USN got Initial Accredition

[Guy Smiley]

For anyone who has been here, how many cases are they claiming each resident gets to start? I am just curious because Henderson, NV doesn't seem so large that it would need a bunch of new orthodontists (residents). I was also wondering where they are going to get their surgical exposure? Without a hosptial associated with the program, it seems like all that's left is private practice, but seems most surgical cases in pp never get surgery, but camo. Any comment from someone who's visited the site?

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[S Files]

This is so funny!!!! It seems that SFiles is obsesssed with bad-mouthing this university and its director!!! Dude, what's your beef? Your personal attacks are becoming so transparent that anyone with half a brain can see right through them. I don't care either way, but do you have any proof of "board of regents, coda and nevada dental association" all agreeing with your point of view? If so, please share with us instead of this defamation of character you've made your mission in life. And if coda thought this director was so horrible, why would it acaredit another program that's run by him?
And I looked at the other thread you referred to. It's basically someone asking about the program, and again, shocking.... SFiles bashing it. Get a life dude....

Does anyone know how this program did on their site visit? Did they get a bunch of recommendations on things that weren't kosher and had to be fixed? Can someone share? the proof is in the pudding!!

Like other poeple have said, it's ridiculous to go by what others are saying. Go visit the program for yourself and make up your own mind, good or bad.

'nuff said.

and Sfiles, for the love of god, let it go and get some therapy man!

you didn't match the last 2 yrs correct? you're thinking of applying to this USN program and are taking things personally. "you don't care either way".....right..... it's ok, no worries.

a quick 5 min search yielded the following:
board of regents minutes used to be available on the internet, but have been removed. i'm sure if someone really wants to they can contact UNLV board of regents to get the statements.

nevada dental association:
But Dr. George Rosenbaum, president of the Nevada Dental Association, questioned the need for another orthodontics program in the state.
"We think it is not a good program to start," he said

http://www.nvmedicaljobs.com/news/article_detail.php?id=2156

CODA search was taking forever. i know their reports are out there but
quite frankly i don't have time to get references...i'm already in an ortho program. hey i'll agree with you about one thing if i were applying to this program DIG DEEP and do your research.

I'll tell you exactly what my stake here is. I used to be president of ASDA at my school and after finishing ortho and paying off debt i plan to be active in organized dentistry. i've put in work standing up for dental students because quite frankly we get taken advantage of more than other professional schools. things i have and will continue to "bash":

-Indentured servitude (OEC)
-Outrageous tuition
-False promises to applicants desperate to get into a specialty program
-People who lower the standards of our profession
-The dental professions role in creating this access to care dilemna....this is off topic but how to face it INCENTIVES and loan forgiveness....not opening new schools charging 60K/yr.

 

[S Files]

For anyone who has been here, how many cases are they claiming each resident gets to start? I am just curious because Henderson, NV doesn't seem so large that it would need a bunch of new orthodontists (residents). I was also wondering where they are going to get their surgical exposure? Without a hosptial associated with the program, it seems like all that's left is private practice, but seems most surgical cases in pp never get surgery, but camo. Any comment from someone who's visited the site?

dude...hello....remember it's a PIONEER program...don't worry about all that stuff...get an MBA !!!

 

[SFortho]

Wow.... Still no therapy Sfiles? Too much time on your hands 'cause not enough patients?

Yeah... you're right.... no worries!!!!

Peace out dude. You've got problems!!

 

[gryffindor]

Wow.... Still no therapy Sfiles? Too much time on your hands 'cause not enough patients?

Yeah... you're right.... no worries!!!!

Peace out dude. You've got problems!!

Why does Sfiles need therapy? Because he's got an opinion you don't like? You should be glad people like him are motivated to protect the profession because there are a lot of people out there ready to sell us out in dentistry and ortho. Look at the mess medicine has created for itself by selling out and now you have predents competing hard to get into dentistry instead because medicine is turning into a financial black hole.

