Vaccine Clinics -Selling your soul or serving an important need?

[turnandburn]

I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet (I didn't see anything) but how do you all feel about working wellness vaccine clinics (Pet Vet, Shot Vet, Vetco, VIP, etc)? There are so many of these popup vaccine clinics... and there seem to be more and more appearing all the time. Is this harming GPs? Or is this helping pets who otherwise would not be able to afford seeing a GP?

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[Minnerbelle]

I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet (I didn't see anything) but how do you all feel about working wellness vaccine clinics (Pet Vet, Shot Vet, Vetco, VIP, etc)? There are so many of these popup vaccine clinics... and there seem to be more and more appearing all the time. Is this harming GPs? Or is this helping pets who otherwise would not be able to afford seeing a GP?

In this day and age where GP clinics are overburdened and can’t see all their patients for all their needs, I think it fills a good service to clients who don’t value actually having a vet. At least their pets are getting vaccinated, heartworm tested, and getting preventatives. When I have the “only rabies” clients who decline literally every recommendation I have, I really wish they would just go to a vaccine clinic becauaw they’re taking up valuable appt slots for pets that can actually use it, and for clients who are willing to actually spend more money at your clinic. When the economy is bad and brick and mortar clinics are suffering from not being able to fill their schedules, I think these vaccine clinics (similar to online pet pharmacies) fragment the pot of money the general public has to spend on veterinary services such that your hospital’s revenue can take a hit. It means you have to increase the price of nonshoppable services, and that sucks because it makes it even less affordable to actually treat sick pets.

These clinics Can be very lucrative. I have a friend who will only put in a bid for $1000+. If she wins the bid, she gets paid enough for a few hours of work so she doesn’t really care that the work is boring and not stimulating in the least. It also allows a lot of moms to afford going part time with their associate jobs and continue being a bread winner while not missing out on their kids’ lives. Not everyone wants to continue going at the actually 60hr work week despite being scheduled for 40hrs type deal forever.

 

[turnandburn]

In this day and age where GP clinics are overburdened and can’t see all their patients for all their needs, I think it fills a good service to clients who don’t value actually having a vet. At least their pets are getting vaccinated, heartworm tested, and getting preventatives. When I have the “only rabies” clients who decline literally every recommendation I have, I really wish they would just go to a vaccine clinic becauaw they’re taking up valuable appt slots for pets that can actually use it, and for clients who are willing to actually spend more money at your clinic. When the economy is bad and brick and mortar clinics are suffering from not being able to fill their schedules, I think these vaccine clinics (similar to online pet pharmacies) fragment the pot of money the general public has to spend on veterinary services such that your hospital’s revenue can take a hit. It means you have to increase the price of nonshoppable services, and that sucks because it makes it even less affordable to actually treat sick pets.

These clinics Can be very lucrative. I have a friend who will only put in a bid for $1000+. If she wins the bid, she gets paid enough for a few hours of work so she doesn’t really care that the work is boring and not stimulating in the least. It also allows a lot of moms to afford going part time with their associate jobs and continue being a bread winner while not missing out on their kids’ lives. Not everyone wants to continue going at the actually 60hr work week despite being scheduled for 40hrs type deal forever.

Wow, that's real money! I'd happily put up with some boring vaccine/prevention only visits to bring that home. I wonder how thorough the exams are. The other docs at my practice (they are older) do not look favorably on those vets running those clinics- they don't appreciate the gravy sort of wellness and prevention visits that they steal away. As you said, taking away the wellness appointments make sick appointments more expensive for everyone else. But we are having trouble getting appointments for regular clients because we are so busy.

Overall I'm on the fence. They do seem to serve a need but it does make it harder for GPs in some ways too. Vet med is ever evolving.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Wow, that's real money! I'd happily put up with some boring vaccine/prevention only visits to bring that home. I wonder how thorough the exams are. The other docs at my practice (they are older) do not look favorably on those vets running those clinics- they don't appreciate the gravy sort of wellness and prevention visits that they steal away. As you said, taking away the wellness appointments make sick appointments more expensive for everyone else. But we are having trouble getting appointments for regular clients because we are so busy.

Overall I'm on the fence. They do seem to serve a need but it does make it harder for GPs in some ways too. Vet med is ever evolving.

Oh yeah, the PE for a lot of these clinics are not thorough at all. Just really evaluating if the pet is healthy enough to get a vaccine. If the client is worried about this lump or whatever, it’s “that’s not what we’re here for. Yes there’s a lump, go see a vet for that. This is a vaccine clinic”

I don’t think I could ever get myself to do it. I just can’t stomach being there to service all the people who just don’t value what I do. But I see why people do it. And honestly, it’s smart. Why not at least have opportunities for veterinarians that want to get paid well for it? There are alternatives like tractor supply vaccines and town hall rabies clinics. These are your C and D clients anyway... You know, the saying that the top 20% of your clients bring in 80% of your revenue and all that...

