WCUCOM v. ACOM

[deleted896822]

sorry I see that I accidentally posted this in the med student not premed student forum

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[Rekt]

Acom

 

[NecFasc92]

sorry I see that I accidentally posted this in the med student not premed student forum

Acom. From the few people I know that go there their rotations are pretty legit. Dothan isn’t too bad either.

Not even a choice imo

 

[moyamoya6]

ACOM

 

[Epilepsy365]

There’s a third option: improve your application and reapply to MDs

 

[BorntobeDO?]

sorry I see that I accidentally posted this in the med student not premed student forum

Lol, ACOM tho, if you must. The real answer remains withdraw, make your app better and apply MD.

 

[deleted896822]

Is DO really that bad?


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[Rekt]

Is DO really that bad?


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Yes

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Is DO really that bad?


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The school is worse, however, its the penatly in the match that is what everyone is talking about. Especially for you 5 years from now, going DO will be much more hazardous.

Let me put it this way, the places I will probably match as an average senior DO student in a non primary care specialty are worse than my alumni from a couple years ago. But by the time you get here, the programs average students are getting into now. might barely be taking any DO's, if at all. The superstars will still be fine, but most likely that won't be you.

 

[Epilepsy365]

Is DO really that bad?


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Is DO really that bad?


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You have no idea until you’re a 4th yr going through the match right now.

Let me give you some truths from my in house numbers. Four yrs ago, alumni of my board scores matched to Neurology in Cleveland Clinic and UC Irvine. Now I have zero shots at those programs.

 

[deleted896822]

You have no idea until you’re a 4th yr going through the match right now.

Let me give you some truths from my in house numbers. Four yrs ago, alumni of my board scores matched to Neurology in Cleveland Clinic and UC Irvine. Now I have zero shots at those programs.

So I want to practice in EM if that changes anything; not looking for any special residency programs. My plans are to go through school and do as well as I can and practice in a small hospital in norther MS, LA, or AL.
I know EM has been one of the programs that DOs commonly match.

Does any of this “help me”?


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[Epilepsy365]

So I want to practice in EM if that changes anything; not looking for any special residency programs. My plans are to go through school and do as well as I can and practice in a small hospital in norther MS, LA, or AL.
I know EM has been one of the programs that DOs commonly match.

Does any of this “help me”?


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Your senior @Rekt is an intern in EM right now. Talk to him. But my guess is that his outlook is very similar to mine. DO schools are losing rotations left and right, even well known DO schools like Midwestern and WesternU. All the main hospitals in Phoenix are building their own MD medical schools and kicking out all the DO kids. Toxic Arrowhead in Cali is kicking out all Comp kids and building their own MD school. The bottom line is that it’s much easier to get into a MD school now than it was 4-6 yrs ago for me and some of my friends. You should def shoot for MD schools min 2 cycles before opting for the newer version of Caribbean schools disguised as DO schools unless you’re fine with FM, Peds, and community IM programs.

 

[deleted896822]

Your senior @Rekt is an intern in EM right now. Talk to him. But my guess is that his outlook is very similar to mine. DO schools are losing rotations left and right, even well known DO schools like Midwestern and WesternU. All the main hospitals in Phoenix are building their own MD medical schools and kicking out all the DO kids. Toxic Arrowhead in Cali is kicking out all Comp kids and building their own MD school. The bottom line is that it’s much easier to get into a MD school now than it was 4-6 yrs ago for me and some of my friends. You should def shoot for MD schools min 2 cycles before opting for the newer version of Caribbean schools disguised as DO schools unless you’re fine with FM, Peds, and community IM programs.

I applied to MD schools, haven’t heard back from any. Heard back from WCUCOM and ACOM for interviews. Submitted my secondaries mid August so I’m not sure if DO just runs faster or if my MD apps are dead


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[Fat_Albert]

if only AOA quit jizzing out new schools...... also, OMM is dumb af, srs

 

[Ho0v-man]

So I want to practice in EM if that changes anything; not looking for any special residency programs. My plans are to go through school and do as well as I can and practice in a small hospital in norther MS, LA, or AL.
I know EM has been one of the programs that DOs commonly match.

