USC First YR Cost of Attendance $162k 2022-2023

[Cold Front]

She has been too focused on school and training in the past few years to be able to find someone, and tbh at age 34 the odds are not in her favor anymore.

Ouch!

I think she has a good chance of finding a partner as a highly educated woman. Most do. The average age of getting married in this country is about 30 years old. So 34 is not that far outside 30.

Women are expected to be at the peak of their potential to get married in their 20’s, which is essentially the same period they should focus on education and professional career development. In their 30’s, they are considered less appealing to get married, so the odds of that happening is low. I mean… WTF! While men are considered to get married at any age without issues. In fact, I have heard sexist references like “men age like wine, while women age like milk” from people who believe in this stuff.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[D1Bound]

Ouch!

I think she has a good chance of finding a partner as a highly educated woman. Most do. The average age of getting married in this country is about 30 years old. So 34 is not that far outside 30.

Women are expected to be at the peak of their potential to get married in their 20’s, which is essentially the same period they should focus on education and professional career development. In their 30’s, they are considered less appealing to get married, so the odds of that happening is low. I mean… WTF! While men are considered to get married at any age without issues. In fact, I have heard sexist references like “men age like wine, while women age like milk” from people who believe in this stuff.

Many of the young professional males are looking for a wife. They're not necessarily looking for anything more than that. I'd like a survey or some research to see what a majority of males want in 2022.

 

[Cold Front]

Many of the young professional males are looking for a wife. They're not necessarily looking for anything more than that. I'd like a survey or some research to see what a majority of males want in 2022.

Well, I have bad news on that… more and more women are going to college and professional schools. Most dental students are females now. So men will marry up soon regardless of a woman’s age. Most billionaire heirs are women, so most wealthy people will soon be women. We live in a capitalistic world. Most people will choose money over a young love. I welcome that.

 

[D1Bound]

Well, I have bad news on that… more and more women are going to college and professional schools. Most dental students are females now. So men will marry up soon regardless of a woman’s age. Most billionaire heirs are women, so most wealthy people will soon be women. We live in a capitalistic world. Most people will choose money over a young love. I welcome that.

Why would a man "marry up" when he can simply "up" himself?

 

[GoDental101]

Well, I have bad news on that… more and more women are going to college and professional schools. Most dental students are females now. So men will marry up soon regardless of a woman’s age. Most billionaire heirs are women, so most wealthy people will soon be women. We live in a capitalistic world. Most people will choose money over a young love. I welcome that.

Most men don’t consider marrying up based off of wealth, or career…marrying up for most men is more based on how good looking the women is and how good of a caretaker he thinks she would be for him and his future children as well as how personable she is of course.

 

[Cold Front]

Most men don’t consider marrying up based off of wealth, or career…marrying up for most men is more based on how good looking the women is and how good of a caretaker he thinks she would be for him and his future children as well as how personable she is of course.

I agree. But most college degree level jobs are now held by women. Most of those women won’t marry down, specially if they have professional degrees. Most of those women are also in their late 20’s to late 30’s - so they have delayed marriage and having kids. This is all in 2020 census report. We all know (historically) women relied more on their husbands financially. But as more women become financially independent, more men will need to update their resume and bring other attributes to the table.

 

[D1Bound]

I agree. But most college degree level jobs are now held by women. Most of those women won’t marry down, specially if they have professional degrees. Most of those women are also in their late 20’s to late 30’s - so they have delayed marriage and having kids. This is all in 2020 census report. We all know (historically) women relied more on their husbands financially. But as more women become financially independent, more men will need to update their resume and bring other attributes to the table.

"More men will need to update their resume and bring other attributes to the table."
There are plenty of librarians, school teachers, counselors, dental hygienists, dental assistants, nurses, childhood education majors, etc for a man to consider. I could go on. A male does not have to meet the criteria of a woman with a professional degree. He can simply look for a wife that is the best fit for him. If the wife is a doctor and that's what he prefers, great. If the wife is a receptionist and that's what he prefers, great. Good for him.

 

[charlestweed]

If you go to usc and owe $600k, you better find a wife who works and contributes. Gotta be realistic here. If you plan to marry a pretty girl who doesn't work, you better make sure she knows that she is about to marry a broke dentist. Financial disagreement is one of the top reasons for divorce.

