USC First Year Cost Of Attendance $114k

[Cold Front]

USC Dean of clinical affairs reduced our clinic time to 4 sessions a week for seniors and 2 sessions a week for juniors. Each sessions is about 3 hours, unless you have rotations, we essentially sit at home 4 days a week. you can no longer choose which faculty you want to work with. My wife asked me why am I paying USC top dollars as a part time student LOL. Future applicants be warned. Oh that and PBL.

So the tuition would actually be much higher if they didn't cut back on the essentials? Ha!

I have this theory that some schools are actually saving money every year, by either increasing class sizes or replacing low level faculty and staff with cheaper substitutes, and possibly retiring existing debt and consolidating classes/clinics. They could also be investing the profits in markets to make more money out of the scheme.

So why does a 4 year school go up $50k for each student in just 3 years (additional $5mill a year in revenue a year)? Because the paying students are part of the problem.

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[jeffk805dent]

USC Dean of clinical affairs reduced our clinic time to 4 sessions a week for seniors and 2 sessions a week for juniors. Each sessions is about 3 hours, unless you have rotations, we essentially sit at home 4 days a week. you can no longer choose which faculty you want to work with. My wife asked me why am I paying USC top dollars as a part time student LOL. Future applicants be warned. Oh that and PBL.

wow and I thought my time at UNLV was ****ty.

 

[nonociceptors]

wow and I thought my time at UNLV was ****ty.

What was so bad about your time at UNLV?

 

[jeffk805dent]

What was so bad about your time at UNLV?

good number of faculty didnt seem enthusiastic to be there and had a jaded view on dentistry. Dr. Ancajas was a bright spot though.

 

[nonociceptors]

good number of faculty didnt seem enthusiastic to be there and had a jaded view on dentistry. Dr. Ancajas was a bright spot though.

Dr. Kingsley seems interesting to say the least. Not intended to be an insult or a compliment...

 

[shallsen]

Is it possible to get students loan for this entire amount? Or do you have to have a degree of family money to make USC possible?

 

[Incis0r]

Is it possible to get students loan for this entire amount? Or do you have to have a degree of family money to make USC possible?

You can get federal loans for full amount.

 

[IAlongbuccal]

Ugh interviewing here soon..
But would you say that that gives you more time to focus on things that will help you get into a specialty program?

I'm not sure what you want to focus on, if you wanna get on externships or do research then I guess you have more time ya. Our grads get into specialties just fine, on a side note, USC ortho saves half of their seats for USC grads. I did have a TON of time during my first 2 years, not the case if you go to any other schools.

Even if you dislike PBL, would you say that its better preparing you for real world critical thinking?

Short answer is no, I think PBL cases in adjunct to a traditional classes would be perfect. Here's what your typical PBL session looks like: you're presented with a case of this ill patient, everyone in group tries to identifies the system associated with the illness, possible pathology, medications, etc. then you split up the topics to each member and write a paper that's totally useless because wiki already has it, then you present it to the group the next session. often you miss on certain topics because your group missed it during discussion, or that the member wrote a crappy paper, then comes exam time you're totally caught off guard that you even have to study an obscure subject that has nothing to do w/ the case, unless of course you're close to certain student organizations, then you would never get caught off guard during exams LOL

Why did they do this?
What kind/how many of procedures are USC students graduating with?

Supposedly the clinic wasn't running as efficient as the new dean has hoped. Oh if your patient cannot come in on the days you're assigned you have to transfer them to another student, sucks. Here's the requirements off top of my head

4 Endo 1 has to be a molar
3 arches of complete dentures
2 arches of RPD
30 direct composites
9 crown/cadcam onlay
20 something quads of sc/rp
2 FPD or 2 Implant cases (perio places the implants unless it's very straight forward then students do it)
then you have miscellaneous stuff like treatment plannings.

I do feel competent in doing all the above procedures except gnarly molar endo.
can anyone shed light on what other schools' requirements are? from what I've been told, Tufts has almost double our requirements.

 

[Frank22]

http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dds/cost-of-attendance/

Total 4 year cost: little north of $400k, actual number is about $450k if you include interest accrued during school.

At about 6% interest rate, that's $2,250 a month of just interest payment after graduation.

At this rate, in 5 years, USC will charge $500k to teach you dentistry.

What do folks at USC think of all this? Cater to the rich?

Good grief smh.

 

[oralcare123]

Good grief smh.

