UF vs Einstein vs USF

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topher46

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In the end I really want to attend the program that will take me furthest in my career, i.e. get me the most competitive residency possible. I am looking to go into a surgical field, most likely CT, neuro, general or peds. I am also interested in academic practice as opposed to private. Which of the three would give me the biggest edge and why (research, clinical experience, curriculum, etc.)?

Thanks in advance :)

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UF=AE>>USF for academic reputation. However the most important factor is to choose the school that you think you would be happiest at. Many premeds have some idea of what they want to specialize in, but most change their minds during med school.
 
Thanks Reddoc. Luckily, the happiness factor is well taken care of at all of these schools. I already declined all of the schools that I thought I would be unhappy at so these remaining schools are the ones where I believe I will be comfortable. I have family that live nearby at Einstein and USF and I've carved out a comfortable niche at UF where I did my undergrad. Plus, my family is only an hour and a half away from UF. For that reason, I've narrowed my search down to program quality. All are P/F or H/P/F and comparable in price for me as well.
 
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Thanks Reddoc. Luckily, the happiness factor is well taken care of at all of these schools. I already declined all of the schools that I thought I would be unhappy at so these remaining schools are the ones where I believe I will be comfortable. I have family that live nearby at Einstein and USF and I've carved out a comfortable niche at UF where I did my undergrad. Plus, my family is only an hour and a half away from UF. For that reason, I've narrowed my search down to program quality. All are P/F or H/P/F and comparable in price for me as well.

I'm sure you've heard of this already, but thought I would put it on here for those that don't know how fast USF Health is moving these days.

http://camls-us.org/

And as far as being student friendly I think USF out of those 3 tend to lead the way. I did go to UF for UG btw...
 
Sorry i don't know anything about UF or USF and im biased toward Einstein b/c i go there, but if you want to go to residency at any of the big academic universities in the northeast Einstein really seems to be your best bet.

I have to say Einstein couldn't be more student friendly with a great national rep no matter where you go. Plus research here is amazing since you seem to perhaps be gunning for something academic or competitive. Admin bends over backwards for us, every thing we've wanted changed this year was changed (our gym is now open on saturdays!). At first when i dropped my other acceptances I got a little nervous that I made the wrong choice (coming from California) now I can't believe how lucky I was that i just sort of had a good feeling and everything worked out better then I could've imagined.

That being said if either of those schools are your home state schools and will be 20k cheaper per/yr.... or if you want to match residencies at those institutions b/c of family or location specifically then that would be something else to think about. Otherwise come to Einstein, i promise you'll love it.
 
Can you expand more ont eh curriculum style (P/F or graded?? Traditional or organ system integrated curriculum or PBL??? Tertiary care centers or community based hospitals?? I'm guessing tertiary care proper academic hospitals??)

I feel like both are equal but in this case I'd choose AECOM regardless of price in a heartbeat based on its location in NYC (being in a real city vs. a college town is important to me and I loved the NE when I was in boston and visited NYC). I also like that AECOM is close to Mt. Sinai, Cornell, Columbia, and NYU and 4 hours away from harvard, probably like 2 hours away from Yale and a few hours from UPenn. Can't beat being in the middle of the NE or California where research and academic powerhouses are in high number.

But if cost prevents them from going there or the being against big city chaos I don't think it will hurt to go to UF because they are a big reputed academic institution in Florida that is also mid tier ranked and have a lot of well known programs affiliated with them.

I've talked at length about Einstein before but ill just say why i love it and answer your questions:

We are P/F first two years, no class rank. passing is 65%, although our class averages for exams are about low to mid 80's. Cirriculum is a mixed of traditional and organ systems. You have some basic sciences like anatomy, histology, and this huge first year course called MCFM (its a mix of genetics, immunology, biochem topics that they integrate into one course). After that it switches to organ systems half way through the year, starting with CV and renal. Case conferences and the usual stuff. Class time is 2 and a 1/2 hours worth of lecture in the morning usually 9-1145 with a 15 minute coffee break in the middle. Then a one to two hour lunch then some activity in the afternoon, a case conference, going to clinical sites, when anatomy hits you have labs scheduled, and some histo labs when you are taking histo. Get out usually no later then 3pm some and maybe one day a week when you are at your clinical sites it is until 3:30.

You take two courses at once, an exam once a month, before each exam you have study days off plus the course leaders always put together a review packet and do one review session for the whole course.
Was told USMLE ave. is low 230's with a pass rate of 99% (unfortunately there is always one person that has to screw up a perfect 100%).

