UCLA or Cornell

[skyhyp2009]

Normally, I wouldn't be posting this up and try to use the search function to find my own information. And I've been able to shorten my list down to these two schools.

And I have seen some past threads already, but there was only one thread made relatively recent (one last year). The ones before that were 2006 and 2003. I'm not sure if the information there applies...so...here I am asking for some opinions...because I'm really torn.

Few things first:
family/residency: I'm a California resident, but have stayed in the Northeast for the last 4 years. I have family in California, but don't really care one way or another about distance from family during medical school (although it'll be pretty important for me in residency and beyond). Also, I suspect many people will ask me where I want to go for residency. Honestly, I don't know. By then, staying close to family will be important, but there's a 50-50 chance my family will move from SoCal to NY in the next four years.

prestige: since this almost always comes up in discussion between medical schools. I went to an Ivy for undergrad and realized that the prestige is overrated. So for medical school, prestige is not a factor. I just want a good education...and enough "prestige" in whatever school I choose to go to so that I won't have doors slammed shut in my face. With that standard, both are more than okay.

weather/other factors: I'm not that much of a beach person, but I really like Cali weather (missed it for the last 5 years =/). Honestly, in the end, that one factor might make me choose UCLA over Cornell. But I don't want weather to be the deciding factor of why I choose a certain medical school.

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Information about the differences in the hospital system, curriculum, student life, competitiveness, and match lists would be greatly appreciated. Also, I'm fine with this thread becoming a flaming war between avid socal advocates and nyc advocates (just kidding...but I'd like to see what it is about the two cities that people like and compare them with my own experiences in la and nyc)

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[karayraisu]

I went to an Ivy for undergrad and realized that the prestige is overrated.

This. is one of the biggest lessons that I've gotten out of my 4 years in ugrad. I can't agree with you more.

 

[skyhyp2009]

bump

 

[Elhers]

I'm going to have to disagree. I thought the ivy brand would have a negligible impact on my college experience, but it has turned out to be fairly significant for me. the professors, training, peers, expectations, etc are extraordinary like other schools, but the social clubs and groups has made my ivy experience remarkable. In a world made through connections, I think the Cornell ivy name carries significant weight, especially if you went to a different undergrad ivy. Therefore, I would without a doubt have picked an ivy (had I gotten into one, which I did not).

Both are fantastic schools, but in my opinion, maintaining your ivy pedigree (sounds super snobbish) puts Cornell over UCLA.

I'm prob going to get flamed

 

[synthase]

These are both amazing schools, so your decision should really be about fit more than prestige (high for both anyway). It sounds like you will be happier living in Cali, closer to family, and more likely to stay there for residency and beyond. Though matching to a program in Cali from Cornell won't be difficult, the process will be easier and your chances higher matching to a Cali program from UCLA.

 

[CrimsonCanada04]

first, let me state that i think UCLA is a great school and has a reputable hospital system. BUT i would have to recommend cornell over UCLA. here's why: i have a friend who goes to a UC school, and california received another $1.4 billion in budget cuts to the public university system this year with the new governor. I believe that makes it a total of over $500 million directly to the UC system. here is how students have been affected

-over 30% increase in tuition in both 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 school years. Funding from the state has now been lowered to 1998 levels, so students have to contribute more
-libraries are forced to close earlier or shut down entirely. e.g. UCSD had to shut down their medical school library in the Hillcrest hospital.
-less funding available for summer research, projects, and organizations- this can translate to either less money per student or less students can participate
-parking ticket penalties are extremely high, and the police are apparently very effective at issuing them. but it probably won't be an issue for you if you do not drive
-professors and postdocs were forced last year to take a 8% paycut, not sure what this means for you
-layoff of nonessential staff= less support or higher ratio of students to advisors
-worst part is that the ca budget is supposed to stay this way for a while

plus, cornell has a class size of ~101 students, and ucla has 121 (and about 30 more if you include the other programs).

ok, i'm not sure how this will directly affect medical students at ucla, or even if it does, if this is something that is important to you, so take what i say with a grain of salt.

both are great places, and you can't go wrong with either. good luck

 

[skyhyp2009]

I'm going to have to disagree. I thought the ivy brand would have a negligible impact on my college experience, but it has turned out to be fairly significant for me. the professors, training, peers, expectations, etc are extraordinary like other schools, but the social clubs and groups has made my ivy experience remarkable. In a world made through connections, I think the Cornell ivy name carries significant weight, especially if you went to a different undergrad ivy. Therefore, I would without a doubt have picked an ivy (had I gotten into one, which I did not).