No one is forcing anyone into that school. Just do not go. You also do not have to buy an island in the Mediterranean Sea or Bentley or Rolex

 

[jeffk805dent]

No one is forcing anyone into that school. Just do not go. You also do not have to buy an island in the Mediterranean Sea or Bentley or Rolex

but but my investment banker friend is driving a Porsche 911 in Monaco. Thats not fair!



(sarcasm)

 

[oralcare123]

but but my investment banker friend is driving a Porsche 911 in Monaco. Thats not fair!



(sarcasm)

Become an investment banker

 

[comatose]

i think many dental students and pre-dents are misinformed about what dentistry entails. it is VERY stressful work to do microsurgeries on patients who are awake and scared to death. we have a much more difficult job than an average physician. keep that in mind when deciding dentistry vs. medicine. yes physicians work more hours; however, they have more job security, better benefits (dentists have to pay for their own insurances and do not get paid vaca or sick leave), and the nature of the work is less stressful (writing scripts, not having to cause patients pain, not breaking their backs). it's all relative. I would easily choose medicine if i knew then what i know now.

 

[jeffk805dent]

i think many dental students and pre-dents are misinformed about what dentistry entails. it is VERY stressful work to do microsurgeries on patients who are awake and scared to death. we have a much more difficult job than an average physician. keep that in mind when deciding dentistry vs. medicine. yes physicians work more hours; however, they have more job security, better benefits (dentists have to pay for their own insurances and do not get paid vaca or sick leave), and the nature of the work is less stressful (writing scripts, not having to cause patients pain, not breaking their backs). it's all relative. I would easily choose medicine if i knew then what i know now.

you might want to check out the allopathic forum. There's a good talk about burnout as a MD/DO (especially as an EM).

 

[nonociceptors]

and the nature of the work is less stressful (writing scripts, not having to cause patients pain, not breaking their backs). it's all relative. I would easily choose medicine if i knew then what i know now.

on what planet does the job of all physicians only entail writing scripts?

 

[Frank22]

No one is forcing anyone into that school. Just do not go. You also do not have to buy an island in the Mediterranean Sea or Bentley or Rolex

Sure... business is business... Laissez-faire rules the day.

 

[oralcare123]

Sure... business is business... Laissez-faire rules the day.

I agree, that prices for tuition are insane. I think Loma Linda is even higher. A lot of people think that those prices are unfair,including me, but the thing is - they are not going to change to the better, unfortunately. Even state school's tuition is very high

 

[EasTexan]

i think many dental students and pre-dents are misinformed about what dentistry entails. it is VERY stressful work to do microsurgeries on patients who are awake and scared to death. we have a much more difficult job than an average physician. keep that in mind when deciding dentistry vs. medicine. yes physicians work more hours; however, they have more job security, better benefits (dentists have to pay for their own insurances and do not get paid vaca or sick leave), and the nature of the work is less stressful (writing scripts, not having to cause patients pain, not breaking their backs). it's all relative. I would easily choose medicine if i knew then what i know now.

Eh, the MDs I work with own the practice so they're in the same boat as a pp dentist. They go on vacation, they don't make money. What's this about job security? Human teeth aren't going away. Stress? Our MDs take unassigned call at the hospital across the street, they get calls at all hours of the day, major PITA and stressful. They do A LOT more than just sign scripts.

Just anecdotes, of course. Might be a tad off topic.

 

[deleted716403]

http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dds/cost-of-attendance/

Total 4 year cost: little north of $400k, actual number is about $450k if you include interest accrued during school.

At about 6% interest rate, that's $2,250 a month of just interest payment after graduation.

At this rate, in 5 years, USC will charge $500k to teach you dentistry.

What do folks at USC think of all this? Cater to the rich?

Speechless

 

[deleted716403]

Btw, check out: http://studentmarch.org/what-is-millionstudentmarch/

 

[Cold Front]

No one is forcing anyone into that school. Just do not go. You also do not have to buy an island in the Mediterranean Sea or Bentley or Rolex

If you suggest to avoid USC for cost reasons, you might as well avoid these too.

1. Midwestern (Downer's Grove): $503,624 (total living cost as off-campus).
2. Midwestern (Glendale AZ): $480k total cost of living.
3. NYU: $495k including room and board cost.
4. BU: $305k not including Boston living costs (easily $100-150k). $450k
5. UPENN: $440k
6. UOP: $440k
7. Tufts: $425k
8. Nova: $400k
9. Pitts: $400k
10. Case Western: $400k

All these are before interest (so add 5-6% each year over 4 years compounded interest).