Does any of this “help me”?


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Your goals are very reasonable. In terms of boards, EM is very middle of the road and they emphasize their SLOEs heavily. Do your absolute best, though bc everything is only getting more competitive and you never know if what you want will spike in competition.

But the general tone is correct. If the letters after my name were MD, my current reach programs might be safeties. But I also have reasonable goals (I think) so it doesn’t matter too much.

 

[Rekt]

So I want to practice in EM if that changes anything; not looking for any special residency programs. My plans are to go through school and do as well as I can and practice in a small hospital in norther MS, LA, or AL.
I know EM has been one of the programs that DOs commonly match.

Does any of this “help me”?


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EM is DO friendly, yes. But like others have said there's a huge amount of medical students entering the match. Although, "interestingly" enough EM is probably opening the most residencies, right alongside FM. It sounds great for you, but it is actually terrible. By the time you get here, the field is going to be incredibly saturated. AAEM, one of our organizations has put out a letter regarding the concern for how many residencies are opening. Just a couple days ago Dr. Cook from Palmetto wrote a more extensive letter about it. Something like 37% increase in spots within the last four years. Sure you only want to practice is AL, MS, LA etc. Which are very undesirable areas, but I'm going to have six figure debt. If that's the only places hiring when I'm done then I guess that's where I'm going.

I honestly recommend anyone considering EM to strongly consider other options.

 

[deleted896822]

EM is DO friendly, yes. But like others have said there's a huge amount of medical students entering the match. Although, "interestingly" enough EM is probably opening the most residencies, right alongside FM. It sounds great for you, but it is actually terrible. By the time you get here, the field is going to be incredibly saturated. AAEM, one of our organizations has put out a letter regarding the concern for how many residencies are opening. Just a couple days ago Dr. Cook from Palmetto wrote a more extensive letter about it. Something like 37% increase in spots within the last four years. Sure you only want to practice is AL, MS, LA etc. Which are very undesirable areas, but I'm going to have six figure debt. If that's the only places hiring when I'm done then I guess that's where I'm going.

I honestly recommend anyone considering EM to strongly consider other options.

EM is what I have experience in. Most other things I don’t think I would care for that much.
I’ve spent the last 7 years as a volunteer EMT, 5 as an ED tech, and about 6 months working for a municipal EMS service. I just like EM. That being said, when I do rotations, maybe there’s something that the best thing since sliced bread that I have just never considered.


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[BorntobeDO?]

if only AOA quit jizzing out new schools...... also, OMM is dumb af, srs

At an interview I was at the PD actually specifically mentioned how many DO schools were opening and how there were more American grads than spots in basically everything but FM now. It is crazy.

 

[BlueBleck]

Is DO really that bad?

I'll give you an alternative answer: it's probably fine. Wait for match data. I assume it'll look pretty much exactly the same as last year. DOs won't make it into top academic programs, but will still match pretty much okay given commensurate board scores. They'll fill out community programs, and will be physicians at the end of the day.

It is true that going DO means you'll get less prestige in the long run, but I personally would not wait 2 cycles for the chance to go MD even considering that. Just by salary, two years of FM salary = 400k, or ~250k after taxes.

For anyone from california, I love the cal state vs UC difference. Yes, the cal states are less prestigious. No, i'm not sure it's worth waiting 2 years re-applying to the UCs after a failed application for the prestige boost. A degree is a degree for most things.

Something even more troubling for you is that you will be auto-denied from ACOM and WCUCOM in the future, I assume, if you decline them right now.

 

[Fat_Albert]

At an interview I was at the PD actually specifically mentioned how many DO schools were opening and how there were more American grads than spots in basically everything but FM now. It is crazy.

Yuh, it’s scary af. I’m aiming for internal medicine but still afraid I won’t match when I go through it in a few yrs lol

 

[hallowmann]

Its much better when you actually match. 4th years here seem to be stressing out since its the beginning of application cycle.

Obviously if you can easily improve your app, like with an MCAT retake, and be competitive for US MD schools that's the best options. But if you can't, you'll be fine as a DO as long as you plan given that you have a redflag when it comes to residency apps, i.e. your DO degree. Virtually everyone I know from med school that wanted EM got it. These are people with Steps in the 200s-210s up to the 240s. They put in effort, got good SLOEs, etc., and were able to match just fine.