Both are fantastic schools, but in my opinion, maintaining your ivy pedigree (sounds super snobbish) puts Cornell over UCLA.

I'm prob going to get flamed

I do agree that the Ivy name carries significant weight and definitely see why people might like the Ivy experience. As you said, the social clubs, groups, and the types of people there make it worthwhile for many (in fact...for most I would say). But...it's just not for me.

These are both amazing schools, so your decision should really be about fit more than prestige (high for both anyway). It sounds like you will be happier living in Cali, closer to family, and more likely to stay there for residency and beyond. Though matching to a program in Cali from Cornell won't be difficult, the process will be easier and your chances higher matching to a Cali program from UCLA.

Maybe I should have mentioned this...most of my family is in Cali, but most of my close friends are in NYC. And my family may move the NYC in the next few years although where my family ends up will probably be affected by my choice.

---

In past threads, people have mentioned that Cornell is on a High Pass/Pass/Fail system and UCLA is on a 4 year Pass/Fail system. Can anyone confirm this? Also, Cornell seems to be a lot more PBL than UCLA...

 

[karayraisu]

In past threads, people have mentioned that Cornell is on a High Pass/Pass/Fail system and UCLA is on a 4 year Pass/Fail system. Can anyone confirm this? Also, Cornell seems to be a lot more PBL than UCLA...

Cornell switched over to P/F very recently (last year?). But their P/F is not a true P/F, since students are still internally ranked during preclinical years. IMO, this completely defeats the point of P/F.

Cornell is very PBL heavy...they are very proud of their PBL system. Class most days from 8 (or 9?) AM till 1 PM. Great if you're a morning person and want afternoons off.

 

[skyhyp2009]

Cornell switched over to P/F very recently (last year?). But their P/F is not a true P/F, since students are still internally ranked during preclinical years. IMO, this completely defeats the point of P/F.

Cornell is very PBL heavy...they are very proud of their PBL system. Class most days from 8 (or 9?) AM till 1 PM. Great if you're a morning person and want afternoons off.

Thanks

 

[snookiez]

first, let me state that i think UCLA is a great school and has a reputable hospital system. BUT i would have to recommend cornell over UCLA. here's why: i have a friend who goes to a UC school, and california received another $1.4 billion in budget cuts to the public university system this year with the new governor. I believe that makes it a total of over $500 million directly to the UC system. here is how students have been affected

-over 30% increase in tuition in both 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 school years. Funding from the state has now been lowered to 1998 levels, so students have to contribute more
-libraries are forced to close earlier or shut down entirely. e.g. UCSD had to shut down their medical school library in the Hillcrest hospital.
-less funding available for summer research, projects, and organizations- this can translate to either less money per student or less students can participate
-parking ticket penalties are extremely high, and the police are apparently very effective at issuing them. but it probably won't be an issue for you if you do not drive
-professors and postdocs were forced last year to take a 8% paycut, not sure what this means for you
-layoff of nonessential staff= less support or higher ratio of students to advisors
-worst part is that the ca budget is supposed to stay this way for a while

plus, cornell has a class size of ~101 students, and ucla has 121 (and about 30 more if you include the other programs).

ok, i'm not sure how this will directly affect medical students at ucla, or even if it does, if this is something that is important to you, so take what i say with a grain of salt.

both are great places, and you can't go wrong with either. good luck

This along with the fact that most of your friends and, likely, family will end up in NY has me rooting that you go to cornell. That support system is vital for your sanity

and while I agree that the ivy badging may not be as important as you initially thought, I am sure that the connections you made and the associated prestige will become more important with time and hindsight. Cornell is too good to pass up.

 

[UpperEastSide]

you have no idea how envious i am of you. And i would choose Cornell, not for name, but my simple love of this school, the facilities (Sloan kettering, Rockerfellar, New York Presbyterian, Columbia) the location, and the icy brand don't hurt. UCLA is great too, don't know much about it to love it as much as cornell.

 

[kjamess]

Cornell switched over to P/F very recently (last year?). But their P/F is not a true P/F, since students are still internally ranked during preclinical years. IMO, this completely defeats the point of P/F.

I've seen this 'pre-clinical internal ranking' claim repeated multiple times on SDN, but this isnt true according to a friend who goes there. Apparently its just the third year thats used; however, they do use the preclinical yrs for AOA purposes (which is what a good portion of p/f schools do as well).

