UT Southwestern

[Neuro2008]

Anyone else seriously thinking about this program?

Its for sure at the top of my list but would like to hear if anyone has any info on it. I know that UTSW is very strong in academics and I know that its also the home of the editor of "Archives of Neurology" and I've had several of my faculty and residents say it was a program on the rise and to have a serious look at (especially since they now have a night float!!, work hours were a problem before).

Thanks..

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[Faebinder]

NICE! An actual editor in the program is to me like the ultimate prestige for that program. Right above being the program who graduated the editor and under a Noble prize winner in the program.

 

[Neuro2008]

NICE! An actual editor in the program is to me like the ultimate prestige for that program. Right above being the program who graduated the editor and under a Noble prize winner in the program.

I'm assuming your being a ass so I'll waste more of my time and respond in your own language.

Not an editor but "the editor" and the home for the journal. Like "The green" journal has a home at Univ of Rochester and Annals is at Hopkins!! Maybe you should look at some neurology journals occassionally if your going to be a neurologist. Oh wait, you posted about the top journals a while ago, so did you ever look at them??

 

[Faebinder]

what the heck, I'll waste a couple of minutes too.

I think you misunderstood me and actually I did send them an application because of the very same reasons you stated, they are strong academically.

Reason I was asking about hte journals in the past, is because I had a choice of submitting a manuscript to Epilepsia vs Neurology. Went with Epilepsia in the end.. it was just more appropriate for the topic.

 

[Neuro2008]

what the heck, I'll waste a couple of minutes too.

I think you misunderstood me and actually I did send them an application because of the very same reasons you stated, they are strong academically.

Reason I was asking about hte journals in the past, is because I had a choice of submitting a manuscript to Epilepsia vs Neurology. Went with Epilepsia in the end.. it was just more appropriate for the topic.

Sorry man!! I miss read your comment.

 

[Neuro2008]

what the heck, I'll waste a couple of minutes too.

I think you misunderstood me and actually I did send them an application because of the very same reasons you stated, they are strong academically.

Reason I was asking about hte journals in the past, is because I had a choice of submitting a manuscript to Epilepsia vs Neurology. Went with Epilepsia in the end.. it was just more appropriate for the topic.

One of things that impressed me the most about UTSW is Dallas. According to pop data on Dallas-Fort worth the metro pop of this area is 6 million (and growing fast) and ranked 4th behind New york, LA and Chi-town. So living in such a megatropolis you have all the high end fashion/resturants/culture but with the plus of having warm weather year round.. Also Dallas has a really decent cost of living. So with the huge population draw the neuro cases you see at UTSW are many!! Damn I do sound like the PD!! This will be my last plug, tonight! Ha..

 

[llogg]

One of things that impressed me the most about UTSW is Dallas. According to pop data on Dallas-Fort worth the metro pop of this area is 6 million (and growing fast) and ranked 4th behind New york, LA and Chi-town. So living in such a megatropolis you have all the high end fashion/resturants/culture but with the plus of having warm weather year round.. Also Dallas has a really decent cost of living. So with the huge population draw the neuro cases you see at UTSW are many!! Damn I do sound like the PD!! This will be my last plug, tonight! Ha..

If you're plugging the metroplex you've got to be a plant from the program. UTSW is about the only nice thing I can say about Dallas. Fort Worth is a little bit nicer, but you won't have any clinical experiences there and it is about a 45 minute drive away from Dallas.

 

[Neuro2008]

If you're plugging the metroplex you've got to be a plant from the program. UTSW is about the only nice thing I can say about Dallas. Fort Worth is a little bit nicer, but you won't have any clinical experiences there and it is about a 45 minute drive away from Dallas.

Dude I'm not a plant. I just visted the place as a kid and really enjoyed it then and still do. One of my favorite places was Highland park I think because I had great times with my grandparents there. I agree its no Boston, which is my fav city March through October but we each have to find our own place. However, I will argue about its status, its considered a global city albeit gamma: check out the meca of info, Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city

 

[Faebinder]

If you're plugging the metroplex you've got to be a plant from the program. UTSW is about the only nice thing I can say about Dallas. Fort Worth is a little bit nicer, but you won't have any clinical experiences there and it is about a 45 minute drive away from Dallas.

I was just thinking, do plants really exist anymore? I get the feeling most programs have over 3 times the applicants they care to see.

