WAMC: What Are My Chances

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
eovx3666128895 said:
I'm going to try to keep this as brief as possible. I've condensed my blurb to the most quintessential details. I'm new to this website so if I posted this in the wrong place, my apologies.

I graduated in 2013 from a decently ranked university (US News ranking between 45 and 60), with a general GPA of 3.43 and a psych GPA of 3.16. I participated in two labs during my junior and senior year. One semester in a language lab and three semesters at a neuropsych lab. I have a good standing at both labs (I'm a hard worker), however, I have no publications or poster presentations from my time there. A little after graduation, I volunteered at another university lab for a few months before the PI did not keep her word and I did not receive the training I had been promised. After leaving, the PI said I could reach out to her for a LOR.

I've also took the GRE three times and the last time I scored the following: Verbal Reasoning 160; Quant 147; AWA 4.0. Second time I took it I got 157, 162, 3.5 respectively.

Fast forward to 2017 and I'm working as a community college adviser in the math department--been doing it for three years now. I have applied to clinical psychology PhD programs twice and a family and couple's counseling master's program once since I graduated. I was rejected by all 7 PhD programs I applied to (four 1st round, three 2nd round). The professional psychology master's program, no surprise, accepted me; I did not accept the offer. I've also applied to over 30 labs and emailed 16 PIs I would be interested in working with but to no avail.

I have a strong interest in research. You might say my past does not show it. And you're right. However, during my undergrad years I wasn't sure if I wanted to do research or practice. I got interested in Psych my junior year. I changed majors from biology to psych that year. I eventually found my interest moving more towards research in developmental psychopathology but only after I had graduated.

Being an adviser isn't getting me anywhere and the pay is too low considering I have a child on the way. I am currently in the process of opening a preschool. I doubt I'll have time as the director of the preschool to volunteer part-time in labs. I don't want to do the preschool thing long term, but it's an opportunity I don't think I can afford to pass by.

So with psychology LOR more than two years old, no publications or posters, and my opening of a preschool, is it possible I could still dream of obtaining my PhD? I'm about to be 31; could I strengthen my CV/experience in a few years? Again, I would highly enjoy doing research. I'm into the stats, research methods, doing literature reviews, etc. I took part of a research program with medical students and really enjoyed it. Not to mention my interest in developmental psychopathology.

Thanks for reading. Hope to get some advise, input.
Click to expand...

If you were able to get interviews it means you aren't a weak candidate. The biggest issue is probably figuring out what your actual specific research interests are and then being able to communicate that to a program. You could also look into clinical and counseling as the training is essentially the same but with faculty who have varied research interests. I assume you're geographically limited, which might be contributing to why you've had a hard time. You could also apply to more than 7 schools. Biggest thing though is fit. It's not enough to just be interested in research. You need to have research goals and interests in line with what an advisor is doing RIGHT NOW so one thing to do is find those people and then email them to see if they're accepting students.
Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
krisrox said:
It's not horrible. Many people have been accepted with that score and lower. You sound like you do have a strong app. despite your GRE. Don't let it get you down. Apply!
Click to expand...
This is a bit odd, I know, but I wanted to take a moment and voice my appreciation for your encouragement during a very difficult time in my academic journey! I am happy to report that I did indeed apply (thanks to the encouragement of people like yourself), and I actually graduated last semester with my PhD in clinical psychology. Looks like you were right :) Again, thank you and I hope all is well!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Members don't see this ad :)
chicandtoughness said:
Hey folks.

So for the past couple of years I was trying really hard to get into a PhD program, but I've realized that research is... not my thing. I like translational research, and I enjoy the process of making my clinical practice research-informed... but I do not want to focus 6 years of my on churning out a large body of research at the expense of additional clinical experience. I'm much more interested in specializing in clinical work, but at a level beyond what a masters degree can offer (*cough*Iloveassessments). As a result, I've decided to aim for a (at least partially) funded PsyD program. I know they are few and far between, but I feel like I can make an argument for the ones I have chosen. (Rutgers PsyD is my top choice. There is a prof there I am dying to work with ahhh x___x)
  • Undergrad in economics, 3.0 GPA (ick)
  • Dual masters degree in Counseling and Experimental Psychology, 4.0 GPA in both, thesis track in both
  • GRE: 164 V / 163 Q / 5.0 AW
  • Research experience: 3 years in behavioral economics, 1 year in vocational psychology lab, 2 years in ED lab, 1 year in hospital setting, 2 years in anxiety disorders lab, 1 year in social psychology lab (I was... really gunning for a research PhD haha...)
  • Publications: 1 co-author (in prep), lots and lots of poster presentations, possibly seminar presentation at APA (waiting to hear back)
  • TA experience: statistics for psychology majors, 2 years
  • Clinical experience: hopefully 1 year university counseling center (interviewing now), 1 year community mental health clinic, 1 semester ED clinic, 1 semester career services
Any major gaps in my application? Any ideas on how I can emphasize that I actually want to attend a PsyD program and not a PhD (given my pile of research experience)? I'm just super panicking that my stats are not good enough to get in anywhere that isn't an Argosy/SPP/Alliant, and I'll have to take yet another year improving my application. I did the two masters degrees to improve on my undergrad stats, and I don't want to have to keep jumping through more and more hoops to get where I want :(
Click to expand...

