UK medical degree and working in the US . . .

[CaliMed217]

I am a US citizen applying to US med schools and I recently thought of applying to schools in London (Imperial, King's, etc) as well. I did a year-long exchange program in London as an undergrad and sorely miss the city!

I've been looking around for info on the net but haven't found answers to all my questions anywhere . . . I was wondering if anyone could help:
1. What are the main disadvantages of going to med school in the UK? I've read that it's difficult to find residency/employment in the US with a foriegn degree. Which leades me to my next question . . .
2. Is it even possible to practice medicine in the US with a degree from the UK? Do you have to take some qualifying exam or something? (I know it's a totally clueless question! )
3. What is the tuition like and does anyone know of any loans available for US citizens studying medicine in the UK? Is it difficult to get loans for UK study?

Any other advice on finacials and practicalities would be greatly appreciated, as there is a wealth of info to sift through . . . it's confusing enough applying to med school here.

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[SYD0910]

2. Is it even possible to practice medicine in the US with a degree from the UK? Do you have to take some qualifying exam or something? (I know it's a totally clueless question! )

To answer your above question, check out this web-site:

http://www.ecfmg.org/faimer/index.html

You will be able to find out if the mentioned UK schools are recognized by US government/agencies.

In order to practice in the US, I think the most important thing is to write your USMLE (all steps), you might also wanna check out this site for detail info.

http://www.ecfmg.org/

Hope it helps. Good luck!

 

[CaliMed217]

Thanks! I'll check out those links.

Hope it helps. Good luck!

 

[SYD0910]

What is the tuition like and does anyone know of any loans available for US citizens studying medicine in the UK? Is it difficult to get loans for UK study?

Hi CaliMed,
I have forgot to let you know earlier regarding financial aid avail. for american students.....you can apply for Federal Stafford Loans to fund your tuition fees in UK. However, depending on you financial status (gross income, tax info... and etc), you might/might not get a full amount loan.
For those who don't get a full amount loan...
there are 2 common choices : Family contribution and/or private bank loan (interest can be high )

You will get more detail info on the FAFSA website.

Cheers!

 

[Ashers]

I am a US citizen applying to US med schools and I recently thought of applying to schools in London (Imperial, King's, etc) as well. I did a year-long exchange program in London as an undergrad and sorely miss the city!

I've been looking around for info on the net but haven't found answers to all my questions anywhere . . . I was wondering if anyone could help:
1. What are the main disadvantages of going to med school in the UK? I've read that it's difficult to find residency/employment in the US with a foriegn degree. Which leades me to my next question . . .
2. Is it even possible to practice medicine in the US with a degree from the UK? Do you have to take some qualifying exam or something? (I know it's a totally clueless question! )
3. What is the tuition like and does anyone know of any loans available for US citizens studying medicine in the UK? Is it difficult to get loans for UK study?

Any other advice on finacials and practicalities would be greatly appreciated, as there is a wealth of info to sift through . . . it's confusing enough applying to med school here.

I know how you feel. I did a study abroad in London and miss it a lot as well. I applied to English schools 2 years in a row. I exceeded King's minimum requirements by a lot, and I was never interviewed there. I was interviewed twice at Imperial College, and didn't get in. I also did a study abroad there and wanted to move back, but my goal was to just stay in London. So basically what the people at Imperial told me was that after completing 5 years there for the MD (it's not 6 in your case if you already have an undergraduate degree), you have to do 2 years of internship in England before even applying to a residency in the US. Also, the US will match all US graduates before going to international schools, even if the graduates happen to be US citizens.

It's also possible to take the USMLE in England. I know a doctor who got her MD in Ireland and didn't have to take the ECFMG because she flew to London for the boards.

Oh yeah, and English schools are very biased against US and Canadian citizens -- they accept less than 2% of the people from both countries who apply. If they take international students, it's generally from countries with a poorer medical education system. Basically, if you want to go to that area, you have to apply to Ireland, maybe northern England (a consultant in England told me it's easier to get into non-London medical school, especially like Liverpool, and maybe even Scotland.)

I wasn't willing to do that --I wanted to live in London, so I applied to med schools in the US. I figured that I'll be able to travel to London later.

As for tuition, look at the individual schools' websites. www.imperial.ac.uk www.kcl.ac.uk I found all of that information there.

I hope this was helpful.

