WAMC/Help with school list: UCLA undergrad cGPA 3.29, sGPA 3.18, MCAT 524

[Koboroko]

Was struggling in undergrad due to depression / undiagnosed ADHD and two terminally ill family members, GPA definitely shows it. That being said, crushed the MCAT while working full-time, 100% confident I can succeed in med school.

Having a really hard time constructing a school list though. It's impossible to compare myself to the data on MSAR since my GPA and score are on opposite extremes. Tried the med school chance predictor on prospectivedoctor, but it seems really unrealistic. Doesn't seem right that Kaiser or UCSF would be a target with my GPA so far under the average, I would think they would both be reach schools.

1. cGPA: 3.29, sGPA: 3.18
2. MCAT: 524 (CP 131, CARS 131, BB 130, PS 132)
3. CA resident
4. Caucasian / Japanese
5. UCLA undergrad
6. Been working full-time as an MA at an orthopaedic surgery clinic for the past 2.5 years, recently transitioned to head DME coordinator for the group.
7. Unfortunately no research experience
8. Have shadowed a couple surgeries in the OR, spine and total hip
9. Been a volunteer tutor for homeless youth for the past year
10. Avid rock climber, train 3-4 times a week and climb outdoors a few times a month
11. Received the Agnes Steven's Founder's Award through my volunteer organization for excellence and commitment to my student
12. Had to do 6 years of undergrad due to what was mentioned above, as well as working 20-30 hours a week and commuting 3 hours a day to get to school and back. 3 years at community college, 3 years at UCLA.

Thanks so much y'all, any advice or help out would be so much appreciated!

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[chilly_md]

Sorry to hear you had to go through experiences while being in school. Please format your post to the below template and include hour totals so we can do our best to come up with a school list and provide the best advice:

*~*~*~*IMPORTANT: How to Format Your WAMC Thread for Optimal Results and More!!*~*~*~*

Hello, and welcome to the What Are My Chances (WAMC) forum. The purpose of this forum is to Post threads about your chances of acceptance to MD and/or DO schools Have your school list critiqued and modified by other members of SDN Determine how to strengthen your current application General...

forums.studentdoctor.net

If you have an upward trend your junior and senior year, that would help.

 

[Koboroko]

Sorry to hear you had to go through experiences while being in school. Please format your post to the below template and include hour totals so we can do our best to come up with a school list and provide the best advice:

*~*~*~*IMPORTANT: How to Format Your WAMC Thread for Optimal Results and More!!*~*~*~*

Hello, and welcome to the What Are My Chances (WAMC) forum. The purpose of this forum is to Post threads about your chances of acceptance to MD and/or DO schools Have your school list critiqued and modified by other members of SDN Determine how to strengthen your current application General...

forums.studentdoctor.net

If you have an upward trend your junior and senior year, that would help.

Done! Appreciate the condolences, and yeah I had a big upward trend in my last two quarters, though the main reason for that was classes transitioned to online due to COVID. My workplace was closed down since I was working in restaurants, and I didn't have to commute which saved me several hours every day to help me focus on school.

 

[chilly_md]

Done! Appreciate the condolences, and yeah I had a big upward trend in my last two quarters, though the main reason for that was classes transitioned to online due to COVID. My workplace was closed down since I was working in restaurants, and I didn't have to commute which saved me several hours every day to help me focus on school.

How many hours have you done tutoring homeless youth?

 

[Koboroko]

How many hours have you done tutoring homeless youth?

Around 50 - 60 hours

 

[chilly_md]

I suggest applying to both MD and DO.

Try:
UCR (only if you are from the IE)
CUSM
Western Michigan
USF
Nova MD
Rosalind Franklin
NYMC
Albany
Vermont
Wake
Quinnipiac
Tufts
Drexel
Temple
Belmont (when it opens)

For DO:
Touro CA
Western
Touro NV
PNWU
KCU
PCOM (all campuses)
LECOM (all campuses)
DMU
Marian
NYIT
Touro NY
AZCOM (high tuition fyi)
ACOM
KCOM
Campbell
WCU

You will have to check for GPA cut-offs as some schools may want above a 3.2 sGPA.

 

[Koboroko]

I suggest applying to both MD and DO.

Try:
UCR (only if you are from the IE)
CUSM
Western Michigan
USF
Nova MD
Rosalind Franklin
NYMC
Albany
Vermont
Wake
Quinnipiac
Tufts
Drexel
Temple
Belmont (when it opens)

For DO:
Touro CA
Western
Touro NV
PNWU
KCU
PCOM (all campuses)
LECOM (all campuses)
DMU
Marian
NYIT
Touro NY
AZCOM (high tuition fyi)
ACOM
KCOM
Campbell
WCU

You will have to check for GPA cut-offs as some schools may want above a 3.2 sGPA.

