UQ/Ochsner requirements

[feliberti20]

By popular demand here are the mandatory requirements to be completed to be in the UQ/ Ochsner program.

1. Be an American citizen (unless there is a waiver for Canadians or other citizenships I am unaware of)

2. After completion of 1st year complete a 4 week elective rotation in Australia (all other students can do anywhere else in the world)

3. Before 3rd year, complete a 4 week aboriginal health elective during 2nd year. The way it was done for the current 2nd years was at the end of the school year BUT this will be subject to change. What that change will be exactly is a much debated topic.

4. Complete 1 8-week rotation in Australia. Which rotation specifically has been subject to debate and it has been told to us that there will be flexibility in this matter.

It has been mentioned that we will have to take Step 1 before starting year 3 but until we know the exactness of our schedule this is subject to change to.

For future cohorts some of these rules might change to accomodate the number of students and both School of Medicine and Ochsner but the information I have posted is the latest.

USMLE study

The current 2nd years want to provide tutoring for 1st years but there is supposed to be something implemented for us. We will get the First Aid and 2 q-banks with the NBME practice exams. Anything more than that is unsure as of NOW, later that might change also.

In summary

You will spend years 1 and 2 in Australia. Years 3 and 4 in Ochsner except for the 8-week rotation.

It was posted if there was the possibility of completing any rotation outside of Ochsner? This is being negotiated but nothing for certain yet.

As I have posted before, there have been many challenges but this happens with any program where the train tracks are being built in front of the moving train. Some of the program changes where unfortunate and riled up emotions in the student body and many misunderstandings have painted a poor picture of some admin people.

BUT

I like this program. What it stands for and what I will accomplish are things I will be proud of in the end; if I end up with several scars along the way then I will wear them proudly as a badge of honor.

What I care for is being in a good program (which it is), which will train me to become a doctor (in 2 countries nonetheless) and give me a shot to attain a decent residency (in Ochsner, they will give you a fair shot since the have clinically trained you).

Knowing in hindsight what I know now, I would ABSOLUTELY do it again and I recommend anybody to come here to UQ, either as a regular student or as a UQ/Ochsner cohort.

Just in case, I am not paid by the university to post this (neither in money nor beers). I just believe in this program enough to want it to be the success that I envision it to be and hopefully provide New Orleans with the doctors it so desperately needs after Katrina...

Any questions?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[omniatlas]

I like this program. What it stands for and what I will accomplish are things I will be proud of in the end; if I end up with several scars along the way then I will wear them proudly as a badge of honor.

What I care for is being in a good program (which it is), which will train me to become a doctor (in 2 countries nonetheless) and give me a shot to attain a decent residency (in Ochsner, they will give you a fair shot since the have clinically trained you).

I've got a few friends who just came back from Ochsner (OB&GYN rotations) and they only have positive things to say about the clinical training over there.

I completed my OB&GYN over here in Brisbane -- there was a consultant (or is it attending as you call it over there) from New Orleans visiting and also administering our viva exams so it looks like they might have some kind of arrangement going on.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

By popular demand here are the mandatory requirements to be completed to be in the UQ/ Ochsner program.

1. Be an American citizen (unless there is a waiver for Canadians or other citizenships I am unaware of)

2. After completion of 1st year complete a 4 week elective rotation in Australia (all other students can do anywhere else in the world)

3. Before 3rd year, complete a 4 week aboriginal health elective during 2nd year. The way it was done for the current 2nd years was at the end of the school year BUT this will be subject to change. What that change will be exactly is a much debated topic.

4. Complete 1 8-week rotation in Australia. Which rotation specifically has been subject to debate and it has been told to us that there will be flexibility in this matter.

It has been mentioned that we will have to take Step 1 before starting year 3 but until we know the exactness of our schedule this is subject to change to.

For future cohorts some of these rules might change to accomodate the number of students and both School of Medicine and Ochsner but the information I have posted is the latest.

USMLE study

The current 2nd years want to provide tutoring for 1st years but there is supposed to be something implemented for us. We will get the First Aid and 2 q-banks with the NBME practice exams. Anything more than that is unsure as of NOW, later that might change also.

In summary

You will spend years 1 and 2 in Australia. Years 3 and 4 in Ochsner except for the 8-week rotation.

It was posted if there was the possibility of completing any rotation outside of Ochsner? This is being negotiated but nothing for certain yet.

As I have posted before, there have been many challenges but this happens with any program where the train tracks are being built in front of the moving train. Some of the program changes where unfortunate and riled up emotions in the student body and many misunderstandings have painted a poor picture of some admin people.

BUT

I like this program. What it stands for and what I will accomplish are things I will be proud of in the end; if I end up with several scars along the way then I will wear them proudly as a badge of honor.

What I care for is being in a good program (which it is), which will train me to become a doctor (in 2 countries nonetheless) and give me a shot to attain a decent residency (in Ochsner, they will give you a fair shot since the have clinically trained you).

Knowing in hindsight what I know now, I would ABSOLUTELY do it again and I recommend anybody to come here to UQ, either as a regular student or as a UQ/Ochsner cohort.

Just in case, I am not paid by the university to post this (neither in money nor beers). I just believe in this program enough to want it to be the success that I envision it to be and hopefully provide New Orleans with the doctors it so desperately needs after Katrina...

Any questions?

So what is the real story with this program, to me it casts a shadow over Australian higher education. I am of the mindset that Australia needs to run its universities more like those in Britain, quit trying to act like businesses and more like proper institutions of higher learning. British medical schools pretty much do not even take any international students with the exception of students from certain third world countries that lack medical schools. I know there are many American universities who do the exact same thing but UQ is one of the best in Australia. Imagine the reaction if Yale started a program to train doctors for China. I guess higher ed is becoming more of a business these days than anything else.

As far as a doctor shortage because of Katrina, US schools are addressing that problem themselves.

Still glad Sydney is not trying to paste together a program to bring in students. USyd, UMelbourne, and Flinders still have fairly tight admissions standards at least.

 

[omniatlas]

Still glad Sydney is not trying to paste together a program to bring in students. USyd, UMelbourne, and Flinders still have fairly tight admissions standards at least.

Are you trolling again PacificBlue? I've been reading about your posts in the other threads

http://www.amsa.org.au/press-releas...cal-places-defy-bradley-review-recommendation

Melbourne university private medical places defy bradley review recommendation

The Australian Medical Students’ Association (AMSA) is outraged by reports this week that University of Melbourne will be offering 'domestic full fee paying' places in its new medical program.

President of AMSA, Ross Roberts-Thomson said that the University of Melbourne was dodging the Commonwealth Government’s ban on domestic undergraduate full fee-paying places by changing their medical degree to a ‘post-graduate’ course rather than an ‘undergraduate’ course.

“The Australian higher education system has always been based on equity of access. That is, if you are good enough to get in to a university it does not matter whether you are rich or poor, finances should not restrict participation in higher education. This is as true for medicine as it is any other course, and this announcement threatens this principle," said Mr Roberts-Thomson.

"The University of Melbourne's announcement may lead to a lower-standard of student entering medicine at the University of Melbourne," he said.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

Are you trolling again PacificBlue? I've been reading about your posts in the other threads

http://www.amsa.org.au/press-releas...cal-places-defy-bradley-review-recommendation

Melbourne university private medical places defy bradley review recommendation

The Australian Medical Students' Association (AMSA) is outraged by reports this week that University of Melbourne will be offering 'domestic full fee paying' places in its new medical program.

President of AMSA, Ross Roberts-Thomson said that the University of Melbourne was dodging the Commonwealth Government's ban on domestic undergraduate full fee-paying places by changing their medical degree to a ‘post-graduate' course rather than an ‘undergraduate' course.