I'm sure you're gonna get this from someone here but there really is no difference in research rigor between a quality PsyD and a PhD. If you get into Rutger's, you'll have to do a dissertation. Clinical and counseling PhD programs vary on how many publications you need to churn out generally speaking based on what your overall goals are. There are lots of funded/partially funded PhD programs where many of their graduates end up in clinical positions rather than faculty positions. In fact, as someone who's fairly active in a couple of divisions of APA, I've seen the job postings and it's pretty 2:1 clinical jobs vs faculty positions. The number of publications you need to be competitive for these jobs aren't as many as if you're applying for a faculty position.

I would say it's more about the fit for you and the program so it honestly wouldn't hurt you to apply to both PhD and PsyD programs and do more digging into the PhD programs with a more clinical focus. I've heard Long Island University and Yeshiva are like this and from interviewing at St. John's, it appears to be like that there as well. Why pay for a program when you get can funded? And if you aren't worried about paying either way, why not expand your search? When you get an interview, you can scope out the spot and see what the students say about the program. They are frequently very honest (because I've asked the same questions) about whether the program is more research or clinical focused and whether faculty advisors are amenable to having advisees with a more clinical leaning. Some programs will flat out state on their website they are a research driven program. Don't apply to those in that case.

Ultimately, even with PsyD programs, it comes down to fit. Research skills are important and necessary to be a quality clinician and assessments is all about analyzing dense data. Thus both quality PsyD and PhD programs will be interested in a candidate who values those skills. Think more about your research and career interests and how that might fit with the faculty there and then look into both types of programs. As for your stats, your undergrad GPA may be low but the other stuff is very strong. Your GRE scores are solid and will definitely off set your undergrad GPA. I don't see why you wouldn't get interviews so long as you don't limit yourself geographically and make sure you're a fit for that program (faculty and research interests) rather than worrying about whether it's a PsyD vs. PhD. Apply to both.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
chicandtoughness said:
Great, thank you so much for your help! I had a question about the above. A lot of current students I've spoken to said I should have a good answer for "why PsyD and not PhD" or vice versa. For those of us who are applying to both, what is a good answer to this question? Or even for individuals who are applying for only PsyD programs, what is a good answer besides the obvious ("I prefer the Vail model to the Boulder model")?
Click to expand...

Honestly, being that reputable PsyDs are about the same as balanced or more clinically minded PhDs, there really is no good answer to the question. The right answer should be along the lines of "X program offers excellent training in X and Y, which align with my future career goals, yadda yadda yadda"
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
chicandtoughness said:
Great, thank you so much for your help! I had a question about the above. A lot of current students I've spoken to said I should have a good answer for "why PsyD and not PhD" or vice versa. For those of us who are applying to both, what is a good answer to this question? Or even for individuals who are applying for only PsyD programs, what is a good answer besides the obvious ("I prefer the Vail model to the Boulder model")?
Click to expand...
I was never asked that question. But if I was, I'd answer as WisNeuro suggested above- that would show you'd really done your homework on the program.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
singasongofjoy said:
I was never asked that question. But if I was, I'd answer as WisNeuro suggested above- that would show you'd really done your homework on the program.
Click to expand...

Yeah, just focus on the experience and training. If I was interviewing someone for an internship or postdoc position and asked about why they went to X (not that I would) and they answered with something along the lines of "I prefer the Vail model" I would throw that application in the trash can as soon as they left my office because they have no concept of doctoral training in the past 20 or so years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
chicandtoughness said:
Great, thank you so much for your help! I had a question about the above. A lot of current students I've spoken to said I should have a good answer for "why PsyD and not PhD" or vice versa. For those of us who are applying to both, what is a good answer to this question? Or even for individuals who are applying for only PsyD programs, what is a good answer besides the obvious ("I prefer the Vail model to the Boulder model")?
Click to expand...

I applied to both counseling and clinical programs (all PhD) and when asked the question of why for either, I basically said that I applied to work with whoever I wanted to work with most, regardless of program type, and to programs that fit best with my values. Then I listed specific examples, like focus on multiculturalism or a clinic in house, etc... I think the same applies for PsyD and PhDs. If you have a specific research interest (which you should regardless of where you apply) then that could be the focal point of your response. Does the program have faculty who specialize in your field of interest or does the program itself focus on that area. For example, if you like health psychology, there advisors who specialize in that and programs that emphasize preparing trainees for health psychology clinical work.

I would steer clear of an answer like, "I don't enjoy research and so felt a PsyD would offer me more clinical vs research experience" because I think PsyD programs consider themselves at the same rigor as PhD programs and would want applicants to see their research and clinical demands are analogous to any other program. UNLESS of course the program website itself states it focuses more heavily on training clinicians and so then you could point that out as a selling point for you. But don't necessarily discuss your lack of love for research. Maybe talk more about your greater interest in clinical work.