Einstein has everything in terms of clinical sites, we are literally attached to Jacobi and Weiler which is nice b/c if you want to shadow or if you choose to do your rotations there they are just a 5 minute walk from housing. While Jacobi is county (trauma center for the bronx... ie freakin nuts) and Weiler is a private Einstein owned hospital, Weiler also has a huge underserved pt. population... just to give you an idea, i was on the Ob floor at Weiler one night and all like 15 patients were full term NONE had ever had prenatal care. Our university hospital is Montefiore, which is not just one hospital but basically is made up of two hospitals plus many different clinical sites all around the bronx (including tertiary care centers). Besides that we also have BI in Manhattan - if you do rotations down there you get a free apartment for the length of the whole rotation.
Besides that we also use St. barnabas, LIJ (we will continue to do so even with Hostra since they have many sites), bronx psychiatric hospital which is down the street, and one more stroke rehab hospital that is down the street too.

Coming from California it was nice for once i didn't need a car. Einstein provides free shuttles or taxi rides to clinical sites, express bus and buses to train stop right in front of our housing. If you want a car you can park it in a covered garage attached to the housing for 85/month (pretty cheap for NY) or you can street park it. Anyone who knows anything about the Bronx and NY knows the area the school is a very safe area compared to other big cities.

Housing hands down is the best in the country in terms of what you get for your money.

People always ask how is the Jewish feel, and sincerely as a non-Jew this place is great, you will notice the Jewish influence (ie kosher cafeteria, all the damn holidays you get off, usually classes out by noon on friday) but i don't think it bothers any of us non-Jewish people. And yes we make fun of it all the time in our skit night and its all good humor.

Here is our skit night:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=AD7ECAFE5A675D62
Was lots of fun, lots of drinking, the professors came up and not only were in the films but did live skits as well.

But yes... again if Florida saves you 100k I would definitely think about the toal cost you will incur. Einstein does give awesome fin. aid with scholarship though, I know from personal experience.

Good luck with your decision and send me a pm if you have any questions.
 
Thank you very much for all the input. Shands is definitely a big plus for UF as I hear it gets a diverse range of pathology. AECOM's reputation for research and relations with the other NYC schools is really a great advantage. Does anybody have any info about USF? I heard they had a pretty impressive match list for 2011.
 
USF is a pretty awesome school, and had a VERY impressive match list this year. According to the slide show that they present during interviews, they are the fastest growing school in terms of research funding in the nation. They have many exciting things going on right now, and are very invested in growth and student happiness. They have hired in some big guns from around the country, and I really feel that they are silently creeping up the ranks. I was much more impressed with USF than UF, but that is just me. Go where you will be happiest, and the rest will follow. IMO UF is very much a "good ole boy's club" and very set in their ways while USF is forward moving and very willing to admit if something is not working. I would not be surprised if USF surpasses UF in ranking in years to come. This is obviously just my opinion, and you should form your own and go where YOU felt the best fit.
 
zebralong's post on AECOM is great and is a good measure of what you're looking for...his/her reasoning is why I chose not to go to NYC (and my fiancee begged me to stay in Florida so she could get out of NYC).

hopefully someone from USF and UF can step in and comment on competitiveness. I strongly believe that the second hand knowledge that floats around here tends to cast more opinionated information than factual.

if you have any ties (professionally) that would lend one way or the other maybe that could help in your decision-making?
 
i think no matter what, OP, things are going to be great for you...you've narrowed it down to 3 great schools! :thumbup:
 
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AECOM > UF >= USF

Honestly, if you have a chance to live in NY at this age, take it. It may be a once in a lifetime opportunity. AECOM's curriculum is great and they have excellent research opportunities. And of course, it's NY. I would put UF slightly ahead of USF. All three are great schools with great matchlists. Can't really go wrong with any of them, but personally, if I could live in NY, I would. Good luck!
 
I'm sure you've heard of this already, but thought I would put it on here for those that don't know how fast USF Health is moving these days.

http://camls-us.org/

And as far as being student friendly I think USF out of those 3 tend to lead the way. I did go to UF for UG btw...

Thanks for the link tobeatrev. I hadn't seen a link to this particular site. The CAMLS look very impressive but I wonder when its supposed to be completed and what role it will play for medical students. The website didn't get that specific.

