University of Florida c/o 2012

[wally47]

Wow Wally- I didn't expect this sort of response from you. I don't think SoFlaKnight and I are preaching any sort of gospel, and we are not condoning the Dean's action. No. We are simply saying that the student is not the only one who has been accepted without taking the MCAT or filled an AMCAS. I know you see it differently, but this allows me to be more accepting of him because he isn't the only one who has skipped the traditional hurdles of the pre-med track.

The JHP is different but the fact they don't have to jump through some of our hoops should make you angry that such a program even exists at all. I really don't know what to think of it because such a program seems to be popular with many medical schools. The Dean accepted a guy with creds that are probably similar to many other students from the JHP. I'm not saying it's right, but atleast it clears up some obfuscating assertions that this is purely a politically corrupt decision. It makes the case less insane because others, like Ben, are taking your spot as well.

I spoke with Ben for a little more than 5 minutes. The Friday night reception was nearly 3 hours and the next day was about the same. Many of us were surprised he showed up- but I think it showed maturity and even some bravery to disregard the pre-med b.s. and get a move on with his life. I'm not going to hold this against him, because like I said, he's not the only guy going in without facing what I went through.

I don't know about the whole racism analogy... but I understand your frustration.

I guess at this point in the game I am simply looking forward to starting at my school. I understand that you, and possibly many others, feel cheated out of an opportunity. It is unfortunate. But I will be attending UF COM in about 106 days- and I apologize if I am excited and eager to make friendships with my classmates, regardless of how they made it next to me...

That is also why I started this thread in the Allopathic Class thread forum. It is intended for those who have been accepted and will be joining this Allopathic Class at UF. Your frustration is understood, but this thread is going to be naturally pro-UF.

If you are offerred an opportunity to start at UF COM, and decide to come, I'll buy you, SoFlaKnight and Ben a beer and we'll all bury the hatchet

Why are you surprised? I am flattered though.
I don't think you understand the details... to relate him to the JHP kids is irrelevant. The gainesville sun said that he was accepted regular admission. I almost bet my life that no one was accepted for regular admission without said prereqs except for him. The JHP kids aren't really taking my spot... they just jumped through hoops in high school, were I jumped through them in college.

I know I should grow up and stop being bitter. I am trying to shrug it off. If I go to UF I won't be able to help using it as a motivation from time to time though. I guess it's the athlete in me.

The analogy is meant to prove the point that you will never understand MY frustration, I should have explained it better though. Most of my frustration stems from the fact that I am pro-UF as well.

As far as the beers... you bet... I'll even bring the hatchet

---

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[littlealex]

I don't think UFMed understands the JHP BS/MD program guidelines at all... To compare Ben to the JHP students is a slander against the JHP kids.

Hell, BenM applied to the JHP program and was rejected. And the JHP kids submitted their application, albeit sans MCAT. Ben didn't submit his.

I'm sorry but I just don't see how any UF students can be okay with shenanigans like this that definitely does not help the school's reputation. The dean should be asked to leave, and your friend Ben did not earn his spot sitting by you in lecture.

 

[UFMed]

I don't think UFMed understands the JHP BS/MD program guidelines at all... To compare Ben to the JHP students is a slander against the JHP kids.

Hell, BenM applied to the JHP program and was rejected. And the JHP kids submitted their application, albeit sans MCAT. Ben didn't submit his.

I'm sorry but I just don't see how any UF students can be okay with shenanigans like this that definitely does not help the school's reputation. The dean should be asked to leave, and your friend Ben did not earn his spot sitting by you in lecture.

I do understand the JHP little tiny alex. My point was that I am now more accepting of this future classmate of mine (after meeting him, and after learning he isn't the only one on board without taking the exam). I am not saying I accept what happened, or that I condone it (are you even reading my posts?). But that I am not going to protest this beyond an unanimous forum.
The general attitude has been to attack Ben because he didn't take the MCAT. You can't blame hiim for being accepted (the blame rests on the Dean there). I am simply saying I will not pass judgment on this guy because I don't know his entire situation- and so it is not in my right. I also can not pass judgment on my future classmates who have been accepted via JHP. (Bingo! Even though I may not agree with how someone got in I shouldn't slander/defame/antagonize that person).
And please, I am not slandering the JHP- for all you know I was admitted via JHP. I happen to agree with the JHP because I think medical education in our country takes too long as it is. Save the rhetoric.

 

[wally47]

UFmed: you say "No MCAT" like it is the only thing he did... or should I say didn't do. No MCAT is one of many things that his application lacked. You seem to be stuck on it though. Step back and view everything and then you may begin to realize how much of a travesty this kid getting in really is. To stop protesting this event just because you met the kid... sounds to me like you are already giving up on insuring that your school continues to strive for integrity and success. Don't be a sheep and assume that just because Kone has the word Dean before his name that everything he says must be true and that his actions should never be questioned. I try hard not to pass judgement but applying in Feb/No MCAT/No undergrad degree/No secondary....are you kidding me? You talked to the kid, does he even want to go to med school? Like you said UFmed we don't know his whole application. Maybe he was saving babies in Africa this whole time and that's why he's missing all that stuff. By the way... I have the information that allows me to say that this kid doesn't deserve to be there it's called being DENIED by the adcom. Therefore, no matter how stupendous the rest of this kid's app is the adcom thought that he is unfit to attend UFmed. That's all I need.

What we do know is that rules that have been set forth by the admissions committee of UF and followed for who knows how long have been broken. Not even bent, completely broken by Kone.


I will try not to talk about this again, unless in the "buying your way into med school" thread.

 

[UFMed]

UFmed: you say "No MCAT" like it is the only thing he did... or should I say didn't do. No MCAT is one of many things that his application lacked. You seem to be stuck on it though. Step back and view everything and then you may begin to realize how much of a travesty this kid getting in really is. To stop protesting this event just because you met the kid... sounds to me like you are already giving up on insuring that your school continues to strive for integrity and success. Don't be a sheep and assume that just because Kone has the word Dean before his name that everything he says must be true and that his actions should never be questioned. I try hard not to pass judgement but applying in Feb/No MCAT/No undergrad degree/No secondary....are you kidding me? You talked to the kid, does he even want to go to med school? Like you said UFmed we don't know his whole application. Maybe he was saving babies in Africa this whole time and that's why he's missing all that stuff. By the way... I have the information that allows me to say that this kid doesn't deserve to be there it's called being DENIED by the adcom. Therefore, no matter how stupendous the rest of this kid's app is the adcom thought that he is unfit to attend UFmed. That's all I need.

