professions. Now do some podiatrists make more than most family docs? Yes absolutely. But they are working hard for it. Getting into podiatry school is easy, succeeding in podiatry is a whole other animal.

I do not know for 2017, yet, but for 2016, the mean average Step 1 and Step 2 scores to match into General Surgery were: 235, 247, respectively. And just to compare this to Orthopaedic Surgery (where Podiatry falls into), the mean scores were: 247 & 253.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Allopathic-Seniors-2016.pdf

That, to me, is pretty competitive and is indicative of how many applicants do not make it through. Podiatry is just not well known at the undergrad level like that of MD. About ten years ago, it was the same for DO schools, but things are getting better for DO schools as more are opening per year. If more people ought to know what a DPM can do, then I predict similar trend among the Pod schools as well.

 

[SnozzBerry]

I do not know for 2017, yet, but for 2016, the mean average Step 1 and Step 2 scores to match into General Surgery were: 235, 247, respectively. And just to compare this to Orthopaedic Surgery (where Podiatry falls into), the mean scores were: 247 & 253.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Allopathic-Seniors-2016.pdf

That, to me, is pretty competitive and is indicative of how many applicants do not make it through. Podiatry is just not well known at the undergrad level like that of MD. About ten years ago, it was the same for DO schools, but things are getting better for DO schools as more are opening per year. If more people ought to know what a DPM can do, then I predict similar trend among the Pod schools as well.

Hm I honestly don't know how to interpret those numbers. I guess the only thing I was going off of was the few friends I have in medical school and their thoughts on general surgery being attainable for close to average medical students. Maybe they are wrong?

 

[AnkleGuy]

I do not know for 2017, yet, but for 2016, the mean average Step 1 and Step 2 scores to match into General Surgery were: 235, 247, respectively. And just to compare this to Orthopaedic Surgery (where Podiatry falls into), the mean scores were: 247 & 253.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Allopathic-Seniors-2016.pdf

That, to me, is pretty competitive and is indicative of how many applicants do not make it through. Podiatry is just not well known at the undergrad level like that of MD. About ten years ago, it was the same for DO schools, but things are getting better for DO schools as more are opening per year. If more people ought to know what a DPM can do, then I predict similar trend among the Pod schools as well.

What exactly are you saying here? That most podiatry students don't pass Step 1 and Step 2?

 

[Podstar]

What exactly are you saying here? That most podiatry students don't pass Step 1 and Step 2?

That it is very competitive to match into surgical fields as a medical student. With podiatry there is no chance you go in wanting neurosurgery and get family medicine; you are going to get your surgeries if you want them.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

What exactly are you saying here? That most podiatry students don't pass Step 1 and Step 2?

Podstar got the right idea.

I was simply stating how competitive it is for regular MD students (note I'm not including DOs here) to match into a surgical field, esp things like ortho, neuro, any other sub-speciality. I'm not saying DOs don't match into these, they do, but the ones that match are the ones with the best step scores, research, and every other part required to match.

If we as a student with lower stats than an MD student can get into a Pod school, finish residency, and work with one of these Ortho MDs, and make about half as they make, then I say that's a pretty sweet deal. At least, it is in my opinion.

But, please, don't take my word for it, if anyone is interested in Podiatry but have doubts then you need to go out and find real working Pods and get those questions answered. Also, always have a plan B.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Hm I honestly don't know how to interpret those numbers. I guess the only thing I was going off of was the few friends I have in medical school and their thoughts on general surgery being attainable for close to average medical students. Maybe they are wrong?

Those numbers are simply stating that you have to do very well on your boards as an MD/DO students to match into surgery. For the DOs, in addition to doing well in their COMLEX exams, they must also do well in the USMLE steps to match into an ACGME residency. But, please note, as I have stated above, these exams are just one part of the residency application.

Bottomline is that you can do very well from a career in Podiatry (something that is being talked about for a few months now, lol).

 

[AnkleGuy]

Those numbers are simply stating that you have to do very well on your boards as an MD/DO students to match into surgery. For the DOs, in addition to doing well in their COMLEX exams, they must also do well in the USMLE steps to match into an ACGME residency. But, please note, as I have stated above, these exams are just one part of the residency application.

Bottomline is that you can do very well from a career in Podiatry (something that is being talked about for a few months now, lol).

Oh okay this clears things up. Yes podiatry is a great field to get into if you want to absolutely do surgery.

