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VA Hopeful Dr said:
I'm sure that does happen on occasion, but that's not the usual practice in my experience.

If my hospital did that, I would absolutely quit and I wouldn't have to move my family to find a new job. The hospital knows that as well as I do.
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I would be likely to quit on principle
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TikiTorches said:
This is more what I have seen irl
Quick Google search fm
$181,782/year$239,243
Family Medicine Physician Salary Comparison by Location
Nationwide
United States
$207,051
La Crosse, WI
WI
$181,782
Click to expand...

Medscape: Medscape Access

www.medscape.com

A little lower than MGMA but still much closer to what I'm seeing.

Oh, and I can also find random jobs to support my point:
Description

One of the top Federally Qualified Health Center’s in the nation is seeking a qualified family medicine physician to join its growing team.

Opportunity Highlights

  • Practice with behavioral health and dental providers available on-site
  • Production and quality bonus potential
  • $50,000 in student loan repayment every 2 years
$250,000 BASE SALARY PLUS ANNUAL RETENTION BONUS


The point is, while I'm sure there are FPs making what you say most of us are making much closer to what I'm seeing assuming full time employment more than 1 year into a job.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:

Medscape: Medscape Access

www.medscape.com

A little lower than MGMA but still much closer to what I'm seeing.

Oh, and I can also find random jobs to support my point:
Description

One of the top Federally Qualified Health Center’s in the nation is seeking a qualified family medicine physician to join its growing team.

Opportunity Highlights

  • Practice with behavioral health and dental providers available on-site
  • Production and quality bonus potential
  • $50,000 in student loan repayment every 2 years
$250,000 BASE SALARY PLUS ANNUAL RETENTION BONUS


The point is, while I'm sure there are FPs making what you say most of us are making much closer to what I'm seeing assuming full time employment more than 1 year into a job.
Click to expand...
Lots of fp selling their practice to big hospital systems because they can't make it on their own
 
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VA Hopeful Dr said:

Medscape: Medscape Access

www.medscape.com

A little lower than MGMA but still much closer to what I'm seeing.

Oh, and I can also find random jobs to support my point:
Description

One of the top Federally Qualified Health Center’s in the nation is seeking a qualified family medicine physician to join its growing team.

Opportunity Highlights

  • Practice with behavioral health and dental providers available on-site
  • Production and quality bonus potential
  • $50,000 in student loan repayment every 2 years
$250,000 BASE SALARY PLUS ANNUAL RETENTION BONUS


The point is, while I'm sure there are FPs making what you say most of us are making much closer to what I'm seeing assuming full time employment more than 1 year into a job.
Click to expand...
Mine showed that the average was 207k.
I wasn't just looking at the one position but the average the site showed

The hospitals I've seen ratchet down the rvu have non-compete. So to work you'd have to move
 
TikiTorches said:
Mine showed that the average was 207k.
I wasn't just looking at the one position but the average the site showed

The hospitals I've seen ratchet down the rvu have non-compete. So to work you'd have to move
Click to expand...
Do non-competes apply to non-organization affiliated practices such as private practice or DPC?

Non-competes should be illegal imo, makes no sense a business can have that much control over an area - sounds like a pseudo-monopoly if you ask me, and allows for businesses to have horrible practices with no threat of losing good workers/patients because they can't get their **** together and run a business effectively.
 
TikiTorches said:
Mine showed that the average was 207k.
I wasn't just looking at the one position but the average the site showed

The hospitals I've seen ratchet down the rvu have non-compete. So to work you'd have to move
Click to expand...
I have a noncompete, but its only 1 year 15 miles so not a big deal.
 
KeikoTanaka said:
Do non-competes apply to non-organization affiliated practices such as private practice or DPC?