What we do know is that rules that have been set forth by the admissions committee of UF and followed for who knows how long have been broken. Not even bent, completely broken by Kone.


I will try not to talk about this again, unless in the "buying your way into med school" thread.

Jesus brother- I already said I don't agree with what Dean Kone did. What more would you like me to do? Say UF should be turned to salt? Would you prefer I burn my acceptance and curse a future classmate?

I've emphasized the MCAT req because a lot of people have posted "OMG he didn't even take the MCAT?!? LOL!! LOL!!" and genius posts like that. My argument to them is that taking the MCAT is of no real concern since others will matriculate without it.

My other point is that I will not stoop down to attack Ben. Sure, he got in because the dean unethically overturned the adcom's decision (which I have pointed out too many times as a way to defend the institution (not the dean !!!) which I have pleaded should be the focus of criticism (not U of F). I'm not bitter enough to harvest hatred for this kid. The only thing I know about Ben is that he was a really nice guy- and I prefer him over a disgruntled gunner.

Are you & others criticizing and exaggerating my opinions as a way of venting frustration over your own failures to be admitted?

 

[UFMed]

X

 

[wally47]

Jesus brother- I already said I don't agree with what Dean Kone said. What more would you like me to do? Say UF should be turned to salt? Would you prefer I burn my acceptance and curse a future classmate?

I've emphasized the MCAT req because a lot of people have posted "OMG he didn't even take the MCAT?!? LOL!! LOL!!" and genius posts like that. My argument to them is that taking the MCAT is of no real concern since others will matriculate without it.

My other point is that I will not stoop down to attack Ben. Sure, he got in because the dean unethically overturned the adcom's decision (which I have pointed out too many times as a way to defend the institution (not the dean !!!) which I have pleaded should be the focus of criticism (not U of F). I'm not bitter enough to harvest hatred for this kid. The only thing I know about Ben is that he was a really nice guy- and I prefer him over a disgruntled gunner.

If you got into UF you'd see my point. But instead you & others love to criticize me and exaggerate my opinions as a way of venting frustration over your own rejections.
Grow up.

Speaking of growing up, if your gonna get personal at least get the facts right.

 

[axlaxl1]

X

But that's the point UF med. We all got waitlisted. Wally wants to go to UF because of many reasons. However, nothing will take away the fact UF, NOT JUST KONE, made an egregious error in their decision making.

IMO I think the kid should be looked down upon. What kind of scientist/physician are you? I am not saying that to be a smart *** but rather I am emphasizing MEDICINE is the one of the FEW careers that hold an important intangible of smarts, will, drive, dedication, ETHICS, intellect, bed side manner, creativity, empathy, compassion to teach, compassion to life, ETC.

Why the hell does UF take so many students without MCATS? Now the JH honors program is one thing. But the Ben situation is a WHOLE other situation. HIS MEDICAL ACCEPTANCE WAS PURCHASED. And for a republican that is stripping funding from pubic schools and medical programs faster than the POLAR ICE caps are melting.

I mean that is a whole other issue. UF can't buy a new study center or update any o their facilities but give a donation to Crist and BAMMMM the medical school loses all scruples.

Now, the catch 22 is this. You did accepted and perhaps you didn't get accepted to any other school, I don't know, and you feel a real loyalty to your school. As you should. However, the Ben situation is horrible and just puts a bad reputation to UF.

Now, what they did to me was even more disgusting than accepting Ben but me selling sour grapes won't make you create a great wine. Not for me anyway, LOL.

Be easy.

 

[manok31]

I completely agree with UFMed about being pumped for this upcoming semester after 2nd Look. The school is tweaking the curriculum to meet the concerns of the students (gained from one-on-one feedback from previous classes actually sitting down with administrators and professors) and created a very relaxing atmosphere to welcome the incoming class. I got the feeling that everyone was extremely comfortable with one another and we have the makings for an extraordinary class. Even the M1's and M2's, whom we met at a social afterwards, were eager to divulge information (mostly positive and some negative) about the school and Gainesville to aid us in our transition to the next step.

Expounding on BenFest '08 I just wanted to say that he was honestly one of the most enjoyable individuals that I had the pleasure of meeting there and look forward to him joining our class. The only thing I can say about UF is that I keep enjoying it more and more after each visit up there. Go Gators!

Today I realized that tomorrow is May 1st, which means I have to make a HUGE decision in 15 days. I missed the Saturday program of UF's Second Look, so now I really feel like I missed out. [Btw, I really enjoyed meeting everyone at the reception on Friday evening!] To anyone that attended both days of Second Look and for any current UF med students, I have a flood of questions.

What are the professors like? Are they approachable/helpful, or are some of them mostly preoccupied with their research?

Are lectures recorded (video or just audio)?

Do you feel that people in your class are extremely competitive? [One of my biggest concerns is the pressure/intensity of the people in the class. I know that med school is intense no matter where you go, but are the people cut throat?]

How have your experiences been with all your tests on 1 day?

Is UF strong in any particular specialty? [I'm not really sure what I want to specialize in yet, but I want to be able to explore a lot of options during med school.]

What was your preceptorship like? Besides the student-run clinic for the underserved, are there other opportunities for clinical exposure/experience? Do you even have time to pursue those opportunities in your 1st 2 years?

What made you choose UF?


For any 3rd or 4th year med students:

How were your experiences with rotations in Jacksonville? Can you tell me a little about housing and the environment?

How do the teaching faculty on rotations treat you?

Any advice concerning this decision or living in Gainesville would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[axlaxl1]

...
How do the teaching faculty on rotations treat you?

Any advice concerning this decision or living in Gainesville would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

So, just to ask what other school are you looking at?

 

[UFMed]

Speaking of growing up, if your gonna get personal at least get the facts right.

You know what I meant.

 

[SwampGator]

Jesus brother- I already said I don't agree with what Dean Kone did. What more would you like me to do? Say UF should be turned to salt? Would you prefer I burn my acceptance and curse a future classmate?

I've emphasized the MCAT req because a lot of people have posted "OMG he didn't even take the MCAT?!? LOL!! LOL!!" and genius posts like that. My argument to them is that taking the MCAT is of no real concern since others will matriculate without it.