Awesome, thanks for the input, I really appreciate it! Definitely intending on applying to a few DO schools

 

[Faha]

I suggest these MD schools with your stats:
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Albany
New York Medical College
Hofstra
Hackensack
Penn State
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
George Washington
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
Wake Forest
NOVA MD
USF Morsani
Tulane
TCU
Creighton
Rosalind Franklin
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Belmont (when it opens)
California University
Kaiser
UC Irvine
UC Davis
For DO schools I suggest these:
WESTERN
TUCOM-CA
AZCOM
CCOM
DMU-COM
KCU-COM
ATSU-KCOM
NYITCOM
Touro-NY
CUSOM
TUNCOM
MU-COM

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Explain your situation. Yours is a very good reason for having such a big GPA/MCAT discrepancy. If you want to improve your application, do a DIY postbacc. Columbia, Vanderbilt, and Dartmouth might be long-shots given your low GPA...but you've got good reasons for it and excellent ECs, plus a little bit of an upward trend, so they might overlook that if you're lucky. Your high MCAT plus the demands on your time, many of which were outside your control, puts many doubts about academic ability to bed...provided you can show adcoms that these issues have been resolved.

 

[Koboroko]

I suggest these MD schools with your stats:
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Albany
New York Medical College
Hofstra
Hackensack
Penn State
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
George Washington
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
Wake Forest
NOVA MD
USF Morsani
Tulane
TCU
Creighton
Rosalind Franklin
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Belmont (when it opens)
California University
Kaiser
UC Irvine
UC Davis
For DO schools I suggest these:
WESTERN
TUCOM-CA
AZCOM
CCOM
DMU-COM
KCU-COM
ATSU-KCOM
NYITCOM
Touro-NY
CUSOM
TUNCOM
MU-COM

Hey thanks so much for the suggestions! Definitely a huge help out

 

[Koboroko]

Explain your situation. Yours is a very good reason for having such a big GPA/MCAT discrepancy. If you want to improve your application, do a DIY postbacc. Columbia, Vanderbilt, and Dartmouth might be long-shots given your low GPA...but you've got good reasons for it and excellent ECs, plus a little bit of an upward trend, so they might overlook that if you're lucky. Your high MCAT plus the demands on your time, many of which were outside your control, puts many doubts about academic ability to bed...provided you can show adcoms that these issues have been resolved.

Thanks so much for the reassurance. It's been a stressful past few weeks so this is really appreciated!

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

@Goro, @LizzyM: this person's got an interesting application; you guys might know of schools that are forgiving of low GPA, high MCAT applicants with good ECs and excellent reasons for the low GPA...

 

[Goro]

Was struggling in undergrad due to depression / undiagnosed ADHD and two terminally ill family members, GPA definitely shows it. That being said, crushed the MCAT while working full-time, 100% confident I can succeed in med school.

Having a really hard time constructing a school list though. It's impossible to compare myself to the data on MSAR since my GPA and score are on opposite extremes. Tried the med school chance predictor on prospectivedoctor, but it seems really unrealistic. Doesn't seem right that Kaiser or UCSF would be a target with my GPA so far under the average, I would think they would both be reach schools.

1. cGPA: 3.29, sGPA: 3.18
2. MCAT: 524 (CP 131, CARS 131, BB 130, PS 132)
3. CA resident
4. Caucasian / Japanese
5. UCLA undergrad
6. Been working full-time as an MA at an orthopaedic surgery clinic for the past 2.5 years, recently transitioned to head DME coordinator for the group.
7. Unfortunately no research experience
8. Have shadowed a couple surgeries in the OR, spine and total hip
9. Been a volunteer tutor for homeless youth for the past year
10. Avid rock climber, train 3-4 times a week and climb outdoors a few times a month
11. Received the Agnes Steven's Founder's Award through my volunteer organization for excellence and commitment to my student
12. Had to do 6 years of undergrad due to what was mentioned above, as well as working 20-30 hours a week and commuting 3 hours a day to get to school and back. 3 years at community college, 3 years at UCLA.

Thanks so much y'all, any advice or help out would be so much appreciated!

What are your year by year GPAs?

 

[Goro]

. That being said, crushed the MCAT while working full-time, 100% confident I can succeed in med school.

You may think this, but Adcoms may disagree.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

So I'm going to take a little harsher tone. It's unusual since I give you mad respect for commuting to school and working for 6 years in LA traffic. However, somehow your application doesn't completely sell me that you are really from a socioeconomically disadvantaged position. You might be, but I don't have enough information to see where you would fall in the EO rubric.