 

[GoDental101]

If you go to usc and owed $600k, you better find a wife who works and contributes. Gotta be realistic here. If you plan to marry a pretty girl who doesn't work, you better make sure she knows that she is about to marry a broke dentist. Financial disagreement is one of the top reasons for divorce.

i agree that 600k for usc is outrageous…however a women doesn’t have to work to contribute. The most contribution to society she can make is raise kids that have their heads on straight. Most kids these days don’t know right from wrong, up from down, left from right etc not to say you can’t do a good job raising kids if mom and dad both work but it definitely is a challenge either way.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Lol good luck trying to convince your wife not to work with 600k in loans on a 250k salary unless she had a trust fund or smthg

 

[SigmaFS]

An acquaintance of mine graduated with $400k debt from a DO school. She matched and about to finish her 3 years of internal med residency. She’s 34 and single. Do you think if she is in a good position financially?

What's her specialty? The pay difference between FM, Peds vs EM or Orthopedics is significant.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

What's her specialty? The pay difference between FM, Peds vs EM or Orthopedics is significant.

Says internal medicine so presumably a hospitalist or PCP. Most likely making 300k unless in academics.

 

[Cold Front]

This thread steered towards to a full blown ALL EGO.

Many of you don’t realize that the number of unmarried Americans continues to grow. In 1950, 20% of adult Americans were single. Today it’s over 50%. It’s even higher in most parts of Europe and in the developed parts of Asia. Marriage was always pushed by society through politics and religion, both of which have been growing out of favor in people’s lives in developed countries. It’s a complex topic, but that’s the trend.

Many nations have been pushing for gender equality, access to education and family planning. Every married couple with a daughter raised her to pursue happiness through those pillars. Historically, it was church, marriage and family - all of which are no longer seen as a priority over education for most parents. If you enlighten a person hard enough, they will seek change from the norms.

Anyways… modern women came a long way, and most men refuse to understand the evolution. They still consider women to be supportive at home and rear ending lifestyle. Not all women are against that, but women education is what changed the concept of getting married. Just look at divorce rates in this country, marriage is no longer taken very seriously. It has become very optional, specially for women.

 

[GoDental101]

This thread steered towards to a full blown ALL EGO.

Many of you don’t realize that the number of unmarried Americans continues to grow. In 1950, 20% of adult Americans were single. Today it’s over 50%. It’s even higher in most parts of Europe and in the developed parts of Asia. Marriage was always pushed by society through politics and religion, both of which have been growing out of favor in people’s lives in developed countries. It’s a complex topic, but that’s the trend.

Many nations have been pushing for gender equality, access to education and family planning. Every married couple with a daughter raised her to pursue happiness through those pillars. Historically, it was church, marriage and family - all of which are no longer seen as a priority over education for most parents. If you enlighten a person hard enough, they will seek change from the norms.

Anyways… modern women came a long way, and most men refuse to understand the evolution. They still consider women to be supportive at home and rear ending lifestyle. Not all women are against that, but women education is what changed the concept of getting married. Just look at divorce rates in this country, marriage is no longer taken very seriously. It has become very optional, specially for women.

Lol this sounds like straight brainwash/propaganda to me…there are plenty of women out there looking for a conservative type of lifestyle with a traditional family. If that’s what you want you can definitely find it. I found one and it’s been great. Maybe the reason of the trends you mentioned are because of the push in changing the traditional roles of men and women in the family/society.

The sad thing that I see all too often especially in dental school is when women that think they need education or prestige to be attractive/desirable in the eyes of men because that’s not true.

 

[Cold Front]

Lol this sounds like straight brainwash/propaganda to me…there are plenty of women out there looking for a conservative type of lifestyle with a traditional family. I found one and it’s been great. Maybe the reason of the trends you mentioned are because of the push in changing the traditional roles of men and women in the family/society.

What part of my post was propaganda?

 

[GoDental101]

What part of my post was propaganda?

