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deleted573262
The posting literally says start date is July 1st, 2020.
UNC midlevel residency program
- Thread starter Tenk
- Start date
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deleted480308
Someone is lying..., they hired and announced a director, selected salaries, listed MDs as involved in administration, and were advertising for staff months ago?
It’s possible the PD is being ordered to sign the lies and doesn’t want to but the institution is lying regardless of where it originated
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That response from the PD would make me even more hesitant about ranking them.
Regardless, cheers to the S***storm created by social media. Also, to those of you that aren't ranking UNC, you are actually, for once, representative of physicians speaking up with their feet and actually instituting change.
We salute you!
Regardless, cheers to the S***storm created by social media. Also, to those of you that aren't ranking UNC, you are actually, for once, representative of physicians speaking up with their feet and actually instituting change.
We salute you!
Unless she meant this *academic* year, in which case they’ll roll it out July 1. Full steam ahead!
Yeah. We came to the same conclusion essentially.
UNC: FACTS: WE WOULD NEVER PAY MIDLEVEL "RESIDENTS" MORE THAN PHYSICIAN RESIDENTS.
Everyone and their mother: "screenshot of midlevel salary of 60k."
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Concomitant post in Physicians for Patient Protection on FB by UNC PGY3
UPDATE REGARDING UNC "APP RESIDENCY"
I am one of the PGY3 EM residents here at UNC. I just wanted to update all of you on PPP about a meeting we had collectively today regarding the above issue. I know some of you noticed that myself or most of our EM residents were silent on this issue, particularly on EM DOCS. That was in part because it was surprise announcement to us as well and we did not have a lot of info on the matter. And as I mentioned to some of you that messaged me personally, we wanted to deal with this internally before blowing this thing up nationally (which kind of occurred). Dr. Binz, Brice, Larson are my friends and great people and I wanted to discuss it with them before bring misinformation by posting on comments sections that quite frankly were becoming rather inflammatory.
To give a little more info, our EM chair Dr. Brice and program director Dr. Binz were not aware that this announcement was going to occur. Yes Dr. Brice our chair was having some discussions regarding possibly starting up a program like this for NPPs to further training, but it was in the fledgling stages and she never intended to have that website go live or actually have a program curriculum like you saw, she was actually not even aware that it existed. That post was not approved by any physicians prior to being created.
There was never any intention to pay NPPs more than real residents, that was also misinformation.
As a resident here, I want you guys to know that UNC did not pull down the website or cancel the program because of the outcry on EM DOCS/PPP/studentdocnetwork. The program legit never existed yet. The program was in initial discussion and our few physician leaders involved were planning at some point to present the idea to us residents and our attendings. After todays meeting, where it was essentially unanimous that we didn't want this program at this time, and multiple opinions given including my own regarding training them beyond their scope of practice, the program is not happening.
UPDATE REGARDING UNC "APP RESIDENCY"
I am one of the PGY3 EM residents here at UNC. I just wanted to update all of you on PPP about a meeting we had collectively today regarding the above issue. I know some of you noticed that myself or most of our EM residents were silent on this issue, particularly on EM DOCS. That was in part because it was surprise announcement to us as well and we did not have a lot of info on the matter. And as I mentioned to some of you that messaged me personally, we wanted to deal with this internally before blowing this thing up nationally (which kind of occurred). Dr. Binz, Brice, Larson are my friends and great people and I wanted to discuss it with them before bring misinformation by posting on comments sections that quite frankly were becoming rather inflammatory.
To give a little more info, our EM chair Dr. Brice and program director Dr. Binz were not aware that this announcement was going to occur. Yes Dr. Brice our chair was having some discussions regarding possibly starting up a program like this for NPPs to further training, but it was in the fledgling stages and she never intended to have that website go live or actually have a program curriculum like you saw, she was actually not even aware that it existed. That post was not approved by any physicians prior to being created.
There was never any intention to pay NPPs more than real residents, that was also misinformation.