I'm not sure if others on this board would have other opinions counter to mine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
chicandtoughness said:
I'm mainly thinking of schools who have both a PsyD and a PhD option (Rutgers, PAU, Yeshiva, etc.) who want to understand why you want the PsyD over the PhD. I suppose I could cite particular professors, coursework, or specialized training? I don't want to seem like I'm grasping at straws haha.
Click to expand...
Yes. Make it about the particular training and experiences that that particular professor/coursework offers and how that fits with your interests/long term goals. That's not grasping at straws at all - that's showing you know what you want and you've thought carefully about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Hey everyone,
It looks like there hasn't been a thread here on Fuller and Rosemead in a long time. I'm applying now, and I'm just wondering what my chances are. My GPA is 3.91, but my GRE is only 308- which is what Rosemead has stated on their website as a "competitive" score, but I'm assuming that most people score much higher. I have strong letters of reference (I'm told), plus research + clinical experience. My practice GRE scores were higher, and I was really disappointed with my score. I'm thinking of reapplying next year if I don't get in this time. If anyone has ideas for how to make my application more competitive, or would be willing to share their own GRE scores/GPA, I'd love to hear!
 
Members don't see this ad :)
PsychHopeful1991 said:
Hey everyone,
It looks like there hasn't been a thread here on Fuller and Rosemead in a long time. I'm applying now, and I'm just wondering what my chances are. My GPA is 3.91, but my GRE is only 308- which is what Rosemead has stated on their website as a "competitive" score, but I'm assuming that most people score much higher. I have strong letters of reference (I'm told), plus research + clinical experience. My practice GRE scores were higher, and I was really disappointed with my score. I'm thinking of reapplying next year if I don't get in this time. If anyone has ideas for how to make my application more competitive, or would be willing to share their own GRE scores/GPA, I'd love to hear!
Click to expand...

Mod Note: Merged into the WAMC thread
 
PsychHopeful1991 said:
Hey everyone,
It looks like there hasn't been a thread here on Fuller and Rosemead in a long time. I'm applying now, and I'm just wondering what my chances are. My GPA is 3.91, but my GRE is only 308- which is what Rosemead has stated on their website as a "competitive" score, but I'm assuming that most people score much higher. I have strong letters of reference (I'm told), plus research + clinical experience. My practice GRE scores were higher, and I was really disappointed with my score. I'm thinking of reapplying next year if I don't get in this time. If anyone has ideas for how to make my application more competitive, or would be willing to share their own GRE scores/GPA, I'd love to hear!
Click to expand...
I wouldn't apply to or attend either of those programs. The PhD and PsyD programs at each school are prohibitively expensive (>$28,000/year for tuition alone) and have poor internship match rates.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Hi everyone,

I don't often post on here so I apologize if I'm posting in the wrong place. I'm wondering what my chances are of getting into the clinical phd program at UNLV.

My undergrad is in psych- 3.1 gpa (psych gpa was 3.5, my minor & working full time KILLED me, hoping the MHA is redeeming)
Master's in health administration (cahme accredited)- 3.9 gpa
GRE Verbal- 151
GRE Quantitative- 151
Written- 4

I'm currently the program supervisor at a community mental health facility where I supervise the office in my county, which includes a group home for people with mental illnes, a day program and work program. I've been here about 9 months, but will have been in this position about 2 years when I apply. Prior to this position I worked for children's protective services for the state of Michigan, and before that I worked in group homes for adults with developmental disabilities (about 4 years total).

I have no research experience. I now live in an extremely rural area and have no universities near me. I have, however, started working with a group that has surveyed students at local public schools to identify what might be protective and risk factors for using drugs/alcohol. We've analyzed the results and are now working with the community to choose two risk factors to focus on and hopefully remedy.

TIA for any feedback!
 
Last edited:
rachel54 said:
Hi everyone,

I don't often post on here so I apologize if I'm posting in the wrong place. I'm wondering what my chances are of getting into the clinical phd program at UNLV.

My undergrad is in psych- 3.1 gpa (psych gpa was 3.5, my minor & working full time KILLED me, hoping the MHA is redeeming)
Master's in health administration (cahme accredited)- 3.9 gpa
GRE Verbal- 151
GRE Quantitative- 151
Written- 4

I'm currently the program supervisor at a community mental health facility where I supervise the office in my county, which includes a group home for people with mental illnes, a day program and work program. I've been here about 9 months, but will have been in this position about 2 years when I apply. Prior to this position I worked for children's protective services for the state of Michigan, and before that I worked in group homes for adults with developmental disabilities (about 4 years total).

I have no research experience. I now live in an extremely rural area and have no universities near me. I have, however, started working with a group that has surveyed students at local public schools to identify what might be protective and risk factors for using drugs/alcohol. We've analyzed the results and are now working with the community to choose two risk factors to focus on and hopefully remedy.

TIA for any feedback!
Click to expand...

The GRE needs to come up quite a bit, you're around the 50th percentile for Verbal, and low 40s for Quant. Although, the lack of research experience will be the bigger barrier, especially at a program like UNLV. Without research experience, it's going to be hard to get into a program without other dynamite stats, like GREs in the 90th%+. Also, if you're applying to only one program, even with a good GRE and research experiences, chances are very, very low.
 