"The Australian higher education system has always been based on equity of access. That is, if you are good enough to get in to a university it does not matter whether you are rich or poor, finances should not restrict participation in higher education. This is as true for medicine as it is any other course, and this announcement threatens this principle," said Mr Roberts-Thomson.

"The University of Melbourne's announcement may lead to a lower-standard of student entering medicine at the University of Melbourne," he said.

Trolling?? Hardly but I am really wondering why UQ has created this Ochsner program and why have they hired Mededpath to market it to Americans?

Melbourne has not aggressively recruited international students compared to Sydney and UQ. That is one thing I like about them because Australian unis have been using international students as of late as cash cows. I am starting to see it as ridiculous. Especially with the newer and more draconian immigration laws in place. And how many full fee spaces?? Nothing compared to what UQ is putting out. More students and stagnant internship spots mean fewer students will actually have a job come graduation.

Ditto for Flinders, my regard for them is quite high.

I also see the same thing in American higher education as well but not among the elite universities(Harvard, Yale, etc).

As far as the Yale-China idea, who knows? Maybe one of these days you will see a university like Yale do the same in this nonsense we call a "global" economy. Duke has a program in Singapore. But I guess this proves my point that higher education is becoming more of a business with each passing day.

I have to commend universities in the UK for resisting this, and from what I know they charge much lower fees to the internationals who do study there.

 

[omniatlas]

Trolling?? Hardly but I am really wondering why UQ has created this Ochsner program and why have they hired Mededpath to market it to Americans?

That would be something you would want to ask Professor David Willkinson, Head of the School of Medicine over here -- it is his vision to make UQ a 'Global Medical School'.

As far as the Yale-China idea, who knows? Duke has a program in Singapore. But I guess this proves my point that higher education is becoming more of a business which each passing day.

I have to commend universities in the UK for resisting this, and from what I know they charge much lower fees to the internationals who do study there.

How long did it take you to recognize that Higher Education *IS* a business? Where are you getting your figures for Universities in the UK charging less to international students? When I did a cross-comparison of medical schools in the UK vs Australia, I found it MORE expensive going to the UK. All My friends in the UK are paying an arm and leg to attend med school over there and they don't even have job security when they graduate.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

That would be something you would want to ask Professor David Willkinson, Head of the School of Medicine over here -- it is his vision to make UQ a 'Global Medical School'.



How long did it take you to recognize that Higher Education *IS* a business? Where are you getting your figures for Universities in the UK charging less to international students? When I did a cross-comparison of medical schools in the UK vs Australia, I found it MORE expensive going to the UK. All My friends in the UK are paying an arm and leg to attend med school over there and they don't even have job security when they graduate.

I already knew it was a business, but its becoming so to a ridiculous degree. I guess this is what the great West is becoming. I was not knocking UQ, just knocking a general trend I am seeing.

Dr. Robinson also started a whole mantra of making USyd an "international" medical school. The training I received is most relevant to practicing however in Australia. I have to say kudos to Dr. Edwards whose goal is to make Flinders a great medical school training excellent doctors.

Many Americans and Canadians are paying an arm and a leg to attend schools like USyd and UQ with no guarantee of a job either. It is extremely scary to spend $300,000 and have no job guaranteed.

 

[Dean UQ Medicin]

“Hello, Now that the UQ-Ochsner collaboration is fully up and running, and we are accredited, I’ve decided to contribute to this discussion. First up let me say that it has been helpful to me and my colleagues to read many of the comments made in the various UQ-Ochsner blogs. There has been quite a bit of criticism, which is fair enough, and everyone is of course welcome to their opinion. Second, I accept that some of our communication with our students has not been good enough, especially with the first Ochsner cohort, and this has resulted in a loss of trust. I have met with the students a few times recently, and apologised for these errors. We want to do better, and we have started by consulting with students and planning improvements for 2011. Part of the problem has been the uncertainty we have faced while going through the accreditation process. Now that process is finalised, we can plan more confidently for the future.

Key points about the Ochsner cohort’s study plan: The first 2 years of the UQ degree are done in Australia with the rest of the UQ medical students, and the next 2 years are done at Ochsner in New Orleans. In order to meet AMC accreditation standards (which are for practice in Australia, not the USA) Ochsner students must do a total of 16 weeks in the Australian healthcare system. This is made up of 4 weeks as the Year 1 elective, 4 weeks during Year 2, and an 8 week rotation in Year 4. This is the broad proposal that we put to the AMC, and they have accepted it, with some tweaks. The proposal we put forward was based on earlier discussions with the AMC.

Please note that the Ochsner cohort does the same UQ medical degree as everyone else, same curriculum and same exams. Everyone gets the same degree – there is no Ochsner program. So, the AMC accreditation refers to the whole School and medical degree. The AMC was very impressed as you can see in their detailed report when it is made public on their web site.

USMLE study: I think it is fair to say that we have not delivered a USMLE support program as well as we could, this first time around. 2011 will be better and the School is working on this now, and will work closely with the Ochsner cohort reps to make sure that what we develop meets the students’ needs. We know how important USMLE is and we know that the success of this collaboration with Ochsner will be measured in large part by our students’ USMLE scores and how well they match for residencies.

What is our goal here? Simply, we want to build a truly transnational, a global, medical education experience. We want to attract the best students – those that want to spend 2 years with a world class university in Australia, have a great time in Australia and get a really good medical education, and then go back to the US to study in one the leading academic health centres. Accreditation is just the first step.

Is this a business? There is no doubt that Australian higher education is currently reliant on fees paid from international students to support the total cost of university education, and to support the research done (especially in research intensive universities like UQ). As Dean I do have to find new sources of revenue to support the School, and new initiatives are required to have a business plan, and show that they are financially viable. That said, what drives us all in the Ochsner partnership is the challenge of developing a new educational model, and the positive cultural and educational benefits that international partnerships bring.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

Regardless there is no such thing as a "Transnational" Medical school, Australian schools will never get LCME accreditation. The only non US schools that have that privilege are those in Canada.

With the current changes in the US, I would suggest Americans and Canadians look at US Allopathic schools first and then Osteopathic medical schools, the latter have full practice rights in the US. Its becoming much harder for IMGs to match into residencies compared to past years.

 

[zeph]

Regardless there is no such thing as a "Transnational" Medical school, Australian schools will never get LCME accreditation.

How does transnational mean LCME? No one said it does. Prof Wilkinson was referring to the training environments and never said that one meant or lead to the other. It may not be your thing, but the word has nothing to do with what you've decided it does.

There's a pattern I keep seeing. I'll be reading a thread, then Pacficblue comes along and changes the meaning of what someone else said and then uses that as an excuse to expound on where he's decided people should or shouldn't go to med school. WE GET THAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SHOULD DO. Now PLEASE either allow threads to remain topical (this one is about REQUIREMENTS FOR OCHSNER, not your pretentions on whether someone should go international), and GET OFF TOPICS YOU HAVE NOTHING NEW OR TOPICAL TO SAY.

Geez.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

How does transnational mean LCME? No one said it does. Prof Wilkinson was referring to the training environments and never said that one meant or lead to the other. It may not be your thing, but the word has nothing to do with what you've decided it does.

There's a pattern I keep seeing. I'll be reading a thread, then Pacficblue comes along and changes the meaning of what someone else said and then uses that as an excuse to expound on where he's decided people should or shouldn't go to med school. WE GET THAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SHOULD DO. Now PLEASE either allow threads to remain topical (this one is about REQUIREMENTS FOR OCHSNER, not your pretentions on whether someone should go international), and GET OFF TOPICS YOU HAVE NOTHING NEW OR TOPICAL TO SAY.