My other point is that I will not stoop down to attack Ben. Sure, he got in because the dean unethically overturned the adcom's decision (which I have pointed out too many times as a way to defend the institution (not the dean !!!) which I have pleaded should be the focus of criticism (not U of F). I'm not bitter enough to harvest hatred for this kid. The only thing I know about Ben is that he was a really nice guy- and I prefer him over a disgruntled gunner.

Are you & others criticizing and exaggerating my opinions as a way of venting frustration over your own failures to be admitted?

I missed this whole scuffle yesterday, but this last statement is pretty weak, definitely below the belt.

Here's what it boils down to for me. The dean says his hands are tied because of privacy reasons, fine. Ben's not bound to keep his own privacy. If I was getting all this flack about being accepted, and I truly was exceptional, I would do an interview with a paper, and let everyone know how truly exceptional I was. Don't hold your breath on this, though.

 

[UFMed]

I missed this whole scuffle yesterday, but this last statement is pretty weak, definitely below the belt.

Here's what it boils down to for me. The dean says his hands are tied because of privacy reasons, fine. Ben's not bound to keep his own privacy. If I was getting all this flack about being accepted, and I truly was exceptional, I would do an interview with a paper, and let everyone know how truly exceptional I was. Don't hold your breath on this, though.

Under the belt?

It begins to become annoying when everyone jumps on me simply because I am adhering to a more diplomatic stance in regards to the institution's reputation. I had already stated here and elsewhere that I do not agree with the Dean's decision, but that doesn't imply I am going to jump on the bandwagon and attack UFCOM, faculty or students. Being the only person who is attempting to save UF's face is difficult (you should refer to the other thread dedicated to this debacle). And because no one else has risen in defense of the ADCOM, that tried to do the right thing, I think other posters have used me as the only target on SDN available. My point with that question was to show that most of the people who are asking me to "open my eyes" and "eschew ethics" (and what not) have not read my posts for content but have instead exagerrated my opinions & loyalty as a means of venting their own frustration. People are looking for someone to rip on here and I am one of few who 1) will DEFINITELY be a medical student at UF COM 2) Have kept up to date with the story 3) Met both Ben and Dean Kone 4) Respect the faculty, staff and students at UF.
Again, I have only spoken out when others (especially on the other thread dedicated to this debacle) have blamed the U of F, instead of the Dean himself. I am able to make a distinction.
And yes, most of the people who are responding to my posts are candidates who have not been accepted (whether they haven't been accepted yet, waitlisted, or rejected). Which is unfortunate because their opinions are going to be as biased as mine.

 

[UFMed]

...

 

[manok31]

Uhhh.......he/she has a profile up there so it is not hard to figure out. It said USF was their other acceptance.

Actually, as of yesterday, I'm trying to decide between UF, USF, and UM. [I hope that didn't come off like I'm bragging.] I didn't get a chance to update my profile yet. Of the 3 schools, I feel that I know the least about UF. Like I mentioned before, I missed the Saturday 2nd Look program, and I'm really open to hearing any positive or negative comments about UF, especially if it's from personal experience. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can about the school, but I might just have to visit Gainesville again before the 15th.

BTW, thanks for all your helpful posts in the past, gujuDoc.

 

[wally47]

Under the belt?

It begins to become annoying when everyone jumps on me simply because I am adhering to a more diplomatic stance in regards to the institution's reputation. I had already stated here and elsewhere that I do not agree with the Dean's decision, but that doesn't imply I am going to jump on the bandwagon and attack UFCOM, faculty or students. Being the only person who is attempting to save UF's face is difficult (you should refer to the other thread dedicated to this debacle). And because no one else has risen in defense of the ADCOM, that tried to do the right thing, I think other posters have used me as the only target on SDN available. My point with that question was to show that most of the people who are asking me to "open my eyes" and "eschew ethics" (and what not) have not read my posts for content but have instead exagerrated my opinions & loyalty as a means of venting their own frustration. People are looking for someone to rip on here and I am one of few who 1) will DEFINITELY be a medical student at UF COM 2) Have kept up to date with the story 3) Met both Ben and Dean Kone 4) Respect the faculty, staff and students at UF.
Again, I have only spoken out when others (especially on the other thread dedicated to this debacle) have blamed the U of F, instead of the Dean himself. I am able to make a distinction.
And yes, most of the people who are responding to my posts are candidates who have not been accepted (whether they haven't been accepted yet, waitlisted, or rejected). Which is unfortunate because their opinions are going to be as biased as mine.

I may only have two of your criteria now, but maybe i'll have three soon. I think you and I have gotten off the beaten path a little. As it stands we will continue to disagree and like Guju said, regardless of whether I get accepted or not, I will continue to have the same beliefs about the situation as a whole. That's not to say they won't change in the distant future I am just saying they won't change if UF comes knocking tomorrow with an acceptance. Where you and I differ, if I have this right, is on whether or not we want Ben to be our classmate next year. I am perfectly able to accept that someone is better qualified than me but the adcom clearly said that Ben isn't. Everything else, if you scan both of our posts, we share. Part of what has me up in arms about this event is how UF is the perfect fit for me too! Peace UFmed. (-<)

Don't feel like you have to defend UF's reputation, it's not going anywhere. Like you said most are picking on you because you are the closet link they have to UF(being accepted and all.) I tend to root for the underdog and be one too. All the insults to UF rep just fuels my fire to succeed once there. If anyone starts attacking UF faculty(other than Kone and Machen) they are ludacris. Faculty is top notch, like anyone would expect at a MEDICAL SCHOOL. Other than that it's people being judgmental, which is what you should expect from an anonymous premed forum(negative characteristic of type A personalities.) However, you are getting a high amount of posts. I will try and get your back when I can.

 

[medgator]

What made you choose UF?

For any 3rd or 4th year med students:

How were your experiences with rotations in Jacksonville? Can you tell me a little about housing and the environment?

How do the teaching faculty on rotations treat you?

Any advice concerning this decision or living in Gainesville would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

Hi.... doesn't seem like there is much of a response from any of the current med students at UF. I graduated from their a few years ago (c/o 2005) and posted my thoughts on it here.

The info might be a bit dated nowadays, but hope it helps.

 

[axlaxl1]

I missed this whole scuffle yesterday, but this last statement is pretty weak, definitely below the belt.

Here's what it boils down to for me. The dean says his hands are tied because of privacy reasons, fine. Ben's not bound to keep his own privacy. If I was getting all this flack about being accepted, and I truly was exceptional, I would do an interview with a paper, and let everyone know how truly exceptional I was. Don't hold your breath on this, though.