 

[karayraisu]

I've seen this 'pre-clinical internal ranking' claim repeated multiple times on SDN, but this isnt true according to a friend who goes there. Apparently its just the third year thats used; however, they do use the preclinical yrs for AOA purposes (which is what a good portion of p/f schools do as well).

A M4 told me this during the interview day. M1s and M2s seem to disagree (more said there was internal ranking, others don't know) when I asked them about this during the interview day. I'm just choosing to err on the safe side.

 

[redlight]

you have no idea how envious i am of you. And i would choose Cornell, not for name, but my simple love of this school, the facilities (Sloan kettering, Rockerfellar, New York Presbyterian, Columbia) the location, and the icy brand don't hurt. UCLA is great too, don't know much about it to love it as much as cornell.

this. both are great schools, but this would be a no-brainer for me.

i'd only pick ucla if it was significantly cheaper or if i had intentions of applying for residency predominantly on the west coast.

 

[kjamess]

A M4 told me this during the interview day. M1s and M2s seem to disagree (more said there was internal ranking, others don't know) when I asked them about this during the interview day. I'm just choosing to err on the safe side.

I guess a better question is what they mean by internal ranking, b/c keeping tabs on preclinical yrs and using it for AOA purposes is technically 'internal ranking'. I dunno, my friend spoke to the dean so..

 

[skyhyp2009]

I guess a better question is what they mean by internal ranking, b/c keeping tabs on preclinical yrs and using it for AOA purposes is technically 'internal ranking'. I dunno, my friend spoke to the dean so..

Internal ranking seems to be a big topic.....I suppose this is a general question to any medical students that happen to pass by...but does ranking vs no ranking affect quality of life that much?

 

[mdeast]

Internal ranking seems to be a big topic.....I suppose this is a general question to any medical students that happen to pass by...but does ranking vs no ranking affect quality of life that much?

I think it does. My school has no internal ranking and no AOA and I couldn't imagine the alternative. It just takes a lot of the stress out of the process.

I think it helps created camaraderie between the class and also helps you maintain a social life and balance outside school. Stressing to get a 90% or above on every exam to maintain Honors or a top quartile ranking would probably make my social life suffer a lot. Plus, most of the material you learn as a MS1 is not super relevant to boards....and often clinical practice. Or, if it is, will be forgotten whether you scored a 90% or a 70% and have to be re-learned during your boards studying time anyway.

For top schools it also makes a lot more sense. Everyone here is brilliant and to try and differentiate between us seems counterintuitive....even a bottom quartile student here is probably ridiculously impressive (to be honest, this is the case at MOST medical schools in the US).

For me, it's given me the stance that the first two years of medical school are for "passing", learning the material you think will be relevant as a physician, and scoring well on the boards in order to place yourself in line for the residency you're contemplating.

I hate the idea of being in a situation where the pursuit of understanding the material is to get a good numerical grade and increase your rank. It just seems not in the original spirit that drew me to medicine- to help others through learning how to help them.

 

[karayraisu]

^ That said, there are many other schools too with pure P/F, no internal ranking! OP, the other choice is one of them ; )

(schools without AOA are harder to find among the top schools...Yale, Stanford, and Harvard are a few examples (Penn, Hopkins, WashU...etc. have it). UCSF and UCLA both have them, but UCSF's membership is determined via third year grades. I'm not sure what the system is for UCLA but their Dean seems to be pretty firm about the fact that they don't rank internally for preclinical years during interview day)

 

[drizzt3117]

FWIW, you'll find the cultures at these two different programs vastly different. I would suggest that your clinical experience at UCLA would be... let's say... a bit more benign than you'd see at Cornell.

 

[hawaiianpizza]

FWIW, you'll find the cultures at these two different programs vastly different. I would suggest that your clinical experience at UCLA would be... let's say... a bit more benign than you'd see at Cornell.

drizzt,
could you please elaborate on this? i'm facing the same decision as the OP, and the issue of culture in the clinical setting is really important to me! important enough to break my silence on these forums
thanks!

 

[dbeast]

drizzt,
could you please elaborate on this? i'm facing the same decision as the OP, and the issue of culture in the clinical setting is really important to me! important enough to break my silence on these forums
thanks!

UCLA = super fancy hospital in one of the nicest neighborhoods in all of LA.

Anywhere in NYC has a lot more... action... so to speak.

To be fair, though, UCLA does have some affiliate hospitals in rougher parts of town but most of your training will be in Westwood.

I think that's what drizzt was getting at, unless he means that the faculty at Cornell are way more student-friendly?