Geez.

Just about every medical school in a rich English speaking country is "transnational". You are still an IMG at the end of the day, and if you are looking to return to the US/Canada, I can tell you that your journey will be very uphill. More US medical schools and fewer residencies equals fewer jobs for IMGs. The data as far as how Australian graduates do in residency placement is still sparse since small numbers of North Americans go to Oz relative to other foreign schools such as the Caribbean.

Think about it, you are going to be in a massive amount of debt, you want to make sure that you will be able to pay that back, if I was in such a position I would take this into consideration. I think anyone who chooses to go to Australia over a North American medical school and whose goal is to work in the US or Canada is exercising poor judgment. Its another story if you really want to work in Australia, which is also becoming harder.

 

[UQOchsStudent]

Let me start off by saying that I am impressed that Prof. Wilkinson has followed these threads on SDN, let alone posted up on it. To me, that shows an honest interest in us and our program and I am really happy to have that.

Also, I will say that it seems that since the final approval of our accreditation the SoM (specifically Wilkinson but also Jones) has been much more active in getting Ochsner student ideas and opinions about the various aspects of our program. At least this is what I have inferred through the grapevine. Also a step in the right direction.

However, I have some serious questions about the post. Foremost is the assertion that "there is no Ochsner program." I understand that the first two years are identical in curriculum and that the degree conferred is (now thanks to AMC approval) equivalent to any other MBBS obtained by any other member of the school. However, when the tag line of the UQ-Ochsner program is "Practice Medicine in the US" and their mission statement is "the School of Medicine of the University of Queensland, Australia, and Ochsner Health System in New Orleans, Louisiana, have joined to create a unique option for outstanding students leading to the practice of medicine in the U.S." it makes me wonder if this is not just political posturing. When an Australian signs gets accepted and signs up for a spot at UQ SoM (or even a Canadian) do they get a degree that "[leads] to the practice of medicine in the US?" And in a meeting with Jones, Cleghorn, and Pinsky (UQ and Ochsner heads, respectively) it was unequivocally stated by Pinsky (with no dissent from the UQ side) that while the clinical experience requirements in Australia are necessary for AMC approval that the goal and purpose of this program, this partnership between UQ and Ochsner, was to get us back as doctors in the US with the potential option of practice in Australia if that is really what we want to pursue. Now I like that option. I really do. But my goal currently is to practice in the US which is why I signed up for this program (as did many of my classmates). So why am I now being told that "there is no Ochsner program?"

I would also like to tak ethis moment to comment on a very specific whinge we Ochsner students have - something I hope Wilkinson lives up to his promise of fixing. Namely that not one single person amongst us takes ANY issue at ALL about doing our elective in Australia, coming back for a rotation in year 4, or having an additional placement in year 2. In fact, we are all smart enough to realize that having such extra and varied experiences would be really great for our future practice! The problem we have is that we were not told about these requirements until the last possible minute and if we were told in advance we were told the complete opposite of what actually happened. We would have been happy with an "We don't know yet because things aren't yet solid. You MAY have to do X,Y, or Z - we will keep you updated." Instead we got "You will definitely NOT have to do this, though future cohorts will" and silence. And then suddenly "Oh wait, actually you WILL have to do this. Oh, and did we mention that you have an extra placement we never told you about that you will have to do in just 2 months time so go ahead and change all those flights and plans you have made"

We want a collaboration - we want to help and give ideas. And every time we have complained about something, we did so with carefully outlined reasons why and suggestions as to how to fix the problem. Yet we were still treated like children in elementary school and just told how things will be whenever the admin decided it was time.

So once again, why did I sign up for a program that now purportedly does not exist?

 

[Dean UQ Medicin]

Thanks for the responses to my post of a few days ago. It looks like I need to clarify a couple of things, which is fine. When I say that ‘there is no Ochsner program', what I mean is that there is only 1 medical program at UQ, and that leads to 1 medical degree. The word ‘program' at UQ is specific and means the program of study that a student follows, and that leads to the award of a degree. Sorry for not being clear about that. There is no doubt that the aim of the partnership between UQ and Ochsner is to provide a program of medical education that will allow graduates to practice medicine in the US. First up we only accept US citizens and permanent residents into the Ochsner cohort. Second with most of the clinical training done in a high quality clinical setting in the US our view is that graduates will be very well placed to compete for residencies. Of course our graduates will be treated as IMGs in the USA, but our view is that with a good USMLE score, having a medical degree from a university ranked 108 in the world, and having done clinical training at one of the leading health systems in the USA, our graduates will fare very well in the residency match. Of course, time will tell, but I reckon our graduates will do really well. I am currently corresponding with reps from the 2 existing Ochsner cohorts in order to finalise the details about their respective programs of study over the next couple of years.
I don't mind folk telling me I can't do various things and that XYZ will never happen. My while career has been spent changing things for the better, including developing new health programs in Africa, and the Ochsner partnership is one of the projects that I am most proud to be associated with. Many folk said we would not get accredited, and they got that wrong. Thanks for the opportunity to contribute again.

 

[Respondent1]

I am a second year student in the Ochsner program.

I am grateful Dean Wilkinson has joined the discussion and is responding to feedback. It seems like he has been more involved with our student reps since the AMC came through with accreditation. Naturally we think more involvement is a good thing.

I would like to comment on a couple of his points.

-- We understand in the pre-accreditation phase it was hard for UQ to give us guarantees about specific facets of the program. Now that we are post-accreditation that should change.

-- It is obvious from comments on this thread and other threads (see http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=741059&page=3, read the comments from Ochsner students and not the trollers) that a significant percentage of Ochsner students have been dissapointed with our leadership. Dean Wilkinson says that a better job will be done. Hopefully future Ochsner students will benefit from his new resolve.


-- He states in the first paragraph “I have met with the students a few times recently, and apologised for these errors.” In fact the second year Ochsner students have had a total of one meeting with Dean Wilkinson, which was in their 4th semester. Neither the second or first year students have been invited to any other meeting with the Dean. Also, no apologies have been made to the students, neither written or verbal, by any UQ faculty.

Dean Wilkinson has been generous enough to respond to feedback so far, hopefully he will not mind explaining what he meant by this.

-- USMLE prep. I checked with several first year Ochsner students. UQ has not made any communication to them to the effect of prep materials for next year will be different to this year. IE no improvements have been communicated.

Thank you.

 

[UQOchsStudent]

Thank you for explaining the points about the "ochsner program" professor wilkinson. I appreciate hearing that the goals I signed up for are still indeed the goals of teh SoM. One minor point on the topic - as we are required to take the USMLE step 1 and have an additional 4 week rural/aborginal placement, doesn't that make our course of study (or program) indeed different from the rest of the SoM population? Granted these are relatively small in the overall scheme of things, but considering the gravity of the Step 1 and the difficulty in finding time for our placement I certainly feel that we are indeed a distinct population subset within the UQ community. Zeph posted up on the other thread (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10375069&postcount=120) about the changes in the general UQ SoM curriculum and as that stands it makes it rather difficult for us (and especially the current second year students). If we have our placement at the end of 2nd year and take first rotation off then we do not have time for completing an elective rotation in between 3rd and 4th year. If we don't have the rotation off we simply do not have time to be successful in our study for the Step 1. If it is dispersed throughout 2nd year then these problems are mitigated. However, regardless of the way in which is is handled, we are decidedly in a different course of study. One in which we are already handicapped by a number of logistic and practical issues (which simply cannot be changed, and I think we all understand that) in regards to sitting the Step. As such, I personally and I think we all feel that the school should be stepping up to provide us (specifically) with solid USMLE prep support. I know that the current second years only started getting tutoring sessions in June of this year and otherwise only got a copy of First Aid and some Qbanks. The latter of which are great and certainly necessary but especially with the noticeable lack of tutoring sessions woefully inadequate. I know that some of the first year students have been working on proposals for how to help out here (we talked about it during our meetings) and i hope that the school takes this seriously.