 

[dr.phoot]

Alright, so I know this is probably going to rustle a lot of feathers here. I don't mean to hate on podiatry, I respect what you guys do. But I think what will help you answer your question is this. Podiatry is a huge time commitment -- 4 years of schooling + 3 years of residency MINIMUM. The only other healthcare career like this is the MD/DO pathway. And in general most physicians make quite a bit more than a podiatrist, have the "prestige" factor, and also have many more "options" with specialties and what not. So why would anyone go into podiatry if they have the MD/DO option? 1) They can't get into a MD/DO program, look at the average stats of pod vs MD/DO. 2) They could get into MD/DO but wouldn't be guaranteed surgery. This is more reasonable, but there are some surgical fields that aren't super competitive, general surgery comes to mind. And who really knows if surgery is what they would fall in love with if they ended up going to medical school? 3) They could get into MD/DO, but just plain prefer podiatry. These people obviously exist, but as you could probably assume are just not a huge proportion of people. Podiatry instantly limits your options comparatively, has less prestige (some people really care about this) and comes with a lower salary than most physicians with a similar if not identical amount of time in training. THIS is why podiatry schools have trouble filling seats and their average numbers are lower than other health care professions. Now do some podiatrists make more than most family docs? Yes absolutely. But they are working hard for it. Getting into podiatry school is easy, succeeding in podiatry is a whole other animal.

 

[AnkleGuy]

Yes, but most MD "surgeons" make $250k+ a year while DPM surgeons make $100-120k? That seems a little ridiculous and I don't buy that. Any other salary "source" I see says that an average Pod makes $150-180k on average. The average salary of DPM's in my area are $190K a year while Orthopaedic surgeons in my area make $450K and that seems very fair. So I think I'm kind of right too.

 

[SnozzBerry]

Those numbers are simply stating that you have to do very well on your boards as an MD/DO students to match into surgery. For the DOs, in addition to doing well in their COMLEX exams, they must also do well in the USMLE steps to match into an ACGME residency. But, please note, as I have stated above, these exams are just one part of the residency application.

Bottomline is that you can do very well from a career in Podiatry (something that is being talked about for a few months now, lol).

Hm so I did some quick googling and it said that the average step 1 score is ~230. And that general surgery and internal medicine had very similar step scores for average matched. Both close to the overall average of 230. So would an average student at an MD school have a hard time matching general surgery?

 

[Certified Corsair]

Yes, but most MD "surgeons" make $250k+ a year while DPM surgeons make $100-120k? That seems a little ridiculous and I don't buy that. Any other salary "source" I see says that an average Pod makes $150-180k on average. The average salary of DPM's in my area are $190K a year while Orthopaedic surgeons in my area make $450K and that seems very fair. So I think I'm kind of right too.

Yes those surgeons also go through 5 to 7 years of residency as opposed to 3 and pay a lot more in malpractice, and typically have worse schedules. They also have to be top of the line out of med school and don't start making the 300K+ a year for at least 5 years after residency (per my orthopedic spine surgeon). He doesn't get to use it either because he works 60 hours a week minimum. Did I mention these guys can also have roughly double the debt out of school compared to DPM?

 

[dr.phoot]

Yes, but most MD "surgeons" make $250k+ a year while DPM surgeons make $100-120k? That seems a little ridiculous and I don't buy that. Any other salary "source" I see says that an average Pod makes $150-180k on average. The average salary of DPM's in my area are $190K a year while Orthopaedic surgeons in my area make $450K and that seems very fair. So I think I'm kind of right too.

His post made no mention of salary. I don't recall seeing any salary figures in that post I quoted of his. It's his points about podiatry, the challenges, the demographic of students that go into it that I'm speaking about. He's right in the points he made; nothing to do with salary

Yes those surgeons also go through 5 to 7 years of residency as opposed to 3 and pay a lot more in malpractice, and typically have worse schedules. They also have to be top of the line out of med school and don't start making the 300K+ a year for at least 5 years after residency (per my orthopedic spine surgeon). He doesn't get to use it either because he works 60 hours a week minimum. Did I mention these guys can also have roughly double the debt out of school compared to DPM?

A DPM would lose in a game of money vrs an ortho doc. Cmon you know this. You realize an ortho can do what a DPM does? You think a DPM is fully licensed and allowed to go as far as ortho can go?

Double the debt of podiatry school? Cool. They can also make probably double the podiatry money.