I understand the skepticism from plugging in your metrics into chance-prediction programs. They are meant as tools but not definitive... just as our WAMC exchanges are. We play on probabilities, but it all relies on what you put in your inquiry.

So first off: fit with personality.
If you are an avid rock climber that also sets aside significant hours to your training 3-4 times a week while also commuting and working, this explains your low GPA to me, and it does NOT tell me that you could do better in science courses unless you actually give yourself time to focus (hence the strong MCAT). As mentioned, this tells me you can cram for exams, but it doesn't assure me that you mastered the material or study skills.

Also, if you are an avid outdoor rock climber, don't apply to schools where you clearly cannot continue to enjoy this activity. This means to me that most of the schools in the midwest and south are out. Sure there are rock climbing gyms, but I would have expected you to do that while you were in LA, closer to campus, and perhaps shorten your training to do better in courses. (I don't have your transcript, so who knows.) Perhaps WVSOM, VCOM-VA among the DO schools if you like the lower Appalachians... I need to check my AACOM map for Pikeville. RVUCOM is run by a for-profit. Maybe Touro-MT though they're super new. ICOM maybe??

Secondly, your clinical activities are related very closely with orthopedics and sports medicine. I'm missing bread-and-butter primary care in this description, so how much experience in emergency, family, internal, or pediatric medicine do you have before applying? Maybe DO is more appropriate because of OMT fitting better with what you have observed and where you work as an MA.

Third, you get some points with tutoring homeless youth, but that's not enough service orientation (50 hours, possibly the activity). Ideally your hours helping others in need from a position of humility should be evident from your WAMC description. Typical activities include food distribution, shelter volunteering, job placement services, transportation services, and housing rehabilitation. Okay if you did this tutoring in a homeless shelter, but that's not enough to stretch you out of a comfort zone.

To that end, the Service Award you mention is given to graduating medical school students. I'm confused. How did you get commended with this award if you are not a graduating medical student?

These items bring up questions to me despite your metrics story and could prevent your file from getting moved as far as one would expect.

You get my respect dealing with your family and your own health situations. Did you take a break from your education (either voluntarily or by being placed on academic probation)? I'm concerned that if you experienced the crucible of medical education that you would have more difficulty completing the curriculum without a break or LOA. Again, your low GPA I attribute to your priority and time management based on the information disclosed, not on handling your health challenges.

 

[Koboroko]

You may think this, but Adcoms may disagree.

Yeah, I do totally understand that which is part of the reason I made this post. Here's my GPA by year:

Year 1: 3.53
Year 2: 3.39
Year 3: 3.30
Year 4: 2.91
Year 5: 3.20 (Only took 4 classes this year, withdrew from Spring quarter due to family illness)
Year 6: 3.25

 

[Koboroko]

So I'm going to take a little harsher tone. It's unusual since I give you mad respect for commuting to school and working for 6 years in LA traffic. However, somehow your application doesn't completely sell me that you are really from a socioeconomically disadvantaged position. You might be, but I don't have enough information to see where you would fall in the EO rubric.

I understand the skepticism from plugging in your metrics into chance-prediction programs. They are meant as tools but not definitive... just as our WAMC exchanges are. We play on probabilities, but it all relies on what you put in your inquiry.

So first off: fit with personality.
If you are an avid rock climber that also sets aside significant hours to your training 3-4 times a week while also commuting and working, this explains your low GPA to me, and it does NOT tell me that you could do better in science courses unless you actually give yourself time to focus (hence the strong MCAT). As mentioned, this tells me you can cram for exams, but it doesn't assure me that you mastered the material or study skills.

Also, if you are an avid outdoor rock climber, don't apply to schools where you clearly cannot continue to enjoy this activity. This means to me that most of the schools in the midwest and south are out. Sure there are rock climbing gyms, but I would have expected you to do that while you were in LA, closer to campus, and perhaps shorten your training to do better in courses. (I don't have your transcript, so who knows.) Perhaps WVSOM, VCOM-VA among the DO schools if you like the lower Appalachians... I need to check my AACOM map for Pikeville. RVUCOM is run by a for-profit. Maybe Touro-MT though they're super new. ICOM maybe??

Secondly, your clinical activities are related very closely with orthopedics and sports medicine. I'm missing bread-and-butter primary care in this description, so how much experience in emergency, family, internal, or pediatric medicine do you have before applying? Maybe DO is more appropriate because of OMT fitting better with what you have observed and where you work as an MA.