My understanding is that we are also required to do ALL of our rotations at Ochsner, save 1 back in Oz - something that would certainly hinder our options for networking in regards to residency. I hope that there becomes on option to do an away elective (assuming we still have one) while in Ochsner.

As for the rotation back in Oz - this is another example of why we are unhappy at the communication. We were never told we would have to come back. I was in New Orleans before signing up and we were told that 1st and 2nd year would be all UQ and 3rd and 4th would be in Ochsner. Someone even asked if we would have to go back to Oz after 2nd year and we were told no. Now at least on this one, we have plenty of time to sort things out. However, it is a logistical and financial nightmare. How can we possibly afford to keep rent on two places? to pay for our flights back and forth? Cost of living is high in Australia and finding a place to stay is tough - especially for just 8 weeks. I had a tough time finding a decent place for a 6 month lease! Where is the money for all of this supposed to come from? We can't get it in the form of loans - we are limited by what the tuition is and estimated cost of living. These costs will be above and beyond that. This is something that needs to be addressed and i can assure you it will weigh heavily on our minds until it does. And with the track record of "surprises" from the SoM I don't think any of us are content to think we can kick back, let the school sort it out, and then have be a pleasant resolution. I'm sorry Prof Wilkinson, but that is where our history and loss of trust puts us. We really need good, open, honest discourse about this problem early and until a definitive resolution is reached.

Lastly I will chime in on the "business" aspect. I don't think anyone here on these threads (besides some trolls who are not ochsner students) particularly minds that we pay more than Aussie students. In fact, in the states, if you go to a university in a different state you pay a HUGE "out-of-state" tuition fee. That is how the education is subsidized and how things work. Personally I totally understand and am all for it. The only big issue is how the current 1st years (now technically 2nd, I suppose) got completely screwed on our tuition - somehow paying an $18,000 "program fee" (for a "program" we just got told here doesn't exist). The fee structure has changed for next year and following and I think we are all happy about that (though I know it was met with a lot of skepticism from the students worried that the school is conniving something behind our backs - yet another symptom of the distrust fostered from the poor communication this past year). That has certainly been a sore spot with us and we have contented ourselves with accepting this "mistake" and moving on. However, I feel it earns us the right to be more collaborative in our financial future with the school - namely a clear, open, definitive, and official communication leading to a contract we are all happy with in regards to covering the costs (and outlining the logistics - i.e. WHICH rotation?) for both the 2nd year placement and the 4th year return rotation. Let me be clear, I am not currently advocating any details of it (i.e. the school should pay everything, etc) - merely that this is an opportunity for the school to be more active and open in its communication with us and rebuild some of the trust that was lost. I hope that opportunity gets taken. We are, for the most part, quite reasonable people.

 

[Dean UQ Medicin]

Thanks again to colleagues who have responded to my last posting. I really do appreciate the feedback. I read what is posted, I think about what is put forward, and I want what we do in the future to be better than it has been to date. I offer – again – my unreserved apology to the first Ochsner cohort for the uncertainty, confusion and poor communication that they have experienced to date.

I am quite happy to meet Ochsner cohort reps, or cohorts as a whole, as frequently as is required. This coming Friday I am meeting with one of the cohort reps, with my medical degree program director, to start the process of detailing how Year 2 will look in 2011. In January I will be in New Orleans, again with the medical degree program director, to meet with the first Ochsner cohort soon after their arrival there. We will be working out how the return to Australia will work in year 4. Both these meetings have been set up with the input of the Ochsner cohort reps over the last couple of weeks.

I met with the first cohort of Ochsner students most recently about a month ago, as soon as we had AMC accreditation officially announced, and also a few weeks prior to that together with other senior colleagues from the School. I repeat my willingness to meet and talk as often as required. How we can improve the USMLE prep program for year 2 in 2011 is on the agenda for this Friday's meeting.

In terms of the UQ ‘program' let me reiterate that all medical students at UQ do the same program, and get the same degree. Yes, the Ochsner cohort has some differences to their study plan. USMLE is not a requirement within the UQ program. Of course it is essential for practice in the USA; we know that and I am sure we will develop better support in 2011. My goal is that we will be recognised as having a first rate USMLE support program.

For UQOchsStudent if you check my posting on the other thread you will see what the truth is about the year 3 and 4 placements. The point about away rotations while based at Ochsner is currently under discussion with cohort reps, and we are willing to look at this in a sympathetic manner, within our accreditation framework. These issues will be resolved in the next month or two, and will be decided in partnership with cohort reps.

Thanks again for the opportunity.

 

[brittb81]

Yea very good that Prof Wilkinson is interacting with us.

I am a 1st year Ochsner student and can verify we have never had a meeting with Prof Wilkinson or received an apology on any matter from any member of uq faculty - except for now on this forum. Additionally we have not had any talks with our advisor (I know as I attend them) where he said that Usmle materials will improve in 2011 ...

 

[nybgrus]

I have been long silent on this forum since I did not have much good to say and did not feel like going on a whinge fest (not to disrespect those that did - it seems to have gotten some attention from Wilkinson which has pleasantly surprised me and prompted my return to this forum).

For the record, I would like to say that I have been personally extremely involved with the Ochsner cohort, having attended every meeting (save the ones since elective, since mine was not in Brisbane), proofreading all the position papers, meeting with the AMC, meeting with all the key members of UQMS on an individual basis, and working extensively on the USMLE aspect of the curriculum. I am also close friends with the official and unofficial reps for Ochsner. There have been a number of people (both supposedly Ochsner and those clearly not) who have been weighing in on these matters, so I wanted to establish that indeed, I am up to speed and experienced in the relevant matters, despite potentially removing the "shield" of anonymity the internet provides.

Having said all this, I would like to open by saying that most of what has been written on these forums has at least of grain of truth behind it. We indeed have had poor communication, a number of unpleasant surprises, and constantly unanswered questions. The second year USMLE support was severely lacking and the placement was sprung upon them in a very unpleasant fashion. MedEdPath continues to make specific claims about the USMLE support that simply are not in place (currently), etc. But enough about that. There is a reason I chose to speak up again.

I am currently out of the country, but I have heard from my friends who are in the know that indeed the SoM and Professor Wilkinson specifically have become much more responsive and open to the Ochsner cohort. I know for a fact that Prof Wilkinson has met with and requested further meetings to flesh out ideas and agendas for all the relevant topics mentioned in these threads. I also know that the school did offer significant support for the current 2nd year placement due to circumstances. I have also personally met with next year's UQMS AVP and had a frank sitdown and discussion with him about working together for the betterment of the Ochsner cohort and the SoM's support of us.

Is this good enough? Does it erase the past? No. But it is most definitely a step in the right direction. And holding grudges does no one any good in life, ever. We have some lost ground to make up in regards to poor communication and lost trust but if things continue like this promising new start (i.e. post-accreditation) then I reckon we will be on decent footing in a year's time. I for one certainly experienced and acutely felt the negatives of this past year and have not been happy about it. But I am also quite willing to take this effort on the part of the SoM and specifically Prof Wilkinson on this forum and see where it leads. It seems that there has been some acknowledgement of these failings and I am not pompous enough to need a written apology for each and every infraction I can think of. As long as these issues are resolved for the future, as long as our needs are reasonably met, as long as the school and UQMS are willing to work with us, and as long as communication stays open, regular, and honest I am happy to put the past where it belongs - in the past.