Here are FREIDA's statistics on Neurology.

http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/spcstsc/0,1238,180,00.html

Average number of PY1 interviews 38.7

Assuming a program has 5 residents, that's like 7 times the amount of positions.

 

[llogg]

I'll just go on record as saying I was joking about the "plant" comment.

If you can afford to live in Highland Park you will enjoy Dallas.

 

[Neuro2008]

I'll just go on record as saying I was joking about the "plant" comment.

If you can afford to live in Highland Park you will enjoy Dallas.

Cant afford it but still enjoyed it.

 

[GopherBrain]

I'm assuming your being a ass so I'll waste more of my time and respond in your own language.

Not an editor but "the editor" and the home for the journal. Like "The green" journal has a home at Univ of Rochester and Annals is at Hopkins!! Maybe you should look at some neurology journals occassionally if your going to be a neurologist. Oh wait, you posted about the top journals a while ago, so did you ever look at them??

The Annals is based out of where?

 

[croire]

So I actually grew up (and currently do med school) in Dallas...been here WAY too long, hence the east-coast list of applications In any case, I can vouch for it in some regards - for many of the reasons you mentioned. Although I will say, the weather would never be quoted as a reason to move here...its either hotter than hell OR cold, and you had no idea the seasons just changed.

Dallas is actually quite fashionable (interior design is big, and although its no new york, there are several buildings in both Dallas and fort worth designed by internationally acclaimed architects), decent night-life, great museums (nasher anyone?), symphony, opera, and yeah cheap I'd say it's a good city to train in, really.

About the neuro program...I'm going to say that it will likely be getting a much better rap in next 5-10 years than it has in the previous...but that is does have some way to go and many good residents to recruit in order to do so. The faculty IS stellar, but there is a lack of resprect for the neuro residents among the internists who run the hospital. Parkland does get great cases though - I saw a dude with neurosarcoid my first week on IM service third year. Plus some great malingering and factitious patients to wade through if you like that sort of stuff!

 

[llogg]

So I actually grew up (and currently do med school) in Dallas...been here WAY too long, hence the east-coast list of applications In any case, I can vouch for it in some regards - for many of the reasons you mentioned. Although I will say, the weather would never be quoted as a reason to move here...its either hotter than hell OR cold, and you had no idea the seasons just changed.

Dallas is actually quite fashionable (interior design is big, and although its no new york, there are several buildings in both Dallas and fort worth designed by internationally acclaimed architects), decent night-life, great museums (nasher anyone?), symphony, opera, and yeah cheap I'd say it's a good city to train in, really.

About the neuro program...I'm going to say that it will likely be getting a much better rap in next 5-10 years than it has in the previous...but that is does have some way to go and many good residents to recruit in order to do so. The faculty IS stellar, but there is a lack of resprect for the neuro residents among the internists who run the hospital. Parkland does get great cases though - I saw a dude with neurosarcoid my first week on IM service third year. Plus some great malingering and factitious patients to wade through if you like that sort of stuff!

The anonymity of the internet is no match for my deductive powers! Curious what "croire" is referencing though. You obviously know more about the city than I, but, while there are pockets of cheap coolness, I have found it to be mostly overwrought and overpriced. Rent can be cheap for sure, but not in Highland Park. Also, the crime rate sucks. I live two blocks west of highland park and car breakins are common in our gated parking lot.

 

[Neuro2008]

The Annals is based out of where?

From that planet that is no longer!! Or is it UCSF?? Dont think I dont know where you are GB!! Ha!!


Seriously thanks for being such a good moderator.

 

[Neuro2008]

From that planet that is no longer!! Or is it UCSF?? Dont think I dont know where you are GB!! Ha!!


Seriously thanks for being such a good moderator.

Damn I screwed up that joke!! I forgot it was Pluto that was in question! For some reason I was thinking of that seventh planet from the sun......damn!! So let me rephrase my answer:

From that seventh planet!! Or is it UCSF??

 

[GopherBrain]

From that seventh planet!! Or is it UCSF??

Am I that obvious?

 

[Neuro2008]

The anonymity of the internet is no match for my deductive powers! Curious what "croire" is referencing though. You obviously know more about the city than I, but, while there are pockets of cheap coolness, I have found it to be mostly overwrought and overpriced. Rent can be cheap for sure, but not in Highland Park. Also, the crime rate sucks. I live two blocks west of highland park and car breakins are common in our gated parking lot.