As a resident here, I want you guys to know that UNC did not pull down the website or cancel the program because of the outcry on EM DOCS/PPP/studentdocnetwork. The program legit never existed yet. The program was in initial discussion and our few physician leaders involved were planning at some point to present the idea to us residents and our attendings. After todays meeting, where it was essentially unanimous that we didn't want this program at this time, and multiple opinions given including my own regarding training them beyond their scope of practice, the program is not happening.
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And the job posting?
The fact that the leaders where planning on bringing this forth is a treason of some sort.
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Holy crap, what is up with UNC having a boner for midlevels?
Just last year their anesthesia department came down hard on an attending for spreading anti-CRNA rhetoric and now their EM department is aiding in the inevitable decline of their profession.
Really sad to see of the old alma mater. You're better than this UNC. DIsgusting.
Just last year their anesthesia department came down hard on an attending for spreading anti-CRNA rhetoric and now their EM department is aiding in the inevitable decline of their profession.
Really sad to see of the old alma mater. You're better than this UNC. DIsgusting.
No one know$.
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As an anesthesiologist I am very jealous and proud of the fact that you all stood up against this and that UNC put a kibosh to this for the time being. We need to remain vigilant and be advocates for our patients and profession. We have nurses in our field calling themselves anesthesiologists - its madness and yes the sky is falling. All MDs are in this together. Patients are being deceived and Med Execs are reaping the $$$.
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deleted573262
You didn't read the posting! The job is an application for the spot as a PA resident, starting July 1st, 2020.
Here is the text:
If you are a new Graduate or less than 1 year post-graduation please upload the following: Graduate of ARC-PA accredited PA program, or accredited FNP program, minimum 3.0 GPA NCCPA certification-eligible, or ANCC/AANP certified NC licensure/NC license-eligible Curriculum Vitae, including any prior health care experience Cover letter, explaining why you wish to pursue an emergency medicine residency at UNC Hospitals Two (2) letters of recommendation One from Program Director One from faculty member/clinical preceptor Official transcripts from graduate program Practicing with more than 1 year experience please upload the following: Graduate of ARC-PA accredited PA program, or accredited FNP program, minimum 3.0 GPA NCCPA certified, or ANCC/AANP certified NC licensure/NC license-eligible Curriculum Vitae, including any prior health care experience Cover letter, explaining why you wish to pursue an emergency medicine residency at UNC Hospitals Two (2) letters of recommendation, including one from supervising/collaborative physician, or department head Letter of good standing from current employer No history of license suspension/revocation No history of employment dismissal from prior PA/NP positions Official transcripts from graduate program
Pro body builder Roelly Winklaar (nicknamed The Beast for his remarkable physique and huge muscles) once said “everyone wants to be the beast but nobody wants to do what the beast does”.
That’s what comes to mind whenever I run into these wanna be docs.
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PSA: PLEASE READ!!!!!!
Entire post/web page/APP program was fabricated by an extra gunnery MS4 who thought he bombed his IV at UNC!!!!!!!
lol
DNR DNR DNR DNR DNR DNR DNR DNR DNR
Entire post/web page/APP program was fabricated by an extra gunnery MS4 who thought he bombed his IV at UNC!!!!!!!
lol
DNR DNR DNR DNR DNR DNR DNR DNR DNR
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deleted480308
So we’re to believe NO doctor was involved in approving a program they admit they discussed, hr advertised for faculty, hr hired a director, public relations and IT announced, and budgeting set a salary for, AND they were listed by name on the page?
It doesn’t take a doctor to do ALL of that?
Gotta say I’m doubtful unless you are proposing the most rogue PAs in the country and a lax hospital structure.
I bet this program is official again in less than 36 months
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honestly, there should be a STICKY at the top of EVERY forum outlet - SDN, Reddit, FB, WCI etc....with the names of programs like these to avoid. Put it out in the front so whoever visits these forums has an idea of which programs to avoid. I am sure that will drive down their applications per year and other programs will start to take note.
TheSingularity
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Ok.
Real talk time.
1) There is no stopping this. It's already present in a ton of programs. Where was this outrage 8 years ago?
2) Telling MS4s not to rank UNC because of this is absolutely atrocious advice. You can rank it at the bottom or whatever, but please don't exclude this program from your rank list unless you'd be happier being unemployed
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Real talk time.