Non-competes should be illegal imo, makes no sense a business can have that much control over an area - sounds like a pseudo-monopoly if you ask me, and allows for businesses to have horrible practices with no threat of losing good workers/patients because they can't get their **** together and run a business effectively.
Click to expand...
Noncompetes make more sense if you ever owned a business with employees. You pay a guy to develop relationships with clients for you and they go across the street with your clients? Nope
 
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sb247 said:
Noncompetes make more sense if you never owned a business with employees. You pay a guy to develop relationships with clients for you and they go across the street with your clients? Nope
Click to expand...
Around here at least the hospitals try and make the non-competes a pain but not awful.

The other places in town its 2 years but you're only restricted from working for us. You can go PP, VA, FQHC literally next door 1 day later and be fine.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
Around here at least the hospitals try and make the non-competes a pain but not awful.

The other places in town its 2 years but you're only restricted from working for us. You can go PP, VA, FQHC literally next door 1 day later and be fine.
Click to expand...

Sorry boss; what do these letters mean? (Beyond VA).
 
KeikoTanaka said:
Do non-competes apply to non-organization affiliated practices such as private practice or DPC?

Non-competes should be illegal imo, makes no sense a business can have that much control over an area - sounds like a pseudo-monopoly if you ask me, and allows for businesses to have horrible practices with no threat of losing good workers/patients because they can't get their **** together and run a business effectively.
Click to expand...
Yes they apply to any work as a physician within a radius
 
My non-compete is 3 years, Can’t practice primary care in the county until it’s over.

The thing is, my employer is the only primary care source in the county. And my employment contract is also 3 years. So when my contract is up, I can’t do what I want, right here in town, should I choose to.

But I wouldn’t even think of trying to open a private practice here. Too rural and poor to make that feasible IMO.

But if I did, I’d sure as hell want to do it after establishing myself in the community, which I’m doing now. I’ve got 1000 patients (started day 1 with 0) and I’ve been at this 1.5 years. I wouldn’t want to invest in a private office until I was a known commodity locally.
 
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SLC said:
My non-compete is 3 years, Can’t practice primary care in the county until it’s over.

The thing is, my employer is the only primary care source in the county. And my employment contract is also 3 years. So when my contract is up, I can’t do what I want, right here in town, should I choose to.

But I wouldn’t even think of trying to open a private practice here. Too rural and poor to make that feasible IMO.

But if I did, I’d sure as hell want to do it after establishing myself in the community, which I’m doing now. I’ve got 1000 patients (started day 1 with 0) and I’ve been at this 1.5 years. I wouldn’t want to invest in a private office until I was a known commodity locally.
Click to expand...

When you say your non-compete is 3 years and your contract is 3 years, does that mean the non-compete starts AFTER your contract expires? Or during? And does it renew, so another 3 years is added to the non-compete, if you renew your contract?
 
KeikoTanaka said:
When you say your non-compete is 3 years and your contract is 3 years, does that mean the non-compete starts AFTER your contract expires? Or during? And does it renew, so another 3 years is added to the non-compete, if you renew your contract?
Click to expand...

Two separate things.

A contract for 3 years means that whatever language is written in the contract is valid for UP TO 3 years, unless it is broken from either side (usually requires some amount notice of time to leave or be fired without cause). After 3 years you go and renegotiate your contract - your base, incentive, and the variables of your non-compete, are all up for discussion again.

A non-compete only starts from the moment you stop working for that employer. That could be 3 years, 6 months, or never (if you stay at that job all your life).

Non-compete and contract expiration have almost nothing to do with each other. If you had a contract expire and you did not renegotiate a new one (or could not come to an agreement) then the non-compete language would kick in (as you no longer work for that employer) and for 3 years you would be restricted as per the details of that non-compete (from your original contract).
 
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evilbooyaa said:
Two separate things.

A contract for 3 years means that whatever language is written in the contract is valid for UP TO 3 years, unless it is broken from either side (usually requires some amount notice of time to leave or be fired without cause). After 3 years you go and renegotiate your contract - your base, incentive, and the variables of your non-compete, are all up for discussion again.

A non-compete only starts from the moment you stop working for that employer. That could be 3 years, 6 months, or never (if you stay at that job all your life).