I bet your bosses are also ones that don’t like humane societies, s/n clinics, and subsidized low income clinics either. I see why they feel that way. But at the same time, the profession is evolving. And currently there are enough people who value high end vet services that lead to higher transactions per visit/surgery. If we had to lower our s/n fees to get the people who use s/n clinics to come in, I would have to do multiple spays to make as much as I do on a cystotomy... and my surgery schedule is booked out for weeks as it is. Even an ear infection appt for me brings in more money than any wellness appt that these shotvet clients will ever generate. The clients that qualify for low income clinics really will not generate much for your clinic, and takes a lot of your time. So I think it’s actually a win win.

 

[turnandburn]

All really good points. I feel sometimes it does become difficult to explain to your clients *why* we have to charge an exam fee when [insert vaccine clinic] vet doesn't charge one, or why our prices are higher than whatever [insert vaccine clinic] is peddling. Our clinic tends to cater toward a lower income population anyway, and we keep our fees as low as possible, but many clients are very cost conscious and it does get exhausting trying to explain why things are the way they are.

 

[turnandburn]

I should add that regardless of how others at my practice feel, I totally DO NOT fault DVMs working those clinics at all! It's actually an intriguing idea to me. I just dislike dealing with clients comparing costs and complaining.

 

[Lupin21]

I should add that regardless of how others at my practice feel, I totally DO NOT fault DVMs working those clinics at all! It's actually an intriguing idea to me. I just dislike dealing with clients comparing costs and complaining.

The ones who complain will always find something to complain about anyway. Haha

 

[turnandburn]

The ones who complain will always find something to complain about anyway. Haha

So true!

 

[DVMDream]

I know a plethora of vets that pick up these shifts for extra cash. They pay well and do provide a needed service. The exams are no different than an exam you would provide to a pet in general practice, minus if the pet is aggressive then obviously exam is limited but it would be in a GP clinic as well. Anything they find on exam that can't be addressed, the vets recommend them see a vet at a brick and mortar clinic. Heck, I know some practice owners even that do them and can then redirect some of these people back to themselves for care that can't be provided at the vaccine clinic. It can actually be a way to talk with a group of clientele that are either not knowledgeable about how veterinary clinics run or have decided they can never afford a traditional clinic without having ever been to one. You can actually advertise via these clinics, sure it might not get a lot of clients, but you will reach a few people that you likely wouldn't reach otherwise. I think a lot of people that come to these clinics are simply uneducated about traditional veterinary clinics so there is opportunity to educate more people.

A decent portion of the people coming to these clinics are your C clients or lower, more commonly among the D clients or people that would never step foot in a traditional brick/mortar clinic due to a variety of reasons. You aren't missing revenue from them going to a vaccine clinic. The vast majority of these people are your vaccine only or rabies only clients.

These clinics are vaccinating the animals that otherwise probably wouldn't get vaccinated. So I don't see the big uproar in being upset over it. Sure, you have the few well to do people that don't give a damn or want to spend a ton of money that will show up to these clinics too, but you don't want to deal with these people in your clinic either for the most part they aren't going to spend much money or drag you through the mud emotionally before spending any money.

If there is any revenue loss to a traditional GP clinic from these it is so miniscule that if your clinic is teetering on the edge and will close because of these vaccine clinics, your clinic wasn't going to survive anyway. If that is the case, it isn't these clinics tanking the business, something else is up.

 

[turnandburn]

I know a plethora of vets that pick up these shifts for extra cash. They pay well and do provide a needed service. The exams are no different than an exam you would provide to a pet in general practice, minus if the pet is aggressive then obviously exam is limited but it would be in a GP clinic as well. Anything they find on exam that can't be addressed, the vets recommend them see a vet at a brick and mortar clinic. Heck, I know some practice owners even that do them and can then redirect some of these people back to themselves for care that can't be provided at the vaccine clinic. It can actually be a way to talk with a group of clientele that are either not knowledgeable about how veterinary clinics run or have decided they can never afford a traditional clinic without having ever been to one. You can actually advertise via these clinics, sure it might not get a lot of clients, but you will reach a few people that you likely wouldn't reach otherwise. I think a lot of people that come to these clinics are simply uneducated about traditional veterinary clinics so there is opportunity to educate more people.

A decent portion of the people coming to these clinics are your C clients or lower, more commonly among the D clients or people that would never step foot in a traditional brick/mortar clinic due to a variety of reasons. You aren't missing revenue from them going to a vaccine clinic. The vast majority of these people are your vaccine only or rabies only clients.