I second this. I mean that is the point what is exceptional. We are all exceptional little children aren't we. I mean I just went to a banquet last night. Over and over and over again we were told how exceptional we are. GREAT. But, the fact remains what this kid had a 4.0. Ok I had a 3.89... Whooo hoooo. I mean what the hell could make someone so exceptional they don't need to take the MCAT.

Money? Power? Friends? The Skulls? I don't freaking know but it is amazing to me that he (KONE) thinks he can get away with the piddly SPIN. He is exceptional, HAAAA, good one Kone that will keep us from wondering for a while.

NEXT

 

[UFMEDCO2011]

But, the fact remains what this kid had a 4.0. Ok I had a 3.89... Whooo hoooo. I mean what the hell could make someone so exceptional they don't need to take the MCAT.

1st year here.

And what's funny is.. that's what we're wondering. Nearly the entire med student body is upset about this. And it has come out that he has a 3.0. For a US allopathic school, Very exceptional indeed

There are very few students who don't feel this is a HUGE EMBARRASSMENT to us and our school. When these articles broke, there were those who even expressed regret over not choosing another medical school. YES, these articles have been having THAT much of an impact. Everytime a new article is written on the subject, it is immediately sent out over the UF COM listserv to EVERY STUDENT and it inevitably becomes the topic of the day. So our good ol' friend Ben is very popular these days (HA!)...


On the topic of Dean Kone, I've had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with him on several occasions. He's quite a character and very vocal about his goals for the school, which is why I and others was shocked when these articles came out about him. But it soon became clear from talking to upperclassmen, faculty/staff, and others in "the know" that Dean Kone has a very malicious side to him..


DEAN KONE FACTS:

1) He's responsible for letting go of Dr. Watson. Dr. Watson is a lovable old doc who was in charge of the Chapman fund -- a donation given for the purpose of encouraging caring and empathy amongst future docs. Apparently, story around the communicore and shands states the reason for the firing of Watson was so Kone could funnel the fund into research to help UF ascend the US News rankings (which Dean Kones is UNAPOLOGETICALLY OBSESSED WITH -- even today we received another email from Kone thru our listserv stating how great it would be to get out of #49). Problem is... Mrs. Chapman -- the benefactor of the fund -- is STILL ALIVE and is pretty enraged over the whole debacle (see http://www.gainesville.com/article/20080410/NEWS/804100316/0/news for more info)

2) HE IS THE REASON DR. ROMRELL LEFT TO GO TO FSU! All current students will tell you, Dr. Romrell was one of the GREATEST ANATOMY PROFESSORS we've had. Dean Kone's actions have pissed off a lot of faculty and staff, including Dr. Romrell... who subsequently resigned (see the aforementioned article for his comments). This is unfortunate for you incoming students..

Anyways.. since ol' Benny boy didn't finish his AMCAS in time, has a 3.0, and has NOT taken the MCAT... obviously this is the only US allopathic school he got into. Apparently he confirmed he was definitely coming here during 2nd look as well. Which, if he does, during his 4 years he will serve as a rotten reminder of the corruption and scandal Kone has unleashed on this school.

 

[UFMEDCO2011]

Haha Now that I've gotten that out the way, I should mention -- I love UF COM (when we're not making the news for being scandalous). It's a great school with very good Board-driven education, and my classmates have pretty much become like family up here. And I actually got into the rest of the Florida schools as well and chose here.. I feel its one of the better choices in Florida. Although, I'm not entirely convinced that it blows Miami out the water.. I think if I had to go back and make the decision again, my decision would STILL be just as difficult :-\ Guess that doesn't help, sorry lol

 

[mdgator]

1st year here.

And what's funny is.. that's what we're wondering. Nearly the entire med student body is upset about this. And it has come out that he has a 3.0. For a US allopathic school, Very exceptional indeed

There are very few students who don't feel this is a HUGE EMBARRASSMENT to us and our school. When these articles broke, there were those who even expressed regret over not choosing another medical school. YES, these articles have been having THAT much of an impact. Everytime a new article is written on the subject, it is immediately sent out over the UF COM listserv to EVERY STUDENT and it inevitably becomes the topic of the day. So our good ol' friend Ben is very popular these days (HA!)...


On the topic of Dean Kone, I've had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with him on several occasions. He's quite a character and very vocal about his goals for the school, which is why I and others was shocked when these articles came out about him. But it soon became clear from talking to upperclassmen, faculty/staff, and others in "the know" that Dean Kone has a very malicious side to him..


DEAN KONE FACTS:

1) He's responsible for letting go of Dr. Watson. Dr. Watson is a lovable old doc who was in charge of the Chapman fund -- a donation given for the purpose of encouraging caring and empathy amongst future docs. Apparently, story around the communicore and shands states the reason for the firing of Watson was so Kone could funnel the fund into research to help UF ascend the US News rankings (which Dean Kones is UNAPOLOGETICALLY OBSESSED WITH -- even today we received another email from Kone thru our listserv stating how great it would be to get out of #49). Problem is... Mrs. Chapman -- the benefactor of the fund -- is STILL ALIVE and is pretty enraged over the whole debacle (see http://www.gainesville.com/article/20080410/NEWS/804100316/0/news for more info)

2) HE IS THE REASON DR. ROMRELL LEFT TO GO TO FSU! All current students will tell you, Dr. Romrell was one of the GREATEST ANATOMY PROFESSORS we've had. Dean Kone's actions have pissed off a lot of faculty and staff, including Dr. Romrell... who subsequently resigned (see the aforementioned article for his comments). This is unfortunate for you incoming students..

Anyways.. since ol' Benny boy didn't finish his AMCAS in time, has a 3.0, and has NOT taken the MCAT... obviously this is the only US allopathic school he got into. Apparently he confirmed he was definitely coming here during 2nd look as well. Which, if he does, during his 4 years he will serve as a rotten reminder of the corruption and scandal Kone has unleashed on this school.

Wow! Thanks for this post. 3.0. I honestly was starting to assume that he probably was a pretty exceptional candidate, (not that that would make it okay), but it seems to be more and more obvious that this kid is simply not qualified. Also, I was wondering how the current students felt about the situation.

 

[wally47]

Thank you for your inside scoop. I had heard that students were pissed, it's amazing to think that some are upset enough to second guess themselves though.