 

[BlondeCookie]

So basically what the people at Imperial told me was that after completing 5 years there for the MD (it's not 6 in your case if you already have an undergraduate degree), you have to do 2 years of internship in England before even applying to a residency in the US. Also, the US will match all US graduates before going to international schools, even if the graduates happen to be US citizens.

Not true. You don't have to do your internship in the UK, before going on to residency in the USA. You can do your internship which is the 1st yr of residency, in the USA. Once you finish med school and get your degree from the UK, you can apply for internship + residency in the USA.

ECFMG is the governing institution for the USA overseeing requirements for all international med grads outside the USA. Call them and ask. They will tell you the same thing.

 

[SYD0910]

You can do your internship which is the 1st yr of residency, in the USA. Once you finish med school and get your degree from the UK, you can apply for internship + residency in the USA.

Hi BCookie,
So does it means if an IMG is doing his/her 1st yr of residency in ANY specialties in the US, the PGY-1 will be = IMG intern year ?

Thanks.

 

[Ashers]

Not true. You don't have to do your internship in the UK, before going on to residency in the USA. You can do your internship which is the 1st yr of residency, in the USA. Once you finish med school and get your degree from the UK, you can apply for internship + residency in the USA.

ECFMG is the governing institution for the USA overseeing requirements for all international med grads outside the USA. Call them and ask. They will tell you the same thing.

That's just what people have told me at Imperial, and when I asked the doctor who got her MD in Ireland, she said she didn't have to take the ECFMG and just took the USMLE in London. I stopped looking into it last year after I was already in US schools.

 

[Waiting4Ganong]

You'd have to be mad to consider coming to UK just to go back to US as soon as you finish med school. Or a dreamer.

With the stats it takes to get into a UK school you could easily get into a US school - which are designed for people who intend to practice in US. UK Schools are designed for people working in UK.

Irish schools are a different matter as generally, if you are applying there, you didn't have the stats to get into a US MD school. They accept large numbers of US students are effectively an option like Carib schools (with less suncream costs?).

There are also practicalities. UK schools graduate in early to mid July. The soonest you'd then get a ECFMG certificate would be Sept. Which means you'd have to wait a year before applying to the US anyway.

The only times in would really make sense for NAs to come to UK schools are:

1) They want to move to, and practice medicine in the UK
2) They want to practice internationally, NGO, tropical med etc and want the extra recognition that goes with UK medicine in some parts of developing world
3) They somehow manage to convince/bribe/trick a lower tier UK school to take them and their only other option is Ireland or Carib (Rare!)

In summary:

"Go to Medical School in the Country you want to Practice in"


I can't help thinking this upsurge in interest in UK schools is after those fake schools catering to US rejects starting springing up in UK (St Chris, Kizigizi? etc.)? These fake squatter schools are now banned by GMC.

In my UK medical school those few with US undergrad educations have stats that would have got them into any US school (3.9 GPA, >40 MCATs etc, several papers, WHO experience etc.). UK isn't a backdoor to medical training for NAs - it is a hard option!

 

[BlondeCookie]

That's just what people have told me at Imperial, and when I asked the doctor who got her MD in Ireland, she said she didn't have to take the ECFMG and just took the USMLE in London. I stopped looking into it last year after I was already in US schools.

What do you mean, "take the ECFMG"? I think you might be confused on some terms here. The ECFMG is an American organization located in Philadelphia. It is not an exam. The USMLE is series of 3 exams that all future American docs have to take, whether they are in a US med school or a med school anywhere in the world.

Basically, the way it works is this. Students attending US med schools who want to take the USMLE, don't have to go through the paperwork and extra red tape to take the USMLE. For med students attending school outside the US, you have to fill out a bunch of forms via the ECFMG. After you get the green light from the ECFMG you can take the 3 steps of the USMLE exams. And there is probably a center in London where you can take the USMLEs. London is huge. It has everything. Plus the USMLE is all computerized now anyway. After you graduate med school, you also have to submit a bunch of forms to the ECFMG so that you can apply for post-graduate training (internship + residency, etc.)

Buckeye, internship in the USA is considered as the first year of residency. In the UK and other countries, internship is not considered as the 1st year of residency. So, as required by the ECFMG all you have to do is graduate med school and pass the first 2 steps of the USMLE, before you can apply for internship and residency in the USA.