 

[NickNaylor]

Cornell does internally rank its students into quartiles for the pre-clinical years. This came from a M2 that hosted me when I interviewed there. I agree that it seems to defeat the purpose of P/F - not entirely, but why do P/F and then continue with rankings?

 

[dbeast]

Cornell does internally rank its students into quartiles for the pre-clinical years. This came from a M2 that hosted me when I interviewed there. I agree that it seems to defeat the purpose of P/F - not entirely, but why do P/F and then continue with rankings?

Dude Cole, is it weird that I hear Lil Wayne's voice inside my head when I look at your avatar?

He's all "waaaahhhhhhhh"

 

[KUNRD07]

Cornell is located in the Upper East Side, which is the wealthiest part of NYC, so the point about UCLA's location seems moot.

 

[redlight]

Cornell is located in the Upper East Side, which is the wealthiest part of NYC, so the point about UCLA's location seems moot.

except that cornell and columbia share NY presbyterian.

http://manhattantimesnews.com/2011/nyph-ranked-best-hospital-in-ny-metro-area.html

i think it's a fair argument that you'll receive better clinical experience at cornell due to the broader range of diversity in the patient population..

 

[NickNaylor]

Dude Cole, is it weird that I hear Lil Wayne's voice inside my head when I look at your avatar?

He's all "waaaahhhhhhhh"

Exactly what I'm going for.

 

[dbeast]

except that cornell and columbia share NY presbyterian.

http://manhattantimesnews.com/2011/nyph-ranked-best-hospital-in-ny-metro-area.html

i think it's a fair argument that you'll receive better clinical experience at cornell due to the broader range of diversity in the patient population..

Yea that's what I meant too...

PS- dislike at your avatar

 

[DoctwoB]

i think it's a fair argument that you'll receive better clinical experience at cornell due to the broader range of diversity in the patient population..

Disagree. LA is a massive and diverse city as well, and UCLA has Reagen, county, VA, etc.

In fact, you could say that NYC has 8 million people spread over ~8 different med schools. Los angeles has 3 million for 2, making cachment population similar, if not better for UCLA.

 

[drizzt3117]

drizzt,
could you please elaborate on this? i'm facing the same decision as the OP, and the issue of culture in the clinical setting is really important to me! important enough to break my silence on these forums
thanks!

In the clinical years, Cornell is pretty traditional and hierarchial (and in some cases malignant) while UCLA is a bit more laid back.

 

[drizzt3117]

UCLA = super fancy hospital in one of the nicest neighborhoods in all of LA.

Anywhere in NYC has a lot more... action... so to speak.

To be fair, though, UCLA does have some affiliate hospitals in rougher parts of town but most of your training will be in Westwood.

I think that's what drizzt was getting at, unless he means that the faculty at Cornell are way more student-friendly?

That wasn't what I was getting at. Many programs at Cornell are considered pretty malignant. (and this is totally not unusual among Ivy League institutions) This may affect your experience during your clinical years. I've heard discussion about poor relations between medical students and residents (who write evals for the students) etc.

 

[drizzt3117]

except that cornell and columbia share NY presbyterian.

http://manhattantimesnews.com/2011/nyph-ranked-best-hospital-in-ny-metro-area.html

i think it's a fair argument that you'll receive better clinical experience at cornell due to the broader range of diversity in the patient population..

You rotate through many different hospitals at UCLA. Furthermore, just because UCLA med center is located in Westwood doesn't mean all of your patients are from the west side of LA.

BTW, you know that "new york presbyterian hospital" is not just one hospital, right?

 

[mdeast]

except that cornell and columbia share NY presbyterian.

http://manhattantimesnews.com/2011/nyph-ranked-best-hospital-in-ny-metro-area.html

i think it's a fair argument that you'll receive better clinical experience at cornell due to the broader range of diversity in the patient population..

Don't stress the clinical experience too much on the medical school trail. A better notion might not be "what patients does a hospital serve?", but "what role do medical students play in their care?". No matter where you are in the country (city, suburb, etc.) you'll see most of the bread and butter cases of medicine that will prepare you to make a decision as to whether a certain specialty is for you or not. In the majority of cases, you're only spending between 2-8 weeks on each service...you're not going to be a full-fledged doctor by the end of it. The bulk of your clinical training comes in residency, not medical school. That's when you should be more concerned about the clinical experience you're getting and how it matches with your larger career goals. Med school is for exploring and learning the basics for your internship. Find the culture where you think you'll learn these things, have access to the research or mentors you think you want, and the place that balances you social life with your academic life the best.