USF is a pretty awesome school, and had a VERY impressive match list this year. According to the slide show that they present during interviews, they are the fastest growing school in terms of research funding in the nation. They have many exciting things going on right now, and are very invested in growth and student happiness. They have hired in some big guns from around the country, and I really feel that they are silently creeping up the ranks. I was much more impressed with USF than UF, but that is just me. Go where you will be happiest, and the rest will follow. IMO UF is very much a "good ole boy's club" and very set in their ways while USF is forward moving and very willing to admit if something is not working. I would not be surprised if USF surpasses UF in ranking in years to come. This is obviously just my opinion, and you should form your own and go where YOU felt the best fit.

I was really impressed by USF's match list this year, especially the surgical residencies which I'm interested in (UMich, Baylor, Emory, UTSW for plastics). Any idea as to why there seemed to be such a jump in the quality of these matched in particular? Or maybe just a particularly good group of students (obviously i guess)?
 
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I was really impressed by USF's match list this year, especially the surgical residencies which I'm interested in (UMich, Baylor, Emory, UTSW for plastics). Any idea as to why there seemed to be such a jump in the quality of these matched in particular? Or maybe just a particularly good group of students (obviously i guess)?

The quality of students obviously plays into the match quite a bit, but I truly think that USF is a very quickly up and coming school and many other schools are taking notice of that. The clinical experiences offered in 3rd and 4th year at USF are really great, and in speaking to current students, they have said that they have been praised extensively on away rotations. PM me and I can send you some contact information for current students if you want to talk to them. There is also some pretty great research coming out of USF lately, and I am sure some med students got some publications off of that research. Since you are interested in surgery, you should look into the new CAMLS training center (huge surgical training and simulation center being built downtown). Like I said in my previous post, USF is working really hard to rise through the ranks (and from match lists and research dollars, it truly looks like they are succeeding!).

Link to CAMLS info: http://www.83degreesmedia.com/features/camls032211.aspx it will be used for med student training...the mini site at TGH currently is used in surgical rotations.
 
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Out of curiousity, are you a current applicant to USF and am I to guess this is your top choice? BTW thanks for responding to my posts even though I got the rejection right around that time that it was too late to act on. it was thoughtful of you.

I will say in your own personal case agility, USF used to love nurses as did Umiami when it came to med applicants cuz of their maturity and sense of understanding of clinical medicine. The funny thing was one of the surgery matches alluded to above that are coming out of USF this year happens to be a former RN who was an OR RN for many years before deciding go to back to med school. Schools were highly impressed by his previous nursing background combined with strong GPA and decent MCAT when he came back to school. This experience might help you a lot at FAU med too. If you haven't already I'd use one of your updates at FAU med to point out how you are an interactive learner and can show this through teamwork you've shown as a nurse. It was the advice an accepted student gave me.

Good luck with your apps.

Case Western loves nurses as well.. just fyi =) an old nurse here as well. I didn't end up choosing Case or Miami but both gave good scholarships due to healthcare related work - so if you are a nurse i'd recommend applying to both. I think Case ended up with two icu nurses this year class of 2014 (ED here).
 
Yes, I am a current applicant to USF (along with about 20 other schools ha ha), and USF recently jumped to the very top of my list. I REALLY got a great vibe from their interview day, and it seems like a great fit for me. Case is on my list as well, and is fairly high up there (along with UMich, FAU, and UCF). I have had a TON of positive feedback about my nursing experiences, and I really feel that it has helped me in every interview. I really feel that any "real world" experience is looked upon highly by admissions comittees...especially real world healthcare experiences :). Thanks for the positive thoughts from both of you!!
 
OP, can you attend the second looks for all three of them? That might help you make your final decision. But on the whole, if you'd be happy at any of the three, and there is no significant difference financially, then you should think about which location you'd like best, and go with your gut feeling concerning fit. Everyone's priorities will be different, so you'll get different answers depending on what that person values and wants in a med school.

Granted that this was in 2005, but I applied to and was accepted by all three of these schools, and each had its own distinct feel. As a physician scientist (I'm PhD-to-MD), I felt that the research opportunities were better at UF or AECOM, although it wouldn't be impossible to do research at USF. In terms of geography, Tampa by far won out over Gainesville or NYC for me. I'm way too old for the whole college town lifestyle (started med school at age 31), and while NYC is fun to visit, I don't think I'd enjoy living there. As a nontrad, I felt that USF and AECOM had more diversity in their student bodies, while UF's class seemed much younger to me. Of course, if you're a trad, that might be a positive to you.