You've now spoken on a forum of public record on these topics and I commend you for it Professor Wilkinson. I certainly look forward to realizing the goals and commitments set forth and welcoming the incoming 2011 class with the hope that they will not face the same trials and tribulations the first two cohorts have.

 

[zeph]

I am a 1st year Ochsner student and can verify we have never had a meeting with Prof Wilkinson or received an apology on any matter from any member of uq faculty - except for now on this forum. Additionally we have not had any talks with our advisor (I know as I attend them) where he said that Usmle materials will improve in 2011 ...

I think he said first cohort, not first year cohort.

Why does it matter if Prof Jones specifically said that or not? (though I actually heard him say there'll be more support at international evening). Now that we've been accredited either the school will continue to improve its USMLE support or not, but assuming the worse - like thinking no one is listening or mistaking that there won't be electives and that the UQMS goes along with that, or listening to all the anonymous negativity! - isn't going to help at all, it'll just make you go crazy delusional.

I agree with nybgrus about the "grain of truth" here, but damn the whingeing got out of control. Granted there's really no positive spin to the bad communication there's been, but I kind of see what pitelli and others have been saying all along (also at the UQMS forums) about how part of the frustration is our expectations of immediacy (or however he put it) as Americans and not knowing what's going on "behind the scenes" - but hey, maybe the forums will help make improvements ala Americana after all, despite trolls talking crap and others who came here just to whinge!

 

[studentDO]

It's all true, the Ochsner-UQ deal is a lie and a scam. It is a way for UQ to make an extra $50K US per student (read the article in the Australian newspaper) and you will never be fully licensed in the US. I have been there and opted out. They change the program to meet the demand of the AMC, they take your money, they don't give a damn about the students and once you get back to Louisiana you will be there forever and never be able to practice in another state unless the AMA changes the rules.

UQ is a scam, remember Australia is a nation of criminals, descended from the scum that England didn't want and they haven't changed. Anyone entering this program is an idiot who could not even get into a Chiropractic school in the US. The current UQ/Ochsner rep is from Puerto Rico and couldn't even get into a med school in his own country which takes the dregs of the medical society.

You have been warned.

If you can't get into an MD school in the US, go to a DO school if you are that desperate to be a physician, otherwise, apply to UQ directly and get a sub standard medical degree and practice in Australia. The docs there have learned how to work the public health system to screw the gov't out of $$$$$ while following "guidelines" and killing patients without liability.

Best of luck.

I think he said first cohort, not first year cohort.

Why does it matter if Prof Jones specifically said that or not? (though I actually heard him say there'll be more support at international evening). Now that we've been accredited either the school will continue to improve its USMLE support or not, but assuming the worse - like thinking no one is listening or mistaking that there won't be electives and that the UQMS goes along with that, or listening to all the anonymous negativity! - isn't going to help at all, it'll just make you go crazy delusional.

I agree with nybgrus about the "grain of truth" here, but damn the whingeing got out of control. Granted there's really no positive spin to the bad communication there's been, but I kind of see what pitelli and others have been saying all along (also at the UQMS forums) about how part of the frustration is our expectations of immediacy (or however he put it) as Americans and not knowing what's going on "behind the scenes" - but hey, maybe the forums will help make improvements ala Americana after all, despite trolls talking crap and others who came here just to whinge!

 

[pitman]

UQ is a scam, remember Australia is a nation of criminals, descended from the scum that England didn't want and they haven't changed. Anyone entering this program is an idiot who could not even get into a Chiropractic school in the US. The current UQ/Ochsner rep is from Puerto Rico and couldn't even get into a med school in his own country which takes the dregs of the medical society...

The docs there have learned how to work the public health system to screw the gov't out of $$$$$ while following "guidelines" and killing patients without liability.

Such a lovely sentiment.

Care to reference any of those sensational claims (about Ochsner, not about the silly ad hominems or your clear prejudice against Australians)?

 

[pitman]

It's all true, the Ochsner-UQ deal is a lie and a scam... I have been there and opted out.

And weren't you at West Virginia SOM starting 2008?

 

[88845]

It's all true, the Ochsner-UQ deal is a lie and a scam. It is a way for UQ to make an extra $50K US per student (read the article in the Australian newspaper) and you will never be fully licensed in the US. I have been there and opted out. They change the program to meet the demand of the AMC, they take your money, they don't give a damn about the students and once you get back to Louisiana you will be there forever and never be able to practice in another state unless the AMA changes the rules.

UQ is a scam, remember Australia is a nation of criminals, descended from the scum that England didn't want and they haven't changed. Anyone entering this program is an idiot who could not even get into a Chiropractic school in the US. The current UQ/Ochsner rep is from Puerto Rico and couldn't even get into a med school in his own country which takes the dregs of the medical society.

You have been warned.

If you can't get into an MD school in the US, go to a DO school if you are that desperate to be a physician, otherwise, apply to UQ directly and get a sub standard medical degree and practice in Australia. The docs there have learned how to work the public health system to screw the gov't out of $$$$$ while following "guidelines" and killing patients without liability.

Best of luck.

Could you please provide a link to the news article you're referring to?

Additionally, despite your anguished tone I'm interested in further explanation regarding the "stuck in Louisiana" bit.

 

[pitman]

Could you please provide a link to the news article you're referring to?

Additionally, despite your anguished tone I'm interested in further explanation regarding the "stuck in Louisiana" bit.

There is no reason that UQ grads would be stuck, and his reference to the AMA in support of that claim screams ignorance on all registration matters.

At any rate, yes, it would be nice if trolls gave references to back up such xenophobic drivel. But alas, they are trolls.

 

[leorl]

Please remember to post information which has factual basis. While you are entitled to your opinions, to post anything without evidence is libel. The australians have a very good system and standard of healthcare, and there is no reason to think that UQ would be any different.

 

[omniatlas]

UQ is a scam, remember Australia is a nation of criminals, descended from the scum that England didn't want and they haven't changed. Anyone entering this program is an idiot who could not even get into a Chiropractic school in the US. The current UQ/Ochsner rep is from Puerto Rico and couldn't even get into a med school in his own country which takes the dregs of the medical society.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Mordecai]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg[/YOUTUBE]

True True. I happen to be getting quite good reviews at my elective in the US- ....must be that good old Ozzie filth doing the job.

 

[studentDO]

Sorry, it was the Courier Mail that wrote the article.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...would-be-doctors/story-e6freoof-1225884941484

As far as Louisiana is concerned, why don't you try contacting the medical board of California (the standard) and see what they say. I researched it and they clearly state that licensing is preferred for IMG students which have done their rotations in the country that they received their degree from.

Could you please provide a link to the news article you're referring to?

Additionally, despite your anguished tone I'm interested in further explanation regarding the "stuck in Louisiana" bit.

 

[studentDO]

If you are indeed the chief resident, that means that you did your rotations in Australia which is completely accepted in the US. The Ochsner program has no approval for residency except in LA and NY so far. Each state will review you credentials. You should have no problem, but Ochsner grads will face problems according to the AMA based on state licensing. So far the Ochsner grads will only be able to practice in Wyoming, Wisconsin and Georgia. That will change in time I am sure. The US needs all the doctors it can approve - state by state.

Please remember to post information which has factual basis. While you are entitled to your opinions, to post anything without evidence is libel. The australians have a very good system and standard of healthcare, and there is no reason to think that UQ would be any different.

 

[studentDO]

I posted your reference, you can refute the AMA all you want but they are the final authority on this issue. I truly hope you all do well and become good US physicians we could use them DO MD whatever.