Let me get this right, this program has 9 residents in each class, so there will be 27 residents when all the 3 classes are there full time in a few years? Assuming they carry about 50 patients per resident, that is 450 patients that need to walk into the doors at USN each year. Is that what the patient load is? Those are some pretty steep numbers. Not trying to start a fight, just want to know. I've heard of lower case loads and higher ones at various ortho programs. I really believe that for ortho, the more patients you can treatment plan and then execute those plans on, the better off you will be. I've found ortho to be a lot more challenging than "If you've seen one impacted canine, you've seen them all."

 

[DIRTIE]

That is not counting the multiple interns/fellows that they also are going to take.

Why does Sfiles need therapy? Because he's got an opinion you don't like? You should be glad people like him are motivated to protect the profession because there are a lot of people out there ready to sell us out in dentistry and ortho. Look at the mess medicine has created for itself by selling out and now you have predents competing hard to get into dentistry instead because medicine is turning into a financial black hole.

Let me get this right, this program has 9 residents in each class, so there will be 27 residents when all the 3 classes are there full time in a few years? Assuming they carry about 50 patients per resident, that is 450 patients that need to walk into the doors at USN each year. Is that what the patient load is? Those are some pretty steep numbers. Not trying to start a fight, just want to know. I've heard of lower case loads and higher ones at various ortho programs. I really believe that for ortho, the more patients you can treatment plan and then execute those plans on, the better off you will be. I've found ortho to be a lot more challenging than "If you've seen one impacted canine, you've seen them all."

 

[SFortho]

Why does Sfiles need therapy? Because he's got an opinion you don't like? You should be glad people like him are motivated to protect the profession because there are a lot of people out there ready to sell us out in dentistry and ortho. Look at the mess medicine has created for itself by selling out and now you have predents competing hard to get into dentistry instead because medicine is turning into a financial black hole.


I said that because Sfiles seems to be on a mission of personal attacks and defamation. NO, im no longer interested in reapplying for ortho and doing just fine in gp. But I don't think it's fair or right to drag people's names through the mud when not all the facts are perhaps known. It seems like sfiles has a PERSONAL agenda and not a professional one. That's why I said go visit the program and judge for yourselves. The problem with these blogs is that anyone can say anything (and boy... haven't we all seen that before on SDN on multiple occasions when a program or a person is getting bashed over bad blood or whathaveyous?) and then it becomes gospel to a bunch of folks, and then the whole thing takes a life of its own. many people are very naive and uninformed and will have a tendency to believe what they read as facts. I'm just saying don't bash people and attack them personally unless you have first hand accounts and facts to back it up. Go visit the program and decide if you like it or not. Sfiles, I just think jumping on the bandwagon and putting down a program and attacking everyone envolved with it ("made tragic erros, tood advantage of students ad were unprofesional") is not right. Those are some very harsh words and unless you know the facts you should not be attacking people like that. You may have personal reasons for disliking the program, its director or whatever, but personal attacks like that on a site like this is uncalled for.

I like the questions others are asking, and perhpas the program is too new to answer them. hopefully soon we will all find out what is really going on from their existing residents or others visiting there.

Honestly guys, no disrespect meant at all. I know we all tend to get a bit passionate and out of control on this site, so maybe we should ALL take a chill pill!!

 

[FemmeDentale]

Honestly guys, no disrespect meant at all. I know we all tend to get a bit passionate and out of control on this site, so maybe we should ALL take a chill pill!!

Amen to that!

 

[DENTISTHONEY]

http://www.govcupnevada.com/




http://www.usn.edu/spotlight/detail...ald-w-reynolds-governorrsquos-cup-competition

 

[gryffindor]

WTF?

How do a bunch of ortho residents have so much time to devote to planning a new dental school and ways to make cone beam technology profitable? If they have so much time on their hands, do some research so we can finally put to rest all this opiniondontics going on in the field. Oh I forgot, research isn't as sexy as an MBA since MBAs make front page news these days.