WisNeuro said:
The GRE needs to come up quite a bit, you're around the 50th percentile for Verbal, and low 40s for Quant. Although, the lack of research experience will be the bigger barrier, especially at a program like UNLV. Without research experience, it's going to be hard to get into a program without other dynamite stats, like GREs in the 90th%+. Also, if you're applying to only one program, even with a good GRE and research experiences, chances are very, very low.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the feedback! I appreciate it.
 
Hey there! Applying to Clinical Psych Ph.D. programs for fall 2018, want to do neuropsych - really wanting some feedback on how likely it is that I'll get in

Undergrad GPA: 3.68 (Psychology major, biology minor)
Psych GPA: 3.89
GRE: 155V, 149Q, 5A (taking it again in hopes of raising my scores, but I've never done well on standardized tests)

Clinical experience: Currently working as a psychometrist for a group of psychologists (administer pain, neuro, kid, and kid neuro tests)
Research experience: Was a research assistant to 3 different projects at my school and 3 projects at a different school; conducted my own research project that was presented at my school's research symposium & at a school wide presentation
I also have an encyclopedia entry (psych encyclopedia entry) that has been accepted and is under publication - I was also a stats tutor at my school

Applying to:
UAB
UConn
SDSU & UC SD
Georgia State University
NW University Feinberg School of Medicine
Loyola Chicago
University of Kentucky
Saint Louis University
Fordham
Vanderbilt
UT Southwestern
University of Houston
UT Austin
University of Utah

Any feedback is welcome, thanks!
 
Last edited:
You could apply this year (after boosting your GRE score) but I think you'd be more competitive with more research experience and research products (eg, poster(s) at national conferences, peer-reviewed publications). Most competitive applicants will have more to show from their undergraduate research experiences. The clinical experience is less important. Consider a gap year to work in a research setting.
 
jpneuro said:
Hey there! Applying to Clinical Psych Ph.D. programs for fall 2018, want to do neuropsych - really wanting some feedback on how likely it is that I'll get in

Undergrad GPA: 3.68 (Psychology major, biology minor)
Psych GPA: 3.89
GRE: 155V, 149Q, 5A (taking it again in hopes of raising my scores, but I've never done well on standardized tests)

Clinical experience: Currently working as a psychometrist for a group of psychologists (administer pain, neuro, kid, and kid neuro tests)
Research experience: Was a research assistant to 3 different projects at my school and 3 projects at a different school; conducted my own research project that was presented at my school's research symposium & at a school wide presentation
I also have an encyclopedia entry (psych encyclopedia entry) that has been accepted and is under publication - I was also a stats tutor at my school

Applying to:
UAB
UConn
SDSU & UC SD
Georgia State University
NW University Feinberg School of Medicine
Loyola Chicago
University of Kentucky
Saint Louis University
Fordham
Vanderbilt
UT Southwestern
University of Houston
UT Austin
University of Utah

Any feedback is welcome, thanks!
Click to expand...
I have to agree with MamaPhD. I would suggest getting more research experience before you are competitive at many of those programs, some of which have very low acceptance rates and really emphasize research experience, e.g. both SDs.

What exactly did you do as a research assistant on these "projects?" Were you doing data entry, coding, and other grunt work or were you doing more advanced conceptual work, e.g. designing the studies and writing the manuscripts, that would have earned you a co-authorship? The former will not help you very much with admissions compared to the latter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
psyd12321 said:
Hey guys,

I am currently in the middle of applying to PsyD programs and was interested if others thought I was a competitive, below average, or above average candidate for these programs. Here are my stats:

GRE: 160 V, 157 Quant, 5 Analytical writing (1340 on old test)

GPA: Spent first 3 semesters of college studying neuroscience at a big university and received a 3.39 GPA, before transferring to a top 20 University with a psychology department ranked in the top 5 in the country. I switched my major to psychology here and have received a 4.0 GPA during my sophomore and junior years here (I am a senior now). I have received all As and A+s in every psych class I have taken, but during my freshman year when I was studying neuroscience, I received a B+ in chemistry, B- in an upper level neuroscience class, and a C+ in molecular genetics. The rest of my classes were all As and one A- in the neuroscience major.

Research: I have worked in 4 neuroscience/ psychology laboratories for 4 month periods each. I have also done an independent study research project as a class under the guidance of a professor who is writing me a letter of recommendation.

Recommendations: 1 from a professor, 1 from a research advisor, 1 from my academic advisor, and one from a licensed psyd who I have been studying psychopathology with in addition to my studies. I believe 3 of the 4 recommendations are very strong, and the one from my research advisor is strong but may focus more on my research skills (Not sure if this is good for psyd admissions).

Schools applied to: Widener University, Baylor University, University of Indianapolis, William James College, GW, U-Denver, and University of Hartford.