Not to keep fencing about Dallas but its all perspective. Croire if you think Dallas winter is "cold" your in for some serious hurting when you go north. Boston winter is "cold" and Dallas winter is WARM by comparison.

Yeah llogg Dallas can be expensive in /around highland park but come on its one of the riches places in Dallas. Also compare it to Boston/NYC/or GopherBrain town and its dirt cheap.

 

[Neuro2008]

Am I that obvious?

Yeah but that's ok. To most of us on this site your a neuro god and lets be frank most people would give their left nut to be at UCSF; I'm not in the latter category because of a very bad accident I dont like to talk about!!

Just joking of course, UCSF totally rocks!

 

[Faebinder]

LEFT NUT? that's weak man.... I'll raise you a kidney.

 

[Neuro2008]

I got my UTSW interview!!!!!! I'm happy as ****!! Now I dont have to give my remaining nut for a UCSF spot!

Dallas TX here I come baby!!

 

[JShupe]

I find it really interesting that people are so excited about getting UTSW interviews! I am a PGY1 and I'm not sure why I feel so compelled to post this but I feel like you're getting hoodwinked! They have very few american grads, the residents are miserable, far from respected and most of them would flat out tell you, as they did me, they would never have picked the program again if given a second chance. The faculty is AMAZING, and I loved working with them as a student, but that's the only solid thing I can say. I wanted desperately to like the program. In fact, if I could have even tolerated the program I would have stayed there becuase it would have been so much easier not to have moved my family, but my time on the neuro service was dreadful. Not only are the residents obviously unhappy, they don't get along at all and are truly not respected by any of the other services. Obviously this is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth.

 

[llogg]

I agree with you Shupe, but I suppose the only way change will occur is if more residents of 2008's background and enthusiasm come to UTSW. I do feel compelled to say, however, that I would never part with my left nut or any other part of my anatomy or really anything at all to go to UCSF.

 

[Neuro2008]

I find it really interesting that people are so excited about getting UTSW interviews! I am a PGY1 and I'm not sure why I feel so compelled to post this but I feel like you're getting hoodwinked! They have very few american grads, the residents are miserable, far from respected and most of them would flat out tell you, as they did me, they would never have picked the program again if given a second chance. The faculty is AMAZING, and I loved working with them as a student, but that's the only solid thing I can say. I wanted desperately to like the program. In fact, if I could have even tolerated the program I would have stayed there becuase it would have been so much easier not to have moved my family, but my time on the neuro service was dreadful. Not only are the residents obviously unhappy, they don't get along at all and are truly not respected by any of the other services. Obviously this is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth.

From what I've heard (which must be taken with a grain of salt because I'm not a UTSW med student, so I havent spoken to any Southwestern residents directly but only indirectly) the problem with the misery stems from the call/work hours. Like I've said before they are changing to a night float starting July 2007 so hopefully that will be resolved. I've also heard that they are increasing the number of residents (they take 7/yr now which isnt small) they will take.

The whole problem about FMG's I think might change now that the work hour problem will be tempered (at least I'm hoping that occurs and that is what some of the faculty at my med school have told me, two of which are utsw res grads) but let's be honest here, there are very few programs that dont have any FMG's because neurology just isnt that appealing to most US grads. Yeah, MGH, UCSF and maybe Cloumbia dont have any but I know for a fact that Mayo, Cleveland clinic and many other top teir programs have a decent number of FMG's in their programs.

The whole problem with respect within the institution is directly linked to the number of FMG's. This latter point is a real pitty because, there are a ton of very bright, gifted, good doctors that are also FMG's.

BUT JShupe I dont want to be a Nazi on this issue, so please tell us why the residents were so unhappy at UTSW?? Give me a different perspective and ammo so I can fire some questions at the PD!!

llogg glad to hear your saving yourself for that "special" place!!

 

[llogg]

They don't take 7 residents per year. They take 5 officially and usually end up with 6 in a class. They are not looking to increase the number of residents at least for the next two years.

 

[Neuro2008]

They don't take 7 residents per year. They take 5 officially and usually end up with 6 in a class. They are not looking to increase the number of residents at least for the next two years.

I think you could be a plant now. Let's examine this in detail. Click on the link below and count along with me llogg!!

http://www8.utsouthwestern.edu/utsw/cda/dept21330/files/81027.html


I count 7 per year. What about you? "usually end up with 6 in a class". What world do you live in?? I count 7 per class!! What gives with you?? Where in the world do you get your info??