Ofcourse not all students will borrow these numbers, but majority will be close to them, some may even borrow over those numbers for residency (add another $200-300k depending for endo, ortho, etc)

 

[oralcare123]

If you suggest to avoid USC for cost reasons, you might as well avoid these too.

1. Midwestern (Downer's Grove): $503,624 (total living cost as off-campus).
2. Midwestern (Glendale AZ): $480k total cost of living.
3. NYU: $495k including room and board cost.
4. BU: $305k not including Boston living costs (easily $100-150k). $450k
5. UPENN: $440k
6. UOP: $440k
7. Tufts: $425k
8. Nova: $400k
9. Pitts: $400k
10. Case Western: $400k

All these are before interest (so add 5-6% each year over 4 years compounded interest).

Ofcourse not all students will borrow these numbers, but majority will be close to them, some may even borrow over those numbers for residency (add another $200-300k depending for endo, ortho, etc)

If that the case, what is all the fuss about USC?
Anyway, there will be mortgage and business loan payments. Tuition is not going to be the worst
Maybe it is time to rethink how education is financed

 

[Incis0r]

Anyway, there will be mortgage and business loan payments. Tuition is not going to be the worst

You can sell a house and pay off the mortgage.
You can sell a business and pay off the loan.
You cannot "sell" your degree. Furthermore, student loans are NOT dischargeable through bankruptcy. They are there for life.

Mortgage loans are typically 3-4% interest.
Business loans like dental practices also are 3-4%.
Federal student loans are 7%.

Out of the three categories you mentioned, student loans are the worst.

 

[Incis0r]

Btw, check out: http://studentmarch.org/what-is-millionstudentmarch/

So I checked the website out, and it says "We are high school, college, and graduate students, recent graduates, campus workers, former students, parents, and grandparents uniting in a day of action on November 12, 2015 to demand... cancellation of all student debt."

So let me be clear about one thing: "cancel" means having the taxpayers pick up the tab. When you become a dentist, you will be a taxpayer.

So in supporting this website, are you saying that it's OKAY for me to be reckless, take on $500K in debt, make only minimum payments on that, and then have taxpayers foot the remainder of it for me? Sweet. No need for personal responsibility right? I'll just take as much out as I can without regard to finances, buy an unaffordable education, and then pawn the loan off on taxpayers like you in the future. And hey, since millions of students will be doing the same thing (after all, the movement is called millionstudentmarch), we should increase the federal income tax rate so that we can pay for all of these loan cancellations. Great idea! After all, I am ENTITLED to not needing to conduct a basic financial analysis on the return on a dental school education. I am ENTITLED to a six-figure income right out of school. I am ENTITLED to make other people pay for my poor decisions...because, you know, screw responsibility when there are millions of other students like me ready to protest.

So when you're making $100K a year your first year as a dentist, we're going to cancel all student debt, increase federal tax rates to 50%+ (to fund the millions of students who agreed with the policy, and leave you with less than 50K to live off of (assuming state tax, etc).

/s

 

[Incis0r]

If you suggest to avoid USC for cost reasons, you might as well avoid these too.

1. Midwestern (Downer's Grove): $503,624 (total living cost as off-campus).
2. Midwestern (Glendale AZ): $480k total cost of living.
3. NYU: $495k including room and board cost.
4. BU: $305k not including Boston living costs (easily $100-150k). $450k
5. UPENN: $440k
6. UOP: $440k
7. Tufts: $425k
8. Nova: $400k
9. Pitts: $400k
10. Case Western: $400k

All these are before interest (so add 5-6% each year over 4 years compounded interest).

Ofcourse not all students will borrow these numbers, but majority will be close to them, some may even borrow over those numbers for residency (add another $200-300k depending for endo, ortho, etc)

How high do you think this craziness will go till? $600K? $800K?

 

[Cold Front]

If that the case, what is all the fuss about USC?
Anyway, there will be mortgage and business loan payments. Tuition is not going to be the worst
Maybe it is time to rethink how education is financed

1. Because USC is most expensive and leading the pack. So they will be the model of these high tuition schools.

2. Speaking relatively, you may not be concerned about this, but the 99% students/applicants are.

3. Student loans default rates are going up every year in this country and dental graduates will not be immune in the foreseeable future if the current trend continues. It's $400-500k debt today, $700-800k in a decade or so.

 

[oralcare123]

You can sell a house and pay off the mortgage.
You can sell a business and pay off the loan.
You cannot "sell" your degree. Furthermore, student loans are NOT dischargeable through bankruptcy. They are there for life.