There is no reason that UQ grads would be stuck, and his reference to the AMA in support of that claim screams ignorance on all registration matters.

At any rate, yes, it would be nice if trolls gave references to back up such xenophobic drivel. But alas, they are trolls.

 

[studentDO]

Yes, and I am still there. The person you are referring to is a good friend of mine who took the Ochsner option when he could have stayed here. I was excluded due to a late reply and the fact that Med ed fired my rep before my application was complete. I have to admit I applied late so it is partially my fault but better for me in the long run. I am now a third year going to year four and will graduate as a DO and have more authority and residency options than any IMG in every state.

My friend that suffered through your program and witnessed the fact that Aussie medicine is 20 years behind America make me happy that I opted out (i.e. wasn't accepted).

And weren't you at West Virginia SOM starting 2008?

 

[studentDO]

Not a troll, just someone that actually makes phone calls and verifies what people tell them.

P.S. NO - Australia does not have a good standard of health care, they are the Obama of the future. If it is not in the "best practices" guide then the patient dies.

Perhaps that is why their mortality rate is 10 times higher than the US, and the fact that the Australian government restricts the release of malpractice against their physicians.

As far as the education, I am sure that the basics of the medical education are the same world wide, but at least in America (for now) we are allowed to make independent decisions on patient care without the government telling us what they will pay for as they kill patients.

Don't worry, Obama intends to start doing a "cost based analysis" of an individuals life soon, just like Australia and Britain.

It is all about money.

Try working for a living and getting good insurance.

Cheers.

Please remember to post information which has factual basis. While you are entitled to your opinions, to post anything without evidence is libel. The australians have a very good system and standard of healthcare, and there is no reason to think that UQ would be any different.

 

[studentDO]

The fact that you are a "senior member" of this forum with so many posts tells me that you are far more concerned about your reputation and background than you are about truly helping people.

Also, if you are a senior resident, you did all of your rotations in AUS, which means you were exposed to all the physicians that hate the AUS medical system in the first place.

[YOUTUBE]FMEe7JqBgvg[/YOUTUBE]

 

[studentDO]

I am sure you are getting great reviews, the first two years of medical school are pretty much the same all over the world. Even dentists and podiatrists and chiropractors do the same thing in the first two years (chiropractors do not do pharm, just to be clear). Chiropractors in the US are actually better physicians that MD's due to their extensive biomedical and anatomical training which they HAVE TO KNOW to practice.

What really matters is how you behave as a practicing physician. Can you think for yourself and make the decision that is best for your patient?? Or do you follow the guidelines that the government tells you to follow so that everyone is equal?

Think about it and consider doing a residency in IM in the US (provided Obama doesn't screw us). It is your job as a physician, based on your experience to make the decision that is right, not guidelines you received from your government.

True True. I happen to be getting quite good reviews at my elective in the US- ....must be that good old Ozzie filth doing the job.

 

[studentDO]

P.S. I am insulted by the fact that you used the word "his". How dare you assume that all medical students are men. Bitch.

P.P.S. Alll Australians are xenophobic, so the term is moot.

There is no reason that UQ grads would be stuck, and his reference to the AMA in support of that claim screams ignorance on all registration matters.

At any rate, yes, it would be nice if trolls gave references to back up such xenophobic drivel. But alas, they are trolls.

 

[lyndal]

P.S. I am insulted by the fact that you used the word "his". How dare you assume that all medical students are men. Bitch.

P.P.S. Alll Australians are xenophobic, so the term is moot.

The irony of these two statements is just delicious.

As for all the previous statements about the third world nature of that stinking backward hole in the ground that is Australia ... believe what you like mate, there is little value in arguing with you.

If anyone has any REAL interest in the way the health system in Australia REALLY works and the strengths and weaknesses of the system, world rankings of health indices etc let me know and we can discuss.

Cheers
Lyndal

 

[Mordecai]

I am sure you are getting great reviews, the first two years of medical school are pretty much the same all over the world. Even dentists and podiatrists and chiropractors do the same thing in the first two years (chiropractors do not do pharm, just to be clear). Chiropractors in the US are actually better physicians that MD's due to their extensive biomedical and anatomical training which they HAVE TO KNOW to practice.

What really matters is how you behave as a practicing physician. Can you think for yourself and make the decision that is best for your patient?? Or do you follow the guidelines that the government tells you to follow so that everyone is equal?

Think about it and consider doing a residency in IM in the US (provided Obama doesn't screw us). It is your job as a physician, based on your experience to make the decision that is right, not guidelines you received from your government.

Perhaps I can share whatever good has come from my experience in the US. I am doing my final year elective in a major US teaching hospital in a major US city. I am compared and graded to final year med students from the US from at least 4 local programs. So far all the Ozzies that have been here have held their own, and I am proud to say that I am continuing in that tradition.
I will point out however, that there are obvious areas like ICU and critical care where I have found that alot of the US students have had more exposure than myself. I did also find however, that I have been able to catch up with some diligent work.
I have also found that I have been better and managing patient encounters and physical exams than they have- only in the burns unit have I found that the local students were more advanced in hands-on work than me.

Having said all of that, my respect for the staff and students that I have encountered here is immense, and I would not agree with people who knock the standard of the US doctor (basing this on what I have seen). It is likely to be hard to get into a residency when you are an outside unknown.. particularly the hard to get ones in surgery.... but having said that- I have seen plenty of foreign residents at the hospital I am at.

On a final note- it never ceases to amaze me, the breadth and width of humanity ..ethnicity, race, culture etc I have encountered who are Americans. The staff and students at this hospital really are from all over the globe... I am talking about the AMERICANS. In my service are literally representatives of almost every people group you can imagine. Who knows what their grandparents and ancestors were? Who cares? They are what they are now- proud Americans in a distinguished field.
The writer known as "Student DO", could not judge Australians in a similar manner. I have serious doubts that someone who cannot see past ethnicity or the horrible circumstances some Australian migrants found themselves in, must surely also harbor similar horrible beliefs about fellow Americans. This kind of attitude, one that negates the fact that each individual should be treated and judged as they present themselves bodes poorly for a physician.
Banned though Student DO may be from this forum- I fear for the public, that someone with such deep seated prejudices, hopes to serve as a doctor.

For the record, I am a conservative deeply religious individual, who prefers private health care and doesn't particularly like the current US government. All these positions that "DO" claimed- yet I could not disagree any more, and am happy to see a Ban in place.

 

[omniatlas]

I don't check the thread for a few days and it looks like StudentDO trolled more than he could chew.



Perhaps we could get back to the topic at hand. I am not a 'senior resident' as StudentDO has mentioned, but an resident intern at a hospital in Queensland.

If anyone has any questions about the transition from medical school to a job, or about UQ in general, please shoot me a message and I'll get back to you.

 

[redemption2012]

on a different note, does the oschner program accept Canadians? it seems to me like it's very similar to a carribean school where you complete preclinicals abroad and do rotations in the US. Would anyone give their advice as to which one is better in terms of being able to return to US for residency?

 

[marble30]

on a different note, does the oschner program accept Canadians? it seems to me like it's very similar to a carribean school where you complete preclinicals abroad and do rotations in the US. Would anyone give their advice as to which one is better in terms of being able to return to US for residency?

The last time I checked, Ochsner was limited to Americans only.

 

[greatmed123]

This program looks fantastic.

I am applying soon!!

MCAT: 29
GPA. 3.4

fingers crossed!