That many nations are pushing for gender equality…it sounds like a nice idea and I do believe that men and women already have equal rights, but that doesn’t mean the need to or should fulfill societal roles equally. If the women wants to do that then that’s fine, but I don’t think the government or society should be compelling them towards that or away from a traditional family life which is what I believe is happening on a large scale level throughout many cultures.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

The best way is to marry another doctor or dentist. Two physician incomes put one comfortably within the top 1%

That income level pushes one from being upper middle class, having a nice little lake house to upper class, having a house in aspen or Breckinridge, black card etc.

 

[charlestweed]

i agree that 600k for usc is outrageous…however a women doesn’t have to work to contribute. The most contribution to society she can make is raise kids that have their heads on straight. Most kids these days don’t know right from wrong, up from down, left from right etc not to say you can’t do a good job raising kids if mom and dad both work but it definitely is a challenge either way.

Kids are expensive. Both parents should work. If you want your kids to grow up in a nice safe environment, you need to live in a more expensive neighborhood with better schools. It will cost you more $$$ if you want to put them in private Christian/Catholic schools. If you want your kids to be a well rounded individual, you have to pay for their music lesson and sport lessons. These lessons should help them learn to discipline themselves and stay away from other troubles. You don’t have to be with your kids 24/7 in order to raise them well. You can work while they’re in school. When they get older, you have to give them some personal space and let them know that you trust them. Kids don’t want their parents breathing down on their necks all the time. It’s not easy to raise a teenager.

It’s also safer financially to have both working parents. If something happens to one of the parents (automobile accident, cancer, death etc), the other parent can still provide for the family. It’s good to have life and disability insurances…and again, you need $$$ to pay for these insurances.

It’s good to have a wife who has a college degree…who had gone through the process (of taking the SAT, ACT, AP exams and applying for colleges so she can use these experiences to teach the kids to be a better student in school. Being an educated person yourself should help you raise your kids better (academically).

 

[Cold Front]

That many nations are pushing for gender equality…it sounds like a nice idea and I do believe that men and women already have equal rights, but that doesn’t mean the need to or should fulfill societal roles equally. If the women wants to do that then that’s fine, but I don’t think the government or society should be compelling them towards that or away from a traditional family life which is what I believe is happening on a large scale level throughout many cultures.

So basically we are saying the same thing. You acknowledge that the world has changed and education has pushed society to move further from the norms.

As far as men and women having equal rights, I very much doubt it. At least not in pay and wages at the workplace, or leadership positions. Heck, we are still stuck to racial biases in this country. Women still have long way to go to have equitable equal rights. Those who say they already have are usually men and are intimidated by the idea.

The concept of traditional family life is not going anywhere, but I do think educated women will have more and better roles in their families than they did in the past. Some men are finding themselves insecure about that. Bottom line, the idea of having conservative principles in general is good for society, but there are many elements of those principles that do not encourage change and progress - because the status quo in those circles discourages change. For the same reason progressiveness can go too far and often crosses over beyond acceptable boundaries of the larger society. A balance between the two principles is the sweet spot, but overtime a larger progressive change in society is the outcome.

 

[AONLINE]

The best way is to marry another doctor or dentist. Two physician incomes put one comfortably within the top 1%

That income level pushes one from being upper middle class, having a nice little lake house to upper class, having a house in aspen or Breckinridge, black card etc.

Lol two physician incomes, definitely. A physician + a dentist, not so much since dentists make no where near what a physician could make.

 

[Cold Front]

It’s good to have a wife who has a college degree…who had gone through the process (of taking the SAT, ACT, AP exams and applying for colleges so she can use these experiences to teach the kids to be a better student in school. Being an educated person yourself should help you raise your kids better (academically).

This was my point in my previous posts. It’s the new “expectation” to have a well educated (potential) wife/husband equally for most couples. Our parents’ generations was very much less so. If our mothers had professional education (doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc) we would be “more” informed kids and adults. When our parents generation met, it was more about… “is she from a good family and some preferences about her faith?”. And vice-versa for men, with emphasis on the man’s job and his trade skills. Today, there is more… “where did she go to school and her profession” that is equally or more important to ask.

 

[Cold Front]

Lol two physician incomes, definitely. A physician + a dentist, not so much since dentists make no where near what a physician could make.