 

[SYD0910]

Irish schools are a different matter as generally, if you are applying there, you didn't have the stats to get into a US MD school. They accept large numbers of US students are effectively an option like Carib schools (with less suncream costs?).

Hi Waiting4Ganong,
So what you mean is the Irish schools are not compatible / not up to the standard as compare to med. schools in US or UK ?
There are plenty of NA students that have good stats and eligible to get into US schools are currently doing medicine in Ireland.....I disagree with what you said above....no offense though.

 

[shetland]

Dear Waiting,

My GPA wasnt very competitive, but somehow I got uncond offers to the med schools in London! lol. You dont need MCAT for English schools. Might have to write an exam to get into GEP.

But I agree, it is harder coming back to N America compared with getting a MD from Canada or the US (which is interchangeable). That being said I know lots of UK doctors practicing here. I think it is best if you consult the Royal College of Physicians... about licencing. Also remember that each province and state differes.

Hope that helps. But its not impossible to get into the top London Med Schools, just dont talk about the smog like I did during the interview. lol.

Also PM me if you need more info about the immigration changes on March 7, 2006 with The Home Office and The Department of Health. I got info from them and I also got info from Kings (which I am withdrawing) in reply to that query.

anyone going to Barts and The London Queen Mary?

Cheers X

You'd have to be mad to consider coming to UK just to go back to US as soon as you finish med school. Or a dreamer.

With the stats it takes to get into a UK school you could easily get into a US school - which are designed for people who intend to practice in US. UK Schools are designed for people working in UK.

Irish schools are a different matter as generally, if you are applying there, you didn't have the stats to get into a US MD school. They accept large numbers of US students are effectively an option like Carib schools (with less suncream costs?).

There are also practicalities. UK schools graduate in early to mid July. The soonest you'd then get a ECFMG certificate would be Sept. Which means you'd have to wait a year before applying to the US anyway.

The only times in would really make sense for NAs to come to UK schools are:

1) They want to move to, and practice medicine in the UK
2) They want to practice internationally, NGO, tropical med etc and want the extra recognition that goes with UK medicine in some parts of developing world
3) They somehow manage to convince/bribe/trick a lower tier UK school to take them and their only other option is Ireland or Carib (Rare!)

In summary:

"Go to Medical School in the Country you want to Practice in"


I can't help thinking this upsurge in interest in UK schools is after those fake schools catering to US rejects starting springing up in UK (St Chris, Kizigizi? etc.)? These fake squatter schools are now banned by GMC.

In my UK medical school those few with US undergrad educations have stats that would have got them into any US school (3.9 GPA, >40 MCATs etc, several papers, WHO experience etc.). UK isn't a backdoor to medical training for NAs - it is a hard option!

 

[Waiting4Ganong]

Dear Waiting,

My GPA wasnt very competitive, but somehow I got uncond offers to the med schools in London! lol.

Have you posted your stats already? If not, can you do so? Which London schools gave you unconditional offers?

 

[Waiting4Ganong]

And congrats on the acceptance!

 

[shetland]

Ashers,

Did you apply to the GEP programs? Its 4 years after you have your undergrad. 5 years for normal entry. We dont have MD in England. We have MBBS or BM's. With regards to selection, they treat all internationals the same (ideally). I think you have to prove that you really want to go there unlike having it as a fall back plan. Good luck, yah?

Cheers

I know how you feel. I did a study abroad in London and miss it a lot as well. I applied to English schools 2 years in a row. I exceeded King's minimum requirements by a lot, and I was never interviewed there. I was interviewed twice at Imperial College, and didn't get in. I also did a study abroad there and wanted to move back, but my goal was to just stay in London. So basically what the people at Imperial told me was that after completing 5 years there for the MD (it's not 6 in your case if you already have an undergraduate degree), you have to do 2 years of internship in England before even applying to a residency in the US. Also, the US will match all US graduates before going to international schools, even if the graduates happen to be US citizens.

It's also possible to take the USMLE in England. I know a doctor who got her MD in Ireland and didn't have to take the ECFMG because she flew to London for the boards.

Oh yeah, and English schools are very biased against US and Canadian citizens -- they accept less than 2% of the people from both countries who apply. If they take international students, it's generally from countries with a poorer medical education system. Basically, if you want to go to that area, you have to apply to Ireland, maybe northern England (a consultant in England told me it's easier to get into non-London medical school, especially like Liverpool, and maybe even Scotland.)

