UVA vs UNC?

[Laelia]

Hi everyone, I'm new to joining, thought I'd start off with a question. What's the general feel out there about UVA and UNC? I'm out of state for both of them, and I'm worried that my financial aid is going to be bad because of it - is this true? I liked both schools when I visited... I know that UNC is ranked higher on US News (but rankings don't always tell the whole story), and it's also good for primary care, which I may be interested in (but I'm not sure yet). Any thoughts? Thanks!

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[i61164]

Hi everyone, I'm new to joining, thought I'd start off with a question. What's the general feel out there about UVA and UNC? I'm out of state for both of them, and I'm worried that my financial aid is going to be bad because of it - is this true? I liked both schools when I visited... I know that UNC is ranked higher on US News (but rankings don't always tell the whole story), and it's also good for primary care, which I may be interested in (but I'm not sure yet). Any thoughts? Thanks!

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about how good a school is for primary care. You will learn to be a good primary care doc during your residency, no matter where you went to med school.

At UNC, you will pay out-of-state tuition the first year and I think it's about $58,000 (total budget). Your next three years will be in-state at about $33,000/yr. I have heard that UVA gives most out-of-staters enough financial aid to bring the cost down to about $48,000/yr (without aid I think it's somewhere in the mid to upper 50s). Based on these estimates, UNC would be cheaper.

You should probably apply to both and hope that you get to choose.

 

[Laelia]

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about how good a school is for primary care. You will learn to be a good primary care doc during your residency, no matter where you went to med school.

At UNC, you will pay out-of-state tuition the first year and I think it's about $58,000 (total budget). Your next three years will be in-state at about $33,000/yr. I have heard that UVA gives most out-of-staters enough financial aid to bring the cost down to about $48,000/yr (without aid I think it's somewhere in the mid to upper 50s). Based on these estimates, UNC would be cheaper.

You should probably apply to both and hope that you get to choose.

Thanks for your advice. Sorry I wasn't clear about this - I have been accepted to both - I'm still waiting on a few other decisions and waitlists, but my decision may be between these two. Does anyone else think that the primary care rankings don't really matter?

 

[CoffeePrincess]

Was hoping to restart this thread -- I'm facing the same dilemma and any opinions/advice/thoughts would be much appreciated!

 

[Nymphicus]

Thread moved to School Specific Discussions—the correct forum to discuss specific schools.

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

Go with the cheapest option.

 

[bengaltiger211]

don't think it will hurt you going to either place. at uva, the out of state cost is $53k, with possible grant of $19k per year...which brings the tuition cost down to $34k if you qualify.

when i visited uva, everyone seemed to be very happy with the institution and living in charlottesville...not to mention p/f and a shiny new med school facility.

 

[CoffeePrincess]

Go with the cheapest option.

Thanks for the input. So price would have been my first thought, but I'm an international student so no chance of getting in-state residency for either, and both cost about the same so I don't want to base my decision on price.

don't think it will hurt you going to either place. at uva, the out of state cost is $53k, with possible grant of $19k per year...which brings the tuition cost down to $34k if you qualify.

when i visited uva, everyone seemed to be very happy with the institution and living in charlottesville...not to mention p/f and a shiny new med school facility.

I got that sense when I visited UVA too, but also when I visited UNC. Both schools seem to have happy students, be located in charming small towns, and roughly the same in every other way too. I know I can't go wrong with either, but it's still such a difficult decision. Any other comments/opinions would be appreciated!

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

Thanks for the input. So price would have been my first thought, but I'm an international student so no chance of getting in-state residency for either, and both cost about the same so I don't want to base my decision on price.


I got that sense when I visited UVA too, but also when I visited UNC. Both schools seem to have happy students, be located in charming small towns, and roughly the same in every other way too. I know I can't go wrong with either, but it's still such a difficult decision. Any other comments/opinions would be appreciated!

Ah okay! That makes this decision considerably harder then I guess. Did you get a better vibe from either school when you visited? Did you like either hospital or town/location/surroundings better? Are the curriculums significantly different? Do either give merit aid? I think UVA might give some merit aid, so maybe wait and see your packages first. Are you going to either 2nd look?

If you think you might be traveling internationally a lot, then I think UNC might be easier in terms of transportation (Raleigh Durham airport vs C'ville airport). My trip by air to UVA was very difficult logistically but RDU is easier (not sure how accesible UNC is to RDU).