A highly motivated dentist always makes more money than a physician. Always.

 

[D1Bound]

Exactly. I can make my own money. I could careless if she’s an heiress or a stay at home wife.
After a long day at work I want someone that is happy to see me back from work, cooks delicious food, and takes care of me and my children. Someone who is not obsessed with money or prestige and values family and relationship as the most important thing. And yes it’s possible to find a woman that has these criteria and still pretty(in my eyes at least 😂).

Not saying that professional women don’t have the criteria above. If you can meet a woman that is successful and also match your personality and you like physically then consider yourself lucky.

IMO most successful men don’t care about their wife’s status. Number one is always physical attraction. Women on the other hand will always have a criteria or a “minimum” success level they want in a man. Especially successful women.

This is why we always see many successful not so attractive males marrying/dating a super pretty girl 🤩 but not the other way around.

This thread steered towards to a full blown ALL EGO.

Many of you don’t realize that the number of unmarried Americans continues to grow. In 1950, 20% of adult Americans were single. Today it’s over 50%. It’s even higher in most parts of Europe and in the developed parts of Asia. Marriage was always pushed by society through politics and religion, both of which have been growing out of favor in people’s lives in developed countries. It’s a complex topic, but that’s the trend.

Many nations have been pushing for gender equality, access to education and family planning. Every married couple with a daughter raised her to pursue happiness through those pillars. Historically, it was church, marriage and family - all of which are no longer seen as a priority over education for most parents. If you enlighten a person hard enough, they will seek change from the norms.

Anyways… modern women came a long way, and most men refuse to understand the evolution. They still consider women to be supportive at home and rear ending lifestyle. Not all women are against that, but women education is what changed the concept of getting married. Just look at divorce rates in this country, marriage is no longer taken very seriously. It has become very optional, specially for women.

Not sure what culture you are from, but no one has asked me where the people I dated went to school. They ask “What is she like? Is she sweet?”
Your remark about marriage being “optional” for women is interesting. I suppose it is. Women who work can simply live and exist independently, but so can men. Then where does this take us?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Lol two physician incomes, definitely. A physician + a dentist, not so much since dentists make no where near what a physician could make.

True, even then I think aspen might be pushing it. Was just on Zillow and a 500 square foot place not even on the mountain is 1.5 million.

Probably would need hedge fund manager money to buy a place there

 

[GoDental101]

You're clearly just intimidated by women

Not sure what culture you are from, but no one has asked me where the people I dated went to school. They ask “What is she like? Is she sweet?”
Your remark about marriage being “optional” for women is interesting. I suppose it is. Women who work can simply live and exist independently, but so can men. Then where does this take us?

This thread has totally derailed LOL

 

[charlestweed]

A highly motivated dentist always makes more money than a physician. Always.

Couldn’t agree more. To be successful in any profession, one has to be highly motivated. And hopefully, the $600k debt amount, which cannot be discharged by filing bankruptcy, is large enough to motivate the individual to work harder.

 

[charlestweed]

Not sure what culture you are from, but no one has asked me where the people I dated went to school. They ask “What is she like? Is she sweet?”
Your remark about marriage being “optional” for women is interesting. I suppose it is. Women who work can simply live and exist independently, but so can men. Then where does this take us?

The criteria for dating and for marriage are very different. Being nice and sweet may not be enough to maintain a happy marriage.

 

[D1Bound]

This thread has totally derailed LOL

I meant to delete that troll remark

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Perhaps but I know that most pain docs and pp spine/orthos make 1 million +

 

[deleted903013]

The concept of traditional family life is not going anywhere, but I do think educated women will have more and better roles in their families than they did in the past.

In practice, having a traditional family is very very difficult because the concept of the "family wage" got deteriorated so it now takes two incomes to support a family when it only took one for my parents and grandparent's generations.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

We’re now 7 pages deep into this thread and I’m still waiting on NYU and USC to give me my watch. Why isn’t anyone else bringing that fact up?! Doesn’t anyone care about Big Hoss and how this is directly affecting him?!

Big Hoss

 

[LFA20]

This thread steered towards to a full blown ALL EGO.