Sometimes you can't help but get a sense that there's a really strong coping and defense mechanism being used by pre-pods and even some pods. The podiatrists I shadowed and admired kept emphasizing that this is podiatry. We do what we do and that's that. Nothing more or less. It becomes a problem when people try to spin things and make it more than it really should be.

Consider the points you made. Even going as far as to say the ortho doc works a minimum of 60 hrs/week and doesn't get to enjoy his money. Really?

Can't we accept that there's nothing to glorify in podiatry? It's not front page material that people are dying to see. It's not neurosurgery, and doesn't pay like derm. It's just podiatry. You do your routine care procedures and your surgical cases. If you're really good you can make some serious money. If you're okay, you just make whatever you make.

Drawing any sort of comparison to ortho and their years and malpractice and hours just sounds like a coping mechanism to me. This field really isn't for everybody....

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

His post made no mention of salary. I don't recall seeing any salary figures in that post I quoted of his. It's his points about podiatry, the challenges, the demographic of students that go into it that I'm speaking about. He's right in the points he made; nothing to do with salary



A DPM would lose in a game of money vrs an ortho doc. Cmon you know this. You realize an ortho can do what a DPM does? You think a DPM is fully licensed and allowed to go as far as ortho can go?

Double the debt of podiatry school? Cool. They can also make probably double the podiatry money.

Sometimes you can't help but get a sense that there's a really strong coping and defense mechanism being used by pre-pods and even some pods. The podiatrists I shadowed and admired kept emphasizing that this is podiatry. We do what we do and that's that. Nothing more or less. It becomes a problem when people try to spin things and make it more than it really should be.

Consider the points you made. Even going as far as to say the ortho doc works a minimum of 60 hrs/week and doesn't get to enjoy his money. Really?

Can't we accept that there's nothing to glorify in podiatry? It's not front page material that people are dying to see. It's not neurosurgery, and doesn't pay like derm. It's just podiatry. You do your routine care procedures and your surgical cases. If you're really good you can make some serious money. If you're okay, you just make whatever you make.

Drawing any sort of comparison to ortho and their years and malpractice and hours just sounds like a coping mechanism to me. This field really isn't for everybody....

You are too level headed and down to Earth for SDN haha

 

[AnkleGuy]

His post made no mention of salary. I don't recall seeing any salary figures in that post I quoted of his. It's his points about podiatry, the challenges, the demographic of students that go into it that I'm speaking about. He's right in the points he made; nothing to do with salary



A DPM would lose in a game of money vrs an ortho doc. Cmon you know this. You realize an ortho can do what a DPM does? You think a DPM is fully licensed and allowed to go as far as ortho can go?

Double the debt of podiatry school? Cool. They can also make probably double the podiatry money.

Sometimes you can't help but get a sense that there's a really strong coping and defense mechanism being used by pre-pods and even some pods. The podiatrists I shadowed and admired kept emphasizing that this is podiatry. We do what we do and that's that. Nothing more or less. It becomes a problem when people try to spin things and make it more than it really should be.

Consider the points you made. Even going as far as to say the ortho doc works a minimum of 60 hrs/week and doesn't get to enjoy his money. Really?

Can't we accept that there's nothing to glorify in podiatry? It's not front page material that people are dying to see. It's not neurosurgery, and doesn't pay like derm. It's just podiatry. You do your routine care procedures and your surgical cases. If you're really good you can make some serious money. If you're okay, you just make whatever you make.

Drawing any sort of comparison to ortho and their years and malpractice and hours just sounds like a coping mechanism to me. This field really isn't for everybody....

Woa woa back up. Did you get the impression that I thought Pods should be paid the same as Ortho? Pod's on average make 1/2 of what an Ortho makes and I'm very fine with that. I agree with you on all fronts. I'm just saying the salary numbers "I" saw seemed more realistic as opposed to the salary stated by Indeed lol.

 

[738177]

Hm so I did some quick googling and it said that the average step 1 score is ~230. And that general surgery and internal medicine had very similar step scores for average matched. Both close to the overall average of 230. So would an average student at an MD school have a hard time matching general surgery?