 

[nybgrus]

Hello all, as you can see it has been a long time since my last post and indeed this is the first time I have checked back since then. I did not realize that the trollery had been so strong. I do not have the time nor desire for a hugely long post but I would like to set a few things straight. I will begin by saying that I am now the head of USMLE prep and education for the Ochsner cohort and have regular meetings with faculty here in that capacity. Which takes me straight to the first point:

1. Communication, implementation, concern, and aide for us as Ochsner cohort has vastly improved and we are all very happy with how things are going. There is always room for improvement, no matter how good you are, but I can happily say that the SoM has stepped up in a big way.

2. I have personally pored over the California medical licensing rules and there is absolutely nothing in place to keep us from practicing there. There IS a stipulation that we will have to obtain a PTAL in order to do RESIDENCY in CA, but we handily meet all the requirements for that and as such it is (at this point) just a matter of some paper and leg work to get it done. In the future, even that may not be an issue.

3. This program is, at the moment, quite novel and distinct from the Carribbean paradigm. My goal (and ours as a cohort and school) is to continue that differentiation. I've said it before - there is an associated stigma with the Caribbean schools since that paradigm is KNOWN to the residency directors and the have a stereotype of what that means. There is no such thing for this program, and we are all (from the students to the dean) working to ensure that the first impression is leaps and bounds above. From my own personal experience, every muckety-muck physician I have encountered has been keenly interested by the program and likes what I have had to say about it. I am not alone in this experience.

4. Anyone who says that chiropractors have as much knowledge as an MD and equates them clearly has no idea what he is talking about.

5. The courier article is old news and rather mundane. The fact that Mr. Troll is blown away by the idea that foreign (read: out-of-state) tuition is used to subsidize domestic costs is clearly a neophyte and further evidence of ignorance. The exact same paradigm is in place in the US. When I went to UCI for undergrad, I paid ~$1800 per quarter as a CA resident. My out of state friends paid ~$14,000 for the same quarter. 'Nuff said.

6. There is NOTHING barring us from practicing in the US. There are SOME hurdles from residency in certain states, but from my own research, nothing that isn't easily overcome. Besides my own research showing that, do you really think that UQ and Ochsner would spend literally 10s of MILLIONS of dollars in a partnership that is destined to fail? You don't think they would have done their homework on that one? Ochsner is a top ranked clinical and research hospital - do you really think they would undercut themselves that way? After just a few cohorts attempt to gain residency, the program would be completely dead in the water if that assertion were true. Fear mongering is the last resort of the ignorant and incapable.

In short, yes, there have been pitfalls and shortcomings, but those are being quite well addressed. I also have confidence (which I honestly lacked at the end of last year) that this program will do extremely well and provide us with a degree to be proud of. I can say this based upon the reputations of the entities involved, but I REALLY say this based upon the amazing work and dedication to success that these first 3 cohorts are showing.

 

[88845]

nybgrus,

Thank you for the update of your current experience there! I believe a LOT of misinformation has been passed along here on SDN and I'm relieved that most of it has been shot down.

I have a few questions regarding application:

1. What is the general timeline to apply? When does the application cycle begin?
2. What MCAT score would be considered competitive?
3. How many US citizens are accepted per class year?

 

[nybgrus]

nybgrus,

Thank you for the update of your current experience there! I believe a LOT of misinformation has been passed along here on SDN and I'm relieved that most of it has been shot down.

I have a few questions regarding application:

1. What is the general timeline to apply? When does the application cycle begin?
2. What MCAT score would be considered competitive?
3. How many US citizens are accepted per class year?

Yes, much misinformation and much overblowing of problems. There are still hurdles, but hey, where aren't there? You would be seriously impressed seeing how the cohort is working together and getting things done and how the faculty has been responding to and supporting us. It ain't easy, but we wouldn't be in med school if we were looking for easy.

As for your questions:

1. Anytime after the app opens (which I believe is in feb/march). The program is still pretty new and the faculty here is looking to expand it so there really isn't competition for spots. If you meet the requirements, you will most likely be offered a spot. However, I can assure you that the desire to fill spots has not made them accept less qualified candidates - sadly, an acquaintance of mine who would have been in my class also applied and was rejected. I do not know his exact MCAT score, but I know it was not very good. However, I take that as clear evidence that the SoM is holding standards and not just selling out spots.

2. I believe that the SoM states the minimum MCAT score accepted as a 28 or 29. There is no interview at UQ (for anyone, not just us) so the rest of the app (including your personal statement) is important as well. I reckon that a higher score can mitigate an otherwise less impressive app, but I think that if you have a 30 or higher and can write cogently and reasonably as to why you are interested in this program you should be offered a spot. In the future, as this program (hopefully) becomes more attractive and we have a few cohorts with Step 1 scores and residency matches to (hopefully) gloat about, that may change and it will likely become more and more competitive.

3. In my cohort there were 35 accepted, in the current 1st year cohort there are 36, and for both years I believe the quota was set at 40. For the next cohort I believe the current goal is to open that up to 80.

And that is also a point that I neglected to address - you must either be a US Citizen or permanent resident to gain entry to this program.

 

[nybgrus]

This program looks fantastic.

I am applying soon!!

MCAT: 29
GPA. 3.4

fingers crossed!

I think you are likely in good standing. I'm not sure exactly what the cutoffs are, but I think you are likely above them. If you do get in and accept the spot, make sure and PM me. We here are working to help prospective students as best we can, and now that we have our first cohort in New Orleans we are trying to to expand our capacity to do so. Pass that along to anyone else you think may need it.

 

[studentDO]

3. This program is, at the moment, quite novel and distinct from the Carribbean paradigm. My goal (and ours as a cohort and school) is to continue that differentiation. I've said it before - there is an associated stigma with the Caribbean schools since that paradigm is KNOWN to the residency directors and the have a stereotype of what that means. There is no such thing for this program, and we are all (from the students to the dean) working to ensure that the first impression is leaps and bounds above. From my own personal experience, every muckety-muck physician I have encountered has been keenly interested by the program and likes what I have had to say about it. I am not alone in this experience.

4. Anyone who says that chiropractors have as much knowledge as an MD and equates them clearly has no idea what he is talking about.


6. There is NOTHING barring us from practicing in the US. There are SOME hurdles from residency in certain states, but from my own research, nothing that isn't easily overcome. Besides my own research showing that, do you really think that UQ and Ochsner would spend literally 10s of MILLIONS of dollars in a partnership that is destined to fail? You don't think they would have done their homework on that one? Ochsner is a top ranked clinical and research hospital - do you really think they would undercut themselves that way? After just a few cohorts attempt to gain residency, the program would be completely dead in the water if that assertion were true. Fear mongering is the last resort of the ignorant and incapable.

In short, yes, there have been pitfalls and shortcomings, but those are being quite well addressed. I also have confidence (which I honestly lacked at the end of last year) that this program will do extremely well and provide us with a degree to be proud of. I can say this based upon the reputations of the entities involved, but I REALLY say this based upon the amazing work and dedication to success that these first 3 cohorts are showing.

#3 answer - strange that your rep actually had so many complaints about the program that he insisted that it was more LIKE the Caribbean programs due to the fact that UQ had no idea that there were doctors overseas (self centered bastards). (Go ahead Ross, deny it - God is watching).

#4 answer - Look at any Chiro school syllabus and you will find they know 10X what you do about anatomy physiology and chemistry - look before you speak future dentist ....

#6 answer - The pitfalls have not even been encountered yet, nobody has ever graduated from this program.

Like Ronald Reagan said (modified) - our Australian friends are not ignorant, it is just that they know so much that isn't true.

Shame none of you could get into an American school .... UQ is ALL about money, I have this on good faith from hospital personnel that get screwed every day by the Aussie medical system. Why don't you ask them instead of dreaming and wishing.