 

[manok31]

I'm going to send you a PM. I sent your post on here to a couple of people to respond to if they got a chance. One of them is soon to start 3rd year and just finished 2nd year this year. she responded to the post of yours and told me to forward it to you with her email for you to email her if you have further questions. She's not started yet on 3rd year so she won't know much about 3rd or 4th year yet though.

Thanks, gujudoc and medgator! I really appreciate your help!

 

[Dendrite]

1st year here.

And what's funny is.. that's what we're wondering. Nearly the entire med student body is upset about this. And it has come out that he has a 3.0. For a US allopathic school, Very exceptional indeed

How was this information determined, by word of mouth, or from sources that are in the know with admissions? I figured, since this has become quite heated, it is best to support details as much as possible before discussions are continued (as has been very well done by the gainesville newspapers).

Don't get me wrong, I still don't think he's as qualified as others waiting to hear from UF or have been unduly rejected. I would rather be justified in that opinion above all else.

 

[axlaxl1]

1st year here.

And what's funny is.. that's what we're wondering. Nearly the entire med student body is upset about this. And it has come out that he has a 3.0. For a US allopathic school, Very exceptional indeed

A WHAT, A 3.0 OMG. I think there is a little something in my mouth,
oh no it is coming up a bit, ahhh ohhh ohhh <<<< BEN

Wow, this really is pathetic. I am going to e-mail UF tomorrow and ask about this. I want a response of why I am wait-listed and he is accepted. I am not going to be rude about it or obnoxious but rather I would just like to know how this person wit no MCAT and 3.0 GPA is better than any of us.

UFMEDCO2011, I appreciate your honesty. You are a reason why UF is still such a great school. It is so easy to just sit back and defend and act like "hey get the hell off my back" just because, well, it isn't you who was put on wait-list over this Ben guy (refrained from name calling).

It is refreshing to hear that this is upsetting to the UF student body and that they do care about the perceived reputation of the school.

This too shall pass but in honesty this should pass with Kone's a$$ being shown the door.

 

[mdgator]

A WHAT, A 3.0 OMG. I think there is a little something in my mouth,
oh no it is coming up a bit, ahhh ohhh ohhh <<<< BEN

Wow, this really is pathetic. I am going to e-mail UF tomorrow and ask about this. I want a response of why I am wait-listed and he is accepted. I am not going to be rude about it or obnoxious but rather I would just like to know how this person wit no MCAT and 3.0 GPA is better than any of us.

UFMEDCO2011, I appreciate your honesty. You are a reason why UF is still such a great school. It is so easy to just sit back and defend and act like "hey get the hell off my back" just because, well, it isn't you who was put on wait-list over this Ben guy (refrained from name calling).

It is refreshing to hear that this is upsetting to the UF student body and that they do care about the perceived reputation of the school.

This too shall pass but in honesty this should pass with Kone's a$$ being shown the door.

With my initial shock from hearing that Benny had a 3.0 having passed, I think that we should not all accept this info from UFMEDCO2011 blindly. I'm not saying I don't believe him/her...I have no reason to doubt his credibility. But we don't have any way of knowing this personn (or anyone on SDN for that matter), and he has a very brief post history. And even if he is being truthful, (which, again, I'm not doubting), he hasn't divulged his source, which could also be faulty. It's just very hard to buy that even Kone would admit someone with a 3.0, in addition to no MCAT. (But, then again, the guy seems to be pretty crazy.) We should probably wait for more evidence to this fact to hopefully come out before we make an already disgusting situation more emotionally charged...

I mean...they wouldn't really admit someone with a 3.0, no MCAT over so many other qualified people....would they??? I REALLY hope not. That's the only way this situation could possibly be more sickening.

 

[realjara]

1st year here.

And what's funny is.. that's what we're wondering. Nearly the entire med student body is upset about this. And it has come out that he has a 3.0. For a US allopathic school, Very exceptional indeed



All I can say is WOW! How could Dean Kone expect that his overruling of adcom committee to admit such an applicant would not be leaked and cause an uproar? The whole incident is "exceptional"!!

 

[UFMed]

1st year here.

And what's funny is.. that's what we're wondering. Nearly the entire med student body is upset about this. And it has come out that he has a 3.0. For a US allopathic school, Very exceptional indeed

There are very few students who don't feel this is a HUGE EMBARRASSMENT to us and our school. When these articles broke, there were those who even expressed regret over not choosing another medical school. YES, these articles have been having THAT much of an impact. Everytime a new article is written on the subject, it is immediately sent out over the UF COM listserv to EVERY STUDENT and it inevitably becomes the topic of the day. So our good ol' friend Ben is very popular these days (HA!)...


On the topic of Dean Kone, I've had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with him on several occasions. He's quite a character and very vocal about his goals for the school, which is why I and others was shocked when these articles came out about him. But it soon became clear from talking to upperclassmen, faculty/staff, and others in "the know" that Dean Kone has a very malicious side to him..


DEAN KONE FACTS:

1) He's responsible for letting go of Dr. Watson. Dr. Watson is a lovable old doc who was in charge of the Chapman fund -- a donation given for the purpose of encouraging caring and empathy amongst future docs. Apparently, story around the communicore and shands states the reason for the firing of Watson was so Kone could funnel the fund into research to help UF ascend the US News rankings (which Dean Kones is UNAPOLOGETICALLY OBSESSED WITH -- even today we received another email from Kone thru our listserv stating how great it would be to get out of #49). Problem is... Mrs. Chapman -- the benefactor of the fund -- is STILL ALIVE and is pretty enraged over the whole debacle (see http://www.gainesville.com/article/20080410/NEWS/804100316/0/news for more info)

2) HE IS THE REASON DR. ROMRELL LEFT TO GO TO FSU! All current students will tell you, Dr. Romrell was one of the GREATEST ANATOMY PROFESSORS we've had. Dean Kone's actions have pissed off a lot of faculty and staff, including Dr. Romrell... who subsequently resigned (see the aforementioned article for his comments). This is unfortunate for you incoming students..

Anyways.. since ol' Benny boy didn't finish his AMCAS in time, has a 3.0, and has NOT taken the MCAT... obviously this is the only US allopathic school he got into. Apparently he confirmed he was definitely coming here during 2nd look as well. Which, if he does, during his 4 years he will serve as a rotten reminder of the corruption and scandal Kone has unleashed on this school.

Your post sounds a little fishy. You offer no sources, no new information (your listed items can be determined by reading the news articles) and your inside scoop is the med students at UF are crying regret for choosing thier current school. At this point I don't even know if I would be surprised or not if Ben really had a 3.0, but without evidence your claim is empty.