Third, you get some points with tutoring homeless youth, but that's not enough service orientation (50 hours, possibly the activity). Ideally your hours helping others in need from a position of humility should be evident from your WAMC description. Typical activities include food distribution, shelter volunteering, job placement services, transportation services, and housing rehabilitation. Okay if you did this tutoring in a homeless shelter, but that's not enough to stretch you out of a comfort zone.

To that end, the Service Award you mention is given to graduating medical school students. I'm confused. How did you get commended with this award if you are not a graduating medical student?

These items bring up questions to me despite your metrics story and could prevent your file from getting moved as far as one would expect.

You get my respect dealing with your family and your own health situations. Did you take a break from your education (either voluntarily or by being placed on academic probation)? I'm concerned that if you experienced the crucible of medical education that you would have more difficulty completing the curriculum without a break or LOA. Again, your low GPA I attribute to your priority and time management based on the information disclosed, not on handling your health challenges.

Hey, thanks so much for the input, I really appreciate the time and consideration.

I totally understand the concerns you brought up. Here's a bit more information to hopefully answer some of them. So first off, I definitely didn't intend to make it sound like I come from a socioeconomic disadvantaged family. My family is middle-class, which put me in an awkward position in terms of tuition. We made too much to get significant grants, and not enough for my family to afford my tuition / housing. Most of my FAFSA award money came in the form of loans, and I opted to commute from home rather than take out extra third-party loans for housing nearby. I worked in order to pay for my car, insurance, gas, food, and to save for when I had to start paying off my loans.

In terms of the climbing, that's pretty much my schedule as of recent. While I was in school, I definitely did not have the time to train 3-4 days a week, and I'd be lucky if I was able to climb outdoors a couple times a year. Realistically I was only able to climb in a gym about once or maybe twice a week. I definitely would not mind going to school somewhere with no outdoor climbing, I would be more than happy with just a climbing gym relatively nearby since I'm already assuming most of my time would be spent on my studies.

So with my clinical experience, you are right. It has been exclusively with sports med / ortho.

And in regard to the award, I'm not sure if there is another award with the same name, but it definitely has nothing to do with medicine or medical school. When I Googled the name, all I found were links to my volunteer organization. Agnes Stevens is the founder of School on Wheels, and the award was named after her.

Finally, I did have to take a LoA at UCLA spring quarter my second year and took very few classes the rest of that year due to illness in the family. But again, that's not something I would expect to happen during my time in med school. It had nothing to do with my grades or difficulty with school, in fact I had to petition to the dean in order to extend my stay at UCLA for an extra year since they only allow two years and a quarter for transfer students to graduate.

I completely see the validity of your points regarding my application and expected these to be the hurdles I would have to jump through in order to get an acceptance. That being said, I am confident that I would be able to succeed in med school regardless, and I know for a fact that I am in a vastly different place in my physical and mental health than I was in undergrad. The challenge is to get Adcoms to see the same!

 

[Goro]

Yeah, I do totally understand that which is part of the reason I made this post. Here's my GPA by year:

Year 1: 3.53
Year 2: 3.39
Year 3: 3.30
Year 4: 2.91
Year 5: 3.20 (Only took 4 classes this year, withdrew from Spring quarter due to family illness)
Year 6: 3.25

MD is off the table.

 

[chilly_md]

OP, I agree with the above. It appears the only time you were performing near the level for MD schools would be your first year.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

My Google+Bard search mentioned it as an award for a graduating medical school student, which I subsequently confirmed with a Google search. I can see that it is also an award for the non-profit, so I presume this is clarified in your W/A description on your AMCAS. Again, we're limited with what is disclosed here.

I'm just forewarning you that you need to pay very close attention to cost of attendance. If you thought housing costs were prohibitive while you were going to community college or UCLA, you should critically evaluate the costs where you would go to medical school. While the rents may be relatively more expensive for places close to or on-campus, you need to position yourself where you can easily go to the library and return home without a significant driving distance. This only applies to your first two years since your clerkships could take you around the region (and that's where you need a car a lot). Find out in your networking how others handle the commute and how much it costs.

Consequently, if you wind up in the LA area for medical school, you should not be commuting... unless you can learn how to record your notes on audio and listen while driving and hopefully not distracted.

The UC schools tend to be very mission oriented and focused to serving their local counties and communities. Did you grow up in Los Angeles specifically? If so, have you reached out to Western in Pomona (which I think might be a good fit for you).

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

You're going to want to do a postbacc if you want MD. Good luck.

 

[Koboroko]

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who gave me input on my stats and where I stand! Much appreciated and definitely gave me a lot to think about.