Mortgage loans are typically 3-4% interest.
Business loans like dental practices also are 3-4%.
Federal student loans are 7%.

Out of the three categories you mentioned, student loans are the worst.

Often you can't sell the house without losing money. Remember 2008? Sure there are forclosure and bankruptcy, but still.
Often you would not be able to sell your business without a loss. Again, there is bankruptcy
And you will be selling your degree every single day for the rest of your life/retirement.
So consider it an investment
For the interest on student loans - thank the government
There is always an option to work and save the money for the education, but do you really want to postpone your life for that long in fear of debt?

 

[oralcare123]

How high do you think this craziness will go till? $600K? $800K?

Till the time people stop applying to those schools

 

[DrJake@TheLake]

$500k+++ to potentially earn anywhere between $100k-$500k a year for 40 years is a good investment IMHO FWIW

 

[oralcare123]

1. Because USC is most expensive and leading the pack. So they will be the model of these high tuition schools.

2. Speaking relatively, you may not be concerned about this, but the 99% students/applicants are.

3. Student loans default rates are going up every year in this country and dental graduates will not be immune in the foreseeable future if the current trend continues. It's $400-500k debt today, $700-800k in a decade or so.

I am not the owner of USC and did not establish those prices, so lighten up.
You want something that is simply impossible in this particular political and economical situation. Prices are regulated by the market, as well as dentist's salaries. If the cost of education was regulated so would be your future salary and, I bet, you would not want it to be regulated by the government
Some people prefer to pay more and have less competition, some prefer to pay less at the state schools and compete till the last breath.
Again, there are still countries in the world, where education is very cheap, but you would not want to go there either.

 

[oralcare123]

So I checked the website out, and it says "We are high school, college, and graduate students, recent graduates, campus workers, former students, parents, and grandparents uniting in a day of action on November 12, 2015 to demand... cancellation of all student debt."

So let me be clear about one thing: "cancel" means having the taxpayers pick up the tab. When you become a dentist, you will be a taxpayer.

So in supporting this website, are you saying that it's OKAY for me to be reckless, take on $500K in debt, make only minimum payments on that, and then have taxpayers foot the remainder of it for me? Sweet. No need for personal responsibility right? I'll just take as much out as I can without regard to finances, buy an unaffordable education, and then pawn the loan off on taxpayers like you in the future. And hey, since millions of students will be doing the same thing (after all, the movement is called millionstudentmarch), we should increase the federal income tax rate so that we can pay for all of these loan cancellations. Great idea! After all, I am ENTITLED to not needing to conduct a basic financial analysis on the return on a dental school education. I am ENTITLED to a six-figure income right out of school. I am ENTITLED to make other people pay for my poor decisions...because, you know, screw responsibility when there are millions of other students like me ready to protest.

So when you're making $100K a year your first year as a dentist, we're going to cancel all student debt, increase federal tax rates to 50%+ (to fund the millions of students who agreed with the policy, and leave you with less than 50K to live off of (assuming state tax, etc).

/s[/QUOTE/

Thank you for saying all of that. People should remember, that debt does not just disappear. I am now paying more for my medical care, because of the introduction of obamacare

 

[Incis0r]

Often you can't sell the house without losing money. Remember 2008? Sure there are forclosure and bankruptcy, but still.
Often you would not be able to sell your business without a loss. Again, there is bankruptcy
And you will be selling your degree every single day for the rest of your life/retirement.
So consider it an investment
For the interest on student loans - thank the government
There is always an option to work and save the money for the education, but do you really want to postpone your life for that long in fear of debt?

The point was that housing and businesses were more liquid than student loans. Also, 2008 was a crash. That's why you had the mortgage crisis. In general, housing prices appreciate. In 2008, the bubble burst because of this same kind of careless lending and frivolous purchase that all these Predental students are engaging in. But hey, why worry when the government is ready to bail us out right?

 

[Incis0r]

(Deleted- accidental double post)

 

[oralcare123]

The point was that housing and businesses were more liquid than student loans. Also, 2008 was a crash. That's why you had the mortgage crisis. In general, housing prices appreciate. In 2008, the bubble burst because of this same kind of careless lending and frivolous purchase that all these Predental students are engaging in. But hey, why worry when the government is ready to bail us out right?

I think there should be some kind of restriction on the yearly increase in tuition, at least

 

[Daurang]

Hillary will win. Tuition will be free or waived with government services. Party on like no tomorrow.