1) There is no stopping this. It's already present in a ton of programs. Where was this outrage 8 years ago?
2) Telling MS4s not to rank UNC because of this is absolutely atrocious advice. You can rank it at the bottom or whatever, but please don't exclude this program from your rank list unless you'd be happier being unemployed
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I wasn't a medical student 8 years ago, had I been I would have said something. Shouldn't this be asked of older attendings?
TheSingularity
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Short of organizing into a union type body and walking out, physicians are not going to stop this. There is a powerful hospital-VC-insurance industry-government complex that wants this dilution very badly. We've lost. You can partly thank the EM docs of yesteryear who made their 400/hr and relinquished administrative control. Keep your head down, do your work, make your money, marry well (if you choose to be married), pay off your loans, invest, have fun outside of work.
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Sent from my Pixel 3 using SDN mobile
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Lol you sound like the teacher's pet. Open your eyes and critically examine the evidence...like a scientist. Your PD's story has more holes in it than the swiss cheese model. They're going to make more money at UNC EM residents' expense. They are not your friends.
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This is not me btw, just sharing the message
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All important question: who is in charge? and who started it? Guarantee both are physicians.The University of Iowa started the first EM APP residency.
From their website:
"Proudly the first EM APP residency program in the country"
"The residency program's fundamental philosophy is to train the EM Advanced Practice Provider with the core competencies and skills sets allowing them to practice in any emergency, acute care, or intensive care setting, including solo coverage of a critical access hospital emergency department."
"EM Advanced Practice residents will be allowed to see all patients needing care in the emergency department. As you progress through the curriculum, we expect you to become more comfortable and efficient caring for a larger number of patients as well as seeing more critically ill patients."
Department of Emergency Medicine
medicine.uiowa.edu
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deleted547339
Dude, you got hoodwinked. Someone was planning on this starting. I have no personal knowledge of this, but I have some idea of how this would go down. A few people with some authority wanted this and were pushing this through behind closed doors. It might have been prematurely released online, but some folks had 100% intention to do this exactly as it was posed, otherwise they wouldn’t have created salary numbers and a curriculum and job postings. This wasn’t a prelim concept that was just being kicked around. This was a program ready for the green light. Potentially prior to getting the official green light, someone with IT access posted it before the chair was able to announce it on his or her terms. Once your chair says this is good for the department and everyone needs to be a team player, it’s going to happen. Instead of being presented by the chair to the department, it got prematurely posted online and seen for what it is (instead of what the chair or whomever wanted it to be).
You’re seeing the world through rose colored glasses.
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Can you post the screen shot of the salary? I'm going to post it in response to their PDs post in EM docs
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Time to start asking for more transparency from residency programs regarding medicare funding. If UNC can pay for midlevel "residencies" than it can certainly afford to increase resident pay, no? The residents might as well counter-attack this nonsense.
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To the resident quoted above: respectfully, I think your program is really feeding you some nonsense, and you should not be so gullible.
A) It's unlikely that an entire residency program with NPPs does not make it through without some physician input, especially if it's being supported by the Department of Emergency Medicine which is headed by physicians. Make no mistake about it, some influential physicians in your group likely supported this.
B) Hypothetically, if the physicians had ZERO knowledge about this program, what does it say about a place that some midlevel provider who heads this program, or the hospital for that matter, just decided they were going to create this program without any input from the physician group and post the details online? I would say that is EVEN more concerning. Nobody just accidentally posts a well developed curriculum on the website, this has gone through many stages of revisions, and may or may not have included physicians.
If I were you as an outgoing PGY3, I would call your program out on this instead of defending them. You would be doing a service to future residents at UNC and likely our specialty as a whole.
I think all this is just an eye opener for all medical students in the country. It’s gone too far on how residents are treated and all this is because without a residency you are screwed on your journey to be boarded. So they know med students are desperate. The older physicians who are now the big wigs don’t give a damn on the integrity of the medical profession, most are concerned with dollars. We went from working ridiculous hours and finally got some come control on that. Now we have to fight for favorable compensation And more importantly fight to have enough exposure to learn on the job because “mid levels needs to learn as well”.