 

[Sardonix]

Its much better when you actually match. 4th years here seem to be stressing out since its the beginning of application cycle.

Obviously if you can easily improve your app, like with an MCAT retake, and be competitive for US MD schools that's the best options. But if you can't, you'll be fine as a DO as long as you plan given that you have a redflag when it comes to residency apps, i.e. your DO degree. Virtually everyone I know from med school that wanted EM got it. These are people with Steps in the 200s-210s up to the 240s. They put in effort, got good SLOEs, etc., and were able to match just fine.

OP, there's a lot to worry about as a DO student these days, but middle of the road advice like this is the best answer.

If you REALLY think you have the time, money, and ability to improve your app to reapply to MD schools next year, consider doing that.

If you just want to do EM and understand there will be increased hassle going to DO school (OMM if you don't like it, rotation difficulties, etc.) then you will be fine. EM is more competitive than it used to be, but it's not neurosurgery or derm. If you do well in school/boards EM is no big deal.

 

[BorderlineQueen]

OP, there's a lot to worry about as a DO student these days, but middle of the road advice like this is the best answer.

If you REALLY think you have the time, money, and ability to improve your app to reapply to MD schools next year, consider doing that.

If you just want to do EM and understand there will be increased hassle going to DO school (OMM if you don't like it, rotation difficulties, etc.) then you will be fine. EM is more competitive than it used to be, but it's not neurosurgery or derm. If you do well in school/boards EM is no big deal.

Apparently everything is getting more competitive these days probably due to all the new schools opening up. But in EM new residencies are popping up every year.

 

[Sardonix]

Apparently everything is getting more competitive these days probably due to all the new schools opening up. But in EM new residencies are popping up every year.

EM and gas in particular have been hot this year.

However, I would also argue there are lots of uncertainty clouds on EM's horizon. It's really blown up in the last 5yrs or so due to the pay and shift work, in my opinion. But that may change if their compensation is reduced by no surprise billing legislation that people have been talking about.

 

[deleted896822]

OP, there's a lot to worry about as a DO student these days, but middle of the road advice like this is the best answer.

If you REALLY think you have the time, money, and ability to improve your app to reapply to MD schools next year, consider doing that.

If you just want to do EM and understand there will be increased hassle going to DO school (OMM if you don't like it, rotation difficulties, etc.) then you will be fine. EM is more competitive than it used to be, but it's not neurosurgery or derm. If you do well in school/boards EM is no big deal.

That’s sort of what I’m hoping. I work at an ED in a hospital with limited services. ED has 18 beds total, 1 trauma room. No emergency cath lab capabilities, no OB, no on call cardiology, neuro, etc on the weekends. This is the type of facility I plan on practicing at if possible, maybe the same facility if they’re have me in the future. They don’t have residents so residency will be somewhere else.

My stats are
503 MCAT (median for LSU Shreveport is 503)
3.58 cumulative, ~3.7 ish(don’t remember exactly) science.
Worked as an ED tech for 5 years, 7 years as a volunteer EMT, 6 months as an EMT for a municipal EMS service.

LORs from my genetics and micro professors as faculty. Non-faculty MD/PhD ED doc. I work with, and a PhD that used to do oncology research at one of the schools I applied to, now a senior medical science liaison for a pharm. company.

Like I said; not sure if my MD apps are dead or if I’m just impatient


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[sparkysparkyboomman]

I had a similar MCAT and got into my state’s MD school. There’s still a chance! Best of luck.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

OP I would choose ACOM over WCU. That's the answer to your question.

And what's with all the freaking doom and gloom lately all over SDN? You guys need to calm down and breathe a little geez!!!