 

[Frazier]

Uva

 

[CoffeePrincess]

Ah okay! That makes this decision considerably harder then I guess. Did you get a better vibe from either school when you visited? Did you like either hospital or town/location/surroundings better? Are the curriculums significantly different? Do either give merit aid? I think UVA might give some merit aid, so maybe wait and see your packages first. Are you going to either 2nd look?

If you think you might be traveling internationally a lot, then I think UNC might be easier in terms of transportation (Raleigh Durham airport vs C'ville airport). My trip by air to UVA was very difficult logistically but RDU is easier (not sure how accesible UNC is to RDU).

Got great vibes from both schools (although I didn't get to see much of Chapel Hill's downtown area). One thing I have noticed, though, is that UVA's admissions office is more organized and prompt than UNC's, but I doubt if that's a good enough reason to chose one over the other.

Both schools had their second looks on the same day and so I went to UVAs because UNC was my last interview and I remember pretty much everything from my visit. Completely agree about ease of flying at UNC vs at UVA, though.

The curricula are significantly different (1.5 pre-clinical years both p/f at UVA, vs 2 pre-clinical years p/f and hp/p/f at UNC), I wonder if the high pass/pass/fail system in second year at UNC would be significantly more stressful?? And I wonder if I would feel more at home in UVA's more diverse student body

Gah! I haven't come across any negative aspects about either school (which actually would have helped to make my decision easier). But thanks for your input SDNers!

 

[SSCCSS]

Got great vibes from both schools (although I didn't get to see much of Chapel Hill's downtown area). One thing I have noticed, though, is that UVA's admissions office is more organized and prompt than UNC's, but I doubt if that's a good enough reason to chose one over the other.

Both schools had their second looks on the same day and so I went to UVAs because UNC was my last interview and I remember pretty much everything from my visit. Completely agree about ease of flying at UNC vs at UVA, though.

The curricula are significantly different (1.5 pre-clinical years both p/f at UVA, vs 2 pre-clinical years p/f and hp/p/f at UNC), I wonder if the high pass/pass/fail system in second year at UNC would be significantly more stressful?? And I wonder if I would feel more at home in UVA's more diverse student body

Gah! I haven't come across any negative aspects about either school (which actually would have helped to make my decision easier). But thanks for your input SDNers!

I'll offer some info about UNC (I know very little about UVa).

The second year at UNC is not any more stressful because of the introduction of the H/P/F system than the first. Students naturally get more stressed toward the end of the second year as they prepare for Step I; however, students are relaxed and happy both years. Those students I know who matched this year and last said they learned on the residency interview trail that the performance in the second year is dwarfed by Step I and II scores and evaluations from the third year in terms of importance. Accordingly, students don't sweat it too much. Each class is divided between academic colleges and each college hosts social events throughout the year. Nearly as many second years show up to those events as first years, and second years and first years are often out at the same non-med social events.

Is UVa's curriculum new or one that has cycled through several classes? That's always an important consideration.

Do have any interest in getting a second degree while in med school? UNC's School of Public Health is one of the best in the world and many, many med students earn their MPH between the third and fourth years. In fact, several faculty members are dually appointed between both schools, whether through teaching or research, and there is a tremendous sense of collaboration on the SOM campus. The SPH also offers one of the best MHA programs in the country. There is an MD/MBA offering, as well. Not sure what UVa has in terms of dual degree opportunities.

UNC provides a ton of research (basic science, clinical, translational, public health) opportunities to med students. For those students I know interested in specializing in competitive fields (ENT, ortho, etc), they've never had a problem securing a research position.The same goes for international opportunities. I know of people in every class who have taken trips abroad, whether as a supplemental experience or as an actual elective that counts toward graduation. Generally, UNC is very flexible and encourages students to create their own experience during their 4-5 years on campus.

The clinical experience at UNC is probably its biggest MD educational selling point. You will rotate around the state, including between 3 Level I Trauma Centers - UNC, WakeMed (Raleigh), and CMC (Charlotte). You'll also get exposure to smaller hospitals and practices. That's not to say you'll be in a new city every 4-8 weeks during third year but that you'll have the opportunity here and there to train somewhere new and different from what you see in Chapel Hill. Again, significant flexibility is afforded to students in creating their fourth year elective schedule, whether at UNC or elsewhere.

In terms of living, how do the costs of living compare? What about life outside of school? While there is plenty to do in Chapel Hill, the town and its residents benefit from being a 10-15 minute drive from downtown Durham, where there is art, food, breweries, minor league baseball. There is a ton to do in Durham - a city amid a tremendous resurgence. Raleigh is 20-30 minutes away and offers even more things to do. Is Charlottesville that close to other cities of interest? UNC students definitely take advantage of their Triangle neighbors. Further, Chapel Hill is about 2 hours from some great beaches and 3 hours from the mountains.