 

[llogg]

I was at a dinner last night with Drs. O, Cannon, and Vernino. Dr. O stated they take 5 officially but often end up with 6, they currently have 23 residents in 20 spots. If he misspoke then I passed along incorrect info. But I suspect he knows what he's talking about.

 

[Faebinder]

my math is not what it used to be...


but... hmm 6 x 3 = 18...

even if you count pgy1 ... 6 x 4 = 24.

on the website i count 7 x 3 = 21.

you say 23...

Sounds like he just approximated for you.... whatever, this all doesn't matter anyway and it's a moot argument because if the PD wants to take 1 more person per year, no one will stop him/her.. it's just that the department will only get funds for a certain number of residents per year and in neurology there is a lot of leeway with that because i am sure occasionally you end up with residents who transfered or pregnant or whatever and so no one to occupy the PGY 2 or PGY 3 spot for that year and so they use the funds from that to get an extra resident... something along that line.

 

[llogg]

He did not say 6 with each class, he said "often" they take 6, thus the 23. The five offical are through the match. Then occasionally someone from, say, neuropath (one of the examples he used at dinner) decides they'd really rather do neuro and they transfer into the program outside of the match. I do not think this is that uncommon or unique to Southwestern.

 

[croire]

Yeah, so interesting conversation...looks a lot like what we talked about with the chair and PD last pm like llogg mentioned. btw I'm from UTSW as well.

So with regard to the unhappy residents business...work hours and respect, that's what it boils down to. But I will say this - while they are stretched for time (as many programs likely are) and while they are front loaded quite a bit (as lots of programs are) you probably hear about more because of the respect issue. So one problem is leading to the exageration of other problems, really.

The respect issue is coming from the fact that most of the resies are coming in as PGY-2's into this internal medicine dominated hospital and rendering consult opinions (which the internists often don't want to get or don't care to follow) without any knowledge of the culture of Parkland. After the first few months of this, the PGY-2 will say "Screw this! I don't like this place's disrespect of my profession" while the internist is saying "what the heck is wrong with this resident? neuro must suck". And thus begins the beautiful cycle of disrespect.

Next year, slots will be offered that are categorical. So when some of the new neuro resies come in and go through the prgram at Parkland, they'll know the IM resies and get along much better. It will be a much better climate for neurology.

I don't think anyone would doubt that FMGs are just as qualified (and sometimes more qualified) than any USMG. But with that said, yes it reflects on the marketability of the UTSW program only. I don't think anyone would argue with the quality of faculty and the incredibly good training opp. that comes with a community hospital program, either. So while the residents report being unhappy (and i couldn't disagree with you, unfortunately) I think the next crop of residents will be much happier.

btw, despite being from UTSW, I'm not going to be a resident there, so I'm not a complete plant

 

[llogg]

From an email I just received from Dr. O. (Croire received the same email.)
"1) The current PGY1 class (the 5 accepted through match and currently PGY1 in PMH) has 4 IMGs and 1 guy from LSU-Shreveport. There is a 6th guy signed up postmatch, who was in UTSW pathology and found he preferred the pt-care so is doing his internship at his old medical in Tennessee and then coming back to us in July.

2) I currently have 21 adult neuro residents incl the 5 in PGY1 in our program plus a guy finishing off cycle in October. (there are also 4 child neuro residents). The scheduling master used for planning recruitment and staffing for the next couple of years plans for 21 next year and 23 the following one. If we can consistently attract the 6 best applicants through match, then I'll seek to make the PGY1 class 6 (rather than keeping eye out for best subsequent pickup). Moving from class of 6 per year to 7 per year is not in plans, and will not happen during the time span you'd be here..."

 

[Neuro2008]

Yeah, so interesting conversation...looks a lot like what we talked about with the chair and PD last pm like llogg mentioned. btw I'm from UTSW as well.

So with regard to the unhappy residents business...work hours and respect, that's what it boils down to. But I will say this - while they are stretched for time (as many programs likely are) and while they are front loaded quite a bit (as lots of programs are) you probably hear about more because of the respect issue. So one problem is leading to the exageration of other problems, really.