OP, you do you Ok. Obviously if you get into an MD school this year definitely go there, but if not I wouldn't spend another year (let alone 2) just for a chance at medical school when I can go this year. There's NEVER a guarantee that you'll ever get another acceptance. People with perfect stats end up with 0 MD acceptance every year. ACOM has been doing fine in the match, they have good rotation sites, and EM is very DO friendly. There's nothing to be afraid of here, and there's not a big monster at the end of line waiting just crush your dream. People are just so tense around here because of a few negative threads about interview invites for residencies while it's still very early in the cycle. These people will be the same people that will be cheering in March whenever they actually match, and they're gonna be the same people that will be jizzing all over the "2020 match list" thread next year whenever they see the DOs that will be matching Ortho, Derm, IR, ENT, NSurg, Plastic, Ophtho, and all the University programs. Prestige isn't everything, if it was UW residents wouldn't be on strike right now.

With that being said, if you don't end at an MD school at the end of the cycle, go into DO school open minded, and be prepared to put in the work required to do well, and be ready to take Step 1 and Step 2CK along with all the COMLEX series.

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[deleted896822]

OP I would choose ACOM over WCU. That's the answer to your question.

And what's with all the freaking doom and gloom lately all over SDN? You guys need to calm down and breath a little geez!!!

OP, you do you Ok. Obviously if you get into an MD school this year definitely go there, but if not I wouldn't spend another year (let alone 2) just for a chance at medical school when I can go this year. There's NEVER a guarantee that you'll ever get another acceptance. People with perfect stats end up with 0 MD acceptances every year. ACOM has been doing fine in the match, they have good rotation sites, and EM is very DO friendly. There's nothing to be afraid of here, and there's not a big monster at the end of line waiting just crush your dream. People are just so tense around here because of a few negative threads about interview invites for residencies while it's still very early in the cycle. These people will be the same people that will be cheering in March whenever they actually match, and they're gonna be the same people that will be jizzing all over the "2020 match list" thread next year whenever they see the DOs that will be matching Ortho, Derm, IR, ENT, NSurg, Plastic, Ophtho, and all the University programs. Prestige isn't everything, if it was UW residents wouldn't be on strike right now.

With that being said, if you don't end at an MD school at the end of the cycle, go into DO school open minded, and be prepared to put in the work required to do well, and be ready to take Step 1 and Step 2CK along with all the COMLEX series.

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This is what I’ve been looking for. Really it’s going to be a mix of me and my girlfriend. She’s wanting to do a masters in counseling and eventually some psych. PhD. WCU from the numbers seems to be doing better and I assume I would have as good a chance as I would at ACOM assuming I do well on boards.

I’ll get to see ACOM in mid November so well see how I feel relative to WCU I guess.


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[hallowmann]

...And what's with all the freaking doom and gloom lately all over SDN? You guys need to calm down and breathe a little geez!!!...

It comes in cycles, usually perpetuated by a handful of frequent posters, and/or tends to coincide with stressful times in med school, i.e. Spring of 2nd year leading up to boards, Fall of 4th year leading up to interviews/the residency cycle, etc.

 

[Ho0v-man]

It comes in cycles, usually perpetuated by a handful of frequent posters, and/or tends to coincide with stressful times in med school, i.e. Spring of 2nd year leading up to boards, Fall of 4th year leading up to interviews/the residency cycle, etc.

Yeah it’s pretty negative here in the first six months of the year. Also gets pretty negative in the last six months of the year. Pretty chill outside those times though.

 

[hallowmann]

Yeah it’s pretty negative here in the first six months of the year. Also gets pretty negative in the last six months of the year. Pretty chill outside those times though.

 

[deleted936470]

these responses... anyway, OP, choose ACOM.

 

[deleted896822]

these responses... anyway, OP, choose ACOM.

Like I said; it’ll be a mix of what’s best for me and the girlfriend. I want her to be happy as well. I feel like I would be happy at either. The only other plus to WCUCOM is I plan on living in the outskirts, maybe in Ellisville or Moselle and I would be I would continue to be associated with a volunteer department and run ems calls sporadically. AL prohibits the use of emergency lights to respond to EMS calls in a POV. Not a big deal but I have a few thousand dollars tied up in medical equipment and warning lights and siren I use currently.

I’d like to work on some changes in volunteer EMS. Namely getting grants for power suction equipment and narcan If they don’t already have it. Still stuff I could do from the outside but I enjoy participating, at least on the limited level I would as a medical student.