General surgery is NOT a competitive speciality to match into in the MD world. I know it sounds like it is, but this is actually one of the most common misconceptions out there. I personally don't think "I wanna be a surgeon" is a good enough reason to pick podiatry over MD/DO considering how easy it is to match Gen Surg. If you're against the length and rigor of surgical training in med school and have a genuine interest in podiatry, then by all means, go for podiatry. But the whole "I didn't want to be stuck doing primary care" argument against med school makes no sense considering you need board scores in the "primary care" range to match Gen Surg.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Hm so I did some quick googling and it said that the average step 1 score is ~230. And that general surgery and internal medicine had very similar step scores for average matched. Both close to the overall average of 230. So would an average student at an MD school have a hard time matching general surgery?

Depends on the USMLE/COMLEX stats and other parts of their application such as LORs, clinical grades, publications, etc. It certainly is harder to match in surgery as oppose to primary Care like IM/FM/etc as an MD!

 

[dr.phoot]

Woa woa back up. Did you get the impression that I thought Pods should be paid the same as Ortho? Pod's on average make 1/2 of what an Ortho makes and I'm very fine with that. I agree with you on all fronts. I'm just saying the salary numbers "I" saw seemed more realistic as opposed to the salary stated by Indeed lol.

No hard feelings, chief. The confusion was that you quoted my reply where I said he was right concerning the overview of podiatry. Then in that post you went on to talk about salary; that's what threw me off. You quoted the wrong post.

But yes, you're right too!

 

[dr.phoot]

General surgery is NOT a competitive speciality to match into in the MD world. I know it sounds like it is, but this is actually one of the most common misconceptions out there. I personally don't think "I wanna be a surgeon" is a good enough reason to pick podiatry over MD/DO considering how easy it is to match Gen Surg. If you're against the length and rigor of surgical training in med school and have a genuine interest in podiatry, then by all means, go for podiatry. But the whole "I didn't want to be stuck doing primary care" argument against med school makes no sense considering you need board scores in the "primary care" range to match Gen Surg.

Interesting point. Some advocated for using surgery as a selling point to get more people interested in podiatry. This really makes that argument weak now.

 

[Podstar]

Interesting point. Some advocated for using surgery as a selling point to get more people interested in podiatry. This really makes that argument weak now.

Yeah I would love to come in at 3 am for a ruptured appendix for the next 40 years.

 

[Certified Corsair]

A DPM would lose in a game of money vrs an ortho doc. Cmon you know this. You realize an ortho can do what a DPM does? You think a DPM is fully licensed and allowed to go as far as ortho can go?

Double the debt of podiatry school? Cool. They can also make probably double the podiatry money.

Sometimes you can't help but get a sense that there's a really strong coping and defense mechanism being used by pre-pods and even some pods. The podiatrists I shadowed and admired kept emphasizing that this is podiatry. We do what we do and that's that. Nothing more or less. It becomes a problem when people try to spin things and make it more than it really should be.

Consider the points you made. Even going as far as to say the ortho doc works a minimum of 60 hrs/week and doesn't get to enjoy his money. Really?

Can't we accept that there's nothing to glorify in podiatry? It's not front page material that people are dying to see. It's not neurosurgery, and doesn't pay like derm. It's just podiatry. You do your routine care procedures and your surgical cases. If you're really good you can make some serious money. If you're okay, you just make whatever you make.

Drawing any sort of comparison to ortho and their years and malpractice and hours just sounds like a coping mechanism to me. This field really isn't for everybody....

I could have elaborated further, but you misread what I said. OP is just trying to state how podiatrists make less (sometimes significantly) compared to other medical professions based on websites. I was simply giving reasons as to why this may be in real life. Not sure why you think I am hacking on podiatrists or their pride, or even where you got that from in my post.

Coping mechanisms? What does that have anything to do with comparing the jobs, I mean really? I work full time making a third of what podiatrists do and even give them test results for diagnosis or pre-op with the other attendings, but I like doing it too. After visiting a few I have actually grown fond of what they do and got interested. So lets step on the brakes before making assumptions.

 

[TrueWolverine]

I kinda just skimmed the responses so I apologize if I repeat anything but thought I would give my two cents...finishing up my first year of pod school so take it for what it's worth.

One of my classmates father is a podiatrist in Idaho and is pulling in around $800k/year. He has a full surgical suite in his practice and does surgery 1-2 days a week. A good friend of mine just started his first year of residency and their old chief resident just finished and is headed to a group practice where he'll be making ~$300k/year....his first year out of residency.