Finally, in terms of reputation, they are both probably equally strong. UNC has hovered in the research rankings between 18-22 for a while now. If research is your interest, UNC is probably a bit stronger than UVa. Also, UNC is now #1 in the primary care rankings. Not sure rankings are all that helpful at this point, though. Regardless, each exists in a great college town and support student bodies who are known for being very friendly and happy.

Best of luck with your decision.

 

[GrabSlamBoot]

UVA in my opinion. The location is better imho. I don't think either has a leg up In reputation. Pretty even. I would prefer the shortened curriculum just bc it may give you the opportunity to pursue other interests more so than a two year. Also I don't like the thought if sitting in class two years. Either school will give you the opportunity to rotate and great hospitals so I'd say they are tied there. Doesn't UVA gave brand spanking new facilities? UNC was kind of un impressive in that regard.

I vote UVA but both are solid picks. Best of luck to you!!

Sent from my IPhone

 

[publicschooler]

I interviewed at both schools and don't see too many similarities between these two besides the environment; both are located in college towns. As you've noted, UVA's admissions process is well organized, whereas UNC's seems to be stuck in the 1990s (but this doesn't matter to you anymore). The curriculum's are vastly different. UVA is very pbl/small group heavy, UNC is a more traditional curriculum. Which of those is better depends on the individual (are you a group learner, you better be if you go to UVA). The other big difference I noticed was that UVA felt more like a private school, there are more OOS students (50% or something), less focus (is there any?) on primary care, and the facilities are beautiful. UNC on the other hand is 80% IS, has a primary care mission, and the facilities are average. Not sure how these schools do in the match, although I remember hearing that UVA's step1 average was ~235, so along with the difference in the schools' missions, I wouldn't be surprised if UVA students tended towards more prestigious residencies.

 

[SSCCSS]

I interviewed at both schools and don't see too many similarities between these two besides the environment; both are located in college towns. As you've noted, UVA's admissions process is well organized, whereas UNC's seems to be stuck in the 1990s (but this doesn't matter to you anymore). The curriculum's are vastly different. UVA is very pbl/small group heavy, UNC is a more traditional curriculum. Which of those is better depends on the individual (are you a group learner, you better be if you go to UVA). The other big difference I noticed was that UVA felt more like a private school, there are more OOS students (50% or something), less focus (is there any?) on primary care, and the facilities are beautiful. UNC on the other hand is 80% IS, has a primary care mission, and the facilities are average. Not sure how these schools do in the match, although I remember hearing that UVA's step1 average was ~235, so along with the difference in the schools' missions, I wouldn't be surprised if UVA students tended towards more prestigious residencies.

Eh, if you haven't looked at the match lists, how you can even suggest this?

Just compare their match lists - a ton of students at both schools enter primary care (family, internal, OB/GYN, peds, emergency) and plenty place into competitive ('prestigious') specialties.

UNC doesn't admit students based on their proclivity to primary care or specialty medicine. And the school certainly doesn't steer students toward primary care. It is a huge research institution, the funding for which increases every year. Students at UNC who wish to go into plastics, ortho, ENT have no problem preparing to do so. If you have no interest in primary care, your experience at UNC is in no way impacted.

 

[publicschooler]

Eh, if you haven't looked at the match lists, how you can even suggest this?

Just compare their match lists - a ton of students at both schools enter primary care (family, internal, OB/GYN, peds, emergency) and plenty place into competitive ('prestigious') specialties.

UNC doesn't admit students based on their proclivity to primary care or specialty medicine. And the school certainly doesn't steer students toward primary care. It is a huge research institution, the funding for which increases every year. Students at UNC who wish to go into plastics, ortho, ENT have no problem preparing to do so. If you have no interest in primary care, your experience at UNC is in no way impacted.

Not sure how suggesting that implies that UNC actively steers students towards primary care and/or dissuades their students from applying for competitive specialties. I don't doubt UNC students match into their residency of choice, which could even be a primary care specialty. I was merely trying to highlight some obvious differences I noticed between these two schools in terms of curriculum, mission, and class composition, and that given those differences why I would not be surprised if a larger proportion of UNC students pursued primary care than UVA students. To be clear, neither school will limit you OP, however if you do notice that UNC matches more into primary care that its not because of some difference in school quality. UVA just has more OOS students with high debt and, it seems to me, less of an institutional focus on primary care than UNC.