The respect issue is coming from the fact that most of the resies are coming in as PGY-2's into this internal medicine dominated hospital and rendering consult opinions (which the internists often don't want to get or don't care to follow) without any knowledge of the culture of Parkland. After the first few months of this, the PGY-2 will say "Screw this! I don't like this place's disrespect of my profession" while the internist is saying "what the heck is wrong with this resident? neuro must suck". And thus begins the beautiful cycle of disrespect.

Next year, slots will be offered that are categorical. So when some of the new neuro resies come in and go through the prgram at Parkland, they'll know the IM resies and get along much better. It will be a much better climate for neurology.

I don't think anyone would doubt that FMGs are just as qualified (and sometimes more qualified) than any USMG. But with that said, yes it reflects on the marketability of the UTSW program only. I don't think anyone would argue with the quality of faculty and the incredibly good training opp. that comes with a community hospital program, either. So while the residents report being unhappy (and i couldn't disagree with you, unfortunately) I think the next crop of residents will be much happier.

btw, despite being from UTSW, I'm not going to be a resident there, so I'm not a complete plant

Thanks Croire for the insight. Yeah there is always this political atmoshpere that occurs in different hospitals and institutions. I really appreciate your point of view. Have a good weekend neuro crowd.

 

[Neuro2008]

I was at a dinner last night with Drs. O, Cannon, and Vernino. Dr. O stated they take 5 officially but often end up with 6, they currently have 23 residents in 20 spots. If he misspoke then I passed along incorrect info. But I suspect he knows what he's talking about.

How was the dinner? Did they tell you anything else about UTSW neurology, like what is planned for the future? One of my friends said that they are planning more "building" growth in the next several years (the medical school complex that is) and so I'm curious if you they gave you any insight on this.

Thanks for helping pin down the number of slots. I was fooled by their website and since they have nothing on their FREIDA webpage as to the number of slots, I assumed wrong. Have a good weekend llogg.

 

[Neuro2008]

My residency program and my rank now (but interviews might change this):

UT Southwestern (Dah!)
MGH
JHU
UCSF
Stanford
Cloumbia
Mayo (Rochester)
Cornell
Michigan
UCSD
UVA
Duke
Emory
UNC
Wake
UPenn

 

[Neuro2008]

My residency program and my rank now (but interviews might change this):

UT Southwestern (Dah!)
MGH
JHU
UCSF
Stanford
Cloumbia
Mayo (Rochester)
Cornell
Michigan
UCSD
UVA
Duke
Emory
UNC
Wake
UPenn

I got interviews at :
UNC and UVA

Still havent heard anything from the big boys!!

 

[Neuro2008]

Damn in my excitment I posted in the wrong thread!!

Sorry!!

 

[AlternateSome1]

I think you could be a plant now. Let's examine this in detail. Click on the link below and count along with me llogg!!

http://www8.utsouthwestern.edu/utsw/cda/dept21330/files/81027.html


I count 7 per year. What about you? "usually end up with 6 in a class". What world do you live in?? I count 7 per class!! What gives with you?? Where in the world do you get your info??

If you look at the website, at least one person of each class is a ped. neurologist.

 

[Neuro2008]

Yeah I think your right. That solves the mystery...7 total with one being a Ped Neuro....Yeah I had a friend that said that many of the numbers on Frieda count the Peds as well. He specifically said that Mayo claims to have 9/10 spots but usually 2 spots are Ped Neuro spots....I guess we can ask this question ourselves when we go...just seems like they could be more specific on Frieda...

 

[MacGyver]

UTSW has 90% IMGs? WTF is that? I thought they were a powerhouse program.

What are the neuro programs with > 95% american grads? Are hopkins/MGH/UCSF the only ones? Surely the AMG applicant pool is deeper than that

 

[Faebinder]

UTSW has 90% IMGs? WTF is that? I thought they were a powerhouse program.

What are the neuro programs with > 95% american grads? Are hopkins/MGH/UCSF the only ones? Surely the AMG applicant pool is deeper than that

Apparently you have not been taking a good look at the interview thread.... note how AMGs already have 5+ number of interviews... do you really think that someone with interviews into Mayo, UCSF, John Hopkins, University of Rochester, Yale, Duke, Cornell and Emory are actually really going to rank UTSW as their number 1? I don't know many people that go to more than 6 interviews.... So when you are getting 10... you start to not care about the lowest 4. Keep in mind that where you graduate from in residency affects your future income and career. The graduate from John Hopkins or Yale etc is not viewed equal to the graduate from UTSW... it's a sucky fact but true.