 

[Cold Front]

Great point. I also think there is getting to be a big over supply of orthodontists, especially with so many more Pedo grad programs coming up. Pedos are getting more and more into ortho as well as the GD's. Try to find a job right now in anywhere remotely desirable - good luck. The money that was in ortho 5 years ago is not there now and will likely not come back with more and more graduates saturating the market. All that said, ortho is still a great gig.

Not that I am interested in Orthodontics, but I doubt there will be an over-supply of orthodontists. In today’s appearance driven society, a healthy smile with straight teeth is becoming necessary for success. More Adults are willing to invest in their own orthodontic maintenance, and less affluent families will want their children to have access to affordable orthodontic treatments. Getting access to orthodontic treatment is already shifting from a privilege people elect to a “right” they expect.

I read an article (it might have been JADA), that 75 percent of people may benefit from orthodontic care, but many are not served. I do agree that general dentists are getting a fair share of this demand, I know GPs who limited their practice to orthodontics. That's why we now have CE courses for GPs to do class 1 orthodontics.

Regardless of how many new programs open up, the # of new ortho grads are not enough to sustain the current number of practicing orthodontists, given attrition from retirement. Various estimates have projected the number of US and Canadian orthodontists to decline from ~9-10,000 today to anywhere from 7-8,000 over the next decade, not to mention the growth of population during that time.

 

[Guy Smiley]

Not that I am interested in Orthodontics, but I doubt there will be an over-supply of orthodontists. In today’s appearance driven society, a healthy smile with straight teeth is becoming necessary for success. More Adults are willing to invest in their own orthodontic maintenance, and less affluent families will want their children to have access to affordable orthodontic treatments. Getting access to orthodontic treatment is already shifting from a privilege people elect to a “right” they expect.

I read an article (it might have been JADA), that 75 percent of people may benefit from orthodontic care, but many are not served. I do agree that general dentists are getting a fair share of this demand, I know GPs who limited their practice to orthodontics. That's why we now have CE courses for GPs to do class 1 orthodontics.

Regardless of how many new programs open up, the # of new ortho grads are not enough to sustain the current number of practicing orthodontists, given attrition from retirement. Various estimates have projected the number of US and Canadian orthodontists to decline from ~9-10,000 today to anywhere from 7-8,000 over the next decade, not to mention the growth of population during that time.

I am calling BS on this one. I'd really like to see who made this estimate and when. Most of the upperclassmen I know getting ready to graduate from ortho are having a hard time finding even an associate position. I know some who are just going to open from scratch because they don't have any other opitons available. The market tanking has most orthos I know planning on working years longer than they were going to.

 

[Cold Front]

I am calling BS on this one. I'd really like to see who made this estimate and when. Most of the upperclassmen I know getting ready to graduate from ortho are having a hard time finding even an associate position. I know some who are just going to open from scratch because they don't have any other opitons available. The market tanking has most orthos I know planning on working years longer than they were going to.

I am assuming your friends want to work in areas which are already over-saturated. There is always a shortage and opportunities for any dentist, the problem has always been uneven distribution.

 

[Guy Smiley]

I am assuming your friends want to work in areas which are already over-saturated. There is always a shortage and opportunities for any dentist, the problem has always been uneven distribution.

That's hard to say, but I do know that several gys looking for jobs in the Mid-West couldn't find anything...I dunno anyone looking in Cali or UT. Also, you can't be an orthodontist in a town of 5000 like you can be a general dentist in a town of 5000. You need more people than that to support a full time practice. But if you know of places that are in dire need of orthos, please post them so I know where to be looking in 2 years.

 

[barbed wire]

I am assuming your friends want to work in areas which are already over-saturated. There is always a shortage and opportunities for any dentist, the problem has always been uneven distribution.

Somewhat true for ortho. There are some markets that are really saturated and others that are only saturated. According to the McGill & Hill group, overcapacity is a serious issue in orthodontics. They stated most orthodontists are operating at only 60-70% of optimal capacity.