Try telling that to the pre med kids going to DO schools with PF usmle for 500k. You get accused of being an angry man yelling at a cloud.
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You know what? **** clouds. Can't trust 'em. Cumulonimbus my ***.
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You guys are obsessing over this UNC thing, which is great. But there are even more programs that pay midlevel trainees more than residents.
homebaseddad112818
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This is the real message. These programs need to be spotlighted further every cycle, both for VSAS and ERAS.
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And it should become a primary top criteria for applicants.
UCLA, VA Greater Los Angeles Healthcare System launch nurse residency program
The program will be the only VA post-licensure residency program in the Los Angeles and Orange County area.
"Funded by the Veterans Affairs Office of Academic Affiliations, the program illustrates a commitment to fostering relationships between VA facilities and schools of nursing to leverage academic expertise and VA clinical resources. Office of Academic Affiliations academic nurse residency program positions are funded centrally by OAA trainee funds. The OAA training program is a 12-month program during which trainees have 100% protected time to master the complexities of caring for veterans.
According to Lysaght, the program will ensure that new graduate registered nurses meet or exceed the high standards of care that are owed to the veterans. A total of six positions will be open to pre-licensure graduates from the UCLA nursing school’s bachelor of science in nursing and master’s entry clinical nurse programs. Applicants must be within one year of the date they graduated in order to be eligible for the program.
Studies have shown that residency programs ensure a supervised transition to independent clinical practice and are a key recommendation in the Institute of Medicine’s 2010 report, The Future of Nursing. Competition for nurses is high and studies have shown one way to attract more post-licensure graduates is through a nurse residency program. The program offers new nurses the opportunity to develop confidence and a level of comfort in their nursing practice.
“The program is designed to increase the knowledge of new graduate registered nurses across the continuum of care,” Lysaght said. “A veteran-centric residency program that is evidence based and well-structured can be a solution to mitigating the high rate of turnover for newly licensed registered nurses during their first year as they transition into professional Veterans Affairs nurses.”
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Everywhere has this. They stole the names residency and fellowship years ago. They just call their first month of training as a RN “fellowship” or “residency”.UCLA, VA Greater Los Angeles Healthcare System launch nurse residency program
The program will be the only VA post-licensure residency program in the Los Angeles and Orange County area.newsroom.ucla.edu
"Funded by the Veterans Affairs Office of Academic Affiliations, the program illustrates a commitment to fostering relationships between VA facilities and schools of nursing to leverage academic expertise and VA clinical resources. Office of Academic Affiliations academic nurse residency program positions are funded centrally by OAA trainee funds. The OAA training program is a 12-month program during which trainees have 100% protected time to master the complexities of caring for veterans.
According to Lysaght, the program will ensure that new graduate registered nurses meet or exceed the high standards of care that are owed to the veterans. A total of six positions will be open to pre-licensure graduates from the UCLA nursing school’s bachelor of science in nursing and master’s entry clinical nurse programs. Applicants must be within one year of the date they graduated in order to be eligible for the program.
Studies have shown that residency programs ensure a supervised transition to independent clinical practice and are a key recommendation in the Institute of Medicine’s 2010 report, The Future of Nursing. Competition for nurses is high and studies have shown one way to attract more post-licensure graduates is through a nurse residency program. The program offers new nurses the opportunity to develop confidence and a level of comfort in their nursing practice.
“The program is designed to increase the knowledge of new graduate registered nurses across the continuum of care,” Lysaght said. “A veteran-centric residency program that is evidence based and well-structured can be a solution to mitigating the high rate of turnover for newly licensed registered nurses during their first year as they transition into professional Veterans Affairs nurses.”
This is different than the MIDLEVEL “residency” and “fellowship.”
homebaseddad112818
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So this is a 'residency' program for nurses? Not NPs? This is getting more and more ridiculous. Now NPs are going to be pissed nurses are stepping on their turf
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deleted941485
Two things going on here
1. Confusing patients
2. Delegating clinical work to the lowest common denominator - what’s next the MA will be overseeing your care who will be overseen by the residency trained nurse who will be overseen by the DNP who takes orders from the manager