And then the comment about UF not blowing UM out of the water... (haha, what's the point of even mentioning that? Of course you have a right to your opinion, but have you attended both medical schools to compare?)

I'm just going to come out and say I don't believe you-

As if I couldn't start another account with a fancy username (and ultra low post count) to add fuel to this fire.

 

[UFMed]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6607899&postcount=1827

Information/opinion on UFCOM from student.

 

[axlaxl1]

Yeah that echos what 2 other med student friends of mine sent me in response to Manok's questions. It seems that all 4 med students or former med studnts that have now been asked about UF have all said they have no regrets and are happy there.

GUJU, for the first time I just don't understand what the point is about what other people feel and how you are taking this weird side with a few people on this thread.

I mean isn't it bizarre that it is FACT that KONE went through students e-mails to see who the whistle blower was? MY goodness is that not enough to explain how horrid and disastrous this situation is.

Is UF a bad school? Hell NO. I am not saying that. Nobody is saying that. I wouldn't even expect students to SAY they regret going there because of THIS particular incident. But, I will say students probably feel ashamed and are embarrassed by the situation.

Why do you think there was a whistle-blower in the first place? Someone looked at the situation and said, WOW THIS IS BS and I am not gonna let it go. Why? Because no matter what a person feels like NOW, no matter what a potential student coming into matriculation may FEEL like now, THIS IS AN EMBARRASSMENT FOR UF PERIOD.

In fact, you don't think others higher up than you and I can ever know are looking at this situation and saying, " UF is taking non qualified students to spite its face for political consideration... Hmmmm, perhaps their ranking or their community standing isn't so important to them, perhaps their accreditation isn't that important to them, perhaps they need a wake up call."

BAM, then it happens. Isn't that how all scandal and consequence goes? From Whistle-blower to Whispers to full blown repudiation from an elite organization that thought they were oh so above it all.

This is the last time I am going to say it. UFMED you don't believe the jerk got a 3.0 SO WHAT.

I don't care if it were a 3.0 or a 3.5 or a damn 4.0. There IS NOTHING THERE THAT IS EXCEPTIONAL. We are all exceptional and UF dropped the BALL on this one. Kone is an idiot and should BE FIRED.

 

[RSAgator]

I don't care if it were a 3.0 or a 3.5 or a damn 4.0. There IS NOTHING THERE THAT IS EXCEPTIONAL. We are all exceptional and UF dropped the BALL on this one. Kone is an idiot and should BE FIRED.

We are all exceptional so everyone should get in!

Just listen to yourself. Do you honestly believe that GPA and MCAT alone determine how exceptional an individual is? Do you know for a FACT that this kid's GPA is a 3.0? Do you know ANYTHING ELSE about him? Obviously I don't personally know the kid, nor do I personally know you, but I don't see you running to every URM who gets in with lower stats and spouting your cruel injustice agenda to them. I'm not jumping on the Ben bandwagon, and quite honestly I think the decision to let him in was likely a very poor one, but I think you blow it way out of proportion. Just let it rest dude.

 

[axlaxl1]

We are all exceptional so everyone should get in!

Just listen to yourself. Do you honestly believe that GPA and MCAT alone determine how exceptional an individual is? Do you know for a FACT that this kid's GPA is a 3.0? Do you know ANYTHING ELSE about him? Obviously I don't personally know the kid, nor do I personally know you, but I don't see you running to every URM who gets in with lower stats and spouting your cruel injustice agenda to them. I'm not jumping on the Ben bandwagon, and quite honestly I think the decision to let him in was likely a very poor one, but I think you blow it way out of proportion. Just let it rest dude.

No but now there is another news article stating how a girl was home schooled and received a 25 on her MCAT and she got in to because her "dad" went to the school and pulled some strings because he was a former graduate from UFCOM.

The cronyism doesn't stop does it?

And listen to yourself, didn't you READ the part where I said I don't care if he got a 3.0 a 3.5 of a 4.0 what could possibly make him so "exceptional" he doesn't need to take the MCAT or fill out an application? It is not blown out of proportion it is the simple fact that some of the way people are defending this situation, NOT you, makes it more sickening.

 

[Dendrite]

No but now there is another news article stating how a girl was home schooled and received a 25 on her MCAT and she got in to because her "dad" went to the school and pulled some strings because he was a former graduate from UFCOM.

Can you please provide the source for this?

 

[UFMed]

No but now there is another news article stating how a girl was home schooled and received a 25 on her MCAT and she got in to because her "dad" went to the school and pulled some strings because he was a former graduate from UFCOM.

The cronyism doesn't stop does it?

And listen to yourself, didn't you READ the part where I said I don't care if he got a 3.0 a 3.5 of a 4.0 what could possibly make him so "exceptional" he doesn't need to take the MCAT or fill out an application? It is not blown out of proportion it is the simple fact that some of the way people are defending this situation, NOT you, makes it more sickening.

Does using CAPS make you feel powerful?

Absolutely no one is defending Dean Kone. Some people (myself included) are easily capable of distinguishing between the culprits and the by-standers. The University of Florida rejected the student, and their decision was undermined by the dean. The admissions committee did not break with LCME guidelines or bend to cronyism. The blame and criticism should be placed on the culprit, not the university. UF tried to do the right thing.
Perhaps it's because I've adopted an insider's perspective, that I am able to see the difference. Again, it's not a defense of the dean but a defense of the university (which realized too late it has no control over what a dean deems is appropiate).
I guess it's loosely similar to putting the blame of entering the Iraq War on the Bush Administration (vs. the American people) while still saying I "support the troops" and foster pride for being an American.

 

[Dendrite]

GUJU, for the first time I just don't understand what the point is about what other people feel and how you are taking this weird side with a few people on this thread.

How is it a weird stance? Guju has had a consistent stance on this issue - to let the proper people handle the situation, whether an independent organization, faculty/administration, or the LCME. She is providing a perspective from current medical students who are in the midst of this entire thing - the information can't be any more direct than actually hearing medical students' take on this and on the UFCOM.

And how is she taking a weird side with a few people on this thread. I don't know if you've noticed, but this is the UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA c/o 2012 thread. The people on this thread that have been accepted have decided that they want to go matriculate. I don't understand what your intentions are. In all honesty, it seems as though you want everyone who was legitimately accepted to withdraw because of this action (again, let me emphasize, I don't agree with it - just in case you interpret this as a weak point to this argument). But at the same time, you still state that UF is a good school. Perhaps you are hoping to get other people to withdraw so that you can get a spot?