Many of you don’t realize that the number of unmarried Americans continues to grow. In 1950, 20% of adult Americans were single. Today it’s over 50%. It’s even higher in most parts of Europe and in the developed parts of Asia. Marriage was always pushed by society through politics and religion, both of which have been growing out of favor in people’s lives in developed countries. It’s a complex topic, but that’s the trend.

Many nations have been pushing for gender equality, access to education and family planning. Every married couple with a daughter raised her to pursue happiness through those pillars. Historically, it was church, marriage and family - all of which are no longer seen as a priority over education for most parents. If you enlighten a person hard enough, they will seek change from the norms.

Anyways… modern women came a long way, and most men refuse to understand the evolution. They still consider women to be supportive at home and rear ending lifestyle. Not all women are against that, but women education is what changed the concept of getting married. Just look at divorce rates in this country, marriage is no longer taken very seriously. It has become very optional, specially for women.

Exactly. It’s plain and simple. What does each person have to bring to the table? A woman that is highly educated AND attractive will have NO problem replacing you (not you specifically lol). She can easily find another partner.

 

[D1Bound]

Exactly. It’s plain and simple. What does each person have to bring to the table? A woman that is highly educated AND attractive will have NO problem replacing you (not you specifically lol). She can easily find another partner.

While she’s young, yes. A man would have no issue replacing a woman with someone younger. I’m not endorsing this morally but it is what it is

 

[NITRAS]

In practice, having a traditional family is very very difficult because the concept of the "family wage" got deteriorated so it now takes two incomes to support a family when it only took one for my parents and grandparent's generations.

It’s more complicated than that. the standard house in the 1960’s was 1600 square feet, people had a single car, maybe a TV and ate all their meals at home. Vacations were a road trip local.

Now the average house is 2600 square feet, people have two cars, go out to eat multiple times a week. Some even the majority of their meals. Vacations usually involve air travel.

I know it is evein more to it. Fewer people get married. (More people cohabitate now than are married btw) We (as a society) don’t value children nearly as much, and generally, people are more self focused.

 

[Cold Front]

Exactly. It’s plain and simple. What does each person have to bring to the table? A woman that is highly educated AND attractive will have NO problem replacing you (not you specifically lol). She can easily find another partner.

Exactly. In academic circles… fewer and fewer men are going to college and graduate school recently. Even in dental school. So in theory, men will marry up in education and probably in income. But for the larger society, women are still marrying up, but that rate is slowing down as more women get educated. Again, this is not news to those who understand demographics and trends in our society.

 

[Cold Front]

Not sure what culture you are from, but no one has asked me where the people I dated went to school. They ask “What is she like? Is she sweet?”
Your remark about marriage being “optional” for women is interesting. I suppose it is. Women who work can simply live and exist independently, but so can men. Then where does this take us?

We’re not talking specific community or background. Look at all the dating websites and match apps, profiles are not just based on how a filtered photo makes someone look cute, but what else is going on in their life. When the average person dates a potential spouse and things reach “meet the parents” level, the parents are expecting to be impressed as much as they can. Not all parents, but most are. One day you will be a parent and you would expect to be impressed too. It’s a human nature and the times we live in. But not all is lost if your kid brings you a cashier from a grocery store, or an airline flight attendant.

Bottom line… A good person can come from any field, but not all fields produce a good person.

 

[D1Bound]

We’re not talking specific community or background. Look at all the dating websites and match apps, profiles are not just based on how a filtered photo makes someone look cute, but what else is going on in their life. When the average person dates a potential spouse and things reach “meet the parents” level, the parents are expecting to be impressed as much as they can. Not all parents, but most are. One day you will be a parent and you would expect to be impressed too. It’s a human nature and the times we live in. But not all is lost if your kid brings you a cashier from a grocery store, or an airline flight attendant.

Bottom line… A good person can come from any field, but not all fields produce a good person.

I could have a son who is dating a neurosurgeon and I wouldn't think this a good thing. This "success" actually would take time away from nurturing children, which I think is incredibly important. I'm just trying to paint this picture because there are a lot of people that think the same way as me and aren't buying in to all of this "must get education" trend.