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[deleted936470]

Like I said; it’ll be a mix of what’s best for me and the girlfriend. I want her to be happy as well. I feel like I would be happy at either. The only other plus to WCUCOM is I plan on living in the outskirts, maybe in Ellisville or Moselle and I would be I would continue to be associated with a volunteer department and run ems calls sporadically. AL prohibits the use of emergency lights to respond to EMS calls in a POV. Not a big deal but I have a few thousand dollars tied up in medical equipment and warning lights and siren I use currently.

I’d like to work on some changes in volunteer EMS. Namely getting grants for power suction equipment and narcan If they don’t already have it. Still stuff I could do from the outside but I enjoy participating, at least on the limited level I would as a medical student.


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I encourage you too look at WCU's match rates, attrition, and board exam first-time pass rates. I couldn't imagine attending WCU.

 

[WorldChanger36]

I graduated from WCUCOM and I can tell you at the end of the day it won't really matter. Hattiesburg isn't a bad southern town and WCUCOM is improving quite a bit. Also the 3rd and 4th year rotation options were great for me. You also seem very motivated to do EM which I highly recommend you continue this line of work. Either school would do you good, so if I had to choose again I would choose WCUCOM. Just know what you are getting and expect to teach yourself alot and you will be fine.

 

[deleted896822]

I graduated from WCUCOM and I can tell you at the end of the day it won't really matter. Hattiesburg isn't a bad southern town and WCUCOM is improving quite a bit. Also the 3rd and 4th year rotation options were great for me. You also seem very motivated to do EM which I highly recommend you continue this line of work. Either school would do you good, so if I had to choose again I would choose WCUCOM. Just know what you are getting and expect to teach yourself alot and you will be fine.

That’s how I learn best I think. So long as resources are there to confirm whatever thought process or conclusions I come to.
I’m very familiar with the area; grew up hunting in Moselle and some of my family also lives there.


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[WorldChanger36]

That’s how I learn best I think. So long as resources are there to confirm whatever thought process or conclusions I come to.
I’m very familiar with the area; grew up hunting in Moselle and some of my family also lives there.


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It seems like WCUCOM would be a good choice for you. Now keep in mind WCUCOM does fail out around 10% of its student every year from each class and if you want to do something competitive you really need to be a rockstar. Like everyone is saying it is going to get more competitive and if you can easily retake the MCAT and land MD you would be dumb not to. As far as DO schools go WCUCOM isn't the best but its not the worst.

Now keep in mind quite a few of us did not match and we are doing TRIs or we gave up and are in another speciality. You have no idea what the match will be like in 4 years. They could pass rules that change how many programs you can apply to, this could be helpful if you have a strong app and a good strategy.

 

[DO2015CA]

It seems like WCUCOM would be a good choice for you. Now keep in mind WCUCOM does fail out around 10% of its student every year from each class and if you want to do something competitive you really need to be a rockstar. Like everyone is saying it is going to get more competitive and if you can easily retake the MCAT and land MD you would be dumb not to. As far as DO schools go WCUCOM isn't the best but its not the worst.

Now keep in mind quite a few of us did not match and we are doing TRIs or we gave up and are in another speciality. You have no idea what the match will be like in 4 years. They could pass rules that change how many programs you can apply to, this could be helpful if you have a strong app and a good strategy.

min your opinion what would be the worst since WCU had an abysmal placement rate for the class of 2018. Not match rate, but placement.

 

[deleted896822]

It seems like WCUCOM would be a good choice for you. Now keep in mind WCUCOM does fail out around 10% of its student every year from each class and if you want to do something competitive you really need to be a rockstar. Like everyone is saying it is going to get more competitive and if you can easily retake the MCAT and land MD you would be dumb not to. As far as DO schools go WCUCOM isn't the best but its not the worst.

Now keep in mind quite a few of us did not match and we are doing TRIs or we gave up and are in another speciality. You have no idea what the match will be like in 4 years. They could pass rules that change how many programs you can apply to, this could be helpful if you have a strong app and a good strategy.