Please note I am in no way saying UTSW sucks.. I am stating a fact....

 

[llogg]

Faebinder, Just to be clear, you are stating speculation and opinion as regards UTSW, not fact.

MacGyver, UTSW is far from a powerhouse program, but it's better than the impression given by the percentage of IMGs there. They have tended to take IMGs with better scores over US grads with lower scores, in part because the program director is himself an FMG (from Ireland who subsequently trained at Mayo) and is thus less inclined to discriminate in that regard. That policy may be changing a bit as they strive to change the perception of the program.

 

[MacGyver]

Faebinder, Just to be clear, you are stating speculation and opinion as regards UTSW, not fact.

MacGyver, UTSW is far from a powerhouse program, but it's better than the impression given by the percentage of IMGs there. They have tended to take IMGs with better scores over US grads with lower scores, in part because the program director is himself an FMG (from Ireland who subsequently trained at Mayo) and is thus less inclined to discriminate in that regard. That policy may be changing a bit as they strive to change the perception of the program.

I have a hard time believing that UTSW is taking FMGs SOLELY because they are better applicants than the AMGs. Yes, I expect there to be a couple of FMGs at every program including Hopkins who are genuine superstars and would school any AMG.

However, when a program has 75% IMGs, what that tells me is that AMG interest is very weak. The FMG applicant pool is NOT STRONG ENOUGH to beat out AMGs at that rate.

 

[Neuro2008]

Let me restate again the same **** I've been saying. First off UTSW is a top 20 medical school but its not a top 10 or for that matter a top 4!! And as such its residency program's usually are not in the top 10 or 4, neurology in this regard is the same, but over the last 6 to 10 years has slipped even further because of a chairman change (at least that's what I hear, but maybe llogg can give more insight). Many of the facult at my med school (a top 10 med school) tell me that 10 years ago UTSW was for sure a top 20 neuro program. What happened is that they have gone through a spell where they did not care about the work hours for their residents and so it developed a rep that the work hours "sucked". You may not know this but "life style" is in now and the q3 days are dying to the night float.

Cleveland Clinic is a good example of a FMG friendly place that also is a top 10 or 5 neuro program. Their chairman is an FMG (Germany I think but not for sure on this) and they have a butt load of FMG's, and its a very solid program. Its not on my list because its in Cleveland which I think is a cool city but its too cold for me and I've decided that if I'm going to live in the cold again I may only want to live in Boston or Rochester.

Dont be mislead by the ranking game!! You have to find the place that makes you happy and where you can get good training in neurology. For me UTSW is such a place, but maybe not for you. Also if you want to be a star at Harvard, then by all means shoot for MGH/UCSF/hopkins and you will help your chances but beware as a harvard grade, harvard likes what they call "complete pedigrees". That is, if you go to a unknown undergrad school, or a state medical school or low ranking med school and you think by doing your residency at MGH you'll instantly have the keys to harvard think again. I know a very talented, amazing neurologist at MGH who will never be a full professor because he went to Case Western for med school (so he said to me, and he went to an Ivy league undergrad).

Lastly, Southwestern to me is an amazing place. I love the weather/city and I think the school has the right mix of research talent (they boast that they have more Nobel Laureates than any other med school, is that true llogg?) and clinic overload. So yeah I'm a Ivy grad and I'm considering it but again, it all boils down to the interview. Lastly, UAB is another great place to think about neurology. I think they only have 4 FMGs in their program and their program has taken off with their new chairman. I would apply there but again I like a bigger city. I really expect that in the next 5 years you'll see the FMG's at UTSW drop but only time will tell.

 

[llogg]

I don't have any insight on the chairman change, but I will say that my limited interaction with Dr. Cannon has impressed me as much or more than his pedigree (Undergrad and Masters from WashU, MD/PhD from Hopkins, residency and fellowship at MGH). He's a brilliant, personable guy. The same could be said for many of the faculty here, in particular Drs. Frohman, Wolfe, O'Suilleabhain and Vernino have stood out to me.

As for the Laureates, it is true that they boast that. I have never verified the claim, but there are four Nobel prize winners on faculty here. Three of the four lecture to medical students in the first and second year courses.