I am wondering if these schools are realistic considering my record? Of course Baylor is a reach. I am also hoping to be competitive for merit based and diversity scholarships (I am asian/pacific islander), due to my strong performance in my psych major. If I do not get accepted, my back up plan is to work as either an ABA therapist or in a psychiatric facility for a year in an entry level position with patients suffering from bipolar disease and schizophrenia, then reapply again.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much.
Click to expand...
I would really rethink the programs to which you are applying. William James alone is just awful. The cohorts are so huge (approaching 100 per cohort) that you're unlikely to get great mentorship, are unlikely to match to an accredited internship (<50% last year), and likely to go into heavy debt ($44,000/year for tuition alone).

I'd recommend deferring your applications to get more research experience. I wouldn't focus on getting more clinical experience, because it is rare to get the kind of experience that would actually help your application substantially (I was able to get this kind of experience and it helped my applications a lot, but my job very, very unique and rare) and the opportunity cost of getting clinical experience instead research experience is huge.

Looking the thread you started, it seems like you don't have a good grasp on the differences between PsyD and PhD programs. It's a huge misconception that PsyDs are for people who want to be clinicians and PhDs are for researchers. PhD students at good, fully-funded programs get as much, if not more, clinical training than students in PsyD programs, but they also get the great research experience needed to inform their clinical practice with the best scientific evidence and perspectives available.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
psych.meout said:
I have to agree with MamaPhD. I would suggest getting more research experience before you are competitive at many of those programs, some of which have very low acceptance rates and really emphasize research experience, e.g. both SDs.

What exactly did you do as a research assistant on these "projects?" Were you doing data entry, coding, and other grunt work or were you doing more advanced conceptual work, e.g. designing the studies and writing the manuscripts, that would have earned you a co-authorship? The former will not help you very much with admissions compared to the latter.
Click to expand...

For some research projects, yes, I only did the data entry/grunt work. For others however, I did help in designing the study and writing the manuscripts. Also, completing my own research project I did every step on my own - from start (coming up with a research idea) to finish (presenting the results). Will the research project I did on my own not help me at all?
 
psych.meout said:
I would really rethink the programs to which you are applying. William James alone is just awful. The cohorts are so huge (approaching 100 per cohort) that you're unlikely to get great mentorship, are unlikely to match to an accredited internship (<50% last year), and likely to go into heavy debt ($44,000/year for tuition alone).

I'd recommend deferring your applications to get more research experience. I wouldn't focus on getting more clinical experience, because it is rare to get the kind of experience that would actually help your application substantially (I was able to get this kind of experience and it helped my applications a lot, but my job very, very unique and rare) and the opportunity cost of getting clinical experience instead research experience is huge.

Looking the thread you started, it seems like you don't have a good grasp on the differences between PsyD and PhD programs. It's a huge misconception that PsyDs are for people who want to be clinicians and PhDs are for researchers. PhD students at good, fully-funded programs get as much, if not more, clinical training than students in PsyD programs, but they also get the great research experience needed to inform their clinical practice with the best scientific evidence and perspectives available.
Click to expand...

How would more research experience help my applications to PsyD programs? From what I've seen, I have more than enough research experience to be a competitive applicant. Totally understand what you are saying about WJC though.

Furthermore, I do understand the differences between PsyD and PhD programs. I mainly am not applying to PhD programs because I do not want to do research in graduate school. I am willing to do research next year and apply for a Ph.D. program next year if I do not get into a funded Psy.D. this year.
 
psyd12321 said:
How would more research experience help my applications to PsyD programs? From what I've seen, I have more than enough research experience to be a competitive applicant. Totally understand what you are saying about WJC though.

Furthermore, I do understand the differences between PsyD and PhD programs. I mainly am not applying to PhD programs because I do not want to do research in graduate school. I am willing to do research next year and apply for a Ph.D. program next year if I do not get into a funded Psy.D. this year.
Click to expand...

There is generally no real difference in the amount of research you will do in a reputable PsyD vs a balanced PhD program. Any reputable PsyD will still have a certain amount of research as part of your education.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
psyd12321 said:
How would more research experience help my applications to PsyD programs? From what I've seen, I have more than enough research experience to be a competitive applicant. Totally understand what you are saying about WJC though.

Furthermore, I do understand the differences between PsyD and PhD programs. I mainly am not applying to PhD programs because I do not want to do research in graduate school. I am willing to do research next year and apply for a Ph.D. program next year if I do not get into a funded Psy.D. this year.
Click to expand...
Again, this demonstrates that you don't know what you're talking about regarding grad programs. As WisNeuro wrote, any PsyD program worth attending is going to require research on par with PhD programs. More importantly, you don't seem to understand the purpose of research in grad school. It isn't simply to train students of research or TT positions. To provide competent assessments and treatments that are ethically and professionally sound, you need a strong basis in science, which comes from doing research. Even if you just want a purely clinical career, you need your assessments and treatments to conform to the latest and greatest science, which requires you to be able to properly understand and evaluate the extant research. Without doing research of your own at the graduate level, it's suspect at best that you will be able to do this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I will try not to make this a WAMC thread. If it turns into one, please feel free to move me.

I am a first year semi-nontraditional (22yo) transfer student to a top five US university (HPYSM). I have Junior standing. I come from a community college where I finished with a 3.92 GPA, and graduated Summa Cum Laude with an Associate's of Applied Science in Mental Health and Social Work. A part of this program was a capstone in Psychology, and I have four psych courses (Intro, Abnormal, Child Development, and Adjustment) on my CC transcript (three A's and an A- FWIW), as well as the four core courses of the program in Social Work (four A's).