 

[TheonGreyjoy]

Not sure how suggesting that implies that UNC actively steers students towards primary care and/or dissuades their students from applying for competitive specialties. I don't doubt UNC students match into their residency of choice, which could even be a primary care specialty. I was merely trying to highlight some obvious differences I noticed between these two schools in terms of curriculum, mission, and class composition, and that given those differences why I would not be surprised if a larger proportion of UNC students pursued primary care than UVA students. To be clear, neither school will limit you OP, however if you do notice that UNC matches more into primary care that its not because of some difference in school quality. UVA just has more OOS students with high debt and, it seems to me, less of an institutional focus on primary care than UNC.

I agree with this. I think its silly to say that UNC does not have a focus on primary care....60% of their graduates matched into primary care specialties when you average 2010-12 according to USNews. I'm not saying that going to UNC would limit you in anyway, but there is no denying the mission of the school, and the preferences of many of the students (for one reason or another) are geared towards primary care.

 

[CoffeePrincess]

Thanks everyone.

I'm thinking about doing an MPH and I'm also considering going into OB/GYN which I believe is considered to be under primary care, so UNC may be the place to be. However, I find it hard to believe that the switch to H/P/F wouldn't put any extra stress on the 2nd years? (So many current students I met on my interview days stressed the benefits of having both years P/F which is why I'm so concerned about this.)

Does anyone know how to get hold of UNC's matchlist? I know UVA sent a copy to all admitted students, but haven't received any information about that from UNC. And where does one get info about average step 1 scores?

 

[publicschooler]

Thanks everyone.

I'm thinking about doing an MPH and I'm also considering going into OB/GYN which I believe is considered to be under primary care, so UNC may be the place to be. However, I find it hard to believe that the switch to H/P/F wouldn't put any extra stress on the 2nd years? (So many current students I met on my interview days stressed the benefits of having both years P/F which is why I'm so concerned about this.)

Does anyone know how to get hold of UNC's matchlist? I know UVA sent a copy to all admitted students, but haven't received any information about that from UNC. And where does one get info about average step 1 scores?

I personally wouldn't worry about H/P/F second year, residencies place less and less emphasis on preclinical grades (mostly because many schools have gotten rid of them). UNC publishes some match lists on their website, although I'm not sure they have the most recent one up there yet. Step 1 averages are available on US News (you'll have to get that info from a paying subscriber). Based on your interests I'd probably go UNC. Way more public health opportunities (research funding), plus it should be cheaper if you get instate tuition for MS2-4.

 

[wanderedtoolong]

I personally wouldn't worry about H/P/F second year, residencies place less and less emphasis on preclinical grades (mostly because many schools have gotten rid of them). UNC publishes some match lists on their website, although I'm not sure they have the most recent one up there yet. Step 1 averages are available on US News (you'll have to get that info from a paying subscriber). Based on your interests I'd probably go UNC. Way more public health opportunities (research funding), plus it should be cheaper if you get instate tuition for MS2-4.

I would check with current students/financial aid but I'm pretty sure that if you enter OOS at UNC, you're OOS the entire four years for tuition purposes. The classification rules explicitly state that you have to move there for reasons other than attending school. The graduate programs (non professional school) work around this because PhD students do get paid for either TA or RA and pay some state taxes, and the department is responsible for their tuition, but I'm pretty sure that for medical school, just like the undergraduates, you cannot become a resident if you move here for school.

 

[CoffeePrincess]

I personally wouldn't worry about H/P/F second year, residencies place less and less emphasis on preclinical grades (mostly because many schools have gotten rid of them). UNC publishes some match lists on their website, although I'm not sure they have the most recent one up there yet. Step 1 averages are available on US News (you'll have to get that info from a paying subscriber). Based on your interests I'd probably go UNC. Way more public health opportunities (research funding), plus it should be cheaper if you get instate tuition for MS2-4.

I would check with current students/financial aid but I'm pretty sure that if you enter OOS at UNC, you're OOS the entire four years for tuition purposes. The classification rules explicitly state that you have to move there for reasons other than attending school. The graduate programs (non professional school) work around this because PhD students do get paid for either TA or RA and pay some state taxes, and the department is responsible for their tuition, but I'm pretty sure that for medical school, just like the undergraduates, you cannot become a resident if you move here for school.

Thanks for this, but as I said earlier, I am an international student so whether or not I can get in-state residency is not a concern of mine.

 

[mvenus929]

I'm a UVA student, so I'll address some of the things brought up.

Is UVa's curriculum new or one that has cycled through several classes? That's always an important consideration.

It's been vetted. My class was the first through (I'm a rising fourth year).