Non-compete and contract expiration have almost nothing to do with each other. If you had a contract expire and you did not renegotiate a new one (or could not come to an agreement) then the non-compete language would kick in (as you no longer work for that employer) and for 3 years you would be restricted as per the details of that non-compete (from your original contract).
Click to expand...

Can a non-compete be considered null if the company were to do anything wrong on their end which forced you to leave? I can't think of anything at this time like that, but theoretically? Or are the grounds of a non-compete pretty fluid during the contract negotiation phase? I imagine the more in-need a company is, the more leniency they will have in their contract negotiations.
 
KeikoTanaka said:
When you say your non-compete is 3 years and your contract is 3 years, does that mean the non-compete starts AFTER your contract expires? Or during? And does it renew, so another 3 years is added to the non-compete, if you renew your contract?
Click to expand...

3 years is during my contract time. Basically if I terminate the contract early, I must leave the county and can’t practice here until the non-compete expires. If they void the contract, the terms (including the non-compete) are voided.

In other-words, I’ve agreed not to use their clinics to generate some small but critical mass of patients and then take them into a private practice, for at least 3 years.
 
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If the area is underserved (easy to look up) I bet you could win that suit easily if they fought you for doing it. No judge wants their name painted as decreasing healthcare access.
If you think starting your own clinic is no viable, then there's no point in testing it though.
 
KeikoTanaka said:
Can a non-compete be considered null if the company were to do anything wrong on their end which forced you to leave? I can't think of anything at this time like that, but theoretically? Or are the grounds of a non-compete pretty fluid during the contract negotiation phase? I imagine the more in-need a company is, the more leniency they will have in their contract negotiations.
Click to expand...

Once you have signed, if the company broke their contract (by say, not paying you for example) first, then I imagine the non-compete would be invalidated but it'd likely require legal consultation for evaluation of laws in each state.

There are also some states that have boundaries of what a 'reasonable' non-compete is (meaning what can be enforced in court), and if a non-compete from a contract is written above and beyond what state regulations are, then you would have a chance to get it refuted in court. This is one of the main (but not only) reasons folks generally recommend a lawyer specializing in physician contract law, in the state where you plan to work, evaluate your contract.

During the contract negotiation phase - whether the factors of a non-compete are fluid are dependent on the institution. For most major academic places, I imagine the answer is (most of the time), no, or minimal fluidity. Depends on how much they need you vs how much you need them, as you noted.
 
Non-compete clauses are not enforceable at all in California, for example. In Massachusetts, they are not enforceable for physicians, sinces it's thought to be contrary to the public interest.

It all varies by state.
 
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Does anyone know of an actual suit going to court against a physician for a non-compete? Seems it wouldn't be a worthwhile financial enterprise for any CMG.
 
GeneralVeers said:
Does anyone know of an actual suit going to court against a physician for a non-compete? Seems it wouldn't be a worthwhile financial enterprise for any CMG.
Click to expand...
Yep, in my state. The cardiologist lost because the court ruled that his non-compete didn't stop him from practicing as an internist in the area only a cardiologist.
 
I laughed as walked by a office today

“family care medicine”

1 physician
6 midlevels
:dead:

also in a city, not rural, no physician shortage
 
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NYEMMED said:
I laughed as walked by a office today

“family care medicine”

1 physician
6 midlevels
:dead:

also in a city, not rural, no physician shortage
Click to expand...

It's an endless strip mall of these precise "practices" here in FL.
 
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RustedFox said:
It's an endless strip mall of these precise "practices" here in FL.
Click to expand...

It's going to get worse as reimbursement declines and documentation gets more complex. To pay overhead, physicians are going to need to see more patients and the only way to do that is to hire an army of Jenny clones.
 
Or you put the time in and rough it out with slow growth to build a practice. Having the expectation of immediately being full or rapid practice growth may simply need to change.
 
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allnurses.com

We Did Not Sign Up For This

This article was written by someone who wishes to remain anonymous. Due to the topic and emotionally charged nature of the article, the member wanted the topic ...
allnurses.com allnurses.com

Funny how suddenly people realize their limitations.
 