If you were an American then you would have gone to an American school. If you were good enough you would have been accepted to 5 American medical schools like I was. Nice to have choices!!!

P.S. Did you ever ask yourself the ultimate question??? Why is it if the head of school and the Dean are so good that they have NEVER practiced medicine??? Prove me wrong.

 

[omniatlas]

#4 answer - Look at any Chiro school syllabus and you will find they know 10X what you do about anatomy physiology and chemistry - look before you speak future dentist ....

Lol!

Shame none of you could get into an American school .... UQ is ALL about money, I have this on good faith from hospital personnel that get screwed every day by the Aussie medical system. Why don't you ask them instead of dreaming and wishing.

If you were an American then you would have gone to an American school. If you were good enough you would have been accepted to 5 American medical schools like I was. Nice to have choices!!!

Don't you have better things to do like troll the osteopathic forums, lol. Your arrogance and ignorance speaks plentiful about your character; if this is type of doctors osteopathic medicine is churning out, I would most certainly say a prayer for their patients. Most likely this character isn't representative of all DOs and is probably an outlier.

Out of curiosity, why are you even on the international forums, and why so much hate? And weren't you previously banned?

 

[pitman]

Like Ronald Reagan said (modified) - our Australian friends are not ignorant, it is just that they know so much that isn't true.

If you were an American then you would have gone to an American school. If you were good enough you would have been accepted to 5 American medical schools like I was. Nice to have choices!!!

You are the only one being ignorant here. I am but one of many many Americans who came to Australia out of choice. Think about why, and you may learn a thing or two about people different than yourself.

P.S. Did you ever ask yourself the ultimate question??? Why is it if the head of school and the Dean are so good that they have NEVER practiced medicine??? Prove me wrong.

Um. Wilko (both Head and Dean, since the term is the same here) was a primary physician. He also spent a decade in Africa treating TB. Or do you mean the Deputy Head? Cleghorn is a paediatric gastroenterologist at RBH. It's really really ridiculously easy to find these things out if you had an inkling, but it would appear you'd rather make things up from far far away.

You have lost credibility in a single post. Oh wait, you lost credibility long before the last time your were banned. Congratulations.

 

[nybgrus]

#3 answer - strange that your rep actually had so many complaints about the program that he insisted that it was more LIKE the Caribbean programs due to the fact that UQ had no idea that there were doctors overseas (self centered bastards). (Go ahead Ross, deny it - God is watching).

#4 answer - Look at any Chiro school syllabus and you will find they know 10X what you do about anatomy physiology and chemistry - look before you speak future dentist ....

#6 answer - The pitfalls have not even been encountered yet, nobody has ever graduated from this program.

Like Ronald Reagan said (modified) - our Australian friends are not ignorant, it is just that they know so much that isn't true.

Shame none of you could get into an American school .... UQ is ALL about money, I have this on good faith from hospital personnel that get screwed every day by the Aussie medical system. Why don't you ask them instead of dreaming and wishing.

If you were an American then you would have gone to an American school. If you were good enough you would have been accepted to 5 American medical schools like I was. Nice to have choices!!!

P.S. Did you ever ask yourself the ultimate question??? Why is it if the head of school and the Dean are so good that they have NEVER practiced medicine??? Prove me wrong.

I suggest you do something better than trolling forums. It really is a waste of time. Both yours and mine. Without even beginning to address the factuality of your statements, your tone, demeanor, and purpose already demonstrate you to be a very base human being and someone absolutely unfit to be a physician of any kind.

As for the factuality... well, that further seals the deal. I can assure everyone on this forum that this poster is NOT currently in the Ochsner cohort. If my suspicions are correct he was for a brief time and then jumped ship. Rather than try and fix the problems we encountered, he was a coward and ran and now is compounding the destruction of his character by lashing out in a misguided vendetta. But regardless of the etiology of StudentDOs rage it is there and plain to see. Pitman has discredited a couple of your points. I'll now jump on the rest:

I personally had a 38 on my MCAT and graduated with 2 degrees, with honors, 3 years of clinical experience in emergency medicine, and a year of post-grad research under my belt. And I still came here. Don't be so dense as to think that the only reason someone would come here is the only reason your provincial outlook can generate.

We both had significant issues with the program. However, he never said it was like a Caribbean school - merely that we needed to make sure it did not become like one, especially in the eyes of residency directors. The fact that he is still with us, and currently heading education goals in New Orleans at the moment, speaks to the fact that we feel like we are making significant enough headway to stay around and be very active. Once again, need I point out how you have done <i>nothing</i> except whine like a child?

Ad hominem is the last resort of the feeble minded and those without an argument. Calling me a dentist? Even moreso, what is wrong with being a dentist? I will once again stress that you are lost beyond hope if you think that chiropractors are anything more than aping science based practice. Do they learn anatomy and some physiology? Sure. Chemistry? What are you smoking? Oh yeah, and ever heard of the subluxation theory of disease? Yeah, that's what they learn. And what they base their practice on. Something which has been thoroughly discredited, has no basis in reality, and no mechanism. Not sure why you are standing up for chiros but I suggest you find a different pony to ride.

And as for the pitfalls. Yes, you are correct that no one has graduated from the program yet. So you could be correct to say that it is impossible to gauge how well we will do in matching. But to assert that there will be pitfalls in <i>eligibility</i> for residency and medical licensure - well, all that requires is reading the laws put out by the medical boards. Which I can pretty safely assume you haven't done. Well, I have. In detail. And cross referenced them. And looked at precedent. And wanted to poke my eyes out because medical legalese is so utterly mind numbing. But, unlike you, I actually did it. And no, there is nothing in the laws or licensure or practice or residency requirements that would prevent us from doing what we like. At the moment, there is the likelihood of a couple extra forms to fill out, a few extra official transcripts to be sent, and some extra cash to spend for those. But that is it. UQ grads are currently practicing in the states, are currently in residency in the states, and are currently licensed.

This is the last that I will address you. You can't even get simply verifiable facts correct and then brazenly say "prove me wrong." You are the worst kind of shyster - the one who Gish Gallops his way to self gratification. If you choose to respond to this in your usual manner I will advocate for your banning, again.

To all the prospective UQ-Ochsner students: I know this is a forum to get information and it can be tough when you have trolls with a vendetta in your way. I am open to answer any questions you may have, truthfully and honestly, to the best of my ability. As head of education for the Ochsner cohort and someone who meets with Dr. Jenny Schafer and Prof Wilkinson regularly, I hope you trust that I have maybe a touch more insight into this program than our resident troll. Send me a PM any time, and I can arrange to have a skype with me or another student here (or in New Orleans) or we can just email if you have questions.

Best wishes.

 

[feliberti20]

To all the prospective UQ-Ochsner students: I know this is a forum to get information and it can be tough when you have trolls with a vendetta in your way. I am open to answer any questions you may have, truthfully and honestly, to the best of my ability. As head of education for the Ochsner cohort and someone who meets with Dr. Jenny Schafer and Prof Wilkinson regularly, I hope you trust that I have maybe a touch more insight into this program than our resident troll. Send me a PM any time, and I can arrange to have a skype with me or another student here (or in New Orleans) or we can just email if you have questions.

I am just going to echo the sentiment that my fellow classmate says here. If you want OFFICIAL information of what it is to be in our program (ie details, the progress made so far, the overly positive sentiment in our cohort that things are moving along in the right direction, etc...) Then send US a message. He is the Academic Officer for our program in Brisbane and I am head of our cohort here in Brisbane. It does not get anymore official then the 2 of us when it comes to getting down to the minutiae of our program.

Any questions?

We will try and answer them for you