How many did not match in the specialty of choice (for specialties like EM, not necessarily the more competitive specialties like deem., ortho, etc)


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[deleted936470]

min your opinion what would be the worst since WCU had an abysmal placement rate for the class of 2018. Not match rate, but placement.

If I had to choose one, it'd be between WCUCOM & LUCOM, but for very different reasons.

 

[deleted936470]

How many did not match in the specialty of choice (for specialties like EM, not necessarily the more competitive specialties like deem., ortho, etc)


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More than 80% primary care. They are also HIDING their most recent COMLEX data, which is concerning.

 

[WorldChanger36]

How many did not match in the specialty of choice (for specialties like EM, not necessarily the more competitive specialties like deem., ortho, etc)


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Every body that wanted EM got it. The EM match for my year was really good.

 

[WorldChanger36]

More than 80% primary care. They are also HIDING their most recent COMLEX data, which is concerning.

Not really, they are hiding it because it is bad. Highest failure rates in the schools history. Also it happened to the class that got away with cheating on every thing so they earned it.

Also Carey considers EM, OB and psych primary care.

 

[deleted896822]

Not really, they are hiding it because it is bad. Highest failure rates in the schools history. Also it happened to the class that got away with cheating on every thing so they earned it.

Also Carey considers EM, OB and psych primary care.

I saw that; the 81% primary care was concerning until they explained that.


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[deleted936470]

Not really, they are hiding it because it is bad. Highest failure rates in the schools history. Also it happened to the class that got away with cheating on every thing so they earned it.

Also Carey considers EM, OB and psych primary care.

Oh OK, an important distinction, but they still cannot justify 10% attrition per year or board failure rates.

 

[Rekt]

It seems like WCUCOM would be a good choice for you. Now keep in mind WCUCOM does fail out around 10% of its student every year from each class and if you want to do something competitive you really need to be a rockstar. Like everyone is saying it is going to get more competitive and if you can easily retake the MCAT and land MD you would be dumb not to. As far as DO schools go WCUCOM isn't the best but its not the worst.

Now keep in mind quite a few of us did not match and we are doing TRIs or we gave up and are in another speciality. You have no idea what the match will be like in 4 years. They could pass rules that change how many programs you can apply to, this could be helpful if you have a strong app and a good strategy.

"WCU isn't that bad. Sure 10% of each class fails boards each year. Sure a large amount fails to match, some amount settle with something less desirable. You should go here!"



????????

 

[BorntobeDO?]

"WCU isn't that bad. Sure 10% of each class fails boards each year. Sure a large amount fails to match, some amount settle with something less desirable. You should go here!"



????????

Well he was honest and he tried to support his school. He may be a homer, but he was honest about it. Too bad the facts in this case don't really support the conclusion of WCU being decent. It actually sounds like OP has at least some reasons to want to go there. He would almost certainly regret that decision if he did, but whose to say he wouldn't regret going to ACOM anyway?

I would suggest the OP look up the old William Carey threads where their faculty started arguing with the students on SDN. Those certainly helped me chose not to go there.

 

[deleted896822]

Well he was honest and he tried to support his school. He may be a homer, but he was honest about it. Too bad the facts in this case don't really support the conclusion of WCU being decent. It actually sounds like OP has at least some reasons to want to go there. He would almost certainly regret that decision if he did, but whose to say he wouldn't regret going to ACOM anyway?

I would suggest the OP look up the old William Carey threads where their faculty started arguing with the students on SDN. Those certainly helped me chose not to go there.

Is that the same William Carey today? Or the same people rather? I know they had a big staff turnover


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[BorntobeDO?]

Is that the same William Carey today? Or the same people rather? I know they had a big staff turnover


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High staff turnover is true. I don't know if that is a positive however. Usually high turnover points to a core group holding power who others find intolerable to work with. In other words, high turnover is usually due to someone bad in a position of power, rather than a bad group being removed.

 

[deleted896822]

High staff turnover is true. I don't know if that is a positive however. Usually high turnover points to a core group holding power who others find intolerable to work with. In other words, high turnover is usually due to someone bad in a position of power, rather than a bad group being removed.

I know there’s a new dean; I don’t think much else of the administration changed. I know there’s some new professors.


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