Overall, you can't go wrong with any of these schools. Again, if you can, try to attend the second looks for all three, and just go with what makes you feel the warmest and fuzziest.

Best of luck. :)
 
OP, can you attend the second looks for all three of them? That might help you make your final decision. But on the whole, if you'd be happy at any of the three, and there is no significant difference financially, then you should think about which location you'd like best, and go with your gut feeling concerning fit. Everyone's priorities will be different, so you'll get different answers depending on what that person values and wants in a med school.

Granted that this was in 2005, but I applied to and was accepted by all three of these schools, and each had its own distinct feel. As a physician scientist (I'm PhD-to-MD), I felt that the research opportunities were better at UF or AECOM, although it wouldn't be impossible to do research at USF. In terms of geography, Tampa by far won out over Gainesville or NYC for me. I'm way too old for the whole college town lifestyle (started med school at age 31), and while NYC is fun to visit, I don't think I'd enjoy living there. As a nontrad, I felt that USF and AECOM had more diversity in their student bodies, while UF's class seemed much younger to me. Of course, if you're a trad, that might be a positive to you.

Overall, you can't go wrong with any of these schools. Again, if you can, try to attend the second looks for all three, and just go with what makes you feel the warmest and fuzziest.

Best of luck. :)

I will get to go to the USF and UF second looks. AE doesn't have one and I don't think I could afford the trip even if they did. I'm a trad and although I do want to do some research I don't think I would the MD-PhD route because I value clinical practice above all else. But I do realize the value of research both individually and in the scientific community.
I'm a Florida boy, born and raised, and for the longest time I dreamed of going out of state, although recently I've sort of realized just how good it is here in the sunshine state.
As you suggested, I think I will be able to make a better decision after second look.
 
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I have heard a lot about USF's early clinical exposure, however, apparently there are no major tertiary care centers like Shands which serves a pretty massive area as does the G-ville VA. Does the quantity and quality of USF's clinical sites necessarily make up for the quality of UF's two major ones? I've had a hard time understanding how to assess the relative value of a clinical training site. Could anybody maybe shed some light on this?
 
I have heard a lot about USF's early clinical exposure, however, apparently there are no major tertiary care centers like Shands which serves a pretty massive area as does the G-ville VA. Does the quantity and quality of USF's clinical sites necessarily make up for the quality of UF's two major ones? I've had a hard time understanding how to assess the relative value of a clinical training site. Could anybody maybe shed some light on this?

I'll comment on the VA thing by saying the Gainesville one pales in comparison (in terms of volume) to the 2 that USF works with. I've been to several VA's and the Tampa area ones are about as busy as it gets.

Just to piggyback on what Guju said there's also new partnership with The Villages (yes, I know, some may laugh but its one of the largest retirement communities in the whole country), Lehigh Valley (which is supposed to offer some training options as well as the SELECT program) and the HCA network.

So in the end, I think that USF's clinical exposure might be the best in the state at this point...there's just so many options and partnerships now. If this is what you're looking for, take a look at some of these.
 
I will get to go to the USF and UF second looks. AE doesn't have one and I don't think I could afford the trip even if they did. I'm a trad and although I do want to do some research I don't think I would the MD-PhD route because I value clinical practice above all else. But I do realize the value of research both individually and in the scientific community.
I'm a Florida boy, born and raised, and for the longest time I dreamed of going out of state, although recently I've sort of realized just how good it is here in the sunshine state.
As you suggested, I think I will be able to make a better decision after second look.
You'll get good clinical training at any of them, so I wouldn't worry about that. In your case, I would just pick based on geography and fit. And keep in mind too that this isn't your one and only chance to get out of state. You can always go somewhere else for residency.
 
I just got the financial aid info from Einstein and I can't really justify an extra 20k/year. Looks I'll be staying in the sunshine state. Anybody yhave any more input about UF or USF?
I'm leaning towards USF after the second look. I definitely get a real good vibe from their faculty and staff, and the CAMLS building and other renovations they're doing are very exciting. My only concern is whether I might be limiting myself come residency time compared to UF when it comes to some of the more competitive fields. Is this a legitimate concern or has USF more or less leveled the playing field?
 
http://health.usf.edu/medicine/select/index.html

I am sure you already made up your mind (classes start soon), but for those who come to this thread, check the link above. USF has a fairly new program, SELECT, where you spend first 2 years in Tampa and then you go to Leing Valley Health Network in Allentown, PA. Sounds like a pretty cool deal!
 
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