 

[drizzt3117]

Don't stress the clinical experience too much on the medical school trail. A better notion might not be "what patients does a hospital serve?", but "what role do medical students play in their care?". No matter where you are in the country (city, suburb, etc.) you'll see most of the bread and butter cases of medicine that will prepare you to make a decision as to whether a certain specialty is for you or not. In the majority of cases, you're only spending between 2-8 weeks on each service...you're not going to be a full-fledged doctor by the end of it. The bulk of your clinical training comes in residency, not medical school. That's when you should be more concerned about the clinical experience you're getting and how it matches with your larger career goals. Med school is for exploring and learning the basics for your internship. Find the culture where you think you'll learn these things, have access to the research or mentors you think you want, and the place that balances you social life with your academic life the best.

Patient population does matter to a certain degree (although I agree it won't make any difference in this particular set of schools) A small rural school may give little exposure to certain types of trauma, the management of patients with blood borne diseases like Hepatitis B, C, and HIV, and other issues more commonly found in urban environments. This can be a big deal if you're trying to match into certain specialties at certain programs (EM, Surgery, etc) Some people from here run into this to a certain degree (although it's more of an issue in fellowship than it is for residency)

 

[skyhyp2009]

That wasn't what I was getting at. Many programs at Cornell are considered pretty malignant. (and this is totally not unusual among Ivy League institutions) This may affect your experience during your clinical years. I've heard discussion about poor relations between medical students and residents (who write evals for the students) etc.

eh? so the doctors at ny-presbyterian are hostile to students?

 

[drizzt3117]

eh? so the doctors at ny-presbyterian are hostile to students?

Hostile isn't exactly the right word. I don't think the attendings are necessarily the issue either. It's just not as comfortable and laid back an environment, clinically. This is a cultural thing, and somewhat institution and program dependent, and Cornell certainly isn't the most malignant place out there, but compared to UCLA...

 

[veaselhaufen]

I wish i had more time right now to write a more complete post


I think UCLA medical school is an absolutely fantastic experience. If anyone has any questions, please ask me. One thing that popped out at me as I was scrolling through the thread was the claim that patient diversity is more broad at Cornell. I find that pretty hard to believe. UCLA has the most expansive network of teaching hospitals that I'm aware of, and all but 1 are outside Westwood. Even at Ronald Reagan UCLA medical center (the one in Westwood) the patient population isn't determined by the makeup of the surrounding neighborhood, but rather by patients who are coming a long distance to see specialists. UCLA's organ transplant program may be the largest in the country, which draws people in from all over the world, not just Westwood.

In addition to Ronald Reagan, other affiliated hospitals where 3rd years rotate are :

Harbor-UCLA medical center: In Southbay, Los Angeles, is a county hospital, sees A LOT of trauma, gun shot wounds, etc from South Central. Emergency Medicine is huge here

Olive View UCLA medical center: Outstanding county teaching hospital that always gets top reviews from rotating students. As it is a county hospital, the hospital sees mostly uninsured. Spanish is the primary language spoken here

Santa Monica UCLA medical center: Home to UCLA's orthopedics program, and is more of a regular community hospital. Beautiful location close to the beach

Cedars Sinai- Private hospital in Beverly Hills famous for serving just about ever celebrity in Los Angeles

Kaiser Permanente locations all over the valley- For students interested in experiencing HMO style health care

+ So So So So many more

It's dizzying how many practice environments can be experienced as a 3rd year.

I'm just finishing up 2nd year and I have loved the preclnical years here. Quality of life is very high and our curriculum allows for a lot of free time. We are 4 miles from the beach, and people are able to keep up hobbies outside of medical school. I felt able to manage my outside interests (primarily surfing), a social life, and I feel extremely well prepared for boards, as our curriculum allows for a ton of independent study time. I couldnt ask for anything more

I'm sure Cornell is a great school too, but I know nothing about it. When you make this decision, be very conscious about where you ultimately want to practice. If you want to stay in California for residency, it would make a lot more sense to go to UCLA. If you want NYC, then obviously Cornell would be a better choice. The connections you make, as well as regional bias, tend to make students stay in the area of their medical school for residency. CA to NYC for residency does happen as does NYC to CA, but it isnt super common. like 80 percent of UCLA grads stay in CA

EDIT: I think the University of California budget cuts are something to keep in mind, but the medical school is fairly well sheltered from them as they received a 100 milliondollar donation from David Geffen.