It seems as though you are intentionally trying to fan the flames of what has already turned into a significant fire. We can't do anything else than see how the proper authorities handle this (i.e. the LCME, or any other administrative body). I've spoken to admissions representatives at other institutions, and they have even said this isn't likely to impact the current or future students. Let me reiterate here, I still don't think this guy met the initial qualifications (that's all I can say, because I have not met him, and neither have you).

I think it's time you give it a rest.

 

[wally47]

Does using CAPS make you feel powerful?

Absolutely no one is defending Dean Kone. Some people (myself included) are easily capable of distinguishing between the culprits and the by-standers. The University of Florida rejected the student, and their decision was undermined by the dean. The admissions committee did not break with LCME guidelines or bend to cronyism. The blame and criticism should be placed on the culprit, not the university. UF tried to do the right thing.
Perhaps it's because I've adopted an insider's perspective, that I am able to see the difference. Again, it's not a defense of the dean but a defense of the university (which realized too late it has no control over what a dean deems is appropiate).
I guess it's loosely similar to putting the blame of entering the Iraq War on the Bush Administration (vs. the American people) while still saying I "support the troops" and foster pride for being an American.

I posted this on the florida schools thread, but it fits. I agree with UF being a great school. As far is the cronyism goes? Well it sucks and like others said it exists in one form or another at every school. Just do your best to realize this, like I am beginning to, and then make your choice. After all guys and gals, someone needs to be at the bottom of the class, might as well be the cronies. I do still understand that it spits in the face of qualified applicants, and there is no silver lining to it. There does come a time as guju said, when you should let it go and allow it to be handled by the appropriate people. Use it as motivation, I know I will. Don't use it to degrade or diminish a school. Like we have discussed UF and it's alumni don't deserve to be lumped in with stuff like "this will hurt UF's rep". Not really it will only hurt Kone's and Ben's rep if you ask me. As the sign of a stellar university, UF will continue to be great despite the fact that their captain is drunk at the wheel(gotta love scrubs). So no worries here.

 

[UFMEDCO2011]

Dean Kone just sent us a NOVELLA of an email about the Ben case .. I swear you need cliff notes for his emails. It will most likely appear in tomorrow's gainesvillesun, just a heads up


And with that, I'll refrain from rehashing this and avoid polluting this thread with the controversy! Any Q's y'all can private message me

 

[D-Bone]

So has anyone heard of any movement at all with the UF waitlist? Some people did mention dropping the spot in the class with recent USF, UM, etc acceptances.

 

[axlaxl1]

Dr. Bruce Kone issued a mea culpa Tuesday for "regrettable" comments he made in widely-publicized e-mails, but the University of Florida dean stood by his decision to recently admit a student to medical school without committee backing.
Kone, who has been dean of UF's College of Medicine for about a year, gave a lengthy apology to the college's Faculty Council. Before a group of about 25 people, he lamented that he had berated UF leaders and the community at large in an e-mail.
"What I most deeply regret, though, is the language that I used in e-mails I sent to campus colleagues, particularly the hurtful e-mail I sent to senior leadership a few weeks ago that was subsequently published in The Gainesville Sun," Kone said. "It was disrespectful. It was demeaning to our leaders, our university, our community — and it was just plain wrong."

Kone further acknowledged that his actions had taken a toll on him and the college as a whole, a view that was also expressed by some members of the council at Tuesday's meeting.
"This has been a a horrible month for the College of Medicine, a horrible month for me and my family," Kone said.
When Kone wrapped up his speech, he was given applause by the faculty in attendance. Shortly after leaving the council meeting, Kone sent an e-mail summarizing his comments out to College of Medicine faculty, staff and others.
Dr. David Quillen, a faculty member in the Department of Health and Family Medicine, said after the meeting that Kone's apology was a required step for the embattled dean.
"If he's serious about his job and wants to keep it, an apology was due — and a good one," said Quillen, who said the dean has done good work and should stay on for the time being.
"I think the worst thing that could happen to this college is this dean leaves in six months," Quillen said.
Kone, who has been criticized by faculty and at least two UF trustees, may still face further scrutiny. The Faculty Council is considering the possibility of evaluating his performance in the near future, as opposed to waiting until his third year as is tradition. The last such action was more than a decade ago, when faculty prompted large-scale changes in leadership.
Kone first came under fire when he chose to override the Medical Selection Committee and admit Benjamin Mendelsohn, a student from a politically connected family. While Kone cites student privacy laws that forbid him from discussing Mendelsohn's credentials, he elaborated Tuesday on his reasons for taking extraordinary action in Mendelsohn's case.
Mendelsohn was a scholar athlete at Pine Crest High School, achieving great recognition among a class of top-notch students, Kone said. The South Florida-based school is also Kone's own alma mater, and Kone's father was also previously employed by the school.
Despite Kone's praise of Mendelsohn, members of the selection committee have raised questions about his credentials. Members told The Sun that Mendelsohn had not taken the Medical College Admission Test, a basic requirement for students seeking regular admission into medical school.
Kone vaguely addressed the MCAT issue Tuesday, noting that Mendelsohn had previously been enrolled in Northwestern University's honors program in medical education, a combined bachelor's and medical degree program that does not require the MCAT. UF has a similar program called Junior Honors, which does not require the MCAT, but that wasn't the program to which Mendelsohn was applying, according to committee members.

"The point is, (Mendelsohn) is obviously gifted and he is also deeply committed to the highest ideals of the medical profession," Kone said. "He meets the high academic standards we set for our medical students, and he is every bit as qualified as our junior honors students who are so successful when they move on to medical school." Kone maintained that there was "no political influence" in his decision to admit Mendelsohn, whose father was a key fundraiser for Gov. Charlie Crist.
The controversy over Kone's role in the Mendelsohn case has prompted an internal review of the admissions process by college leaders. Dr. Frank Bova, a member of the Faculty Council, presented a resolution Tuesday that would create a subcommittee to provide input when an admissions case sparks disagreement as this one has.
The resolution would not answer the central question, however, of whether the dean is authorized to override the selection committee. Bova conceded the measure was intended as a temporary fix for a larger problem that will eventually need to be addressed in the college's bylaws, and the Faculty Council opted against voting on the resolution Tuesday.