I wasn't willing to do that --I wanted to live in London, so I applied to med schools in the US. I figured that I'll be able to travel to London later.

As for tuition, look at the individual schools' websites. www.imperial.ac.uk www.kcl.ac.uk I found all of that information there.

I hope this was helpful.

 

[shetland]

And congrats on the acceptance!

Thank you darling. I PM my stats. What college in Oxford are you in?? Are you done?? xx

 

[dr strangelove]

Hi Waiting4Ganong,
So what you mean is the Irish schools are not compatible / not up to the standard as compare to med. schools in US or UK ?
There are plenty of NA students that have good stats and eligible to get into US schools are currently doing medicine in Ireland.....I disagree with what you said above....no offense though.

I don't think he means that Irish schools aren't as good as UK/American ones. He's just saying that they've easier entry requirements (for foreign students).

 

[Waiting4Ganong]

I don't think he means that Irish schools aren't as good as UK/American ones. He's just saying that they've easier entry requirements (for foreign students).

Exactly!

 

[Waiting4Ganong]

Shetland doesn't want to post her stats but I think I'm not giving too much away by saying she'd have been competitive applying to medical school in most places!

 

[BlondeCookie]

I don't think he means that Irish schools aren't as good as UK/American ones. He's just saying that they've easier entry requirements (for foreign students).

That's what he says, but I disagree.

 

[Ashers]

Ashers,

Did you apply to the GEP programs? Its 4 years after you have your undergrad. 5 years for normal entry. We dont have MD in England. We have MBBS or BM's. With regards to selection, they treat all internationals the same (ideally). I think you have to prove that you really want to go there unlike having it as a fall back plan. Good luck, yah?

Cheers

I applied to it at King's and a few other programs, but the only uni to interview me was Imperial, and they said if I was accepted, I could graduate in 5 instead of 6 years. The US schools I applied to the second year I applied were my backups, and I let Imperial know that.

 

[Waiting4Ganong]

That's what he says, but I disagree.

Based on what?

 

[BlondeCookie]

I applied to it at King's and a few other programs, but the only uni to interview me was Imperial, and they said if I was accepted, I could graduate in 5 instead of 6 years. The US schools I applied to the second year I applied were my backups, and I let Imperial know that.

ANY med school in the UK (accredited by GMC) is quality education. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. So, if you get accepted to Imperial you would be getting to get a superb education. Good luck.

 

[shetland]

I applied to it at King's and a few other programs, but the only uni to interview me was Imperial, and they said if I was accepted, I could graduate in 5 instead of 6 years. The US schools I applied to the second year I applied were my backups, and I let Imperial know that.

Check your UCAS track. I hear from the medicalschoolguide that the deadline should be around now to give ppl offers. Good Luck! Keep me up to date.

 

[Ashers]

Check your UCAS track. I hear from the medicalschoolguide that the deadline should be around now to give ppl offers. Good Luck! Keep me up to date.

I'm already in med school in the States. I applied in 2003 and 2004 to begin the course for 2004 and 2005 (earlier I might've said the years I interviewed -- which were 2004 and 2005), so I gave up after 2 years of trying. The only time I applied concurrently with American schools was in 2004. I can always get an away rotation and then try for a fellowship later on. Thanks for the good luck wishes anyway -- I'll just transfer the thought to my classes here.

 

[shetland]

...

 

[rgerwin]

Which schools?

Dear Waiting,

My GPA wasnt very competitive, but somehow I got uncond offers to the med schools in London! lol. You dont need MCAT for English schools. Might have to write an exam to get into GEP.

But I agree, it is harder coming back to N America compared with getting a MD from Canada or the US (which is interchangeable). That being said I know lots of UK doctors practicing here. I think it is best if you consult the Royal College of Physicians... about licencing. Also remember that each province and state differes.

Hope that helps. But its not impossible to get into the top London Med Schools, just dont talk about the smog like I did during the interview. lol.

Also PM me if you need more info about the immigration changes on March 7, 2006 with The Home Office and The Department of Health. I got info from them and I also got info from Kings (which I am withdrawing) in reply to that query.

anyone going to Barts and The London Queen Mary?

Cheers X

 

[shetland]

Which schools?

Barts (Barts and The London Queen Mary), Kings, Peterhouse college (Cambridge), and Southampton. Hope this helps.