 

[jeffk805dent]

Hillary will win. Tuition will be free or waived with government services. Party on like no tomorrow.

too bad tax will be 50% for entry-level dentists

 

[nonociceptors]

Hillary will win.

Halloween isn't for another couple of weeks. Quit trying to scare me!

 

[Incis0r]

Halloween isn't for another couple of weeks. Quit trying to scare me!

Guess you're going to have some nocireceptors after all

Just do what I'm thinking of doing: get my degree, pay it off, and then move to a country where people still have common sense and practice there.

 

[embrojam]

Halloween isn't for another couple of weeks. Quit trying to scare me!

trump winning is the real halloween scare.
In other news, Trump is going to be such an easy / topical halloween costume this year... that hair

 

[nonociceptors]

trump winning is the real halloween scare.
In other news, Trump is going to be such an easy / topical halloween costume this year... that hair

I'm a few billion and a massive ego short of pulling off the Trump costume haha.

If anyone want to go out as hillary, make sure you wear flip-flops because we all know how much she loves to do that.

 

[Cold Front]

$500k+++ to potentially earn anywhere between $100k-$500k a year for 40 years is a good investment IMHO FWIW

Assuming you don't get your first (and 2nd mortgage), buy/build that first practice, finance a car, have kids, and save fore retirement all at the same time.

$100-500k income (before tax) may seem a lot, but it doesn't make your debt disappear if you don't spend it responsibly.

 

[caliprosth]

$500k+++ to potentially earn anywhere between $100k-$500k a year for 40 years is a good investment IMHO FWIW

Not really. In fact, it's a terrible investment. I went to dental school for free, courtesy of the Navy. Now I'm out. That's the way to do it. Or go to a cheaper school. Why pay 500k when you can pay much less at a cheaper institution. And you can make over 100k easily in other professions that do not require 8 years of school.

 

[Cold Front]

Not really. In fact, it's a terrible investment. I went to dental school for free, courtesy of the Navy. Now I'm out. That's the way to do it. Or go to a cheaper school. Why pay 500k when you can pay much less at a cheaper institution. And you can make over 100k easily in other professions that do not require 8 years of school.

Exactly. People also tend to forget that debt doubles at 8% interest rate (although most students have it closer to 7%) every 9 years. So that $500k is closer to $1M by the time you pay it back in 9 years, or $3M for the duration of the 25 years tem... but we all know most new graduates will end up repaying 10-15 years because of the stagnant starting salaries.

 

[onepik]

Exactly. People also tend to forget that debt doubles at 8% interest rate (although most students have it closer to 7%) every 9 years. So that $500k is closer to $1M by the time you pay it back in 9 years, or $3M for the duration of the 25 years tem... but we all know most new graduates will end up repaying 10-15 years because of the stagnant starting salaries.

That's some crazy math. Though that math also works in your favor if you can fetch a favorable investment return

 

[oralcare123]

Assuming you don't get your first (and 2nd mortgage), buy/build that first practice, finance a car, have kids, and save fore retirement all at the same time.

$100-500k income (before tax) may seem a lot, but it doesn't make your debt disappear if you don't spend it responsibly.

None of what you mentioned is a must. Becoming a dentist is not a must either. Plumbing is a very lucrative business

 

[oralcare123]

Exactly. People also tend to forget that debt doubles at 8% interest rate (although most students have it closer to 7%) every 9 years. So that $500k is closer to $1M by the time you pay it back in 9 years, or $3M for the duration of the 25 years tem... but we all know most new graduates will end up repaying 10-15 years because of the stagnant starting salaries.

Is there a lot of strange people, whom it takes 25 years to pay off their student loan?

 

[Incis0r]

None of what you mentioned is a must. Becoming a dentist is not a must either. Plumbing is a very lucrative business

Wait really? How lucrative is plumbing?

 

[Daurang]

Many years ago a plumber charged me $1100 for changing a dripping faucet and dripping showerhead. When my central heater died last week, the HVAC (usually same as plumbing) wanted $550 for an easy half hour job I already diagnosed for him and could have done myself. I said no way.

 

[Hedgy]

Wait really? How lucrative is plumbing?

My nephew is in a 2-year welding program. Guaranteed employment after he finishes. At the local refinery, they start at $43,000/yr. If the Bakken ever makes a comeback, they were making $68,000->$100,000 for high pressure welders. Not a bad way to go. I think diesel mechanics (2 yr program) are doing similarly well.

 

[oralcare123]

Wait really? How lucrative is plumbing?

You could be as successful as a dentist and smells are almost the same