I am interested in Clinical Child Psychology, and PhD programs, but I haven't gone the route of a Psychology major. I am a Human Biology major, which takes a very interdisciplinary take on both biological and social science topics. It involves a year long "core" of six courses, followed by you choosing an Area of Concentration and basically running with it, picking classes suitable for breadth and depth within that AoC.

I have done well thus far (knock on wood), and anticipate finishing my first semester here with a 3.8-4.0. I have also gotten involved in a psychiatry lab (BCBA) as a volunteer for credit. I will also be completing a large independent 10-week research fellowship project this summer.

In planning future classes however, I have run into a bit of a conundrum. I don't have many future psychology courses planned (as in having the PSYCH ###), despite my planned AoC being "Adolescent Psychosocial Development". Many of the courses that I believe would be most beneficial in this realm, and to an eventual PhD in Clinical Psych, are offered with the HUMBIO tag. The HumBio courses I do have planned are, for the vast majority, highly related to psychological processes. "Adolescent Development" and "Boys' Psychosocial Development" as two examples, as well as "Child Development in Contexts of Risk and Adversity" which is actually under the School of Education. Many of the core classes I'm in currently or will be taking also involve quite a lot of psychology within them - despite the HumBio tag.

The only two "PSYCH" courses I have planned at this moment are the well-known and oft-taken Intro to Psych course, and an Intro to Personality course, both of which I would not take until next academic year, considered my senior year, as I applied to PhD programs (assuming I don't take a gap year to allow for my senior year to show and gain further experience).

To wrap this up - will my course selections in HumBio, rather than the traditional Psych, negatively affect my standing in the competitive environment that is Clinical (Child) Psych PhD admissions?

Would I be better off taking a gap year in a research role, or even pursuing an MS in Psych, in preparation for PhD applications, knowing that only one year at my current institution will be reflected in transcripts right out of undergrad?

I hope this wasn't too long-winded. Thanks to all in advance!
 
No, no one cares about how your undergrad classifies or categorizes your courses, they care about what the contents of the courses are.

Do you have any research experience outside of this upcoming "research fellowship?" If so, what exactly did you do in your previous research? What is this forthcoming "fellowship" like and what will you be doing there?

Just get the best grades and as much research experience as you can.
 
psych.meout said:
Again, this demonstrates that you don't know what you're talking about regarding grad programs. As WisNeuro wrote, any PsyD program worth attending is going to require research on par with PhD programs. More importantly, you don't seem to understand the purpose of research in grad school. It isn't simply to train students of research or TT positions. To provide competent assessments and treatments that are ethically and professionally sound, you need a strong basis in science, which comes from doing research. Even if you just want a purely clinical career, you need your assessments and treatments to conform to the latest and greatest science, which requires you to be able to properly understand and evaluate the extant research. Without doing research of your own at the graduate level, it's suspect at best that you will be able to do this.
Click to expand...

In all the psyd programs I've looked at research seems less emphasized than in Ph.D. programs. Is this understanding correct? And let me rephrase, I am open to doing research in graduate school, I just do not want to do as much as a Ph.D. students do. In my career I do not plan on doing research.

With all that being said, all I was looking for from my post was whether I would be considered an above average, average, or below average candidate, as I want to be realistic and have back up plans to improve my chances for a second-round.

Thanks so much for the responses.
 
My research experience started this semester at my university, working in a lab under one of my professors. At the moment it consists of tedious tasks (data entry and truly just getting my feet wet within the research process), however he has mentioned that good interns/assistants under him can go far quickly, and that he is not opposed to allowing me to even get involved in the writing process, should I stay with him into future semesters as I plan to.

Explaining this summer's plan requires a bit of background. Prior to transferring, I worked at a nonprofit residential treatment facility for foster care youth. I was a "treatment specialist" (i.e. not the clinical team), but worked hands-on with the youth, and established quite a good rapport with the clinical staff.

My university offers a summer fellowship program where you work with a community organization (nonprofit) of your choosing in a research role, with a faculty advisor and cooperating community organization. There are two research-based courses that are taken prior to the experience, and the experience itself is a full time 10-week project over the course of the summer. You go from a research/hypothesis proposal, to execution over the summer, to presentation the following Autumn. It is independent, with faculty and community support, and past projects have even been able to be published.
 
psyd12321 said:
In all the psyd programs I've looked at research seems less emphasized than in Ph.D. programs. Is this understanding correct? And let me rephrase, I am open to doing research in graduate school, I just do not want to do as much as a Ph.D. students do. In my career I do not plan on doing research.

With all that being said, all I was looking for from my post was whether I would be considered an above average, average, or below average candidate, as I want to be realistic and have back up plans to improve my chances for a second-round.

Thanks so much for the responses.
Click to expand...
You're still not listening. You don't want to attend PsyD programs where research isn't a priority. It's a good indicator that you will get poor training. The PsyD programs that are actually worth attending, both financially and professionally, have pretty much the same amount of research commitment as balanced PhD programs. That's also why those PsyD programs, e.g. Baylor and Rutgers, are of equal difficulty in admissions to the good, fully-funded PhD programs.