Mac, not sure why you took that tone in your response. It's clear you don't know a whole lot about residency programs since you thought UTSW was a "powerhouse" program, so I'm going to bet that you don't have the first clue as to how strong the FMG applicant pool is. I don't claim to know either, but I do know that I was simply passing on the explanation given by the program director himself. You can trust that or not, but don't claim something you can't possibly know.

 

[Neuro2008]

I wasnt trying to say anything about UT Southwestern's chairman. From what I heard (which you can take with a grain of salt) the previous chair was a dominate figure and that after taking the helm its taking a while for him to establish his own department... I've also heard he's a great guy and a superb neurologist...It's sat night I've got to get off this damn computer...

 

[erkin777]

I am an American Medical Graduate. I applied for Neurology last year and interviewed at UTSW. I liked the program. I was impressed by the Chairman and the Program Director. However, the number of FMG's in the program was just too many for my taste. It's not a racial thing. But in their Neurology Residency, Americans are a small minority. That is a big negative to me. 13 to 15 candidates interviewed the same time I did. Only 4 of us were American Medical Grad's. I interviewed at 9 other programs. I saw only 1 FMG candidate at those interviews. I ended up ranking UTSW low because of that. So there must be something that keeps American Medical Grad's from choosing UTSW.

All of that aside, I still recommend AMG's interview there. There are many positives to the program that may overcome the FMG thing to you. I liked the 2 day interview schedule last year. They also paid for 2 days of hotel which was very nice and appreciated. The faculty and staff were very nice and professional.

 

[TruTrooper]

Interviewed there last year as well. Very nice and friendly staff. The amount of work hours probably concerned many interviewees but what I did like about the program director was that he was very upfront about!

A few places I visited, I was very informed about their program turn-offs or weakness yet it seem as if they tried to cover them up which was a huge turn-off to the program for me.

Lets, face it...residency means you will be working your butt off no matter where you go. I think it is all relative. I was told that the prelim year where I will be doing my residency would be harsh and they work they hell out of you. Now I am 4 months into and I am wondering where is all of the whip-cracking that I heard about?


Well, I am person who has worked full-time since the age of 18 and has held a job since 15...including working full-time through pre-med years and some in med school so a 80 hour work with that is very busy doesn't hurt me as much as someone who does not have much work experience and all of a sudden is thrown into a career that requires 80 hours of very busy work out of them.

Bottomline: You will work a lot in residency no matter where you go. Just grow a pair and pay your dues through some hard work. I can assure you it will be a lot easier than doing 60 hours of construction work a week.

 

[Neuro2008]

Yeah I've heard Dr. O is pretty cool. He's Irish so being up front comes with his genes.

Yeah I've heard too that the UT Southwestern prelim year is tough but you learn a ton. I guess like all integrated programs you can opt to not do the prelim at UTSW but that's a question I want to ask during interviews.

Dong get me wrong TruTrooper, I dont mind working hard and 80 hrs is no problem. And for that matter I can work 120hrs/week but my problem with the 120 work week is that my ability to learn drops off after 80 hrs and I think this was a big concern for many and thus the new rules (along with other reasons). Moreover, they say how you work in residency reflects how you work in the "real" world and I personally want a personal life in addition to my work. I dont know about you buy my life is too short as it is.

 

[Methyldopa]

harvard likes what they call "complete pedigrees". That is, if you go to a unknown undergrad school, or a state medical school or low ranking med school and you think by doing your residency at MGH you'll instantly have the keys to harvard think again. I know a very talented, amazing neurologist at MGH who will never be a full professor because he went to Case Western for med school (so he said to me, and he went to an Ivy league undergrad).

That's a silly statement. Harvard and other top programs (UCSF, Columbia, etc) often get the bad rap that the programs are very elitists, which is not the case at all. In Neurology I never found a single program that had an elitist attitude (I encountered only one resident in all my interviews that had such an attitude but never a PD or chair).

Also if you actually look closely one the chairs of Partners went to Univer of Cinncinaty for med school (and although that's a good school, it isn't "pedigree" and by the way it is a state school).

In life it's up to your own efforts to succeed. But it depends what you want in your career. And Harvard isn't the only place to practice academic medicine!

 

[Neuro2008]

Check out Cleveland clinic's residents...Only one (out of 7) 2006 was AMG!! And CC is ranked in the top 10 programs.

http://cms.clevelandclinic.org/neuroscience/body.cfm?id=295