These clinics are vaccinating the animals that otherwise probably wouldn't get vaccinated. So I don't see the big uproar in being upset over it. Sure, you have the few well to do people that don't give a damn or want to spend a ton of money that will show up to these clinics too, but you don't want to deal with these people in your clinic either for the most part they aren't going to spend much money or drag you through the mud emotionally before spending any money.

If there is any revenue loss to a traditional GP clinic from these it is so miniscule that if your clinic is teetering on the edge and will close because of these vaccine clinics, your clinic wasn't going to survive anyway. If that is the case, it isn't these clinics tanking the business, something else is up.

This all makes sense. I see your point about referral to a full service clinic when finding something wrong that the owner wouldn't have noticed otherwise. It's interesting that wouldn't be considered a conflict of interest to refer someone to yourself at another hospital.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

It's interesting that wouldn't be considered a conflict of interest to refer someone to yourself at another hospital.

I think it is a conflict of interest, but what I think probably doesn't matter. I agree that vaccine clinics don't take a lot of income from traditional GP practices, because most of those people wouldn't go to a GP clinic for anything other than an emergency that they couldn't fix at home, if they would go at all.

 

[TheDogFather]

Count me among those who feel they provide a needed service, if not a needed service then one that a lot of clients prefer. No, you're not on the cutting edge of veterinary medicine, but how many of us are? Even if you feel its routine work, any reservations you might have are quickly assuaged by what you are paid vs. the energy and effort you expend. The money I have made from vaccine clinics has paid for in-depth continuing education (mostly in orthopedics, advanced dentistry, and ultrasound) as well as funded a pretty enviable cabinet of orthopedic equipment, dental gear, a quality microscope with high-end objectives, a very nice mid-range ultrasound machine with probes on which I would have had to pass without putting in vaccine clinic hours, two sets of premier loupes, a surgical headlamp....I could go on. To me, that just does not jibe with the oft-heard criticism that these clinics "cheapen the profession". As stated previously, the physical examinations are cursory, but we all know we are there for basic wellness and we are not curing cancer. On slower days, I have emptied anal sacs on animals that have been chewing at their hindquarters and have also done cranial drawer/tibial thrust/hyperextension of the stifle on lame dogs just for the heck of it. The crew did not mind at all and the clients so appreciated that extra couple minutes of attention. Regardless of whatever the prevailing professional opinion is of these clinics, I'm not about to stop doing them

 

[DVMDream]

This all makes sense. I see your point about referral to a full service clinic when finding something wrong that the owner wouldn't have noticed otherwise. It's interesting that wouldn't be considered a conflict of interest to refer someone to yourself at another hospital.

How is it a conflict of interest? The vaccine clinic can't provide the service so you aren't referring a client to your clinic for the services the vaccine clinic provides. A number of these vaccine clinics actually market to vets by telling them they can refer clients that need additional services back to their clinics, so they don't see it as a conflict of interest.

Sure if you started trying to prevent them from getting vaccines there and instead come to you, that would be a conflict of interest, but I don't see how referring someone to a place they can get needed services that the vaccine clinic they are at doesn't provide is a conflict of interest.

 

[turnandburn]

How is it a conflict of interest? The vaccine clinic can't provide the service so you aren't referring a client to your clinic for the services the vaccine clinic provides. A number of these vaccine clinics actually market to vets by telling them they can refer clients that need additional services back to their clinics, so they don't see it as a conflict of interest.

Sure if you started trying to prevent them from getting vaccines there and instead come to you, that would be a conflict of interest, but I don't see how referring someone to a place they can get needed services that the vaccine clinic they are at doesn't provide is a conflict of interest.

It makes sense what you are saying. I'm just wondering if the vaccine clinics worry about people leaving them and preferring the full service clinic for future vaccine needs. Probably not. I'm just hypothesizing.

 

[DVMDream]

It makes sense what you are saying. I'm just wondering if the vaccine clinics worry about people leaving them and preferring the full service clinic for future vaccine needs. Probably not. I'm just hypothesizing.

I mean they promote it as a thing so....I guess they aren't too worried about it. I doubt many clients actually go to the clinic for the other health issues to be honest so that's probably why they aren't too worried. Just speculating.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

How is it a conflict of interest?

It's not automatically a conflict of interest, but it could be. Not because you're sending them to a full-service clinic for additional service (that's like referring to a specialist), but because you are referring to a business that they may not know you own.....they may think it's an unbiased referral, when it is not. If you make it clear that you are referring to your own full-service clinic, and that they have other options if they'd rather go somewhere else, then it's not a conflict of interest.