And again, dong research in grad school is as much about making you a good consumer of research as it does as producer of research.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
mjr2013 said:
My research experience started this semester at my university, working in a lab under one of my professors. At the moment it consists of tedious tasks (data entry and truly just getting my feet wet within the research process), however he has mentioned that good interns/assistants under him can go far quickly, and that he is not opposed to allowing me to even get involved in the writing process, should I stay with him into future semesters as I plan to.

Explaining this summer's plan requires a bit of background. Prior to transferring, I worked at a nonprofit residential treatment facility for foster care youth. I was a "treatment specialist" (i.e. not the clinical team), but worked hands-on with the youth, and established quite a good rapport with the clinical staff.

My university offers a summer fellowship program where you work with a community organization (nonprofit) of your choosing in a research role, with a faculty advisor and cooperating community organization. There are two research-based courses that are taken prior to the experience, and the experience itself is a full time 10-week project over the course of the summer. You go from a research/hypothesis proposal, to execution over the summer, to presentation the following Autumn. It is independent, with faculty and community support, and past projects have even been able to be published.
Click to expand...
Those sound like good research experiences to have, but you're going to need more of them and they need to be of higher caliber than grunt work, though it sounds like you're on a good path if you stick with this professor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
psych.meout said:
You're still not listening. You don't want to attend PsyD programs where research isn't a priority. It's a good indicator that you will get poor training. The PsyD programs that are actually worth attending, both financially and professionally, have pretty much the same amount of research commitment as balanced PhD programs. That's also why those PsyD programs, e.g. Baylor and Rutgers, are of equal difficulty in admissions to the good, fully-funded PhD programs.

And again, dong research in grad school is as much about making you a good consumer of research as it does as producer of research.
Click to expand...
Ah, I understand your point now. So even at schools like Widener University, University of Indianapolis, University of Hartford, etc, where research ins't a priority, the students are likely getting poor training? Why do students attend these programs then?

I know graduates of some of these schools who seem to be well respected clinicians. Last year my plan was to apply to PhD programs, but I believe they are a reach for me with my statistics, and I lost my enthusiasm for research. I loved doing my own independent research in an independent study, but the grunt work and repetitive tasks in all of my other research jobs drained the enthusiasm out of me. I do not believe I would be happy doing the kind of work that an RA in a professors lab does, for the large amount of hours that Ph.D. students seem to do. So I'm in a bit of a dilemna in program applications, as I do love neuroscience and psychology, and appreciate the research aspect, but don't have the passion for it necessary for a Ph.D. program. That is why I was advised to go the Psy.D. route, and I'm still a little conflicted.
 
What are my chances?

Education:
University of Tennessee Knoxville
Bachelor of Science in Business Administration
Major: Psychology
Minor: Statistics
Undergraduate psychology GPA - 3.78
Undergraduate GPA - 3.52

University of Tennessee Knoxville
Master of Accountancy
GPA: 3.5

GRE:
155 V/ 164 Q

No research experience, but 2+ years of experience working as an accountant with my manager writing 1 of my LORs.

Misc:
First-Gen College Student
Interested in Clinical Child Psychology (mood disorders)

Schools:
East Tennessee State University
University of Maryland College Park
George Mason University
 
moodypsy said:
What are my chances?

Education:
University of Tennessee Knoxville
Bachelor of Science in Business Administration
Major: Psychology
Minor: Statistics
Undergraduate psychology GPA - 3.78
Undergraduate GPA - 3.52

University of Tennessee Knoxville
Master of Accountancy
GPA: 3.5

GRE:
155 V/ 164 Q

No research experience, but 2+ years of experience working as an accountant with my manager writing 1 of my LORs.

Misc:
First-Gen College Student
Interested in Clinical Child Psychology (mood disorders)

Schools:
East Tennessee State University
University of Maryland College Park
George Mason University
Click to expand...
Nonexistent without research experience.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
moodypsy said:
Thanks! Working on it now. Start volunteering at GMU tomorrow. Thought I would try to apply this round anyhow. Shooting for entry Fall 2019.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I wouldn't waste my money if I were you. Get some good research experience (read: more than data entry and other grunt work) and apply when you are ready and competitive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
psyd12321 said:
Ah, I understand your point now. So even at schools like Widener University, University of Indianapolis, University of Hartford, etc, where research ins't a priority, the students are likely getting poor training? Why do students attend these programs then?
Click to expand...

Because these programs are predatory and rely on students not knowing any better.