 

[veaselhaufen]

Also, UCLA has PBL too, so this shouldnt be a deciding factor. I think PBL is very well done here, and is generally as useful to me as lecture . Generally schools that have PBL curriculums have less total contact time, which is the biggest determinant in quality of life as a medical student. I don't see why grading schemes should matter, but UCLA is also true P/F all 4 years, with no class ranking as far as I'm aware. DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SCHOOLS GRADING SCHEMES ARE TRIVIAL. Even if a school has grades the first 2 years then they hardly matter because most other schools are Pass/Fail. I have no idea why students get their panties in a bunch about grades. At some point you have to take responsibility and learn because you're going to be counted on to use your knowledge to save people's lives. Residency directors will find a way to evaluate you regardless of how your school grades you. Relax, chill out, and don't drink the kool aid.

 

[redlight]

You rotate through many different hospitals at UCLA. Furthermore, just because UCLA med center is located in Westwood doesn't mean all of your patients are from the west side of LA.

BTW, you know that "new york presbyterian hospital" is not just one hospital, right?

hmm, no i didnt. i knew they had a chain of affiliated hospitals though. or is that the same thing?

Don't stress the clinical experience too much on the medical school trail. A better notion might not be "what patients does a hospital serve?", but "what role do medical students play in their care?". No matter where you are in the country (city, suburb, etc.) you'll see most of the bread and butter cases of medicine that will prepare you to make a decision as to whether a certain specialty is for you or not. In the majority of cases, you're only spending between 2-8 weeks on each service...you're not going to be a full-fledged doctor by the end of it. The bulk of your clinical training comes in residency, not medical school. That's when you should be more concerned about the clinical experience you're getting and how it matches with your larger career goals. Med school is for exploring and learning the basics for your internship. Find the culture where you think you'll learn these things, have access to the research or mentors you think you want, and the place that balances you social life with your academic life the best.

thanks! that puts things into proper perspective.

Yea that's what I meant too...

PS- dislike at your avatar

yeah i'm too lazy to edit it. ill look for a better one. im not even sure how im allowed to have a picture that big! i thought that was reserved for members who have donated.

Disagree. LA is a massive and diverse city as well, and UCLA has Reagen, county, VA, etc.

In fact, you could say that NYC has 8 million people spread over ~8 different med schools. Los angeles has 3 million for 2, making cachment population similar, if not better for UCLA.

i see your point but i like being stubborn.
nyc is still probably more diverse than LA, and you can't assume an even 8-way (are there really 8 MD schools in nyc? wow!) or 2-way split. i'm sure cornell/columbia get a dis-proportionate amount of those 8 million people, especially if it is considered the best hospital in the metro area.

but yeah i mean i get your point, i guess the difference in hospital culture is more important than the (negligible) difference in patient diversity when comparing these two schools.

 

[drizzt3117]

hmm, no i didnt. i knew they had a chain of affiliated hospitals though. or is that the same thing?

Nyp is more than one Hosp, it's the merger of new york hospital, and presbyterian Hosp. Cornell and Columbia each have their own hospital.

i see your point but i like being stubborn.
nyc is still probably more diverse than LA, and you can't assume an even 8-way (are there really 8 MD schools in nyc? wow!) or 2-way split. i'm sure cornell/columbia get a dis-proportionate amount of those 8 million people, especially if it is considered the best hospital in the metro area.

but yeah i mean i get your point, i guess the difference in hospital culture is
more important than the (negligible) difference in patient diversity when
comparing these two schools.

Well, UCLA doesn't have LAC bc that's SCs teaching Hosp, but they do have harbor, and other very urban hospitals. It's a very different environment in general though.

 

[InsultedViper]

Also, UCLA has PBL too, so this shouldnt be a deciding factor. I think PBL is very well done here, and is generally as useful to me as lecture . Generally schools that have PBL curriculums have less total contact time, which is the biggest determinant in quality of life as a medical student. I don't see why grading schemes should matter, but UCLA is also true P/F all 4 years, with no class ranking as far as I'm aware. DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SCHOOLS GRADING SCHEMES ARE TRIVIAL. Even if a school has grades the first 2 years then they hardly matter because most other schools are Pass/Fail. I have no idea why students get their panties in a bunch about grades. At some point you have to take responsibility and learn because you're going to be counted on to use your knowledge to save people's lives. Residency directors will find a way to evaluate you regardless of how your school grades you. Relax, chill out, and don't drink the kool aid.

What is "contact time"?