 

[charlestweed]

Most of the upperclassmen I know getting ready to graduate from ortho are having a hard time finding even an associate position. I know some who are just going to open from scratch because they don't have any other opitons available. The market tanking has most orthos I know planning on working years longer than they were going to.

Your friends cannot find jobs because most orthodontists don't really need to have an associate in their offices. With the help of 5-6 low paid ortho RDAs, an orthodontist can easily see 100+ patients a day.

For ortho, you have to start your own practice. With 120k-150k, you can have a decent ortho office. Don't listen to the sale reps who try to convince you to buy their hi-tech equipments. Trust me, there is no shortage of ortho patients. Ortho tx are not just for kids....but also for many working adults (especially in big cities).

 

[cuneatus2]

Your friends cannot find jobs because most orthodontists don’t really need to have an associate in their offices. With the help of 5-6 low paid ortho RDAs, an orthodontist can easily see 100+ patients a day.

For ortho, you have to start your own practice. With 120k-150k, you can have a decent ortho office. Don't listen to the sale reps who try to convince you to buy their hi-tech equipments. Trust me, there is no shortage of ortho patients. Ortho tx are not just for kids....but also for many working adults (especially in big cities).

I appreciate your optimism charlestweed, but you seem to be the only person I know that says this.

 

[charlestweed]

I appreciate your optimism charlestweed, but you seem to be the only person I know that says this.

How can you not be successful when you pick the best specialty in dentistry and you practice in the USA, the land of opportunity, the country that promotes personal freedom and capitalism? Saturation of orthodontists has always been a problem for many years. If I can do it and do it well, so can any of the ortho resident who post on this thread. And there's nothing special about me or about my practices:

- I speak English w/ a heavy accent. I didn't speak a word of English when I came to the US at the age of 16. I took ESL classes while most of the college kids took upper division writing classes.
- All 3 of my offices are 100% non-digital. Most of my equipments are very old except for the main office that I set up from scratch 5 years ago.
- I don't do cool stuff like TAD, Invisalign, Herbst etc. I don't do a lot of phase I treatments either.
- Like most ortho residents, I owed $450k in student loans (my wife went to USC).
- About my social skill, I'd give myself an F. I always feel bad about my poor English speaking skill so I don't invite the referring GPs for lunch. I show up, bring the gifts, greet the GPs and their staff and that's pretty much it.
- About my business skills, I'd also give myself an F. It took me almost 4 years to finally decide to set up an office from scratch because I was afraid of failure.
- And finally, I practice in one of the most saturated markets in the US, Southern California. I didn't do any demographic research before I set up an office. A good GP friend of mine told me to set it up near her office....and I took her advice.

So what is my secret? Two words "low overhead".

 

[Demeter]

I'd like to see some references to back up that statement. In my opinion of my profession, VERY few pediatric dentists are doing full bracket/band cases. Pediatric dentists should be doing space maintenance, and I believe that most are (B&L, nance, LLHA, TPA, etc.). I also think that some are doing interceptive or phase 1 orthodontics, but that those numbers are somewhat limited. All of this should make cases easier for the orthodontist.

For most typical pediatric practices, it seems that providing orthodontics results in lesser income potential, especially when cost of instruments and time are factored into the equation. The majority of pediatric dentists have no interest in providing orthodontics. It simply isn't worth our time. This is all anecdotal evidence based on those I have seen and spoken to. Don't forget that by all published accounts the income of a pediatric dentist surpassed that of the orthodontist several years ago. We don't need orthodontics to make money in our specialty.

I can't comment on general dentists increasing their interests in orthodontics, but I'd be interested to see how that is going in the current economic state.

I agree with Gavin,

Most Pediatric dentist have their hands full dealing with early childhood. I would rather be practicing my speciality and have a day booked in the OR or a schedule full of sedations then to start messing around ortho.
SO I would not worry too much about pediatric dentists competing for ortho patients.