 

[SetThisStraight]

So I've been reading this thread for awhile because I was curious to know what all you Florida people were thinking about the Ben situation. However, after reading the last couple posts, I can tell that people are skeptical about the things that have been said and I wanted to come on here and tell you the truth.

I know Ben personally because he was a student in the Honors Program for Medical Education here at Northwestern so this isn't heresy or crap I'm making up, it's the truth and you can message me for more info if you so feel like it for me to prove it. First, I wanted to say that Ben truly is a good guy. He is not, though, a good applicant to medical school. The rumors of him having a 3.0 GPA are true and I know this because I was in classes with him. In addition, he was kicked out of the honors program here because his GPA was too low because you need a 3.2 and up to stay in the program. In addition, Ben does not have the typical things one would look for in a med school application. His research is minimal and his volunteer work completely lacking. He has focused on helping his frat with IM sports but I hardly think that constitutes "extraordinary". His lack of MCAT is ridiculous and while Florida has students who didn't take the MCAT either through their honor's program, he didn't apply to that. He applied through the normal AMCAS application and would NEED a MCAT score in that case. Also, there were talks by Kone that he transfered between Northwestern's Honors to UF's Honors but this neither makes sense or is possible from at the very least Northwestern's standpoint. Lastly, I've heard him tell people that his Dad helped him get into the Honors program at Northwestern and it would seem that this sort of "help" only continued for his acceptance to UF.

So yea, these are just some facts, not speculation and I wanted you guys to know the real deal. UF is still obviously an awesome school but yea, it sucks for those on the waitlist hoping to get in. And yes, I realize this is my first post and could be making it up but really why would I waste the time to make an account and write this post if I didn't actually know something...

 

[maestro1625]

edited:
meant to post this in the other thread.

 

[wally47]

I am responding to this in the other thread like I promised.

 

[axlaxl1]

So I've been reading this thread for awhile because I was curious to know what all you Florida people were thinking about the Ben situation. However, after reading the last couple posts, I can tell that people are skeptical about the things that have been said and I wanted to come on here and tell you the truth.

I know Ben personally because he was a student in the Honors Program for Medical Education here at Northwestern so this isn't heresy or crap I'm making up, it's the truth and you can message me for more info if you so feel like it for me to prove it. First, I wanted to say that Ben truly is a good guy. He is not, though, a good applicant to medical school. The rumors of him having a 3.0 GPA are true and I know this because I was in classes with him. In addition, he was kicked out of the honors program here because his GPA was too low because you need a 3.2 and up to stay in the program. In addition, Ben does not have the typical things one would look for in a med school application. His research is minimal and his volunteer work completely lacking. He has focused on helping his frat with IM sports but I hardly think that constitutes "extraordinary". His lack of MCAT is ridiculous and while Florida has students who didn't take the MCAT either through their honor's program, he didn't apply to that. He applied through the normal AMCAS application and would NEED a MCAT score in that case. Also, there were talks by Kone that he transfered between Northwestern's Honors to UF's Honors but this neither makes sense or is possible from at the very least Northwestern's standpoint. Lastly, I've heard him tell people that his Dad helped him get into the Honors program at Northwestern and it would seem that this sort of "help" only continued for his acceptance to UF.

So yea, these are just some facts, not speculation and I wanted you guys to know the real deal. UF is still obviously an awesome school but yea, it sucks for those on the waitlist hoping to get in. And yes, I realize this is my first post and could be making it up but really why would I waste the time to make an account and write this post if I didn't actually know something...

Why haven't calls for Kone's FIRING BEEN LOUDER. Is there a drop dead date? D3 as we say it in my parts?

 

[Dendrite]

For those vocal about current things going on at UF, I don't think it is asking too much to speak your opinions in the Pre-allo forum. This thread has been vandalized by a tremendous amount of negative comments, and it would be best served to discuss issues more germane to medical students, like housing, costs of attendance, typical first year issues, etc.

 

[UFMed]

For those vocal about current things going on at UF, I don't think it is asking too much to speak your opinions in the Pre-allo forum. This thread has been vandalized by a tremendous amount of negative comments, and it would be best served to discuss issues more germane to medical students, like housing, costs of attendance, typical first year issues, etc.

Absolutely agreed. This thread is intended for those who have been accepted and have decided to matriculate to UF COM. It is the class thread, not a thread on UF in general.

With that said, I received my financial aid letter. It said there has been a 7% increase in tuition. Do they expect the tuition to increase every year (and if so, 7% every year?)? Also, what is the limit one can borrow from a Direct PLUS loan?

 

[wally47]

Very informative, surprising, and relieving. I hope it is true. You must be Ben's best friend the way you talk about him and all, thanks for the info.

 

[UFMed]

WilliWildcat's last post is only going to exacerbate the torturous bickering on this thread! Again, this thread is not supposed to be a battleground for the Dean Kone/Ben Mendelsohn incident.

I guess I'll have to sit back and watch the unfolding of yet another useless discourse on this matter.

 

[wally47]

WilliWildcat's last post is only going to exacerbate the torturous bickering on this thread! Again, this thread is not supposed to be a battleground for the Dean Kone/Ben Mendelsohn incident.

I guess I'll have to sit back and watch the unfolding of yet another useless discourse on this matter.

True that.

 

[WillieWildcat]

No UF Med, I am not trying to prolong the agony on this thread but...
You have had ugly, malicious posts on this thread that have not been countered by truth and reality.

In answer to the question, no I am not one of Ben's best friends but I do admire the guy.

Like any group of students, we have cliques within HPME but there are a small group of students that are somehow able to transcend the clique/groupie mentality and be friends with almost everyone. Ben is one of those all-around, extremely nice people who seems to really care about everyone in HPME.

Let's put it this way: He would be the last guy voted off the island. What more can I say?

 

[Dendrite]

No UF Med, I am not trying to prolong the agony on this thread but...
You have had ugly, malicious posts on this thread that have not been countered by truth and reality.

In answer to the question, no I am not one of Ben's best friends but I do admire the guy.

Like any group of students, we have cliques within HPME but there are a small group of students that are somehow able to transcend the clique/groupie mentality and be friends with almost everyone. Ben is one of those all-around, extremely nice people who seems to really care about everyone in HPME.

Let's put it this way: He would be the last guy voted off the island. What more can I say?

I think these posts would be best served in the Pre-allo forum, with a much greater amount of students reading threads like "Buying your way into med school." Most people in this thread have also come across that thread in that forum. Let's do some housecleaning on this thread and only handle issues pertinent to matriculating into UF.

Thank you for the info.