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Eigenvector1 said:
allnurses.com

We Did Not Sign Up For This

This article was written by someone who wishes to remain anonymous. Due to the topic and emotionally charged nature of the article, the member wanted the topic ...
allnurses.com allnurses.com

Funny how suddenly people realize their limitations.
Click to expand...

I like the paragraph where chaos is going to ensue and cardiac nurses will be delivering babies.
 
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Eigenvector1 said:
allnurses.com

We Did Not Sign Up For This

This article was written by someone who wishes to remain anonymous. Due to the topic and emotionally charged nature of the article, the member wanted the topic ...
allnurses.com allnurses.com

Funny how suddenly people realize their limitations.
Click to expand...

I think this was written by an RN rather than an NP, no? I never got the vibe RNs felt they were equivalent to Physicians, but suddenly the 2 years of NP school somehow makes them so lol. I understand the angst against NPs, but I don't know if this article in particular is a good one to enlighten us as to NPs downfalls when I'm pretty sure an RN who rightfully understands their limitations wrote it.
 
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Screen Shot 2020-03-29 at 4.09.34 PM.png
 
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$13k a week for an NP (trained online). Our world gets more insane by the minute.
$52k a month.
Meanwhile physicians are being asked to volunteer in NYC without pay.
 
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Fox800 said:
$13k a week for an NP (trained online). Our world gets more insane by the minute.
$52k a month.
Meanwhile physicians are being asked to volunteer in NYC without pay.
Click to expand...
Using our own savior complex to crucify us. And docs on this forum saying they would retaliate against any doc in their hospitals that wouldn’t work for free
 
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sb247 said:
Using our own savior complex to crucify us. And docs on this forum saying they would retaliate against any doc in their hospitals that wouldn’t work for free
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Nurses have garnered the public trust claiming they are the ones who are protecting them against the greedy doctors... while we are fighting against each other.

As someone who have been on both side of the aisles, I can tell you that physicians overall care more about their patient than nurses...
 
Splenda88 said:
Nurses have garnered the public trust claiming they are the ones who are protecting them against the greedy doctors... while we are fighting against each other.

As someone who have been on both side of the aisles, I can tell you that physicians overall care more about their patient than nurses...
Click to expand...
Agree both that we care more about outcomes and that nurses are better at PR
 
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Is there any reason in particular physicians are not being sought/looked to be given deals similar? Or are they and they're just not being advertised?
 
KeikoTanaka said:
Is there any reason in particular physicians are not being sought/looked to be given deals similar? Or are they and they're just not being advertised?
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The expectation that we should be there for the love of the game
 
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I wonder if they have the Ventilator for Idiots guide book? I would need one.
 
www.aanp.org

Joint Statement on the Role of Advanced Practice Registered Nurses

The Emergency Nurses Association (ENA), American Association of Nurse Practitioners® (AANP), American Association of Critical-Care Nurses (AACN) and the National Association of Pediatric Nurse Practitioners (NAPNAP) believe in the power of an interprofessional approach to health care that…
www.aanp.org www.aanp.org

"...our belief that APRNs in emergency care should practice to the full extent of their education and clinical training"

Sounds good.
 
thegenius said:
American Association of Nincompoops. Is that really mean of me? I mean c'mon. They want to make 1/3 of what we do with about 1/10 of the training. This isn't fair.
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Actually, there's been posts and even internal documents from AANP stating they deserve to make the SAME as physicians as they do the SAME work.

Furthermore it's more like 1/30th - 1/15th of the training of a physician. The majority of NP programs have approx 500 hrs of training. That's 100 hours hours shy of what's needed to be a dog groomer at PetsMart and nowhere near the the 15000+ hrs to be a physician.
 
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I dated an NP "student."

Online program. Hadn't opened a book in a year and a half. Zero standardization of clinical rotations.

I do believe they should "practice to the full extent of their education and clinical training." This ranges somewhere from getting me coffee in the morning to seeing a level 5 suture removal.
 
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