Not sure what UVa has in terms of dual degree opportunities.

An MPH is offered, as is an MBA. I believe we also have a few other dual degree programs, but they're obviously not as popular.

UNC provides a ton of research (basic science, clinical, translational, public health) opportunities to med students.[...]The same goes for international opportunities.

There is a summer research program for first year students. And if you're interested in research, it's not that difficult to get involved, you just have to make your interest known. You can earn up to 12 weeks of research credit during fourth year as well, should you so desire.

As for international electives, there's also a number of those you can do your first summer. Most of my classmates seem to be scheduling international electives for fourth year as well... Guatemala is particularly popular, but we also have the Semester At Sea program run out of UVA (as a med student, you do a month as the ship's doctor, as well as learn about medicine in the countries of the ports of call). There are several African opportunities as well. And, of course, there's also the AMSA international rotations.

The clinical experience at UNC is probably its biggest MD educational selling point. You will rotate around the state, including between 3 Level I Trauma Centers - UNC, WakeMed (Raleigh), and CMC (Charlotte). You'll also get exposure to smaller hospitals and practices. That's not to say you'll be in a new city every 4-8 weeks during third year but that you'll have the opportunity here and there to train somewhere new and different from what you see in Chapel Hill. Again, significant flexibility is afforded to students in creating their fourth year elective schedule, whether at UNC or elsewhere.

We don't necessarily rotate through 2 level 1 trauma centers, but we do have away rotations during third year as well--some people like this, and others don't. For Family Medicine and Outpatient Internal Medicine, students work in private practice clinics, usually one-on-one with a preceptor (some students have multiple preceptors). These could be in rural settings where you also work in the hospital or in more urban settings where your focus is outpatient. We also are able to rotate at the Salem VA hospital, Western State Psychiatric hospital, Fairfax INOVA hospital, and Bon Secours hospital system in Richmond. You are generally required to do 3 'months' away (the away rotations are 3-4 weeks long).

Also, because we have a 1.5 year preclerkship curriculum, you get a SUPER long fourth year. As in, I've been in fourth year for a month now. We get a ridiculous amount of time off during fourth year as well, scheduled when we want (1 week for Thanksgiving, 3 for winter break, and 12 weeks scattered throughout the year, and we have to finish rotations by the end of April). So, there's definitely time to do all that research and international work. I will have all my letters of recommendation for residency before a lot of schools even finish with core clerkships. And I'll have Step 2 out of the way.

In terms of living, how do the costs of living compare? What about life outside of school? [...] Is Charlottesville that close to other cities of interest?

Chapel Hill probably wins out in being close to an urban center, as Charlottesville is an hour away from Richmond, and three hours from DC. But, we do have a lot of wineries (22 within a 20 mile radius, I believe), a few microbreweries, and a LOT of restaurants. Of course, there is also a direct train to DC if you want to get away for the weekend, and we kinda are in the mountains (I'm from Colorado, so I don't consider these the mountains, but whatever). Lots of hiking trails are nearby, if that's your thing. And the Outer Banks and Virginia Beach aren't that far away.

The other big difference I noticed was that UVA felt more like a private school, there are more OOS students (50% or something), less focus (is there any?) on primary care, and the facilities are beautiful. [...] Not sure how these schools do in the match, although I remember hearing that UVA's step1 average was ~235, so along with the difference in the schools' missions, I wouldn't be surprised if UVA students tended towards more prestigious residencies.

We actually have an amazing family medicine department. And amazing Gen Peds faculty. And amazing IM faculty. A lot of people end up doing primary care (my class seems particularly interested in family medicine), but if you're not interested in it, we have just as many (if not more) go into surgical subspecialties and anesthesia. Our match list is pretty awesome, sending students to some of the most prestigious residencies in their fields (Mass Gen was popular last year).

 

[Trinityaas12]

Hey guys. I'm facing the same delimma. I'm in state for NC so it would make so much sense for me to go to UNC but the problem is I don't know much about the school. I saw basically nothing that stuck with me on the interview day. UVA was a whole different story: I loved it there.

 

[CoffeePrincess]

Hey guys. I'm facing the same delimma. I'm in state for NC so it would make so much sense for me to go to UNC but the problem is I don't know much about the school. I saw basically nothing that stuck with me on the interview day. UVA was a whole different story: I loved it there.

I would say a good place to start is with the curriculum structure, do you think you would be more comfortable with small group-heavy learning vs more lecture-based learning. There was a lot of additional information on this thread that is helping me to think through my decision. What do you think about all the aspects mentioned above?