Yeah that's n=2 but it's getting old hearing people act like there's no money in podiatry. Are their people making less than the national average (which I've seen from multiple sources as $180-$200k)? Sure, but we just had one of our class reps come back from a meeting and said they told her/us not to accept anything less than $100k out of residency. If people are making less than that they're selling themselves short imo.

Don't even get me started on the whole "people only choose podiatry because they couldn't do DO/MD" topic....lots of people in my class were plenty competitive but we have our reasons for choosing podiatry.

 

[Weirdy]

I kinda just skimmed the responses so I apologize if I repeat anything but thought I would give my two cents...finishing up my first year of pod school so take it for what it's worth.

One of my classmates father is a podiatrist in Idaho and is pulling in around $800k/year. He has a full surgical suite in his practice and does surgery 1-2 days a week. A good friend of mine just started his first year of residency and their old chief resident just finished and is headed to a group practice where he'll be making ~$300k/year....his first year out of residency.

Don't even get me started on the whole "people only choose podiatry because they couldn't do DO/MD" topic....lots of people in my class were plenty competitive but we have our reasons for choosing podiatry.

....Jesus.....

 

[marinepod]

....Jesus.....

I believe it!!! The podiatrist I shadowed owns his own practice and formed a multispec. group with numerous other specialties. In addition, there is a surgical center in the bldg along with pt, labs etc. He is also the chief of surgery at the local hospital too. His advice to me after residency is not to accept a job offer that doesn't at least triple your senior year resident stipend 1st year out and by the time you are 5 years from residency you should be at least 6 times that amount (from residency) if you are good! I know that he lives in an extremely expensive part of town where the avg cost of homes is about 5-10 million$$$$ . He told me the money is there if you want it!!! Study hard, pass boards, have the right mindset on externships/matching, get the best training, and most importantly be NORMAl!!!

I forgot to mention that he said if you're an extremely competent podiatrist with good bedside manor & have some business skills like he does, that you can be in the 7 figures like he is if you play your cards correctly!

 

[Certified Corsair]

I kinda just skimmed the responses so I apologize if I repeat anything but thought I would give my two cents...finishing up my first year of pod school so take it for what it's worth.

One of my classmates father is a podiatrist in Idaho and is pulling in around $800k/year. He has a full surgical suite in his practice and does surgery 1-2 days a week. A good friend of mine just started his first year of residency and their old chief resident just finished and is headed to a group practice where he'll be making ~$300k/year....his first year out of residency.

Yeah that's n=2 but it's getting old hearing people act like there's no money in podiatry. Are their people making less than the national average (which I've seen from multiple sources as $180-$200k)? Sure, but we just had one of our class reps come back from a meeting and said they told her/us not to accept anything less than $100k out of residency. If people are making less than that they're selling themselves short imo.

Don't even get me started on the whole "people only choose podiatry because they couldn't do DO/MD" topic....lots of people in my class were plenty competitive but we have our reasons for choosing podiatry.

If you would be so kind as to have that guys father post his business knowledge in manuscript form for future podiatrists it would be much appreciated...

 

[DexterMorganSK]

http://www.acfas.org/Research-and-Publications/ACFAS-Update/Update-Issues/Update-V22I7/.

If anyone finds a newer version then please post!

 

[Nowehjose]

Listen, there are podiatrists, family doctors and dentists making $150k>. My dentist earns top 10%, because he is GOOD. Any profession has good and bad, if you start out comparing your income to the bad, of course its going to look like the profession is collapsing.

Podiatry just started to have 3 year mandated residency, so? That means in 20 years all the docs whom have "no surgical training" will not weigh down the statistics. Granted, you can make 200k cutting toenails, but still, being a pod in a rural area and not being able to do surgery is like a dentist who cannot fill cavities.

I ran my own landscaping company in high school with a few friends. With only an edger, lawnmower and weedwhacker. We almost had more customers than the actual company in our area... Why? We put more effort into each lawn. Addition we seeded, lifted and even picked up dog ****. Then, the Guido who ran the company called the Town Hall on us for not having a valid business license. We all walked away with 2-3k and bought hoopdies(I dont know any other 16yo who was making 10k+ a year at my school). We made money because we were hardworking and made the yard look specatular. Nothing more optically stimulating than the lines in freshly cut yard.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Nothing more optically stimulating than the lines in freshly cut yard.

Agreed. I could look at pictures of freshly cut grass with lines on the internet all day long

 

[GypsyHummus]

....Jesus.....

That rural and underserved area tho