I know graduates of some of these schools who seem to be well respected clinicians. Last year my plan was to apply to PhD programs, but I believe they are a reach for me with my statistics, and I lost my enthusiasm for research. I loved doing my own independent research in an independent study, but the grunt work and repetitive tasks in all of my other research jobs drained the enthusiasm out of me. I do not believe I would be happy doing the kind of work that an RA in a professors lab does, for the large amount of hours that Ph.D. students seem to do. So I'm in a bit of a dilemna in program applications, as I do love neuroscience and psychology, and appreciate the research aspect, but don't have the passion for it necessary for a Ph.D. program. That is why I was advised to go the Psy.D. route, and I'm still a little conflicted.
Click to expand...
Look, I'm not saying that no great psychologists ever come from any of these programs. My point is that they provide poor training, so the variance in student outcomes is more due to individual characteristics than to the training provided by the programs. I.e. The graduates who are great clinicians are just great in general and would have succeeded anywhere, but the program doesn't get to take credit for their success. The programs are not providing their students with consistently good training, which is why their outcomes are so heterogeneous.
 
What would you advise in my case considering I am not passionate enough about research for a phd program?
 
psyd12321 said:
What would you advise in my case considering I am not passionate enough about research for a phd program?
Click to expand...

If all you want to do is become a clinician, you could just get a master's in mental health counseling or become a clinical social worker. People in these positions are able to take leadership roles, especially in community mental health facilities but also in medical settings. It's fewer years than a PsyD and thus cheaper, unless you are able to attend one of the few funded PsyD programs. Be aware that if you are able to attend one of these programs you will need to write a dissertation. That is a requirement I believe for any APA accredited PsyD program. There are also PhD programs that are more clinically leaning than research leaning (although they may not heavily advertise that). I've heard this about Fordham, St. John's, and Yeshiva.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
wtfook said:
If all you want to do is become a clinician, you could just get a master's in mental health counseling or become a clinical social worker. People in these positions are able to take leadership roles, especially in community mental health facilities but also in medical settings. It's fewer years than a PsyD and thus cheaper, unless you are able to attend one of the few funded PsyD programs. Be aware that if you are able to attend one of these programs you will need to write a dissertation. That is a requirement I believe for any APA accredited PsyD program. There are also PhD programs that are more clinically leaning than research leaning (although they may not heavily advertise that). I've heard this about Fordham, St. John's, and Yeshiva.
Click to expand...

Got it, I will consider those options based on my admissions results. I am also aware of the dissertation and factored that into my decision to apply. What are your thoughts on my qualifications for the programs I listed? I know Baylor is a big reach but my hope is that I am competitive for some of the other schools, which have merit and diversity based scholarships and fellowships.
 
psyd12321 said:
What would you advise in my case considering I am not passionate enough about research for a phd program?
Click to expand...

You're still not quite getting some of the major points people are trying to make. Places like Rutgers and Baylor Psyd are going to have as much of a research requirement as a balanced PhD. If you don't want to do research period, you shouldn't really be going for a doctoral degree at all. Like Wtfook said, look into masters level counseling or SW degrees.
 
psyd12321 said:
Got it, I will consider those options based on my admissions results. I am also aware of the dissertation and factored that into my decision to apply. What are your thoughts on my qualifications for the programs I listed? I know Baylor is a big reach but my hope is that I am competitive for some of the other schools, which have merit and diversity based scholarships and fellowships.
Click to expand...

If all you're interested in is knowing how your qualifications fit, I'd say that your GRE scores are probably strong enough to not get screened out but it doesn't seem like your research experience is rigorous enough to be top of the pile. There are many people who apply who have done conference presentations, poster presentations, or have a publication. They have been part of a lab for more than 4 months and can say they had a hand in the writing of manuscripts. It doesn't mean you can't get into a program without these things but you'll probably run into questions about your research experience, where you see yourself going, your population of interest, etc... Even with PsyD programs, they will likely ask you about what area you're interested in researching and will want to see that you have a clear plan and direction that is in line with their faculty. If what you want to do isn't in line with what they offer or what their faculty are doing, even the best GRE scores and publications wont get you into the school, PsyD or PhD.
 
Alright guys, I'm working on finishing up my applications and just want some honest feedback. Anything is appreciated!

GPA: 3.9
GRE:
161 V/ 157 Q

LOR: 2 very strong academic/personal characteristic from Professors, 1 decent from research advisor from respected research facility

Research Experience:
Fairly basic, but worked in 3 different labs. Collecting data/analyzing, doing extensive lit reviews, running participant, data management, using different software etc

2 internships
1 that wasn't in my field of study (but was very competitive and sounds impressive on the app i think)
1 that is at a big research facility, scoring neuropsychs/learning how to administer, learning how to use and analyze MRIs & Eye Tracking, lead to a poster and a paper in the works

Publishing: The only published work I have is an acknowledgement on a paper in my primary area of interest, and I have the poster/paper in the works from my current internship (neuropsych)
I think this will be my biggest deficit, but I do have a decent amount of research experience, just not compared to a lot of people... I'm hoping that I can show my versatility/ability to adapt to various areas of research and highlight my willingness to take opportunities to learn basics of research regardless if they are in my primary interest or not.

Schools:
PsyD: Rutgers, Baylor, IUP, Indiana State, University of Indianapolis, Roosevelt
PhD: UCONN, University of Utah, DePaul, WVU, UTSW Dallas Medical Center (Top Choice), University of Houston, and Sam Houston State

I'm hoping to be very competitive at the PsyD programs (maybe minus Baylor).. But do you guys think I have any shot at at least getting an interview at a PhD program?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread
Top