 

[bergus95]

as an aside, interest rates for grad plus loans are over 7.5%

 

[Tootyfruity]

160k a year to teach yourself. usc sucks.

 

[D1Bound]

as an aside, interest rates for grad plus loans are over 7.5%

I'm speechless. What is the amount of gov sponsored loans you can get before you have to get grad plus?

 

[Cold Front]

I'm speechless. What is the amount of gov sponsored loans you can get before you have to get grad plus?

Depending on the length of the academic year. For 9 months, the limit is about 40k/yr. For 12 months, it’s about 47k/yr. Once the limits are reached, then dental students can access more debt through grad plus. All dental students who need federal student loans for all their finances will take grad plus loans, as there is no dental school in the nation that charges less than 350k with cost of living.

 

[Cold Front]

160k a year to teach yourself. usc sucks.

It’s higher than that for the new application cycle that starts this month. Those applicants will be looking at closer to 170k for their first year cost of attendance. Ironically, 160k is somehow considered cheap at USC from here on.

 

[Cold Front]

I could have a son who is dating a neurosurgeon and I wouldn't think this a good thing. This "success" actually would take time away from nurturing children, which I think is incredibly important. I'm just trying to paint this picture because there are a lot of people that think the same way as me and aren't buying in to all of this "must get education" trend.

Education is the path to more opportunities in life. For many, it’s the chance to get out of poverty. I think every parent wants the most education possible for their child. However, it’s usually the child that has the final say on the matter. But the kids who go all the way with education end up like us and become picky about who and when they should marry. Education is the great divider in a society, more than money.

 

[frys20]

The bottom line is finding the partner that will make you happy. If a highly educated women who deviates from traditional family roles is your thing, great. If you value traditional family roles then marry a women who wishes to be a stay at home mother. Having a lot of money does not always lead to happiness. Just find that women that will be there for you no matter if you’re successful or not.

 

[Cold Front]

The bottom line is finding the partner that will make you happy. If a highly educated women who deviates from traditional family roles is your thing, great. If you value traditional family roles then marry a women who wishes to be a stay at home mother. Having a lot of money does not always lead to happiness. Just find that women that will be there for you no matter if you’re successful or not.

All true. But the discussion was more on less women choosing to be stay at home and more women pursuing education and career. Not to say there are not enough women choosing to be stay at home, and if men can’t choose one or the other to be happy, and Vice Versa.

 

[charlestweed]

Education is the path to more opportunities in life. For many, it’s the chance to get out of poverty. I think every parent wants the most education possible for their child. However, it’s usually the child that has the final say on the matter. But the kids who go all the way with education end up like us and become picky about who and when they should marry. Education is the great divider in a society, more than money.

There are a lot of benefits of having a college education besides having the greater income earning potential. College grads tend to have better time management skills and can multitask. They tend to have better reading/writing and communication skills. They tend to be more goal-oriented. They are more responsible at meeting all the deadlines. They set goals. All these plus qualities should help make them better at parenting their children. Studies have shown that children in households, which have parents (or one of the parents) who have a college degree, are themselves more likely to earn a college degree.

 

[allantois]

There are a lot of benefits of having a college education besides having the greater income earning potential. College grads tend to have better time management skills and can multitask. They tend to have better reading/writing and communication skills. They tend to be more goal-oriented. They are more responsible at meeting all the deadlines. They set goals. All these plus qualities should help make them better at parenting their children. Studies have shown that children in households, which have parents (or one of the parents) who have a college degree, are themselves more likely to earn a college degree.

But is that because they are college grads or are they college grads because of those things?

 

[charlestweed]

But is that because they are college grads or are they college grads because of those things?

People choose to go to college because they want a better future and job security. They tend to be more ambitious than people who choose to settle for a low wage entry level job after high school. They tend to work harder....they tend to be better at disciplining themselves…they tend to be better at making sacrfice......and that’s why they have good GPAs for getting accepted to colleges.

 

[Cold Front]

Since this thread started, 2 new dental schools has been announced.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Since this thread started, 2 new dental schools has been announced.

This seems like it’s an even bigger problem in dentistry (despite all the new med schools opening up too) because there is no residency slot limits on the number of licensed practitioners. Why are the dentists who run things undercutting themselves?